Uk; Ilr Or Flr

[tribalfusion001]

It's been a while since I posted on here, but I'm trying to work ILR or FLR.

Our circumstances are that we are both employed since arriving in the UK in May 2013, my job started in July and my wifes was in June, I work 29 hours per week and my wife 32 hours per week, we both earn £11500 per annum and we live at my parents house.

We have a joint bank account, but no bills or anything else in joint names, how are we supposed to show in May 2014 that we have a life in the UK when applying for the ILR visa? Our incomes are low, too low to rent, my wife has not started studying for LITUK yet, not sure if she wants too either.

To be honest I don't think that a settlemnet visa was a very good idea one year on, I actually enjoyed my life in Thailand more, not sure about my wife though!

What do you think our chances are, positive and non postive comments welcome...

[7by7]

I am assuming from what you say that your wife comes under the old rules, not the new ones which came into effect for those who made their initial visa application on or after 9th July 2012.

From what you say, I can see no reason why she should not apply for ILR when she is time qualified; i.e. after 24 months in the UK.

Why waste the fee paying for FLR? Unless she delayed coming to the UK for more than three months after receiving her initial visa so it expires before she meets the 24 months requirement for ILR.

Living with your parents; not a problem.

Low incomes; not a problem as long as you can support and accommodate yourselves without recourse to public funds. Which you can presumably do as you live with your parents.

See Completing application form SET(M) and the links from there for what is required. Section 11 of the form itself gives examples of suitable documents to show you have been living together.

One thing, though, the language requirement changes for all ILR applications made on or after 28th October 2013.

From that date she will need to have passed the LitUK test and achieved at least B1 of the CEFR, or the equivalent, in English speaking and listening; see here.

Edited May 1, 2013 by 7by7

[tribalfusion001]

I don't think she will pass LITUK, last night she stated she didn't want to take it, so that's why I was enquiring about FLR. B1 CEFR should be a problem.

Yes it's under the old rules.

[7by7]

The language requirement for FLR is the same as that for her original visa, A1; but check the certificate.

Some, depending on the test provider, have an expiry date, and if hers does and it has expired it may not be accepted for FLR so she may need to take the A1 test again. See this post.

The current cost of an FLR application is £578 by post or £953 in person. Do you really want to keep paying this every two years? Remembering that it will be increased every year.

Presently there is no limit on the number of times someone can apply for FLR; but rumours have been floating around for some time that the government intend to change this. Basically to stop people repeatedly applying for FLR instead of meeting the requirements for and then obtaining ILR.

Also, to apply for citizenship she needs to have ILR.

Up to you, but better, I think, to get her onto an English course ASAP so she can bring her English up to standard for the LitUK test. The standard is not that high, ESOL entry level 3, so she may already be near to it. Particularly as you say B1 shouldn't be a problem.

She has until May next year, so should easily be able to do it in time.

[RAZZELL]

Ahh..Tribal Fusion

Get your wife to get her LITUK Test..the new one is hard but nothing in life is easy.

When your wife receives ILR...then you can drift back and forth to LOS to your hearts content.

RAZZ

Edited May 1, 2013 by RAZZELL

[tribalfusion001]

Just to clarify, she is adamant about not doing LITUK and only wants to apply for FLR in May 2014, she doesn't want to study and wants to work to earn money, I've made her aware of the restrictions of not obtaining ILR.

Our intention is to apply for FLR in person and if obtained to go back to Thailand for maybe 6 to 12 months to live and work, then return to the UK for the remainder of the visa to live and work in the UK, head back to Thailand once the FLR expires. I know that will scupper any future FLR visas.

[wooloomooloo]

What was the point of the thread then?

[tribalfusion001]

I wasn't sure of what was needed and the differences between ILR and FLR.

[wooloomooloo]

I think you know there's no difference. Up for an argument?

[tribalfusion001]

There is a difference. Nope, better things to do!

[7by7]

Our intention is to apply for FLR in person and if obtained to go back to Thailand for maybe 6 to 12 months to live and work, then return to the UK for the remainder of the visa to live and work in the UK, head back to Thailand once the FLR expires. I know that will scupper any future FLR visas.

That's completely different to what you said in your OP!

If all you wanted was the know the difference between FLR and ILR then that is what you should have asked!

Thanks for wasting my time.

[tribalfusion001]

7by7, yes, maybe that should have been my question, thanks for your info, it has clarified the type of visas. I might book her in for a LITUK test in a couple of weeks and see how she scores, I would prefer if she passes and applies for ILR.

[wooloomooloo]

If your wife has put in the revision, tribal, then there's no reason why she shouldn't pass LitUK.

As 7by7 has stated, the speed of changes to the rules now means that there's no guarantee any new rules will not adversely affect your wife's current visa status.

Far more sensible to expedite your wife's status to ILR and citizenship at the earliest opportunity.

[tribalfusion001]

In one year she has done very little studying, I've just bought a LITUK book in Thai, it maybe a little out of date, but it gives her something to read and practise with. Also once a month starting in a couple of weeks time, she will be taking the LITUK test, there is a test centre 8 miles up the road, it will get her use to the test and may even pass by guessing most of it ;-)

Edited May 2, 2013 by tribalfusion001

[7by7]

The LitUK test is not just a test of life in the UK; it is a test of life and language in the UK!

You are not the only person to have purchased this Thai book, but I fail to see how practicing with a book written in Thai is going to help her pass an exam held in English!

Better for her to use the official book, with your help when needed; or if her English isn't good enough then enrol her on an English course to bring it up to the required standard so that she can understand the revision materials and the test itself.

Attempting to learn the questions parrot fashion will not work; unless she has a prodigious memory.

Remember, if you do return to Thailand to live:

• FLR, can't enter the UK once it has expired without obtaining a new visa.
• ILR, if she spends a continuous period of 2 years or more outside the UK it will lapse. Furthermore, if an IO at a UK port of entry sees that she is living outside the UK and using ILR just for a visits, it will be cancelled; though she will be allowed in as a visitor on that occasion.
• Naturalisation. British citizens can spend as long as they like out of the UK and always be allowed back in whenever, and for as long, as they wish.

My advice is that she obtain ILR and then citizenship; which, based on what you said in your OP and allowing for application processing times, she should have done sometime in the second half of 2015.

[tribalfusion001]

Thanks for your info 7by7. The problem is mainly me, well, it is me, I would like to spend some time living and working in Thailand again, I don't fancy staying here for another two years with only occasional visits to Thailand, the settlement visa was for wifes benefit to live and work in the UK, but not forever.

I would prefer to obtain the ILR visa and at least we could live in Thailand for a year and then come back to the UK for a year to live and work, and so on, 50/50 UK and Thailand. Is ILR a 10 year visa?

[7by7]

ILR stands for Indefinite Leave to Remain; so it has no expiry date.

But, as I said above, it will lapse if the holder spends a continuous period of 2 or more years outside the UK.

I'm not sure how your plan of alternating 1 year in Thailand, 1 year in the UK will be viewed by UK immigration.

She may be OK; but she may also be viewed as a non UK resident using her ILR just for visits

In which case immigration at her port of entry will cancel it and although she will be allowed in as a visitor on that occasion she would be subject to all the usual visitor rules.

That is, no work, no public funds, and a maximum stay of 6 months.

She would also, of course, then need to obtain the appropriate visa to enter the UK in future.

Better, I think, to obtain her ILR and then hang on for an extra year so that she can also be naturalised as British.

Then she can, as I said, come and go to and from the UK as often and for as long as she wishes; the same as any other British citizen.

Both the UK and Thailand allow dual nationality, so becoming British wont effect her rights as a Thai citizen in any way.

But I'm just explaining the options to you; it's up to the two of you to decide.

[RAZZELL]

I'm sure if you sit down and explain to your wife the financial and other implications of FLR vs ILR she might change her mind.

Also, remember the LITUK Test has recently changed and is quite a bit different from the old version.

I'd suggest getting all three books.

http://www.tsoshop.co.uk/bookstore.asp?FO=1240167&trackid=003927

http://www.tso.co.uk/contact-us/dedicated-order-lines

My wife took the old Test without really revising, just looked at online samples on her iphone. FAILED.

For the new one she spent 4 days making notes, revising, learning. PASSED. It's not easy but is certainly doable.

RAZZ

Edited May 4, 2013 by RAZZELL

[tribalfusion001]

Thanks for your input guys, we will try the Thai version of LITUK first of all and also buy the official updated books from HMSO. It's carrot and stick, she has to study to get the visa she wants or it's a visa the same as she already has, I can only advise, I don't want to be an ogre and bossing someone around!

[tribalfusion001]

We bought all 3 official LITUK study books and also got the official iPhone app. I wanted to see how my wife would find the test, we did mock tests on the pc and I booked a test for last Friday, 14/06/2013, I waned to see how she would find the test and also to see what level she is at. The test result did not give a score, but simply said that she did not achieve the pass the test, but there were 22 points of revision on the result paper, so I assume that she got a score of 2/24 and a pass is 18/24.

She has found the LITUK books very hard to understand, the language is at a level that is too high for her, I don't think it will be possible for her to pass LITUK by May 2014 or even by the expiry date of August 2014, FLR seems to be the only realistic option. The Trinity GESE Grade 2 (A1 CEFR) that she passed in January 2012 has no expiry date, but I will have to check if this certificate is still accepted or not on the UKBA website.

Further studies like a ESOL course are going to be problematic with her shift rotas, she has no set days off and works 5 days a week, she starts work between 8am and 9am and finishes between 5pm and 6pm, most weekends she is working. I did a TESOL course in Bangkok in December 2010 and I have taught English in Bangkok, so I am teaching ESL level 2/3 to my wife, I'll review the progress in 6 months, but I think she will need another 18 months to understand the LITUK book and then answer the questions.

[RAZZELL]

Appreciate the update.

But it will mean a great deal (both financially and for her/your long-term future together) when she passes.

I would say read through the books with her, explain anything she doesn't understand and help her make notes in English/Thai. A lot of the new Test is really just remembering key dates, facts and figures and just applying them to the questions.

Good luck with her studies!

RAZZ

PS - I doubt if you only got 2 right. She could probably get more by just guessing every question

Edited June 19, 2013 by RAZZELL

[tribalfusion001]

She was making notes in Thai in regards to words that she didn't know, I think sentence structure and meaning is what is lacking at the moment. I think it will be best to improve her knowledge over the next few months and then see where we are. I've done the mock test and scored 90% or more in every one, but I like history and politics, if I can bring her up to the level, then explaining the book to her and important dates and figures in British history will not be a problem.

I don't know why the test centre don't give % of the result, it would be more helpful, so I know how many she got right, but she did say it was hard for her and she didn't think that she many correct.

There is enough time left to improve and it she cannot pass the test, there is always FLR to fall back on.

[Waterloo]

Just to add another carrot to your deliberation there is the little matter of a British passport if she is succesful.

My wife should have her first British passport before the end of the year and I look forward to her no longer being treated differently to me and our children when we travel abroad.

It's got to be worth having even if you both live in Thailand.

[tribalfusion001]

It's now Monday 9th September and no progress has been made, in fact LITUK learning has merely disappeared and has been forgotten! She will now apply for FLR in the 2nd week of May 2014, although that will require me to be present in the UK, that is 50/50 at the moment if I will be.

The carrot and stick of a British passport only works if the learner is prepared to learn, unfortunately in this case, the learner does not want to learn and teacher has better things to do in life than to be bored and cold!

[bobrussell]

Very frustrating!

Would the threat of having to stay in Thailand put her under pressure to put in some work? I am a great fan of the ESOL Skills for life courses but my wife was very keen to learn!

Perhaps the promise of a holiday to Spain or Greece may act as a further carrot. The additional costs by going down the FLR route would easily cover an all inclusive week or two away!

I am deeply suspicious that immigration rules are going to get more and more expensive and onerous as the years go by. Thankfully my wife has completed the whole process and has 'christened' her British passport with a trip to Switzerland. I had a moments fun telling her she did not need to pack her Thai passport!

[7by7]

You need to be firm with her; tell her that if she doesn't pass the test, and achieve at least B1 in speaking and writing too, then she will never be allowed to remain in the UK indefinitely and never get a British passport.

I know that at present people can apply for FLR again and again, but at a current cost of at least £578, and that going up each year, it is an expensive thing to have to do every two years. Maybe tell her that she'll have to pay for the next one!

Remember, too, that once her A1 certificate expires, she'll have to take that test again to apply for FLR.

Also, as Bob says, both the last and this government have tightened up on family migration ('cos it's a soft target; but that's another subject) and I would not be surprised if in the near future this government or the next decides to restrict the number of FLR applications a spouse/partner can make; simply to stop people from making successive FLR applications in order to avoid the language requirements for ILR. This measure has been rumoured for some time.

[tribalfusion001]

I've already told her that she will not get a UK passport if she doesn't pass LITUK and B1 level, she's not bothered about a UK passport, but she wants to come back again and work in the UK.

Yes 7by7, she is paying for the FLR visa and also it will be in person, so even more expensive for her!

Maybe some time back in BKK living and working will galvanize her into learning, the lower wages should help in this matter, for me the wages will be roughly the same, so no great loss working in Thailand again.

I'm still collating my evidence, two plastic wallets full so far. There is no expiry date on her A1 certificate, but I'll check with Trinity College to see if there is one.

I have been firm with her, but typical Thai stubbornness and relying on farang to sort it all out for her.

Is a FLR visa stamped into a passport and also does it look like the spouse visa obtained in Thailand?

[Chittychangchang]

If you don't motivate her now then you are storing up a load of pain, ever increasing financial expense and heartache for the future.

You still qualify under the old rules so <deleted> get it sorted(many would love to be in your position)!

Get the passport then everything is easy.

There are on-line listening tests for £15 membership for 60 days.

Nothing in life worth having is easy.

There is a lot of help and support on Thaivisa.

Good luck

CCC

[thomasteve]

I've already told her that she will not get a UK passport if she doesn't pass LITUK and B1 level, she's not bothered about a UK passport, but she wants to come back again and work in the UK.

Yes 7by7, she is paying for the FLR visa and also it will be in person, so even more expensive for her!

Maybe some time back in BKK living and working will galvanize her into learning, the lower wages should help in this matter, for me the wages will be roughly the same, so no great loss working in Thailand again.

I'm still collating my evidence, two plastic wallets full so far. There is no expiry date on her A1 certificate, but I'll check with Trinity College to see if there is one.

I have been firm with her, but typical Thai stubbornness and relying on farang to sort it all out for her.

Is a FLR visa stamped into a passport and also does it look like the spouse visa obtained in Thailand?

Although those Trinity certs have no expiry date the UKBA list states they are valid for 2 years so you will need another one.

The visa is no longer a piece of paper (vignette) stuck in the passport but comes as a separate small plastic laminated card, similar to an ID card, and called a BRP or Biometric Residence Permit which needs to be shown with the passport.

The passport no longer has any visa stamps.

Edited September 12, 2013 by thomasteve

[Chittychangchang]

Is a FLR visa stamped into a passport and also does it look like the spouse visa obtained in Thailand?

It's all biometrics now so rule any ideas out

CCC