Aussie Farang Ladies Escapes "Bangkok Hilton" Jail

[george]

Aussie farang ladies escapes "Bangkok Hilton" jail

Jane McKenzie, left, and Debbie Spinner in jail, soon to be sent back home.

Eight years on, heroin pair to return

BANGKOK: For eight long years Jane McKenzie and Debbie Spinner have nursed the nightmare of their 50-year sentences in Bangkok's Klong Prem Prison with poignant images of the children they left in Australia.

Every day in the cramped and squalid conditions of the infamous "Bangkok Hilton", thoughts of their families in Sydney have helped sustain the women though the ordeal of their convictions for heroin trafficking - and the times they thought they would never see Australia again.

"I have four very beautiful children to go home to and that has been my main inspiration through all these years," McKenzie, 38, told The Age yesterday, through the wire mesh cage of the prison's visitor centre.

Within weeks, the pain of distant separation, if not the deprivations of imprisonment, will be over for McKenzie and Spinner, 36, who has two children.

Thai authorities agreed last week that the women could be transferred to Australia to complete their sentences under a bilateral prisoner exchange treaty concluded two years ago.

The pair are expected to be sent to a maximum security prison in Sydney where they will have regular access to the children they have not seen since they left Australia in 1996.

Then they were two naive junkies lured on a doomed drug run by the promise of their first trip overseas and a small cut of the heroin for their own use.

"I just thank God. This is overwhelming," McKenzie said.

"I'm extremely happy and very thankful to the Australian Government and the Thai Government for making this possible. Of course, Debbie's very, very excited too. You can't imagine what this means to us both."

Under the terms of the transfer, the women are required to complete another five years of their sentences in Australia.

But McKenzie is optimistic of a pardon from the Thai king that could free them within a year.

Lyle Doniger, who was arrested with them in 1996, returned to Sydney two years ago after being pardoned. McKenzie, whose husband died of an apparent drug overdose in Sydney several years ago, said prison time in Australia would be easier to bear.

"It will be the most wonderful moment when we get to see the children again. My youngest was just two years old when I left Australia and my eldest son was 12. Now he's 19 and grown up," she said.

When they were arrested at Bangkok airport preparing to board a flight to Australia in 1996, McKenzie, Spinner and Doniger were found to have a combined 115.4 grams of heroin concealed in condoms inside their bodies.

It put them above the threshold of 100 grams for a conviction for conspiracy to traffick and a life prison sentence, which was later "halved" to 50 years.

McKenzie, who has found God and started studying to become a social worker, said eight years in prison had changed her and probably saved her life.

"I realise that we made a horrendous mistake, but I truly feel after eight years in prison we have more than paid the price for what we did," she said.

--theage.com.au

[Axel]

Difficult to understand, but then I reach an age where I am thankful that neither my son nor my daughter ever got involved with drugs. So, I don't blame their parents for their daughter's stupidity and perhaps, I was just lucky?

For younger girls, difficult to explain, just use a calculator, arrested at 30, eight years in here, another 5 to go?

That's 43 YO before you can start to live again. How old is 43 to you?

[DaveYo]

Well Axel, consider this. At least they got out of the notorious Hilton which I think everybody agrees is h*ll on earth. They also have a chance to be pardoned by his highness sometime within the year. If not, I bet most likely they will get released earlier once in Australia, and they might even pursue their chances for early release from the courts there, if the Thai government does not object.

Sure the agreement to some extend might be binding, but I would think that once the foreigners do return home anything can happen since they won't be under the control of the foreign country anymore.

Also 43 is a h*ll of a lot better to begin your life all over again than at 80 years of age. If they stayed in Thailand most likely they wouldn't see freedom for another 20 years (which is just a guess or even more).

Daveyoti

PS Also this might apply to the two english dope heads arrested recently. They just might only do a 10 ball in Thailand, and then go home, depending on what sentence gets handed down later on.

[jimbfburnett]

What a price to pay for being more than stupid! Learned their lesson? Lets hope so. In my experience, dealing with drugies, while they are using they would sell their children for the next high. Thailand has enough of a Drug Problem without forigners adding to it. Good luck to them.

J. Burnett

[Axel]

Well Axel, consider this. At least they got out of the notorious Hilton which I think everybody agrees is h*ll on earth. .....

DaveYo, your heart is too soft for this world.

No excuse for druggies, but than, I always ask WHY?

[DaveYo]

Based on the calculations of a 50 year sentence, these girls did about 17 percent of their sentence in Thailand. If they do the whole five years in Australia max they would have done on this sentence is 26 percent.

So in other words the percentage favors the prisoner to some extent based on the number of years sentenced and not the other way around where time actually served is considered the percentage like here in America. In America when one is sentenced (depending on the state they are in) most do half time which is 25 years actual time served. In some cases like murder, they have to do 80 percent of the sentence which is 40 years to do actual time served.

Daveyoti

[DaveYo]

Axel, I am not saying that the druggies deserve a break or anything like that at all. That statement I said is well known concerning the Hilton, and according to the news report these girls in so many words as indicated that they are indeed happy just to get out of there.

It does not matter if it was drugs, or murder or robbery or what kind of crime so convicted of. Just getting out of the Hilton itself will make any prisoner happy more or less. That is the impression so given from of just about everyone who ever was inside that place.

Daveyoti

[sinbinjack]

i feel sorry for the addicts not the pushers or the mules they use to transport their poision you know its wrong or you dont hide it so no sorrow for theses women it was not an accident that put them in jail just greed and going to thailand was just suicidel

jack

[Spellbound]

It does not matter if it was drugs, or murder or robbery or what kind of crime so convicted of. Just getting out of the Hilton itself will make any prisoner happy more or less. That is the impression so given from of just about everyone who ever was inside that place.

Perhaps if more prisons around the world were the same as the BKK Hilton, drug uses, pushers, growers etc, would think before they <deleted> up other human beings life. These lowlifes deserve to stay in nick until their full term has been completed. They knew they had family including kids, and if it were me, I would leave them there.

Its a proven fact around the western world drug users cause more crime than any other criminal faction. The cost to the world is too great to have scum like this around.

[Lucky_Boy_Farang]

PS  Also this might apply to the two english dope heads arrested recently.  They just might only do a 10 ball in Thailand, and then go home, depending on what sentence gets handed down later on.

Daveyo, Please show abit of compassion towards our young big ear friend (Micheal Connell).

I'm visiting Young Micheal in Lard Yao (Bangkok Hilton) in July as I'm in Thailand for a month and again in December on my way to Bali then New Zealand then again on my way back home.

People might think I'm stupid for doing so but I really feel for the lad. And will drop of books and fruit and a bit of pocket money for him.

I've been in trouble when I was young and spent 4 months in prison myself as you proberly know from reading my post last month, So I do know what he's going throu but 20 times more worse.

I sent him a Christmas card in December and he received it at the end of January, Plus £30 pocket money.

How do I know he received it? Prisoners abroad informed me as I'm in contact with them.

Dont worry my little big ear friend, there are people in the outside world who haven't forgotton you rotten away in that snake pit. Lucky boy is on his way

[DaveYo]

Lucky, that is noble of you. Not many will take the time or make the effort so to speak. I am a softie by itself, and if i say something i get crucified one way or another. I understand him being a kid, but at the same time bringing in that much dope is another bees wax. I give him that much being a kid and being stupid and naive. Anything else no. He knew what is right from wrong. Old enough in that department, but not educated enough to use his brain the right way.

And to Spellbound, let me ask you just one question????? How come Thailand and its neighbors produced so much heroin in the earlier days????????? One was white heroin and the other brown heroin. White is a 1,000 times more pure than the brown and more expensive. It most certainly did not come from USA or from Europe!!!!!!!! South America was no where near being in the picture Heroin wise besides Marijuana which at that time was their main production such as Columbian Gold, Mexican, and Jamaican. The reports showed indeed a proven fact that Thailand (being in SouthEast Asia) was a major producer of such drug, being the poppy fields, and were the biggest exporters of such for a long time smuggling it into this country.

Or did you forget the past???????? People are quick to point out the wrongs but simply forget the past that they once were involved with at one time or another.

Yes White Heroin.

Daveyoti

[huski]

When they were arrested at Bangkok airport preparing to board a flight to Australia in 1996, McKenzie, Spinner and Doniger were found to have a combined 115.4 grams of heroin concealed in condoms inside their bodies.

daveyo, you're the airport security dude. what do you think, they ate them or it took a cavity search to dig em out?

[DaveYo]

Huski, I am not that familiar with the case involving the women. From what you showed me here, it would indicate to me that the authorities got tipped off, or perhaps at that time they had drug dogs around them. I don't know because I did not enter Bangkok until 2001. I can say at O'Hare they had these dogs here and they were in the beginning stages of security for drugs and weapons which grew to the present time. I have no idea what Bangkok was doing at that time period, but I do know about Europe because I was tripping in Rome, England, France, Germany, Yugoslavia and the Netherlands.

Now a days, authorities don't need to be actually tipped off. They have machines that will detect such on your body.

So much for technology I guess.

Daveyoti

[Jimbo]

Well if you do the crime, you should do the time. I agree that a Thai jail isnt fun and can be a real ###### on earth but you must know what yype of mess you git in when you got caught. Again, 50 yrs or more is an extreme punishment and I dont agree with it but who am I to say that. You are breaking the law in another country and should face up to their punishment.

Just a small note. If you are really that desperate then there are plenty of easy runs like curacao to holland where you will only get a slap on the risk. Any if you were to be so stupid to do a run then why only takw 120 grams. Go for a kilo then which is an average what they swallow (the drug runners) instead of going for some measely profit/fee.

And the member on this forum who visits some folks in the Bgk Hilton, great inniative. Although I feel that they deserve their punishment, I do feel that its great if someone visits them and thereby makes their lifes a nit better. I would like it if I was stuck their.

[DaveYo]

Huski I also noticed in your quote the word "COMBINED TOTAL" So if that is the case, then each girl was supposed to have had 38.47 grams of heroin apiece. Well below the 100 gram thresh-hold for a severe sentence.

What gives here????? If each had 115.4 grams that would be total 346.2 grams.

Sure they got convicted, but I am suspicious of the amounts they were supposingly convicted of. Hmmmm, I am sure any lawyer with some brains would notice this part for certain.

With this information it is almost a sure bet that they will appeal once in Australia and point this out to the court for sentence reduction and if not immediate freedom.

Daveyoti

[Lucky_Boy_Farang]

Lucky, that is noble of you. Not many will take the time or make the effort so to speak. I am a softie by itself, and if i say something i get crucified one way or another. I understand him being a kid, but at the same time bringing in that much dope is another bees wax. I give him that much being a kid and being stupid and naive. Anything else no. He knew what is right from wrong. Old enough in that department, but not educated enough to use his brain the right way.

And to Spellbound, let me ask you just one question????? How come Thailand and its neighbors produced so much heroin in the earlier days????????? One was white heroin and the other brown heroin. White is a 1,000 times more pure than the brown and more expensive. It most certainly did not come from USA or from Europe!!!!!!!! South America was no where near being in the picture Heroin wise besides Marijuana which at that time was their main production such as Columbian Gold, Mexican, and Jamaican. The reports showed indeed a proven fact that Thailand (being in SouthEast Asia) was a major producer of such drug, being the poppy fields, and were the biggest exporters of such for a long time smuggling it into this country.

Or did you forget the past???????? People are quick to point out the wrongs but simply forget the past that they once were involved with at one time or another.

Yes White Heroin.

Daveyoti

A good % of people was young once and was naive and done some really dum things and regret the actions they took.

White heroin? The CIA used to export white heroin back in the 60's when the Vietnam war was going and made billions of dollors from it. Then they sent the DEA into Thailand to clamp down on it because it was flooding the USA and they couldn't get away with it anymore.

The CIA are the main culprits in the drug war In south east asia. It makes me laugh how the Thia's catch the users or small fry but never seem to catch the king pins, I wonder why that is?

The pot calling the kettle black springs to mind here.

[Lucky_Boy_Farang]

Well if you do the crime, you should do the time. I agree that a Thai jail isnt fun and can be a real ###### on earth but you must know what yype of mess you git in when you got caught. Again, 50 yrs or more is an extreme punishment and I dont agree with it but who am I to say that. You are breaking the law in another country and should face up to their punishment.

Just a small note. If you are really that desperate then there are plenty of easy runs like curacao to holland where you will only get a slap on the risk. Any if you were to be so stupid to do a run then why only takw 120 grams. Go for a kilo then which is an average what they swallow (the drug runners) instead of going for some measely profit/fee.

And the member on this forum who visits some folks in the Bgk Hilton, great inniative. Although I feel that they deserve their punishment, I do feel that its great if someone visits them and thereby makes their lifes a nit better. I would like it if I was stuck their.

I agree with what you're saying about do the crime do the time but only for the likes of that alan bloke, He's 34 and should do the time. But Micheal is 19 and naive and stupid. He is deaf in one ear and has serve learning problems.

And one watch the TV series....The bangkok Hilton? Nicole Kidman? That lad in it reminds me of little big ears.

I'm not going to post about this subject anymore, It seems everyone is happy with thier little lives they lead and couldn't give a monkey what happens to anyone else. I can understand where your all coming from but that is your opinion and I respect that.

Regards.

[Spellbound]

And to Spellbound, let me ask you just one question????? How come Thailand and its neighbors produced so much heroin in the earlier days????????? One was white heroin and the other brown heroin. White is a 1,000 times more pure than the brown and more expensive. It most certainly did not come from USA or from Europe!!!!!!!! South America was no where near being in the picture Heroin wise besides Marijuana which at that time was their main production such as Columbian Gold, Mexican, and Jamaican. The reports showed indeed a proven fact that Thailand (being in SouthEast Asia) was a major producer of such drug, being the poppy fields, and were the biggest exporters of such for a long time smuggling it into this country.

I find totally futile why you waffle on about the type of drug and producers whether past or present. If a law bans a narcotic, then one should respect the law. Laws are made to protect the peoples of the world. Forgetting the past is a human trait; we as a civilised world have to change. If we did not we would still be burning warlocks and witches at the stake. As time goes on in this world of ours we have to become socially acceptable to others of the human race. It is no different than teaching a child the right from wrong, but unfortuneally some people do not want to conform to a social level that is expected. So this is why incarceration was invented to protect the majority of law-abiding people of this world.

Please try to reckon this:- Drug use is not a victimless crime. Drug users commit crimes under the influence of drugs, cause car, plane and train crashes, cause industrial and numerous other accidents — creating unsafe and unhealthy conditions. Drug users destroy families and take rights and freedom from law-abiding citizens. No one has the "personal right" to endanger the health, safety, and well being of others. Public health and welfare far outweigh ones self-interest.

Many drug users commit murder, child and spouse abuse, rape, property damage, assault and other violent crimes under the influence of drugs. Drug users, many of whom are unable to hold jobs, commit robberies not only to obtain drugs, but also to purchase food, shelter, clothing and other goods and services. A proper deterrent will increase awareness that one has to become socially acceptable to others around us. My vote goes to places like the BKK Hilton and similar places.

Ridding the world of drug pushers and producers is impossible because of the wealth drugs produce for these scums. Its unfortunate legalizing drugs will not eliminate illegal trafficking of neither drugs nor the violence associated with the illegal drug trade. A black market would still exist unless all psychoactive and addictive drugs in all strengths were made available to all ages in unlimited quantity at no cost. “Then God / Buddha / Allah etc help us all.” As a study of international drug policy and its effects on countries has shown that countries with lax drug law enforcement have had an increase in drug addiction and crime. Conversely, those with strong drug policies have reduced drug use and enjoy low crime rates.

Yes you may think I am on my soapbox, but when one has been touched personally by the evilness, sadness, lawlessness, and the total disregard that a drug user can bring to ones family maybe just maybe you will understand.

So to this: I say keep the guilty away from the acquiescent persons of the world.

[PD0NVJ]

In my humble opinion I would say good luck for the lady's, and I think they did there time for that small amound of dope.

I hope they can pick up a new start in life and not continue where it stopped 8 years ago, also for the children who has to grow up whitout a mother.

Here in Holland they would send them home the same day fore this amound and I am not saying that this is the right way

But consider what the lord Bhudda said aboud the middle way,compassion and forgiveness, and that's what we should do they served ther time and now it is not reasonable to keep pointing a fingers at them specially because we are no judges and H.M. The King grant them a second chance.

Please be happy for them and whish the women the best life has to offer.

P.S. Spellbound watch out if you come to holland beqause you can smoke pot over here without problems (after the goverment legalized it crime rates dropped significantly) but you will go to jail if you drink and drive that also kills other people, for example small children playing outside and get hit by a car!.

[parryhandy]

Please try to reckon this:- Drug use is not a victimless crime. Drug users commit crimes under the influence of drugs, cause car, plane and train crashes, cause industrial and numerous other accidents — creating unsafe and unhealthy conditions. Drug users destroy families and take rights and freedom from law-abiding citizens. No one has the "personal right" to endanger the health, safety, and well being of others. Public health and welfare far outweigh ones self-interest.

Many drug users commit murder, child and spouse abuse, rape, property damage, assault and other violent crimes under the influence of drugs. Drug users, many of whom are unable to hold jobs, commit robberies not only to obtain drugs, but also to purchase food, shelter, clothing and other goods and services. A proper deterrent will increase awareness that one has to become socially acceptable to others around us. My vote goes to places like the BKK Hilton and similar places.

Ridding the world of drug pushers and producers is impossible because of the wealth drugs produce for these scums. Its unfortunate legalizing drugs will not eliminate illegal trafficking of neither drugs nor the violence associated with the illegal drug trade. A black market would still exist unless all psychoactive and addictive drugs in all strengths were made available to all ages in unlimited quantity at no cost. “Then God / Buddha / Allah etc help us all.” As a study of international drug policy and its effects on countries has shown that countries with lax drug law enforcement have had an increase in drug addiction and crime. Conversely, those with strong drug policies have reduced drug use and enjoy low crime rates.

Yes you may think I am on my soapbox, but when one has been touched personally by the evilness, sadness, lawlessness, and the total disregard that a drug user can bring to ones family maybe just maybe you will understand.

So to this: I say keep the guilty away from the acquiescent persons of the world.

most of the pain and suffering caused by drugs are because they are illegal.Some people are born to self destruct in life , why punish people who can handle drugs in moderation.Surely a person has a right to stick what he or she likes inside them.

When i first read your comments i honestly thought you were talking about ALCOHOL.

[Spellbound]

Surely a person has a right to stick what he or she likes inside them.

When i first read your comments i honestly thought you were talking about ALCOHOL

Sorry Parry, about you ALCOHOL thoughts, but the star of this thread is about narcoctics.

I have only tried to point out that laws are made to protect us, even alcohol has laws attached to it in most countries of the world.

[Lucky_Boy_Farang]

When i first read your comments i honestly thought you were talking about ALCOHOL.

ALCOHOL ABUSE is worse than drugs. Everytime I go out I see drunks fighting, I see people getting glassed, I read in the papers that a drink driver has killed someone but it's legal.

When I see people on 'E' They are loved up and happy, When I see people stoned they are happy and keep saying peace man, Peace!!and these two type of people dont cause any trouble what so ever.

The only reason why drugs arn't legal for is it can't be taxed!

ALCOHOL is the evil drug!!

[PD0NVJ]

When i first read your comments i honestly thought you were talking about ALCOHOL.

ALCOHOL ABUSE is worse than drugs. Everytime I go out I see drunks fighting, I see people getting glassed, I read in the papers that a drink driver has killed someone but it's legal.

When I see people on 'E' They are loved up and happy, When I see people stoned they are happy and keep saying peace man, Peace!!and these two type of people dont cause any trouble what so ever.

The only reason why drugs arn't legal for is it can't be taxed!

ALCOHOL is the evil drug!!

You'r right on this I fully agree with you Lucky_Boy_Farang

[Moving]

I have trouble distinguishing the difference between running drugs, running guns, driving drunk and those that kill innocent people to make religious or political statements.... I find that those that stay continually high or continually drunk are trouble...the majority are headed for the 'porcelain crapper' and unfortunately tend to take others down with them. I do not see those convicted of crimes as victims...there are plenty of victims but not them.

I believe the two losers...whoops, I meant ladies, that have found a way out of the "Bangkok Hilton" should remain right where they are...this would provide them ample opportunity to educate and provide social service and administer to the needs of the 'newbies' just arriving...I also believe that staying where they are could perhaps better the chances of the six children they left behind when they knowingly swallowed the condoms containing the S--T eight years ago...Unknowingly, the Thai legal system may have saved these kids...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The Thai side prescribe the minimum sentence to be served, and under the prisoner exchange agreement between Thailand and Australia, they have to spend that time in jail.

[Spellbound]

Under the terms of the transfer, the women are required to complete another five years of their sentences in Australia.

Dr PP are you right ?

[ChiangMaiThai]

Is it just me or are a lot of memebers extremely vindictive? Of course these girls were stupid. At the same time, they were small time drug addicts and I'm sure not thinking completley logically. They were mere pawns. I never hear any members talking about capturing the guys who are actually producing the stuff and exporting on a mass scale to countries like Thailand for 're-export'. You know, the ones responsible for the problem in the first place...

[tracer0]

Sure the agreement to some extend might be binding, but I would think that once the foreigners do return home anything can happen since they won't be under the control of the foreign country anymore.

****

And thats the most important part. I know a Thai guy who was in jail in Burma. Chickens above the cells..

Acc to a german in Phuket jail, its like Spielbergs movie abouyt the slave trade, I never saw it.

You cannot lie flat on your back, other guys feet likely sticking up your nose.. etc etc.

Taylors in jail as they havent got a visum, passport, workpermit AND not having paid their 1500 baht per month...

They pay, NO PROBLEM, not pay, next day police comes viviting...

Just heard this morning, accountant ripped his customer off, ok as a farang how many papers you sign you cannot read...

Seems the accountant nicked his company and other assets

and essentially told the guy to forget it or else...

Obviously all local farangs know it by now so that Thai guy will get rewarded the Thai way... ok HIS way.

How else.. TIT or WTTLTTF

We treat thais like they treat farangs.

\

PS  Also this might apply to the two english dope heads arrested recently.  They just might only do a 10 ball in Thailand, and then go home, depending on what sentence gets handed down later on.

***

Those guys are dumb, let them dry out.

Ok,

1. I donot use drugs.

2. I donot like them

3. they donot work on me, just make me sleep....

Anyone buying that stuff here is crazy as likely the ones selling it are working for the police...

% for catching, % for other stuff and money they got paid.

I see many times on TV where they show how guys/ladies got caught. NO WAY unless the ones selling knew where it was going to be hidden.

I am not a lady but sure if stuffed a kilo in my inners, I would make damned sure nobody knows.

Obviously 100 gram, why even bother.

One of Thailands ex ministers send a whole container to the USA according to DEA...

[mraitchison]

Having seen many different sides of the law im my short life so far - I always believed in the rhyme - you do the crime you do the time.

if you were in the UK you would have got 6 - 10 years - serve 50% if you are good - the ladies should have had to do the whole hing - I know they have families but so do prisoners all over the world who are serving time for crimes that they have commited. Just because they are media friendly faces and a story to sell papers they were let out.

Send them back - accept your punishment.

[Here Today]

I believe the two losers...whoops, I meant ladies, that have found a way out of the "Bangkok Hilton" should remain right where they are...this would provide them ample opportunity to educate and provide social service and administer to the needs of the 'newbies' just arriving...I also believe that staying where they are could perhaps better the chances of the six children they left behind when they knowingly swallowed the condoms containing the S--T eight years ago...Unknowingly, the Thai legal system may have saved these kids...

I agree with this also, in N. America the social services would have stepped in and apprehended these kids if it was known that their parents were addicts. Most addicts resort to crime to support their habits. Anyone can become addicted but there are many treatment centres and support groups like NA to help them get clean and sober; I have been clean and sober since I went to a treatment centre at the age of 24 myself.