Uk Settlement Visa Refused And Confused...

[Rob180]

Hi, whilst I am no expert, and my views are based only on considerable reading of the UKBA website and the useful posts of other more knowledgeable forumites.... from reading the refusal it appears you did not provide substantial enough evidence of relationship. By that I would think they are looking for evidence of time spent together with some degree of time span. The refusal states you provided several hotel receipts but all but one were in your sole name and that you provided no travel tickets for trains or planes or anything else together and that you did not provide many photos. Whilst I believe you have genuine reasons for these omissions, the UKBA need proof the relationship is genuine. I think they view emails,msn,skype chat as additional evidence only and if the other parts are missing, those will not be enough. What about phone calls, did you provide them with call histories and bills?

Good luck with the appeal anyway.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Rob180

[Kevin1908]

" The refusal states you provided several hotel receipts but all but one were in your sole name and that you provided no travel tickets for trains or planes or anything else together and that you did not provide many photos. Whilst I believe you have genuine reasons for these omissions, the UKBA need proof the relationship is genuine. I think they view emails,msn,skype chat as additional evidence only and if the other parts are missing, those will not be enough. What about phone calls, did you provide them with call histories and bills?"

This was the one area that I struggled with, how do you prove the relationship is genuine. Who thinks to keep train tickets, plane tickets because some time down the line you might need these to support a visa application. Like wise msn and skype logs. Who books a hotel in both names? I book it and pay for it, it is my name. Seems to be a very difficult area to substantiate.

[bobrussell]

" The refusal states you provided several hotel receipts but all but one were in your sole name and that you provided no travel tickets for trains or planes or anything else together and that you did not provide many photos. Whilst I believe you have genuine reasons for these omissions, the UKBA need proof the relationship is genuine. I think they view emails,msn,skype chat as additional evidence only and if the other parts are missing, those will not be enough. What about phone calls, did you provide them with call histories and bills?"

This was the one area that I struggled with, how do you prove the relationship is genuine. Who thinks to keep train tickets, plane tickets because some time down the line you might need these to support a visa application. Like wise msn and skype logs. Who books a hotel in both names? I book it and pay for it, it is my name. Seems to be a very difficult area to substantiate.

We had a standing joke that one photo for my wife and one for the UKBA! Anything linking the two of us was kept carefully for a later date.

The answer to 'Who thinks to keep train tickets, plane tickets' is, anyone dealing with the UKBA! Once you are into the swing of visa applications you tend to keep everything!

My wife now has a British passport so these days are gone but the joking about photos still goes on!

[Rob180]

" The refusal states you provided several hotel receipts but all but one were in your sole name and that you provided no travel tickets for trains or planes or anything else together and that you did not provide many photos. Whilst I believe you have genuine reasons for these omissions, the UKBA need proof the relationship is genuine. I think they view emails,msn,skype chat as additional evidence only and if the other parts are missing, those will not be enough. What about phone calls, did you provide them with call histories and bills?"

This was the one area that I struggled with, how do you prove the relationship is genuine. Who thinks to keep train tickets, plane tickets because some time down the line you might need these to support a visa application. Like wise msn and skype logs. Who books a hotel in both names? I book it and pay for it, it is my name. Seems to be a very difficult area to substantiate.

You make a good point in 'who thinks to keep all tickets etc etc'. The answer is in normal day to day life you wouldn't, but as these are the kind of things the UKBA want as evidence then it appears for Visa purposes it is imperative to keep them. When you mentioned Skype logs, do you mean Skype to Skype video chats? I know that these do not show on call histories because they are free, but if you pay for a subscription (under £10 a month), you get a Skype To Go mobile number and you can phone Thailand day and night for no extra cost, but more importantly every call will appear in your Skype call history even if you made the calls from a landline or some other phone. I suspect maybe you only used Skype to Skype video calls which don't appear in call histories (unless someone can correct me on that)?

Also, did you use an agent or did you prepare and submit the application yourself?

Edited June 17, 2013 by Rob180

[Kevin1908]

You make a good point in 'who thinks to keep all tickets etc etc'. The answer is in normal day to day life you wouldn't, but as these are the kind of things the UKBA want as evidence then it appears for Visa purposes it is imperative to keep them. When you mentioned Skype logs, do you mean Skype to Skype video chats? I know that these do not show on call histories because they are free, but if you pay for a subscription (under £10 a month), you get a Skype To Go mobile number and you can phone Thailand day and night for no extra cost, but more importantly every call will appear in your Skype call history even if you made the calls from a landline or some other phone. I suspect maybe you only used Skype to Skype video calls which don't appear in call histories (unless someone can correct me on that)?

Also, did you use an agent or did you prepare and submit the application yourself?

I know MSN can keep a copy of an entire message. Not sure about skype but they are the same thing now. My wife did use an agent but I ddin't know about this until later. She got a visa so I guess that she supplied enough. Just from my side except for a copy of my passport visa page, a few emails, phone bill and credit card statements I was at a loss to know what to supply. The passport and the credit card doesn't necessarily point to a relationship.

Seems to me supplying a lot of what is needed is easy in hind sight. It has been suggested flight boarding passes should be sent but how does that point to a relationship.

[Rob180]

You make a good point in 'who thinks to keep all tickets etc etc'. The answer is in normal day to day life you wouldn't, but as these are the kind of things the UKBA want as evidence then it appears for Visa purposes it is imperative to keep them. When you mentioned Skype logs, do you mean Skype to Skype video chats? I know that these do not show on call histories because they are free, but if you pay for a subscription (under £10 a month), you get a Skype To Go mobile number and you can phone Thailand day and night for no extra cost, but more importantly every call will appear in your Skype call history even if you made the calls from a landline or some other phone. I suspect maybe you only used Skype to Skype video calls which don't appear in call histories (unless someone can correct me on that)?

Also, did you use an agent or did you prepare and submit the application yourself?

I know MSN can keep a copy of an entire message. Not sure about skype but they are the same thing now. My wife did use an agent but I ddin't know about this until later. She got a visa so I guess that she supplied enough. Just from my side except for a copy of my passport visa page, a few emails, phone bill and credit card statements I was at a loss to know what to supply. The passport and the credit card doesn't necessarily point to a relationship.

Seems to me supplying a lot of what is needed is easy in hind sight. It has been suggested flight boarding passes should be sent but how does that point to a relationship.

Sorry Kevin, I meant that reply to the original poster, but in your case was it a settlement visa she got and you say you didn't have to supply much evidence?? When was this, recent years or longer?

cheers

[FDog]

OP, you MUST keep records of hotels, flights etc in BOTH names, this shows a relationship.

But really, if you can't find the necessary details just phone the US NSA as they will have all the details of your contact, including what you said to each other. Just in case you have a shoe bomb.

Just kidding, wish you all the best, it is difficult dealing with the powers that be but you must put yourself in their shoes. They don't know you from a bar of soap. Put everything in the application as if you are dealing with a 10 year old.

I hope all goes well.

[Kevin1908]

Sorry Kevin, I meant that reply to the original poster, but in your case was it a settlement visa she got and you say you didn't have to supply much evidence?? When was this, recent years or longer?

cheers

The application went in last October then they came back for more information in February. There was very little extra that I was in a position to supply as we don't send many emails. Getting a hard copy bill out of my phone company is like getting blood out of stone. I did get some letters of reference from some expat friends and the wife got some letters of reference from the doctors at the hospital where she worked.

Like everything they want to see little seems to make sense to me. I mean that can see that I send regular amounts of money, why would I do that and get married if it wasn't genuine. You could counter that the applicant could still be a scammer but then why do Skype logs or endless photos count, boarding passes and hotel bookingsas well.

A scammer would know exactly what to provide.

[DRRunglawan]

Hi all,

just an update...back in may 2013 I had to appeal for the SV refusal and with a lot of waiting it has been allowed .

For the information for others in the same situation or are thinking to appeal, here are the actual timescales:-

Oct 2012 - apply SV

May 2013 - refusal letter

April 2013 - appeal (within 28 days)

wait 19 weeks for ECO to reconsider

Sep 2013 ECO did not overturn and sent appeal bundle to IAC

Sep 2013 - First Tier Tribunal court appointment set at Feb 2014

Feb 2014 - hearing

Appeal allowed in Feb 2014

All in all since the application in Oct 2012 it has now been 1.5 Years !

Probably quicker to re-apply if you have the visa fee and correct documents to hand (listed in the refusal), I included an extra few with the IAFT2 but at the hearing, which took 10 minutes, the judge was happy with the original evidence in fact the HO Representative dismissed the 'relationship point' before starting . Can't say I am happy with the whole experience, but at the end of it all the outcome was the goal and achieved.

Plus had the fee reimbursed

DRR

[NanLaew]

Well done sir!

The patience of a saint dealing with these bureaucrats. Nice getting a refund as well.

Hoping that the rest of your journey together will be much less testing.

[beano2274]

Maybe a dumb question, but I seem to be stumped by the relationship question.

Did you do the registration at the office or did you just do the family wedding ceremony, as the KR2 and KR3 would be more than enough proof in my opinion, (what I used to get my wife to germany, to live)

[durhamboy]

Good to hear that the OP got his wife's visa but what a palavar!!

Regarding the relationship issue, it seems to me that this is the only area where an ECO has to make a decision rather than tick a box. That decision is now a lot harder because there are no interviews anymore (or at the least very few) whereas before almost every applicant was interviewed.

Therefore it really is advisable to keep every scrap of info/photo/letter etc proving a relationship. Trouble is when you meet someone for the first time you don't usually know that he/she is the one!!!!

Also in the so-called paperless computerised society getting access to records is not so easy. A bit ironic really!

[classic-chassis]

Is having a marriage cert with photos of a slim, younger me and wife from 12 years ago, one seven year old girl and one 2 year old boy enough proof for them because i haven't ever thought of keeping anything as listed in this thread!!

Having said that, we've amassed lots of pictures over the years!

Edited March 24, 2014 by classic-chassis

[7by7]

If living together in Thailand, proving the relationship is genuine is fairly easy; as well as marriage certificate and any children's birth certificates you can also use letters addressed to you both jointly or each individually, tabien baan, copy of sponsor's passport showing their immigration status in Thailand etc.

If living apart, one in the UK the other in Thailand, then phone, Skype, email records etc. Plus a copy of the sponsor's passport showing entries to and exits from Thailand.

[tahaan]

If living together in Thailand, proving the relationship is genuine is fairly easy; as well as marriage certificate and any children's birth certificates you can also use letters addressed to you both jointly or each individually, tabien baan, copy of sponsor's passport showing their immigration status

Hmmm, I agree that it should be. However, when my wife applied for settlement my expired passport included with the application was returned to her by VFS staff as "not necessary" I had to fight my way past security to argue the point that it was vital evidence proving that I had been present in Thailand over the period stated in the app. That passport and a few photos were all the evidence we had. My then current passport had a brand new visa and one entry. As mentioned above, who goes through life filing receipts and stuff just in case they might be useful as evidence? Our flash to bang time between deciding to go and making the application was a couple of months.

Forgot to add - even the photos were difficult. I had hundreds of her and family but only a handful of us together. Most of those were taken at parties with the inevitable beer in hand.

Edited March 24, 2014 by tahaan

[thepool]

If living together in Thailand, proving the relationship is genuine is fairly easy; as well as marriage certificate and any children's birth certificates you can also use letters addressed to you both jointly or each individually, tabien baan, copy of sponsor's passport showing their immigration status

Hmmm, I agree that it should be. However, when my wife applied for settlement my expired passport included with the application was returned to her by VFS staff as "not necessary" I had to fight my way past security to argue the point that it was vital evidence proving that I had been present in Thailand over the period stated in the app. That passport and a few photos were all the evidence we had. My then current passport had a brand new visa and one entry. As mentioned above, who goes through life filing receipts and stuff just in case they might be useful as evidence? Our flash to bang time between deciding to go and making the application was a couple of months.

I hope you have registered a complaint with the Embassy .

The VFS staff have no authority to exclude anything from an application.