U.s. Social Security Spousal Benefit

[Mekong Bob]

Are you an American expat in Chiang Mai who is drawing U.S. Social Security Retirement Benefits and your spouse is drawing U.S. Social Security Spousal Benefits? (Spouse would need to be 62 years old, but not necessarily with a work history which would make her eligible for her own Retirement Benefit.)

If so, I am interested to know details and your personal experience in applying for this benefit. Thank you.

Can you recommend a local American expat who is knowledgeable about this benefit?

[BarnicaleBob]

If your wife is a U.S. citizen it should be no problem. In that case she only needs to have worked 40 quarters to get the full early benefit at age 62 or if you have been married 10 or more years and she is a citizen she can file on your earnings record.

If she is Thai and has not lived in the U.S. for five or more years and is not a U.S. citizen she is not entitled to any benefit.

[lanny]

If she is Thai and has not lived in the U.S. for five or more years and is not a U.S. citizen she is not entitled to any benefit.

I think you should clarify that little. It is not enough to just live in the US. Those five years must have been while married to you. But they don't have to be consecutive years.

[zippydedodah]

my understanding is that the wife must be a US citizen to collect your benefits outside of the USA... if living inside USA, she only has to be a legal resident.

OTOH... my young daughter is getting child benefits from SS cuz of my retirement and my wife (US citizen, but also a thai) never worked in USA and she does not collect anything.

I believe that when my kid hits maximum age and can no longer collect benefits, that my wife could then collect spousal benefits, at least that is what i remember the officer telling us in SFO before i retired and started pulling my SS benefits.

[mouse]

Unless her Veteran husband died under certain circumstances due to combat injuries she is not eligible. Agent Orange related death makes the widow eligible at age 60 with 5 year rule waived.

[lanny]

my understanding is that the wife must be a US citizen to collect your benefits outside of the USA... if living inside USA, she only has to be a legal resident.

OTOH... my young daughter is getting child benefits from SS cuz of my retirement and my wife (US citizen, but also a thai) never worked in USA and she does not collect anything.

I believe that when my kid hits maximum age and can no longer collect benefits, that my wife could then collect spousal benefits, at least that is what i remember the officer telling us in SFO before i retired and started pulling my SS benefits.

That is not correct! A non-citizen can collect spousal and survivor benefits - if he/she lived in the US, as your spouse, for the necessary 5 years.

Even as a citizen, however, the spouse must be at least 62 to draw any benefits as a spouse. If you have eligible dependents under 18 (I think) a surviving spouse can draw benefits as long as the dependent is under 18.

[hellodolly]

When my ex turned 62 I just took her into the SS office in Linwood Washington. She filled in some papers and started receiving checks. I didn't pay much attention to it but I think she had the divorce papers with her. She was only in there for about 1/2 hour.

She is an American citizen with no real work history in the states. She did not mention that she was living and working in Canada. She just used her mothers address.

You might want to check at the American consulate here in Chiang Mai or the Embassy in Bangkok. It would be advisable to have the marriage certificate with her.

[USNret]

my understanding is that the wife must be a US citizen to collect your benefits outside of the USA... if living inside USA, she only has to be a legal resident.

That is not correct! A non-citizen can collect spousal and survivor benefits - if he/she lived in the US, as your spouse, for the necessary 5 years.

Even as a citizen, however, the spouse must be at least 62 to draw any benefits as a spouse. If you have eligible dependents under 18 (I think) a surviving spouse can draw benefits as long as the dependent is under 18.

Close, but still not quite. I had our financial counselor call the IRS with this exact question when we were on a military base in Japan. My wife has never lived in the States. IRS said when she is 62, she is entitled to spousal benefits regardless of her work history, nationality, or residence. She rates it solely on the basis of her U.S. citizen husband.

[lanny]

my understanding is that the wife must be a US citizen to collect your benefits outside of the USA... if living inside USA, she only has to be a legal resident.

That is not correct! A non-citizen can collect spousal and survivor benefits - if he/she lived in the US, as your spouse, for the necessary 5 years.

Even as a citizen, however, the spouse must be at least 62 to draw any benefits as a spouse. If you have eligible dependents under 18 (I think) a surviving spouse can draw benefits as long as the dependent is under 18.

Close, but still not quite. I had our financial counselor call the IRS with this exact question when we were on a military base in Japan. My wife has never lived in the States. IRS said when she is 62, she is entitled to spousal benefits regardless of her work history, nationality, or residence. She rates it solely on the basis of her U.S. citizen husband.

I'm sorry but the IRS is the wrong agency to contact. The Social Security Administration is not part of the IRS. The IRS is responsible only for collecting social security taxes from taxpayers, they have nothing to do with who gets benefits! Go to www.ssa.gov to see the rules or call the US embassy in Manila (they handle all SSA matters in this part of the world.

[Dante99]

my understanding is that the wife must be a US citizen to collect your benefits outside of the USA... if living inside USA, she only has to be a legal resident.

That is not correct! A non-citizen can collect spousal and survivor benefits - if he/she lived in the US, as your spouse, for the necessary 5 years.

Even as a citizen, however, the spouse must be at least 62 to draw any benefits as a spouse. If you have eligible dependents under 18 (I think) a surviving spouse can draw benefits as long as the dependent is under 18.

Close, but still not quite. I had our financial counselor call the IRS with this exact question when we were on a military base in Japan. My wife has never lived in the States. IRS said when she is 62, she is entitled to spousal benefits regardless of her work history, nationality, or residence. She rates it solely on the basis of her U.S. citizen husband.

USNret,

Is that for all or a special situation just for some military personnel?

[DonaldBattles]

Is there a special benifit for spouses of people who srved in the Korean War provided by the Veterans Administration?

[Mekong Bob]

my understanding is that the wife must be a US citizen to collect your benefits outside of the USA... if living inside USA, she only has to be a legal resident.

OTOH... my young daughter is getting child benefits from SS cuz of my retirement and my wife (US citizen, but also a thai) never worked in USA and she does not collect anything.

I believe that when my kid hits maximum age and can no longer collect benefits, that my wife could then collect spousal benefits, at least that is what i remember the officer telling us in SFO before i retired and started pulling my SS benefits.

That is not correct! A non-citizen can collect spousal and survivor benefits - if he/she lived in the US, as your spouse, for the necessary 5 years.

Even as a citizen, however, the spouse must be at least 62 to draw any benefits as a spouse. If you have eligible dependents under 18 (I think) a surviving spouse can draw benefits as long as the dependent is under 18.

Thank you, Lanny, for clarifying the US citizenship issue: a non-USA citizen spouse can collect spousal and survival benefits.

Your ex-spouse (any nationality) can also qualify for spousal benefits when she reaches 62, and this does not cost the primary earner a penny. Nor does it require the primary to initiate, authorize, or sign any forms. At 62 (or older), the ex-spouse simply documents her marriage, applies for Spousal Benefits.

[Langsuan Man]

Already covered extensively here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/601054-regarding-us-social-security-benefits-for-my-thai-wife-after-i-die/?hl=%2Bus+%2Bsocial+%2Bsecurity+%2Bbenefits#entry6192688

[retiredaamt]

You may contact the Social security Office in Manila, Philippines. Their email address is [email protected], or call them at +63 2 301 2000, ext. 9. They are located inside the U.S. Embassy in Manila. Their civil address is:

Social Security Administration

United States Embassy Manila

1201 Roxas Blvd.

Ermita, 0930 Manila, Philippines

[Mekong Bob]

Already covered extensively here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/601054-regarding-us-social-security-benefits-for-my-thai-wife-after-i-die/?hl=%2Bus+%2Bsocial+%2Bsecurity+%2Bbenefits#entry6192688

Interesting info regarding Survivor Benefits and Disability Benefits on the thread cited above, but there's nothing on Spousal Benefits.

[hml367]

Lawful Presence Payment Provisions
https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0300204010

Number 3 links to:

Alien Non-Payment Provisions https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0302610000

go to :
RS 02610.025 5 Year Residency Requirement for Alien Dependents/Survivors Outside the United States (U.S.)
https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0302610025

Mae Naam Kong Bob,

If you are looking for information I would suggest contacting SSA rather than using an expat for advice. Surely there must be some expats which would have experience. What could happen is a breakdown in understanding or communicating.

MSPain

Edited May 6, 2013 by hml367

[Mekong Bob]

Lawful Presence Payment Provisions

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0300204010

Number 3 links to:

Alien Non-Payment Provisions https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0302610000

go to :

RS 02610.025 5 Year Residency Requirement for Alien Dependents/Survivors Outside the United States (U.S.)

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0302610025

Mae Naam Kong Bob,

If you are looking for information I would suggest contacting SSA rather than using an expat for advice. Surely there must be some expats which would have experience. What could happen is a breakdown in understanding or communicating.

MSPain

Yes, I will do that. Thanks!

[kennedy]

Listen to Lanny, he knows what he is talking about.

[hellodolly]

Lawful Presence Payment Provisions

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0300204010

Number 3 links to:

Alien Non-Payment Provisions https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0302610000

go to :

RS 02610.025 5 Year Residency Requirement for Alien Dependents/Survivors Outside the United States (U.S.)

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0302610025

Mae Naam Kong Bob,

If you are looking for information I would suggest contacting SSA rather than using an expat for advice. Surely there must be some expats which would have experience. What could happen is a breakdown in understanding or communicating.

MSPain

Yes, I will do that. Thanks!

Get it in writing.

I was told verbally when I went in to talk to them one thing. When it came time to collect it was no where near the figure they had given me it was well below the given figure. I contacted them three times once by phone once I went into their office and once by e mail. I was at no time impolite. Each contact resulted in the same thing. I was told that it says this figure. I kindly said yes I know that but that was not the figure given to me on my application. To which they replied that they could do nothing about it.

Years later my brother in law a CPA told me there was a program to fix it. He looked into and said that it had been discontinued.

One must remember that they are dealing with bureaucrats and get it in writing.

[NancyL]

We have found the SSA office in Manila [email protected] to be very helpful and responsive to email inquiries. We do all our business with them by email -- to provide documentation, as suggested by HelloDolly.

[BB1955]

my understanding is that the wife must be a US citizen to collect your benefits outside of the USA... if living inside USA, she only has to be a legal resident.

That is not correct! A non-citizen can collect spousal and survivor benefits - if he/she lived in the US, as your spouse, for the necessary 5 years.

Even as a citizen, however, the spouse must be at least 62 to draw any benefits as a spouse. If you have eligible dependents under 18 (I think) a surviving spouse can draw benefits as long as the dependent is under 18.

Close, but still not quite. I had our financial counselor call the IRS with this exact question when we were on a military base in Japan. My wife has never lived in the States. IRS said when she is 62, she is entitled to spousal benefits regardless of her work history, nationality, or residence. She rates it solely on the basis of her U.S. citizen husband.

I checked before I left the USA . If she did not reside with you in the USA for 5 years as your wife she is out of luck . I was advised by Social Security in the USA and then confirmed it with the office in Manila . My wife did work in the USA those 5 years but did not reach the 40 quarters needed . She can collect nothing at 62 if I am alive . If I die when she reaches age 60 she can collect survivor benefits based on my contributions even if she is residing in Thailand and that is only if she does not re marriy before reaching 60 . After 60 she can marry whoever wants her and still collect ... It is possible that if you were on a miltary base that would count as being in the USA , That I would hope would be correct but I did not check that ...

[Mekong Bob]

my understanding is that the wife must be a US citizen to collect your benefits outside of the USA... if living inside USA, she only has to be a legal resident.

OTOH... my young daughter is getting child benefits from SS cuz of my retirement and my wife (US citizen, but also a thai) never worked in USA and she does not collect anything.

I believe that when my kid hits maximum age and can no longer collect benefits, that my wife could then collect spousal benefits, at least that is what i remember the officer telling us in SFO before i retired and started pulling my SS benefits.

That is not correct! A non-citizen can collect spousal and survivor benefits - if he/she lived in the US, as your spouse, for the necessary 5 years.

Even as a citizen, however, the spouse must be at least 62 to draw any benefits as a spouse. If you have eligible dependents under 18 (I think) a surviving spouse can draw benefits as long as the dependent is under 18.

Thank you, Lanny, for clarifying the US citizenship issue: a non-USA citizen spouse can collect spousal and survival benefits.

Your ex-spouse (any nationality) can also qualify for spousal benefits when she reaches 62, and this does not cost the primary earner a penny. Nor does it require the primary to initiate, authorize, or sign any forms. At 62 (or older), the ex-spouse simply documents her marriage, applies for Spousal Benefits.

Looks like a spouse (or ex-spouse) needs to qualify for the Spousal Benefits in 3 ways: (1) 62 years of age; (2) married to the primary beneficiary (husband) for at least 5 years; and(3) resided in USA, married to that husband for at least 5 years. Is this right, so far?

The qualifying spouse need not be a U.S. citizen, nor does she need to be a U.S. resident in order to receive these monthly checks. Ideally, however, this spouse should maintain a permanent mailing address and bank account in the USA - a place where these Spousal Benefit checks can be sent by Social Security. Any bank in USA can transfer monies to Bangkok Bank's New York Office for wire transfers to a Bangkok Bank account in Thailand.

The spouse need not have a work history in the USA, or paid into Social Security, in order to qualify for Spousal Benefits. These benefits are based solely on the primary beneficiary's lifetime earnings and Social Security contributions - it's his Retirement Benefits, not hers.

Hope this is correct, and helpful to some.

[NancyL]

We have found the SSA office in Manila [email protected] to be very helpful and responsive to email inquiries. We do all our business with them by email -- to provide documentation, as suggested by HelloDolly.

Oopsie, that's [email protected] Sorry for the confusion!

[NancyL]

my understanding is that the wife must be a US citizen to collect your benefits outside of the USA... if living inside USA, she only has to be a legal resident.

OTOH... my young daughter is getting child benefits from SS cuz of my retirement and my wife (US citizen, but also a thai) never worked in USA and she does not collect anything.

I believe that when my kid hits maximum age and can no longer collect benefits, that my wife could then collect spousal benefits, at least that is what i remember the officer telling us in SFO before i retired and started pulling my SS benefits.

That is not correct! A non-citizen can collect spousal and survivor benefits - if he/she lived in the US, as your spouse, for the necessary 5 years.

Even as a citizen, however, the spouse must be at least 62 to draw any benefits as a spouse. If you have eligible dependents under 18 (I think) a surviving spouse can draw benefits as long as the dependent is under 18.

Thank you, Lanny, for clarifying the US citizenship issue: a non-USA citizen spouse can collect spousal and survival benefits.

Your ex-spouse (any nationality) can also qualify for spousal benefits when she reaches 62, and this does not cost the primary earner a penny. Nor does it require the primary to initiate, authorize, or sign any forms. At 62 (or older), the ex-spouse simply documents her marriage, applies for Spousal Benefits.

Looks like a spouse (or ex-spouse) needs to qualify for the Spousal Benefits in 3 ways: (1) 62 years of age; (2) married to the primary beneficiary (husband) for at least 5 years; and(3) resided in USA, married to that husband for at least 5 years. Is this right, so far?

The qualifying spouse need not be a U.S. citizen, nor does she need to be a U.S. resident in order to receive these monthly checks. Ideally, however, this spouse should maintain a permanent mailing address and bank account in the USA - a place where these Spousal Benefit checks can be sent by Social Security. Any bank in USA can transfer monies to Bangkok Bank's New York Office for wire transfers to a Bangkok Bank account in Thailand.

The spouse need not have a work history in the USA, or paid into Social Security, in order to qualify for Spousal Benefits. These benefits are based solely on the primary beneficiary's lifetime earnings and Social Security contributions - it's his Retirement Benefits, not hers.

Hope this is correct, and helpful to some.

I'd suggest contacting SSA directly about the need for the spouse to have a U.S. address or bank account. If it's not necessary for the beneficiary to have either, then I have trouble understanding why they require this of the spouse.