The Thai Mirage - I Met A Thai Girl That Was Working In Ferangland.

[Scully]

If her friends can talk English and won't talk to you, then you need to tell your partner. I would find it rude and ignorant if you don't speak Thai. Every time I have had a girlfriend they usually bend over backwards (no pun) to make you feel at home, you are on the other side of the world for goodneess sake.

Thailand's a big country the novelty wheres off soon enough but it's still a beautiful country with beautiful people. It sound like you have gone out been ignored and are now having second thoughts. Thai's that speak English love to talk it, even for practice, unless they don't want you to hear something which I doubt.

If you are having second thought's don't wait until it's too late.

[doji]

If all of these girlfriends who are fluent in English are refusing to speak to you in English, they are dissing you. They are deliberately leaving you out of the group.

I have to wonder why that's OK with your GF, as in, "where do you really fit in here?"

Absolutely. Agree with all of that.

But I have my doubts about the existence of all these nearly fluent Thai women. (Before someone jumps on me, I'm not saying at al that such women don't exist.)

Because you’re not in that circle normally, or at least not making a genuine effort to be in the educated thais circle. I’m not saying it’s the better circle, but what I’m saying is that “if you don’t seek, then you won’t find”. I and many of friends are educated with fluency in the English language (some are also with French & Chinese), and we’re all not being married to any farang.

We’re all have a full time job, (finance dept at Exim, supervisor at tour company, dept manager at Thai Airway, and I, a commodity trader,….. just to name a few.

It’s so true, that we seem to be living in different worlds. Like 2 parallel worlds in the universe?

We don’t know the daily life of your world, and vice versa. So far I have learn about bargirls and their businesses with farangs so much just by browsing through here, and not from our family or direct experiences ourselves in our normal daily life. Quite entertaining to read indeed, if I may say so. <no disrespect intended>

edit:

Just want to add that....."we all got married with no sinsod from our hubbies. (never asked, our parents just wanted us to be happy with long lasting marriage life, that's all)

Edited May 5, 2013 by doji

[rene123]

Shorter version of the OP:

Anyone who visits Disneyland for a week and then assumes the whole of America is exactly like that would rightly be called an idiot. Same here.

T

Excellent.

And anyone who thinks that life on holiday (even an extended one) can be compared to a sustainable day today existence over the long haul is almost as much so...but so many guys choose to live here and choose their mate based on the experience they had on a holiday - it works out well sometimes but only of one is rather lucky and one adapts in certain ways (not the least of which, a change of lifestyle: that's the part the OP got right).

I've said the same thing many times when people consider moving to another location where they've had a good holiday. I always suggest they spend a month there at the worst time of year. That way they might have some understanding of what it might be like to live there full time. I never could understand men selling everything they own and moving to some tiny village in Thailand where they neither know the language nor the culture. And that is not even taking into account adding a partner into the mix. Living with anyone on a long term basis can be a full test of patience.

[jocko]

Just got home, Thanks everyone for reading my rant. It probably reads very cliche to a lot of the thailand veterans, I've not spent very long in thailand compared to most people (everyone?) here.

I'm not experienced at writing like this, maybe next time I'll summarise it.

Some great comments.. I love how some of you analyze the smaller details of my post, classic.. theres nothing going on guys, it's just normal life.

And theres a real localized vibe going on in this forum also.

I realized the post wouldn't be to everyones liking but after reading the thread about the weather, I thought it would be ok..

And just to clarify, I never made a mention of having this place worked out. I just wanted to share my thoughts and observations, and thanks for all your perspectives, I've certainly learned something today.

All round you put a good post so dont worry about it you have written your overall impression of Thailand as you see it.

I have often wondered if people who had never been to Thailand and wanted to learn a bit before they come and started reading TV what would be there impression of Thailand?

I live in Patong surrounded by the dark side i meet normal Thais everyday i just go to the small shops and see Thais with state school education they seem very familiar to people i have met all over the world who have to work hard to make a living.

[FritsSikkink]

I won't introduce myself, theres no need. you will probably know me, not personally but you will know me.

FunFon ????

[Travel2003]

Going back to the title.

I have in my life, actually only met one Thai who worked abroad.

Not including washing up/serving in Thai restaurant that some family member has abroad.

She worked as a Casino croupier on a ship, and lived in Italy with her husband.

Her husband did not work on the same ship.

A few do massage in the Spa in some other cruise ships.

When telling my Thai friends that laundry crew on a cruise ship can easily make 30-35 000 Baht per month, they are amazed.

But when I tell them they need to be away for sometimes up to 9-10 months at the time, they just shrug and say it is not worth it.

I say, you come home with 350 000 (tax free) Baht after 10 months!

Not interested.

[slothful1]

Just got home, Thanks everyone for reading my rant. It probably reads very cliche to a lot of the thailand veterans, I've not spent very long in thailand compared to most people (everyone?) here.

I'm not experienced at writing like this, maybe next time I'll summarise it.

Some great comments.. I love how some of you analyze the smaller details of my post, classic.. theres nothing going on guys, it's just normal life.

And theres a real localized vibe going on in this forum also.

I realized the post wouldn't be to everyones liking but after reading the thread about the weather, I thought it would be ok..

And just to clarify, I never made a mention of having this place worked out. I just wanted to share my thoughts and observations, and thanks for all your perspectives, I've certainly learned something today.

All round you put a good post so dont worry about it you have written your overall impression of Thailand as you see it.

I have often wondered if people who had never been to Thailand and wanted to learn a bit before they come and started reading TV what would be there impression of Thailand?

I live in Patong surrounded by the dark side i meet normal Thais everyday i just go to the small shops and see Thais with state school education they seem very familiar to people i have met all over the world who have to work hard to make a living.

I think some people are more susceptible to coming under some illusion than others. I was told about thailand by a group of friends that went. The fantasy was built before I even got there. I just kept reinforcing it with lame reasons. I thought thailand was the answer to all my prayers at the time, now I just see people trying to earn a living like everyone else in the world. I know westerners that have prospered in these places as they have a balanced understanding of it, my post was not directed at them as they have no negative effects.

Myself, I got caught up in it and it negatively affected me, I lost a portion of my savings and I prevented myself from seeing my life in the long run. Just glad I got past it when I was young. I guess it was a good thing as, I probably wouldn't have met my best friend and soon to be wife in Australia. With her support I now have a strong business, sound investments, very heathy lifestyle, and many good options for the future.

[jocko]

Just got home, Thanks everyone for reading my rant. It probably reads very cliche to a lot of the thailand veterans, I've not spent very long in thailand compared to most people (everyone?) here.

I'm not experienced at writing like this, maybe next time I'll summarise it.

Some great comments.. I love how some of you analyze the smaller details of my post, classic.. theres nothing going on guys, it's just normal life.

And theres a real localized vibe going on in this forum also.

I realized the post wouldn't be to everyones liking but after reading the thread about the weather, I thought it would be ok..

And just to clarify, I never made a mention of having this place worked out. I just wanted to share my thoughts and observations, and thanks for all your perspectives, I've certainly learned something today.

All round you put a good post so dont worry about it you have written your overall impression of Thailand as you see it.

I have often wondered if people who had never been to Thailand and wanted to learn a bit before they come and started reading TV what would be there impression of Thailand?

I live in Patong surrounded by the dark side i meet normal Thais everyday i just go to the small shops and see Thais with state school education they seem very familiar to people i have met all over the world who have to work hard to make a living.

I think some people are more susceptible to coming under some illusion than others. I was told about thailand by a group of friends that went. The fantasy was built before I even got there. I just kept reinforcing it with lame reasons. I thought thailand was the answer to all my prayers at the time, now I just see people trying to earn a living like everyone else in the world. I know westerners that have prospered in these places as they have a balanced understanding of it, my post was not directed at them as they have no negative effects.

Myself, I got caught up in it and it negatively affected me, I lost a portion of my savings and I prevented myself from seeing my life in the long run. Just glad I got past it when I was young. I guess it was a good thing as, I probably wouldn't have met my best friend and soon to be wife in Australia. With her support I now have a strong business, sound investments, very heathy lifestyle, and many good options for the future.

May you live long and prosper.

[SteeleJoe]

Because youâre not in that circle normally, or at least not making a genuine effort to be in the educated thais circle. Iâm not saying itâs the better circle, but what Iâm saying is that âif you donât seek, then you wonât findâ. I and many of friends are educated with fluency in the English language (some are also with French & Chinese), and weâre all not being married to any farang.

Weâre all have a full time job, (finance dept at Exim, supervisor at tour company, dept manager at Thai Airway, and I, a commodity trader,â¦.. just to name a few.

Itâs so true, that we seem to be living in different worlds. Like 2 parallel worlds in the universe?

We donât know the daily life of your world, and vice versa. So far I have learn about bargirls and their businesses with farangs so much just by browsing through here, and not from our family or direct experiences ourselves in our normal daily life. Quite entertaining to read indeed, if I may say so.

edit:

Just want to add that....."we all got married with no sinsod from our hubbies. (never asked, our parents just wanted us to be happy with long lasting marriage life, that's all)

You've misunderstood me - perhaps in your rush to stereotype me and make intellectually lazy assumptions about me - and, not that you should have, you've not read my previous posts on this thread or all of my last post in which I said, "Before someone jumps on me, I'm not saying at all that such women don't exist." It happens that I also specifically mentioned in posts that I'd had relationships (ranging from business to friendship to romance) with educated women; I haven't even spoken to a bar girl in about 10 years and haven't had any friends from that world for over twice that. More than 20 years ago, I did exactly what you suggest: I made a conscious and successful effort to see more of Thai society - and Thai females - than that which was either the nightlife or it's periphery (or the rural working class which I had also been familiar with).

My skepticism is in regards to the OPs post: specifically that so many of his female friends are near fluent. I don't think it impossible - though I find it hard to believe they'd speak English so well but hate speaking it as he claimed - it might be true. After all, you and your friends are hardly the only ones in the country who have the English skills you say you have - I know Thai women and men who speak nearly fluent or even perfect English - but certainly neither they nor you are not at all typical. If you think you are, then, no disrespect intended, I venture to say I know more sides of Thailand than you and your relatively elite friends do.

Oh, and it's true that you don't know anything about my world - but you apparently think that you do...

Edited May 5, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[slothful1]

If all of these girlfriends who are fluent in English are refusing to speak to you in English, they are dissing you. They are deliberately leaving you out of the group.

I have to wonder why that's OK with your GF, as in, "where do you really fit in here?"

Absolutely. Agree with all of that.

But I have my doubts about the existence of all these nearly fluent Thai women. (Before someone jumps on me, I'm not saying at al that such women don't exist.)

Geez, I gotta be careful. In the interest of clarity, In my original post I made the statement - "Some of her uni friends speak almost fluent educated english"

I wasn't going to defend because it's a bit silly but here is some further insight for you..

I didn't put great deal of thought into this sentence as I didn't think twice about it, an upon recollection on said fluent english girls, yes I may have exaggerated. Two girls in particular speak great english, as in smooth flowing conversation. They sound fluent to me after staying in my girlfriends family house, and my girlfriend is not a skilled english linguist so my standard for fluency is probably quite low. One of them has put particular effort into her english skill. She went to an american english school through much of her younger life as extra study and speaks with an american accent.

So I'll downgrade from fluent educated english to good educated english.

As to why they don't speak to me much? There's light chit chat but I don't make much of an effort myself. They actually said to me I should learn more thai because they want to talk to me more. It's a big bunch of girls, 8 of them night and some don't speak much english so if some of them talked with me in english, they would be ignoring the friends that don't speak english. It's something that needs a bit of work on my part I believe. It would seem a bit self-centered to expect them to speak to me in my language, in their country.

[Thakkar]

Shorter version of the OP:

Anyone who visits Disneyland for a week and then assumes the whole of America is exactly like that would rightly be called an idiot. Same here.

T

Excellent.

And anyone who thinks that life on holiday (even an extended one) can be compared to a sustainable day today existence over the long haul is almost as much so...but so many guys choose to live here and choose their mate based on the experience they had on a holiday - it works out well sometimes but only of one is rather lucky and one adapts in certain ways (not the least of which, a change of lifestyle: that's the part the OP got right).

I've said the same thing many times when people consider moving to another location where they've had a good holiday. I always suggest they spend a month there at the worst time of year. That way they might have some understanding of what it might be like to live there full time. I never could understand men selling everything they own and moving to some tiny village in Thailand where they neither know the language nor the culture. And that is not even taking into account adding a partner into the mix. Living with anyone on a long term basis can be a full test of patience.

It's true. Men are prone to flights of fancy. It's not always bad, as instinct has its own intelligence. But such flights of fancy are also often the source of future tragedies- financial, emotional and otherwise. How things turn out depends on a combination of luck, one's disposition and one's ability to learn and change. It's more interesting to live by the seat of your pants. The real tragedy is failing to learn from experience and repeating one's mistakes.

T

Edited May 5, 2013 by Thakkar

[SteeleJoe]

It's true. Men are prone to flights of fancy. It's not always bad, as instinct has its own intelligence. But such flights of fancy are also often the source of future tragedies- financial, emotional and otherwise. How things turn out depends on a combination of luck, one's disposition and one's ability to learn and change. It's more interesting to live by the seat of your pants. The tragedy is failing to learn from experience and repeating one's mistakes.

T

Quality.

Kudos.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

As to why they don't speak to me much? There's light chit chat but I don't make much of an effort myself. They actually said to me I should learn more thai because they want to talk to me more. It's a big bunch of girls, 8 of them night and some don't speak much english so if some of them talked with me in english, they would be ignoring the friends that don't speak english. It's something that needs a bit of work on my part I believe. It would seem a bit self-centered to expect them to speak to me in my language, in their country.

If they do have English speaking capability, the obvious reason they don't speak to you is because they don't like you, but do like your wallet.

There are a lot of foreigners in your situation. Just avoid hanging with her and her friends, then you don't have to pay for all their stuff.

The real mirage is you not seeing you are being used.

Edited May 5, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[SteeleJoe]

I didn't put great deal of thought into this sentence as I didn't think twice about it, an upon recollection on said fluent english girls, yes I may have exaggerated. Two girls in particular speak great english, as in smooth flowing conversation. They sound fluent to me after staying in my girlfriends family house, and my girlfriend is not a skilled english linguist so my standard for fluency is probably quite low. One of them has put particular effort into her english skill. She went to an american english school through much of her younger life as extra study and speaks with an american accent.

So I'll downgrade from fluent educated english to good educated english.

As to why they don't speak to me much? There's light chit chat but I don't make much of an effort myself. They actually said to me I should learn more thai because they want to talk to me more. It's a big bunch of girls, 8 of them night and some don't speak much english so if some of them talked with me in english, they would be ignoring the friends that don't speak english. It's something that needs a bit of work on my part I believe. It would seem a bit self-centered to expect them to speak to me in my language, in their country.

Fair enough.

As for the attention on that line being silly, it was relevant as it damaged your credibility in my eyes and apparently some other people's too.

But if they want to include you in the conversation, they can without leaving anyone else out; it takes more effort but it can be done if they want. (I myself have many times been in group of Thais and foreigners with myself as the only Thai speaker among the foreigner. In the cases where the Thais had a real interest in including the foreigners (or just being polite) they made sure that with my help they did. You are talking about groups with more than one Thai person highly skilled in English among them...).

But I agree that, especially with your situation and your outlook, really the onus is ultimately on you to do the work to adapt to Thais rather than the other way around.

[SteeleJoe]

If they do have English speaking capability, the obvious reason they don't speak to you is because they don't like you, but do like your wallet.

There are a lot of foreigners in your situation. Just avoid hanging with her and her friends, then you don't have to pay for all their stuff.

The real mirage is you not seeing you are being used.

I chose to be more kind, but I'm afraid there's a real possibility that that's all true.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

If they do have English speaking capability, the obvious reason they don't speak to you is because they don't like you, but do like your wallet.

There are a lot of foreigners in your situation. Just avoid hanging with her and her friends, then you don't have to pay for all their stuff.

The real mirage is you not seeing you are being used.

I chose to be more kind, but I'm afraid there's a real possibility that that's all true.

It is an understandable mistake for a foreigner to make.

Most places in the western world people that don't like you just avoid you.

But here, many want to leech off you if you are daft enough to let them.

In some third world countries everyone appears to be your friend.

[Thakkar]

As to why they don't speak to me much? There's light chit chat but I don't make much of an effort myself. They actually said to me I should learn more thai because they want to talk to me more. It's a big bunch of girls, 8 of them night and some don't speak much english so if some of them talked with me in english, they would be ignoring the friends that don't speak english. It's something that needs a bit of work on my part I believe. It would seem a bit self-centered to expect them to speak to me in my language, in their country.

If they do have English speaking capability, the obvious reason they don't speak to you is because they don't like you, but do like your wallet.

There are a lot of foreigners in your situation. Just avoid hanging with her and her friends, then you don't have to pay for all their stuff.

The real mirage is you not seeing you are being used.

You're being unfair. If some of the ladies don't speak English, especially the OP's GF, then those who do and spend an inordinate amount of time speaking it will look like show-offs, or worse, trying to steal her boyfriend. They are following the proper social etiquette in this situation by refraining from overuse of a language not common to the majority in the group, but especially in deference to the OP's GF, who is far from fluent.

T

[slothful1]

As to why they don't speak to me much? There's light chit chat but I don't make much of an effort myself. They actually said to me I should learn more thai because they want to talk to me more. It's a big bunch of girls, 8 of them night and some don't speak much english so if some of them talked with me in english, they would be ignoring the friends that don't speak english. It's something that needs a bit of work on my part I believe. It would seem a bit self-centered to expect them to speak to me in my language, in their country.

If they do have English speaking capability, the obvious reason they don't speak to you is because they don't like you, but do like your wallet.

There are a lot of foreigners in your situation. Just avoid hanging with her and her friends, then you don't have to pay for all their stuff.

The real mirage is you not seeing you are being used.

Ha, Pay for there stuff? you must be reflecting your own life as I have made no mention of this, otherwise I'm not sure where you got that from. Each time I have been out with them I have not been allowed to pay, they simply won't accept my money. Same with the girlfriends family, They won't let me pay. I pay for my girlfriends dinner to be romantic occasionally, but I'm not here for relationship advice. I didn't want to go into these details as I am now in what I would consider a normal relationship, much as I would have with any girl in my own country. * edit - from my own country.

Edited May 5, 2013 by slothful1

[AnotherOneAmerican]

As to why they don't speak to me much? There's light chit chat but I don't make much of an effort myself. They actually said to me I should learn more thai because they want to talk to me more. It's a big bunch of girls, 8 of them night and some don't speak much english so if some of them talked with me in english, they would be ignoring the friends that don't speak english. It's something that needs a bit of work on my part I believe. It would seem a bit self-centered to expect them to speak to me in my language, in their country.

If they do have English speaking capability, the obvious reason they don't speak to you is because they don't like you, but do like your wallet.

There are a lot of foreigners in your situation. Just avoid hanging with her and her friends, then you don't have to pay for all their stuff.

The real mirage is you not seeing you are being used.

Ha, Pay for there stuff? you must be reflecting your own life as I have made no mention of this, otherwise I'm not sure where you got that from. Each time I have been out with them I have not been allowed to pay, they simply won't accept my money. Same with the girlfriends family, They won't let me pay. I pay for my girlfriends dinner to be romantic occasionally, but I'm not here for relationship advice. I didn't want to go into these details as I am now in what I would consider a normal relationship, much as I would have with any girl in my own country. * edit - from my own country.

In that case they are being too polite, and you aren't getting the hint.

As for my own life, I am a single person, am too old to bother with women, and don't go out with other guys who expect someone else to pay.

Nor do I free-load off others.

Oh, oh, and I don't associate with people who can't (or won't) speak with me in my language.

(what on earth would be the point)

Edited May 5, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[slothful1]

As to why they don't speak to me much? There's light chit chat but I don't make much of an effort myself. They actually said to me I should learn more thai because they want to talk to me more. It's a big bunch of girls, 8 of them night and some don't speak much english so if some of them talked with me in english, they would be ignoring the friends that don't speak english. It's something that needs a bit of work on my part I believe. It would seem a bit self-centered to expect them to speak to me in my language, in their country.

If they do have English speaking capability, the obvious reason they don't speak to you is because they don't like you, but do like your wallet.

There are a lot of foreigners in your situation. Just avoid hanging with her and her friends, then you don't have to pay for all their stuff.

The real mirage is you not seeing you are being used.

Ha, Pay for there stuff? you must be reflecting your own life as I have made no mention of this, otherwise I'm not sure where you got that from. Each time I have been out with them I have not been allowed to pay, they simply won't accept my money. Same with the girlfriends family, They won't let me pay. I pay for my girlfriends dinner to be romantic occasionally, but I'm not here for relationship advice. I didn't want to go into these details as I am now in what I would consider a normal relationship, much as I would have with any girl in my own country. * edit - from my own country.

In that case they are being too polite, and you aren't getting the hint.

As for my own life, I am a single person, am too old to bother with women, and don't go out with other guys who expect someone else to pay.

Nor do I free-load off others.

option 1 - They are being too polite, I'm a freeloader and I expect others to pay

option 2 - We only come here for a few weeks a year, We don't see them often and when I am out with them they always insist on paying leaving me no chance to pay.

I have assets that pay me weekly and money is no problem for me these days, the friends and family are all nice people and they seem genuinely proud to be able to pay for us. Whatever, we are talking about a couple of dollars here and it's classic troll argument anyway.

You go with option 1 though..

[HardenedSoul]

As to why they don't speak to me much? There's light chit chat but I don't make much of an effort myself. They actually said to me I should learn more thai because they want to talk to me more. It's a big bunch of girls, 8 of them night and some don't speak much english so if some of them talked with me in english, they would be ignoring the friends that don't speak english. It's something that needs a bit of work on my part I believe. It would seem a bit self-centered to expect them to speak to me in my language, in their country.

If they do have English speaking capability, the obvious reason they don't speak to you is because they don't like you, but do like your wallet.

There are a lot of foreigners in your situation. Just avoid hanging with her and her friends, then you don't have to pay for all their stuff.

The real mirage is you not seeing you are being used.

Unbelieveable!!

How do you know they're leeching off the guy? Where did he say that or are you just fabricating nonsense because you're bored??

Seriously, some of the drivel spewed on this thread defies belief.

[doji]

You've misunderstood me - perhaps in your rush to stereotype me and make intellectually lazy assumptions about me - and, not that you should have, you've not read my previous posts on this thread or all of my last post in which I said, "Before someone jumps on me, I'm not saying at all that such women don't exist." It happens that I also specifically mentioned in posts that I'd had relationships (ranging from business to friendship to romance) with educated women; I haven't even spoken to a bar girl in about 10 years and haven't had any friends from that world for over twice that. More than 20 years ago, I did exactly what you suggest: I made a conscious and successful effort to see more of Thai society - and Thai females - than that which was either the nightlife or it's periphery (or the rural working class which I had also been familiar with).

My skepticism is in regards to the OPs post: specifically that so many of his female friends are near fluent. I don't think it impossible - though I find it hard to believe they'd speak English so well but hate speaking it as he claimed - it might be true. After all, you and your friends are hardly the only ones in the country who have the English skills you say you have - I know Thai women and men who speak nearly fluent or even perfect English - but certainly neither they nor you are not at all typical. If you think you are, then, no disrespect intended, I venture to say I know more sides of Thailand than you and your relatively elite friends do.

Oh, and it's true that you don't know anything about my world - but you apparently think that you do...

“elite”?....what is your definition of being an elite? Do you think that just because we’re not that poor, and be able to be quite fluent in English (well to our standard anyway), those make us one of the elite? Are you sure, you’re not over simplified the term?

We certainly don’t see ourselves that way, neither our families. We all do work for a living…a long hard day of work….no work, no pay. We don’t eat in some hi-so places, we mostly eat at home or foods from mostly foodstalls or local ma&pa venues. My two aunties sell homemade desserts at our paksoi (which I posted in another topic here earlier). We don’t have driver or housekeeper, we watch what we spend and very frugal with money. Neither we have super white skin, nor from the Chinese heritage. Our family is just a simple hard working Thais. I don’t get anything for free from my parents. My friend has to drive 2.5 hrs “each way”, just to get to work. We don’t have habit of looking down on people, especially poor people.

We also did many good public charities in rural areas and had built a job training school for the poors, with our own money. Sometimes when we have extra, we do share, no big deal. So what have many of the farangs here done for the public goods, when many here seem to love bragging …..as I have THIS and have THAT etcs.???

This got me thinking too, as I came across many posts that talking about “hi-so” girls. Many here seem to get the idea that just because the girls have white skin and not working in a farm or something etcs , she’s a hi-so. Simply it’s not true, generally that ‘s not the thais see it anyway. I think the word “hi-so” is being used too loosely and over simplified here, without even knowing what it means exactly in Thailand. Don’t people here do any research first or something?

Additionally I also often came across many posts asking for this and that, when most of the answers can be had …just by quickly googling it, common people! I thought many of you here see yourself as more superior than the thais in educational wise. Or it’s just simply being “lazy”?, ...OH but not lazier than the thais, right?

Just want to vent out a few things in one post haha. I’m being waaaay off topic here, and I normally like reading better than posting anyway.

Edited May 5, 2013 by doji

[Thakkar]

If they do have English speaking capability, the obvious reason they don't speak to you is because they don't like you, but do like your wallet.

There are a lot of foreigners in your situation. Just avoid hanging with her and her friends, then you don't have to pay for all their stuff.

The real mirage is you not seeing you are being used.

I chose to be more kind, but I'm afraid there's a real possibility that that's all true.

It is an understandable mistake for a foreigner to make.

Most places in the western world people that don't like you just avoid you.

But here, many want to leech off you if you are daft enough to let them.

In some third world countries everyone appears to be your friend.

I've traveled in third world countries and made friends with people living in South African townships and Nigerian and Indian slums. I've found both poor and educated people, as well as poor and uneducated people to be among the most warm and hospitable I've ever met. On the other hand, I've found that it's often the well off, educated people that are more calculating.

Some of the best parties I've attended were at Capetown townships and Lagos slums. I just showed up with a bottle of Sambuca or a case of beer and had the times of my life. Many there took my number and address. When they contacted me, the only thing they wanted from me was advice.

There are leaches, of course, and they're not hard to spot, or avoid. It's not fair to generalize though.

T

[Stradavarius37]

Apisit does, so does Korn. So do countless professors at Mahidol where I teach.

Countless professors at Mahidol speak fluent English? That surprises me a bit. In any case to suggest that they are representative sampling of the average Thai or anything more than a relative minority would be ridiculous. To suggest that Abhisit is even beyond that (born in England, student there from 11yo, Etonian, Oxford - if he didn't have better English skills than a great many native speakers, it would be extremely odd - and he does.)

Perhaps you were joking?

Just noticed you mentioned Korn too - just as funny. Also born in England, also educated there from boyhood at the very best schools and a classmate with Abhisit at Oxford.

Most "Native English Speakers" have such unintelligible accents the you can't understand anything said. Don't put much currency in the "Great and Powerful Concept" of the "Native English Speaker.

[Travel2003]

Reading the last posts, I keep returning to post # 1, to see relevance.

It is like OP posted a quote from the bible, since most of it in that book can be interpreted as we wish.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Reading the last posts, I keep returning to post # 1, to see relevance.

It is like OP posted a quote from the bible, since most of it in that book can be interpreted as we wish.

Very true, little information was revealed in the OP.

but

Speaking in a language a guest doesn't understand, when you can choose to speak in your guest's language is rude.

No two ways about it.

[SteeleJoe]

“elite”?....what is your definition of being an elite? Do you think that just because we’re not that poor, and be able to be quite fluent in English (well to our standard anyway), those make us one of the elite? Are you sure, you’re not over simplified the term?

We certainly don’t see ourselves that way, neither our families. We all do work for a living…a long hard day of work….no work, no pay. We don’t eat in some hi-so places, we mostly eat at home or foods from mostly foodstalls or local ma&pa venues. My two aunties sell homemade desserts at our paksoi (which I posted in another topic here earlier). We don’t have driver or housekeeper, we watch what we spend and very frugal with money. Neither we have super white skin, nor from the Chinese heritage. Our family is just a simple hard working Thais. I don’t get anything for free from my parents. My friend has to drive 2.5 hrs “each way”, just to get to work. We don’t have habit of looking down on people, especially poor people.

We also did many good public charities in rural areas and had built a job training school for the poors, with our own money. Sometimes when we have extra, we do share, no big deal. So what have many of the farangs here done for the public goods, when many here seem to love bragging …..as I have THIS and have THAT etcs.???

This got me thinking too, as I came across many posts that talking about “hi-so” girls. Many here seem to get the idea that just because the girls have white skin and not working in a farm or something etcs , she’s a hi-so. Simply it’s not true, generally that ‘s not the thais see it anyway. I think the word “hi-so” is being used too loosely and over simplified here, without even knowing what it means exactly in Thailand. Don’t people here do any research first or something?

Additionally I also often came across many posts asking for this and that, when most of the answers can be had …just by quickly googling it, common people! I thought many of you here see yourself as more superior than the thais in educational wise. Or it’s just simply being “lazy”?, ...OH but not lazier than the thais, right?

Just want to vent out a few things in one post haha. I’m being waaaay off topic here, and I normally like reading better than posting anyway.

Are you deliberately ignoring key parts of what I post just to have a reason to express outrage at something that isn't happening here? I think your comments are all things that need to be said to some people - but not to me.

Elite:

▸ noun: a group or class of persons enjoying superior intellectual or SOCIAL or ECONOMIC STATUS (emphasis mine)

Here's another word you need to know:

Relatively:

adverb: In a relative manner; in comparison with something else

The way you see yourself has nothing to do with it nor have I made any assumptions about how you see yourselves.

Your skin color or non-Chinese background has nothing to do with my post: I am not one of those with the simplistic view that any Thai who is RELATIVELY well off and/or well educated must be light skinned and Chinese (I am knowledgeable enough not to believ that and I know personally or know of far too many ELITE Thais who have neither of those characteristics).

" I don’t get anything for free from my parents. My friend has to drive 2.5 hrs “each way”, just to get to work. We don’t have habit of looking down on people, especially poor people. "

Nothing to do with my post. Never implied or even thought otherwise.

"We also did many good public charities in rural areas and had built a job training school for the poors, with our own money. Sometimes when we have extra, we do share, no big deal."

Nothing to do with my post. Never implied or even thought otherwise.

"So what have many of the farangs here done for the public goods, when many here seem to love bragging …..as I have THIS and have THAT etcs.???"

Nothing to do with my post. I can't speak for ANY of the Farangs here and have zero desire to. I know that I have done quite a lot, RELATIVELY speaking, for the public good. More than many of the Thai people I know. (And. Think if you look at charitable organizations in Thailand, you'll find quite a few founded and often run by Farang as well as largely funded by them as well).

I don't typically use "hi so" and I couldn't agree more that it used far too loosely and inaccurately on this forum. I don't traffic in stereotypes about Chinese girls. Ever.

I've NEVER said or in any implied or even thought that I am superior to Thais in general, in any way including education.

By all means vent all you like and object to distortions and fallacies on this forum as much as you like (I think it's not only your right but the right thing to do and to the benefit of the board) - but please stop falsely attributing them to me. It's offensive and dishonest.

[slothful1]

Reading the last posts, I keep returning to post # 1, to see relevance.

It is like OP posted a quote from the bible, since most of it in that book can be interpreted as we wish.

This! To actually read some of the interpretations of my situation is hysterical to say the least, It's actually quite entertaining.

[SteeleJoe]

Apisit does, so does Korn. So do countless professors at Mahidol where I teach.

Countless professors at Mahidol speak fluent English? That surprises me a bit. In any case to suggest that they are representative sampling of the average Thai or anything more than a relative minority would be ridiculous. To suggest that Abhisit is even beyond that (born in England, student there from 11yo, Etonian, Oxford - if he didn't have better English skills than a great many native speakers, it would be extremely odd - and he does.)

Perhaps you were joking?

Just noticed you mentioned Korn too - just as funny. Also born in England, also educated there from boyhood at the very best schools and a classmate with Abhisit at Oxford.

Most "Native English Speakers" have such unintelligible accents the you can't understand anything said. Don't put much currency in the "Great and Powerful Concept" of the "Native English Speaker.

What has that got to do with my post? Did you even read it properly? (Hint: implicit in it is the acknowledgement that many Native Speakers aren't the best users of English). Or are you now trying to sort of reverse yourself by saying the fact that Abhisit and Korn have arguably better English skills than a great many native speakers, that isn't saying much and isn't all that impressive?

By the way, that's a ridiculous comment - MOST native speakers are unintelligible? To whom? You use the generic "you" which means that you believe that this is so for people in general. However do the native speakers survive? sign language? How does the English speaking world manage to communicate efficiently for so long?

And I'm not familiar with the Great and Powerful Concept" of the "Native English Speaker...

Any response to what I posted that actually refutes it (or acknowledges it as accurate)?

Edited May 5, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[SteeleJoe]

“elite”?....what is your definition of being an elite? Do you think that just because we’re not that poor, and be able to be quite fluent in English (well to our standard anyway), those make us one of the elite? Are you sure, you’re not over simplified the term?

We certainly don’t see ourselves that way, neither our families. We all do work for a living…a long hard day of work….no work, no pay. We don’t eat in some hi-so places, we mostly eat at home or foods from mostly foodstalls or local ma&pa venues. My two aunties sell homemade desserts at our paksoi (which I posted in another topic here earlier). We don’t have driver or housekeeper, we watch what we spend and very frugal with money. Neither we have super white skin, nor from the Chinese heritage. Our family is just a simple hard working Thais. I don’t get anything for free from my parents. My friend has to drive 2.5 hrs “each way”, just to get to work. We don’t have habit of looking down on people, especially poor people.

We also did many good public charities in rural areas and had built a job training school for the poors, with our own money. Sometimes when we have extra, we do share, no big deal. So what have many of the farangs here done for the public goods, when many here seem to love bragging …..as I have THIS and have THAT etcs.???

This got me thinking too, as I came across many posts that talking about “hi-so” girls. Many here seem to get the idea that just because the girls have white skin and not working in a farm or something etcs , she’s a hi-so. Simply it’s not true, generally that ‘s not the thais see it anyway. I think the word “hi-so” is being used too loosely and over simplified here, without even knowing what it means exactly in Thailand. Don’t people here do any research first or something?

Additionally I also often came across many posts asking for this and that, when most of the answers can be had …just by quickly googling it, common people! I thought many of you here see yourself as more superior than the thais in educational wise. Or it’s just simply being “lazy”?, ...OH but not lazier than the thais, right?

Just want to vent out a few things in one post haha. I’m being waaaay off topic here, and I normally like reading better than posting anyway.

I feel bad that though I initially intended to, I didn't put this in my previous response and it needs to be said: though I think you have mischaracterized me and my comments a great deal - and it seems somewhat deliberate - I sincerely apologize if I have in turn mischaracterized you or your friends or even if I seem to have done so.