Thai Logic Has Got Me Again.........sigh!

[lucjoker]

I thought I was so clever......need to provide a map to my home for my request for extension of temporary stay.

Got all the other arsenal of paperwork ready......so I spent today using my navigational and slightly artistic skills to draw a freehand map so the immigration people can find my home. (Note: I live out in the sticks and no google map even knows where I am).

I even used Thai writing, not that I can read it yet.....but the cruncher was.....a gate.

To find my place one needs to turn left off a paved road onto a dirt road which is not very easy to see (especially for someone who has never been there before) lots of trees and bush.

About 100 metres before our dirt road, there is a gate on the opposite side of the road, it stands out all by itself.....easy to see. So I show this gate on my map, indicating that 100 metres later is the turnoff for the dirt road.

Proud as punch, when my wife comes home I show her the results of my blood sweat and tears......"what's this?"

"It's that gate on the other side of the road just before we turn into the dirt road."

"But there is no gate on our road"

"I know...it's on the other side of the road before our road"

"Too confusing"

"Why"

"You show gate on road and that is not our road"

"No.....I have shown that it is on the opposite side of the road and is 100 metres before our road"

"Thai people not understand....you make too confusing"

"<deleted>!"......it is a stand alone gate that opens for a large property where the residence is some 300 metres from the road.

So I reach for another beer.

Sigh!

Many years ago I knew a German guy who was married to a Thai lady he decided to take her home so she could see her family who lived in the back of beyond after many hours of driving from Phuket they got near her house.

When they got back to Phuket I saw him in the bar I asked him how they got on a did he meet the family he told me when they got there she couldn't remember how to get to the house so they came back.

This was before everybody had a mobile phone.

They moved to Germany

I had the same,my wife was born in Buri Ram,ather 1 year the family moved to pattaya,

she was never back there again .Now 28 years later we were in Korat and she saw a road sign

to Buri Ram.She asked me if we could go visit the grand mother in Biri Ram ,so ok ,next day we took off.

Once in Buri Ram city she did remember the name of the little village ,it was about 100 km more north over a verry bad road !

Hours later we come in that village but she couldn't remember where the grandmother lived ,a said cant you ask arround? Tel your mother

in Pattaya and ask her ? No,no money in telephone and people dont know me . Hm??????/ i asked "what now?" she:"lets go home"

I refused and drove arround in every street of this little village ,asking for the grandmother ,my wife was verry embarrest but i finaly found the house

but nobody home ,they were all of to a wedding and wouldn't be back that day.

So.....back home with a angry lady ,not understanding my behavour?

[soi41]

I think I have posted a comment along these lines before but here it goes again: If you want a life companion who you can to talk to at your level, whom you can trust to understand the abstract concepts at a level higher than that of an avarage European kindergarten kid, who knows at least a little about the subjects not related to money, sex, kids, rice and Buddha, who has read at least 10 books and has at least heard about the theory of relativity, how to find Congo on the map or who Chopin was - DON'T MARRY A THAI VILLAGE GIRL!!! They do have many talents but brains and logic and basic education aren't amongst them

What a load of crap! I married a Thai village girl 10 years ago. For nine of those years, she has been running 2 very succesfull shops, at the same she has got herself a lawdegree. (just for the hell of it). Reads an average of 2 books a week, real books like heavy classics! Got a more flexible intellect than most farangs I know.

So please keep your stereotyping to yourself!!

[Ace of Pop]

I think I have posted a comment along these lines before but here it goes again: If you want a life companion who you can to talk to at your level, whom you can trust to understand the abstract concepts at a level higher than that of an avarage European kindergarten kid, who knows at least a little about the subjects not related to money, sex, kids, rice and Buddha, who has read at least 10 books and has at least heard about the theory of relativity, how to find Congo on the map or who Chopin was - DON'T MARRY A THAI VILLAGE GIRL!!! They do have many talents but brains and logic and basic education aren't amongst them

What a load of crap! I married a Thai village girl 10 years ago. For nine of those years, she has been running 2 very succesfull shops, at the same she has got herself a lawdegree. (just for the hell of it). Reads an average of 2 books a week, real books like heavy classics! Got a more flexible intellect than most farangs I know.

So please keep your stereotyping to yourself!!

Miracles can happen then.

[candypants]

I think I have posted a comment along these lines before but here it goes again: If you want a life companion who you can to talk to at your level, whom you can trust to understand the abstract concepts at a level higher than that of an avarage European kindergarten kid, who knows at least a little about the subjects not related to money, sex, kids, rice and Buddha, who has read at least 10 books and has at least heard about the theory of relativity, how to find Congo on the map or who Chopin was - DON'T MARRY A THAI VILLAGE GIRL!!! They do have many talents but brains and logic and basic education aren't amongst them

simple innit?

why do so few get it?

[Suradit69]

I find it amusing that they even asked you to draw a map...very, very few Thais could complete that task. Thais are for the most part useless with maps...it's just not a concept they can get their heads around. A friend of mine wrote a whole PhD dissertation (which he later published as a book) on how the very concept of maps had to be introduced to Thais by foreigners (and it still hasn't caught on/sunk in)...and he's Thai, haha! Though he was educated overseas (which is ALWAYS the key to Thais thinking critically/seeing the big picture!).

"...very, very few Thais could complete that task."

Complete nonsense. Every time we buy something that needs to be delivered, we are asked for a map showing where the delivery is to take place. I've always had a Thai friend draw the map so that the street names and landmarks are labeled in Thai. The Thai sales person has double-checked it to make sure its understandable and some Thai delivery person has used it to complete the delivery without problem.

Please give us the title of this book and the publisher. If your friend defended this "dissertation" making a ridiculous generalization claiming that 69 million people are supposedly genetically predisposed to be unable to "get their heads around" something, the degree must have been awarded by a mail order degree mill.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Suradit69

[soi41]

@ace of pop. And she would be smart enough, not to post her answer on an internetforum within the quoted post!

[drdoom6996]

Try Google Earth for the map. Try a visa service. More expensive than doing it yourself. But they know exactly what you need.

[rubberduck]

Can understand this very well, too much logic is confusing for them, keep it simple ! 'The gate opposite the road' is additional information and it's just this what they can't proceed in their brain. Simple test: go to McDonalds, order French fries, then add: 'with salt and mayonaise, please', they will remember the mayonaise. When saying 'with mayonaise and salt please' they remember the salt. To remember the 2 extras it need even more brain processing which they are not used to, call it brain-lazy. Like the processor speed of a computer, old models got totally useless cuz we want it fast now. Logic is also culture-related like humour. Tell me an American joke and my reaction might be: 'yes what's funny?'

Edited May 1, 2013 by rubberduck

[Minnehaha]

Me and the mrs bought a bed in SB furniture and when asked to draw a map, she drew what could be considered the most primitive map ever with very little details on.

I told her they would never understand and just put down her number to call as it would be easier. Be fair, the boys who delivered the bed found the house and didn't need to call once.

Maybe it's easier to not over complicate things and you will be surprised.

Delivery guys like SB furniture or IKEA do this kind of thing of a living. So they get it.

My experience is even educated Thais are not familiar with maps or a 2 dimensional representation of a location. And they are hopeless giving directions to things. They can give landmarks, but have no sense of distance, etc.

Just go up on the expressways and see the creative signage. The only way to navigate the Bkk expressways is to look for the little signs on the left just before an exit and read the Thai script. That can give useful info.

Another interesting thing is naming of intersections. To me this is useless as it gives no indication which of the 4 roads you are on. Klong Ton is a district, name of an intersection of Soi 71 and Petchaburi, name of a market, and canal that ends. Another favorite is Suthisarn. This intersection name is actually at Vibawadi Rangsit and Suthisarn road.

The one amazing thing is numbering sois. This appears genius, given the rest of the mess.

[Suradit69]

I think I have posted a comment along these lines before but here it goes again: If you want a life companion who you can to talk to at your level, whom you can trust to understand the abstract concepts at a level higher than that of an avarage European kindergarten kid, who knows at least a little about the subjects not related to money, sex, kids, rice and Buddha, who has read at least 10 books and has at least heard about the theory of relativity, how to find Congo on the map or who Chopin was - DON'T MARRY A THAI VILLAGE GIRL!!! They do have many talents but brains and logic and basic education aren't amongst them

"...but brains and logic and basic education aren't amongst them"

And yet repeatedly we hear stories of how the intellectually superior Europeans are taken to the cleaners by these naïve, illogical life companions. I guess being able to find Congo, whether the Brazzaville or Kinshasa version or knowing who Chopin was, have little practical application for most Thais and I doubt "an avarage [sic] European kindergarten kid" or even his/her elder siblings would do much better.

If you want to see really pathetic adults on parade, watch The Weakest Link on BBC Entertainment.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Suradit69

[StreetCowboy]

I can understand this very well, too much logic is confusing for them, keep it simple !

Logic is very much culture-related, like humour. If you tell me an American joke, my reaction will probably be: 'yes and what's funny about it ?'

clip deleted)

Manners are culturally relative as well. I'd have laughed politely.

Bad Manners are English. Or at least Buster Bloodvessel is.

(apologies for the digression, but I wanted to post the link....)

SC

Edited May 1, 2013 by StreetCowboy

[maybefitz]

You could also post a house number and/or name tag at the entrance of your acces way....

Sorry, even the Thais don't get the hang of house and Soi numbers. I once spent an hour looking for a house that wasn't even on the

Soi, it actually backed on to it and the entrance was on the main road. Also, house numbers in 'the sticks' don't follow the sequence on the

road - it's when the house was built !! Our house is number 19 - one of the first families in the village, some 70 years ago. A recent house my wife

built for a UK friend is numbered 252, so that's the number of houses in the village. Only the post-lady knows the house numbers, lol.

[Rockhopper]

When at University Payap aa-jaan (Thai) said Thai people cannot read maps. The first thing they will do is turn it upside-down. True to the fact, when I showed a map to a Thai and asked where I was he turned the map upside-down. And all the writing on the map was in Thai!

[JaiLai]

I can understand this very well, too much logic is confusing for them, keep it simple !

Logic is very much culture-related, like humour. If you tell me an American joke, my reaction will probably be: 'yes and what's funny about it ?'

She speaks good english for a Thai!

[Dancealot]

You could also post a house number and/or name tag at the entrance of your acces way....

Sorry, even the Thais don't get the hang of house and Soi numbers. I once spent an hour looking for a house that wasn't even on the

Soi, it actually backed on to it and the entrance was on the main road. Also, house numbers in 'the sticks' don't follow the sequence on the

road - it's when the house was built !! Our house is number 19 - one of the first families in the village, some 70 years ago. A recent house my wife

built for a UK friend is numbered 252, so that's the number of houses in the village. Only the post-lady knows the house numbers, lol.

Hahaha. Agreed!

But what stops a farang from trying!? I put a house number and street number in front of the entrance to the farm house last year.

The family took it out!

Why? Because the electricity bill never arrived for 2 months.. Go figure..

What happened was the usual motorbike electricity bill guy was out of town and his replacement failed to comprehend my western post!

[candypants]

I can understand this very well, too much logic is confusing for them, keep it simple ! 'The gate opposite the road' is additional information and it's just this what they can't proceed in their brain.

Simple test: go to McDonalds, order French fries, then add the information: 'with salt and mayonaise, please', they will only remember the last word: mayonaise. When you say 'with mayonaise and salt please' they will only remember the salt. To remember the extras you want it need extra brain processing, which they are not used to. When you use you fingers, one finger up for the mayonaise and one for the salt then they can remember both. Call it brain-lazy, thanks to a rotten educational system for generations ?

Compare it with processor speed in a computer ! All the old models got totally useless cuz we want it fast now.

Logic is also very much culture-related, like humour. Tell me an American joke and my reaction might be: 'yes and what's funny about it?'

do you actually believe the crap you write?

Edited May 1, 2013 by candypants

[Noji]

I thought I was being pretty clever by including maps and satellite images from Google maps with the house location clearly marked and all roads visible and numbered.

They looked at them, unimpressed and told me it had to be hand-drawn.

I whipped off a 5 second map showing the main road, the closest town and an X for the house - Perfect!

[rijb]

Just draw a simple map on the back of an envelope. What you put in the envelope is up to you...

[rubberduck]

do you actually believe the crap you write?

let me guess, you're an american believe what you want to believe or not, this is just how the thai brain works. not so hard to understand if you communicated with them for 18 years.

sleep well.

[doontp]

I thought I was so clever......need to provide a map to my home for my request for extension of temporary stay.

Got all the other arsenal of paperwork ready......so I spent today using my navigational and slightly artistic skills to draw a freehand map so the immigration people can find my home. (Note: I live out in the sticks and no google map even knows where I am).

I even used Thai writing, not that I can read it yet.....but the cruncher was.....a gate.

To find my place one needs to turn left off a paved road onto a dirt road which is not very easy to see (especially for someone who has never been there before) lots of trees and bush.

About 100 metres before our dirt road, there is a gate on the opposite side of the road, it stands out all by itself.....easy to see. So I show this gate on my map, indicating that 100 metres later is the turnoff for the dirt road.

Proud as punch, when my wife comes home I show her the results of my blood sweat and tears......"what's this?"

"It's that gate on the other side of the road just before we turn into the dirt road."

"But there is no gate on our road"

"I know...it's on the other side of the road before our road"

"Too confusing"

"Why"

"You show gate on road and that is not our road"

"No.....I have shown that it is on the opposite side of the road and is 100 metres before our road"

"Thai people not understand....you make too confusing"

"<deleted>!"......it is a stand alone gate that opens for a large property where the residence is some 300 metres from the road.

So I reach for another beer.

Sigh!

Many years ago I knew a German guy who was married to a Thai lady he decided to take her home so she could see her family who lived in the back of beyond after many hours of driving from Phuket they got near her house.

When they got back to Phuket I saw him in the bar I asked him how they got on a did he meet the family he told me when they got there she couldn't remember how to get to the house so they came back.

This was before everybody had a mobile phone.

They moved to Germany

LOL....the same thing almost happened to me with my misses and her sister. We were in the area and they couldn't remember how to get to their parents' house. Luckily they spotted their dad coming towards us on his motorcycle and we followed him home.

[candypants]

do you actually believe the crap you write?

let me guess, you're an american believe what you want to believe or not, this is just how the thai brain works. not so hard to understand if you communicated with them for 18 years.

sleep well.

american? on the strength of what?

tell me more about communicating with 'them' and the intricacies of their brains.

this should be quite interesting

do you communicate with "them" in their funny little language?

[canuckamuck]

I thought I was being pretty clever by including maps and satellite images from Google maps with the house location clearly marked and all roads visible and numbered.

They looked at them, unimpressed and told me it had to be hand-drawn.

I whipped off a 5 second map showing the main road, the closest town and an X for the house - Perfect!

My experience exactly.

[xen]

In my work i am often working with plans and maps . If i want to explain something to a co-worker or somebody else i will naturally draw a map or sketch to get the idea across . I am extremely right brained and i find it natural to communicate with drawings and sketches but to my left brained associates they always laugh and gig me about my drawings and maps and would rather it communicated in a (logical) bullet form description. What i am getting at is that people think in their own natural way and perhaps many Thais are not able to relate to complicated ,visual representations of a land area because they have never thought of it that way before.

But it is true they do not relate to distance at all well . There is Thai Time and there is Thai Distance where one km is not much shorter than 25 km .

Edited May 1, 2013 by xen

[StreetCowboy]

I thought I was so clever......need to provide a map to my home for my request for extension of temporary stay.

Got all the other arsenal of paperwork ready......so I spent today using my navigational and slightly artistic skills to draw a freehand map so the immigration people can find my home. (Note: I live out in the sticks and no google map even knows where I am).

I even used Thai writing, not that I can read it yet.....but the cruncher was.....a gate.

To find my place one needs to turn left off a paved road onto a dirt road which is not very easy to see (especially for someone who has never been there before) lots of trees and bush.

About 100 metres before our dirt road, there is a gate on the opposite side of the road, it stands out all by itself.....easy to see. So I show this gate on my map, indicating that 100 metres later is the turnoff for the dirt road.

Proud as punch, when my wife comes home I show her the results of my blood sweat and tears......"what's this?"

"It's that gate on the other side of the road just before we turn into the dirt road."

"But there is no gate on our road"

"I know...it's on the other side of the road before our road"

"Too confusing"

"Why"

"You show gate on road and that is not our road"

"No.....I have shown that it is on the opposite side of the road and is 100 metres before our road"

"Thai people not understand....you make too confusing"

"<deleted>!"......it is a stand alone gate that opens for a large property where the residence is some 300 metres from the road.

So I reach for another beer.

Sigh!

Many years ago I knew a German guy who was married to a Thai lady he decided to take her home so she could see her family who lived in the back of beyond after many hours of driving from Phuket they got near her house.

When they got back to Phuket I saw him in the bar I asked him how they got on a did he meet the family he told me when they got there she couldn't remember how to get to the house so they came back.

This was before everybody had a mobile phone.

They moved to Germany

LOL....the same thing almost happened to me with my misses and her sister. We were in the area and they couldn't remember how to get to their parents' house. Luckily they spotted their dad coming towards us on his motorcycle and we followed him home.

It's fortuitous that he was going home. That could have ended very badly indeed...

[Billmont]

My friend (Farang) had visited my house on two previous occasions. On his next visit a few months later he again asked for directions. I gave the same as before, 400 metres past the PT Petrol Station there is a large house painted yellow, turn left at the house and we are 2km down the road. On the day of his visit he called me to say he had just turned into our road and would be with me in a few minutes. 20 minutes later he called and said he must be lost. How could he drive past my house as it is the only Farang house on the road and we have obvious stainless gates. Anyway I said where are you? Did you turn in past the yellow house, yes he said we drove past the PTT Petrol Station and turned in by the Pink House. No, I said PT not PTT and Yellow not Pink. He was about 15km away. So not only Thais and maps, it happens to the best of us.

[Just1Voice]

The first time I knew I was going to need a nap was about 4-1/2 years ago. My Thai wife told me that Immigration would probably want a map to our house, which is in a small moo baan about 18k from Mueang Chiang Mai. Ok, I like to play with MS Publisher, so first I pulled up and printed out a map of Chiang Mai, then used Publisher to make my own. All roads are clearly numbered, with intersections named in both English and Thai. Landmarks, such as Payap University, are noted in both languages. Directional Arrows in black to show "straight" - "Right turn" - Left turn". When I added in the moo baan, I colored our house black, with the address beneath it.

When we went to Immigration, the woman there picked up the map looked at it and then asked my wife who did it. She told her that I had. The woman smiled, nodded her had and told me: "Very Good! Best I have ever seen." We've been using that same one ever since, and not once has anyone NOT been able to understand it, and more than one delivery person has told my wife that without it, they would have had trouble finding our place. So I don't buy the line that Thai can't read maps. They can, IF you keep them simple, and do in both languages. Mine is proof of that.

[Iamemjay]

Well this year I went along as usual with my Google map clearly showing out house and how to get there.

It was rejected! They would only accept a HAND DRAWN ONE!! Go figure!

[spectrumisgreen]

I thought I was so clever......need to provide a map to my home for my request for extension of temporary stay.

Got all the other arsenal of paperwork ready......so I spent today using my navigational and slightly artistic skills to draw a freehand map so the immigration people can find my home. (Note: I live out in the sticks and no google map even knows where I am).

I even used Thai writing, not that I can read it yet.....but the cruncher was.....a gate.

To find my place one needs to turn left off a paved road onto a dirt road which is not very easy to see (especially for someone who has never been there before) lots of trees and bush.

About 100 metres before our dirt road, there is a gate on the opposite side of the road, it stands out all by itself.....easy to see. So I show this gate on my map, indicating that 100 metres later is the turnoff for the dirt road.

Proud as punch, when my wife comes home I show her the results of my blood sweat and tears......"what's this?"

"It's that gate on the other side of the road just before we turn into the dirt road."

"But there is no gate on our road"

"I know...it's on the other side of the road before our road"

"Too confusing"

"Why"

"You show gate on road and that is not our road"

"No.....I have shown that it is on the opposite side of the road and is 100 metres before our road"

"Thai people not understand....you make too confusing"

"<deleted>!"......it is a stand alone gate that opens for a large property where the residence is some 300 metres from the road.

So I reach for another beer.

Sigh!

Many years ago I knew a German guy who was married to a Thai lady he decided to take her home so she could see her family who lived in the back of beyond after many hours of driving from Phuket they got near her house.

When they got back to Phuket I saw him in the bar I asked him how they got on a did he meet the family he told me when they got there she couldn't remember how to get to the house so they came back.

This was before everybody had a mobile phone.

They moved to Germany

Seems many on this site got just as confused as your wife, spouting phrases like 'over complicating' etc.. maybe not surprising the way too many regularly miss each other's points on these forums and get ignorantly self-righteous at the drop of a hat!!.. get a grip fellers and use your loafs!!.. a map's a map and doesn't just show only the exact place you are going, but how to get there! I've experienced plenty of Thai 'logic' here myself, and generally very much like the people but do appreciate that thinking outside the box often ain't a strong point.. nor, apparently, even finding the box going by the 'weird concepts' applied in, say, a (considered) 'farang' map which likely not only marks the box's spot with an 'X' but shows through which door the box lies and what the box is actually next to!! Sure, in the future let your wife do the ordinance if it saves time and gets the job done quicker, but let's not lose sight of how things might well better be done with a bit of 'overview' applied.. ps: don't think the sun helps, for those brought up here.. what's your excuse, chaps?

[vijer]

Maybe it's got more to do with your wife than all thai people as you/she assumes?

Nope, it has to do with Thainess.

I received an email with the addresses for two schools. The wife and I head out to go to the furthest school first. Before this we discussed where the two schools were, the nearest one is on soi 107.

This is the conversation as we are driving.

Wife - That is soi 107 there.

Me - Oh that is close to our house.

Wife - Why you want to go 107?

Me - I don't, I said it is near our house.

Wife - That will take wrong direction.

Me - I know, I was just saying the other school is close to the house.

Wife - some more nonsense

Me - start drawing a map for her

Wife - still confused

Me - explain it 5 different ways

Wife - Oh I think you go that way to get to another school

Me - seriously annoyed by now

I have these same goofy conversations with many Thai's. I stopped asking my wife to ask Thai's where something is, instead of a simple "it is in isle three" or even "F if I know", there is always a 10 minute conversation, at the end of which my wife still doesn't know where the item is.

[Rsquared]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I also believe in the K.I.S.S. syndrome, keep it simple stupid......and this is what I had in mind with my masterpiece.

Sorry if I am breaking the rules by having Thai writing on the map, but I figured that it would be impressive to the immigration people.

Just thought I would show how I used "The Gate" as an easy landmark.

Also just to reiterate.....you cannot find my place on google maps......they don't consider us important enough.

Cheers.