Land Transport Dept To Crack Down On Fare-Cheating Taxi Drivers

[MaxYakov]

Quote from Article (edited to avoid over-nesting of quote blocks):

He also urged passengers to avoid using the services of cabs equipped with smaller sized wheels...

Are we now supposed to check whether taxis have 15" or 12" radials? Are the meters "set" for a certain radius of tire? Do smaller wheels have to rotate more thus clocking the meter at a higher rate? Lots of unanswered Qs!

not really basic physics if a wheel is smaller it will have to rotate more to cover the same distance.

That part is pretty obvious, the big question is if the taxi meters have the electronics to compensate for that?

And if that is possible, it is necessary to make sure the meters are adjusted when the owner installs smaller wheels.

Instead of having meters capable of adjustment and which require checking, why not have GPS based meters linked to Google maps which give a fare based on the shortest possible route? If my phone can do it, why not a taxi meter?

Shortest geo distance may not equate to the lowest fare due to other factors. The rally savvy drivers can do shortcuts to avoid traffic, long lights, etc. My first taxi in Bangkok claimed to have GPS, but he could not explain to me how it was used. He got lost and had to call the main office because he was not familiar with or knew how to get to Sukumvit Soi 3/1 (who is?). In any event, here's a related four-year-old TV thread re GPS in taxis:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/258702-do-taximeter-taxis-have-gps/

[craigt3365]

You do have em - I've seen them lounging around the back of Central Shopping World steadfastly refusing to use their meters.

HA! Exactly why I don't call them "metered" taxis!

[kruangfaifar]

No doubt good idea, but what about cracking down on ones who do not use meter at all?

The way that I deal with taxis who don't want to use a meter is to change to another one. I deal with taxis with "fixed" meters which does happen, although very rarely in my experience, is to take a photo of their licence which usually causes them to negotiate a fair price for the journey in a hurry. Having said that most drivers that I encounter are decent people who make very little money.

[bendywire]

The taxi drivers supported the PTP in the last election. Since than the inflation rate has increased, but the meter fare is still 35 baht. Is this the war the government takes care of their supporters. This is another example that politicians can not be trusted. It makes no difference which party or which country. If a politicians lips move they are lying. The recent election in the USA is a good example, promise jobs, and expansion in roads and bridges, nothing done. Politicians never take responsibility for their actions, when it fails blame Bush.

So just because politicians lie that makes it ok to rip off customers when they get into a taxi then? Regardless of who they voted for they have regulations to follow and if they fail to follow those rules they get what they deserve if they are caught and the key word here is IF.

[Just1Voice]

He also urged passengers to avoid using the services of cabs equipped with smaller sized wheels...

Are we now supposed to check whether taxis have 15" or 12" radials? Are the meters "set" for a certain radius of tire? Do smaller wheels have to rotate more thus clocking the meter at a higher rate? Lots of unanswered Qs!

Are the meters "set" for a certain radius of tire? Do smaller wheels have to rotate more thus clocking the meter at a higher rate? - Yes

[TackyToo]

Thanks for this wonderful revealing report! I must admit, I did not realise if this was a crack down or a hub day. Now I feel better!

[stoli]

He also urged passengers to avoid using the services of cabs equipped with smaller sized wheels...

Are we now supposed to check whether taxis have 15" or 12" radials? Are the meters "set" for a certain radius of tire? Do smaller wheels have to rotate more thus clocking the meter at a higher rate? Lots of unanswered Qs!

Free answers! First, yes altering the wheel diameter to smaller would alter the gear ratio for the speedometer/odometer (and hence the fare meter) because the smaller wheel has to rotate more often to cover a set distance.

For standard 15" wheels fitted with 195/70 tyres, dropping to 195/60 would reduce the diameter 195mm x 10% (change in tyre aspect ratio) x 2 = 39mm. Wheel and tyre diameter = 381mm (15") + (195 x 0.7) x 2 = 654mm so percentage change = 39/654 = 6%

A narrower tyre on the same rim would have a larger effect, but for something a bit more radical, lets assume the cab is retro-fitted with 14" wheels and narrower tyres, say 175/60. The diameter becomes 356mm + (175 x 0.60) x 2 = 356 + 210 = 566 and the percentage change (654 - 566) / 654 = 13.5%

A narrower tire would have the same radius as a fatter tire. No difference. Thanks for all of the numbers though.

[BuddyPinkham]

because they don't have enough officials, they now want people to police them? The first time (or any time for that matter) a foreigner makes a complaint, it is brushed off.

[judokrab]

Crackdown of the week becomes the joke of the week, Thailand has as much control over the taxis as it does over the police....and we all know how that goes.

What about taxis being driven by off-duty policemen?

Had them too. No meter. The old "pay me whatever you like" trick.

[judokrab]

He also urged passengers to avoid using the services of cabs equipped with smaller sized wheels...

Are we now supposed to check whether taxis have 15" or 12" radials? Are the meters "set" for a certain radius of tire? Do smaller wheels have to rotate more thus clocking the meter at a higher rate? Lots of unanswered Qs!

Free answers! First, yes altering the wheel diameter to smaller would alter the gear ratio for the speedometer/odometer (and hence the fare meter) because the smaller wheel has to rotate more often to cover a set distance.

For standard 15" wheels fitted with 195/70 tyres, dropping to 195/60 would reduce the diameter 195mm x 10% (change in tyre aspect ratio) x 2 = 39mm. Wheel and tyre diameter = 381mm (15") + (195 x 0.7) x 2 = 654mm so percentage change = 39/654 = 6%

A narrower tyre on the same rim would have a larger effect, but for something a bit more radical, lets assume the cab is retro-fitted with 14" wheels and narrower tyres, say 175/60. The diameter becomes 356mm + (175 x 0.60) x 2 = 356 + 210 = 566 and the percentage change (654 - 566) / 654 = 13.5%

Well, it's actually the circumference © that is relevant for road distance - not the diameter (D).

(But as C = π * D, there is a constant relationship between C and D, so the percentage differences are the same.)

[MarkCyr]

I'm not sure how people can tell for sure about dodgy meters. In Manila when I take a taxi to the same place every week, I know when somebody has messed with the meter because it's much higher than usual. But how can you prove it? Anyway, this is a step in the right direction.

And to the post writing about the baht bus mafia in Pattaya...just so people not familiar with Pattaya don't get the wrong idea, the baht buses (song taeow) cost 10 baht no matter where you go. They're awesome.So in general, it's nothing to worry about. BUT, if you ask one to take you someplace...ie, if you hire them to take just you, then they will gouge you. But in general, they are cheap, they run 24 hours, and they rarely give you problems.

[beautifulthailand99]

Just come over from the 51 pager Jet Ski Scam thread - this one looks like it will run and run as well. Part of Thailand's corrupt DNA.

[hawker9000]

He also urged passengers to avoid using the services of cabs equipped with smaller sized wheels...

Are we now supposed to check whether taxis have 15" or 12" radials? Are the meters "set" for a certain radius of tire? Do smaller wheels have to rotate more thus clocking the meter at a higher rate? Lots of unanswered Qs!

Free answers! First, yes altering the wheel diameter to smaller would alter the gear ratio for the speedometer/odometer (and hence the fare meter) because the smaller wheel has to rotate more often to cover a set distance.

For standard 15" wheels fitted with 195/70 tyres, dropping to 195/60 would reduce the diameter 195mm x 10% (change in tyre aspect ratio) x 2 = 39mm. Wheel and tyre diameter = 381mm (15") + (195 x 0.7) x 2 = 654mm so percentage change = 39/654 = 6%

A narrower tyre on the same rim would have a larger effect, but for something a bit more radical, lets assume the cab is retro-fitted with 14" wheels and narrower tyres, say 175/60. The diameter becomes 356mm + (175 x 0.60) x 2 = 356 + 210 = 566 and the percentage change (654 - 566) / 654 = 13.5%

A narrower tire would have the same radius as a fatter tire. No difference. Thanks for all of the numbers though.

I don't think he's talking about a narrower tread. The two things he's talking about are (1) use of a different & smaller wheel; (2) use of same wheel but with a tire with a smaller sidewall. Both cases amount to a smaller overall radius >> more rotations to cover a given distance.

[OzMick]

He also urged passengers to avoid using the services of cabs equipped with smaller sized wheels...

Are we now supposed to check whether taxis have 15" or 12" radials? Are the meters "set" for a certain radius of tire? Do smaller wheels have to rotate more thus clocking the meter at a higher rate? Lots of unanswered Qs!

Free answers! First, yes altering the wheel diameter to smaller would alter the gear ratio for the speedometer/odometer (and hence the fare meter) because the smaller wheel has to rotate more often to cover a set distance.

For standard 15" wheels fitted with 195/70 tyres, dropping to 195/60 would reduce the diameter 195mm x 10% (change in tyre aspect ratio) x 2 = 39mm. Wheel and tyre diameter = 381mm (15") + (195 x 0.7) x 2 = 654mm so percentage change = 39/654 = 6%

A narrower tyre on the same rim would have a larger effect, but for something a bit more radical, lets assume the cab is retro-fitted with 14" wheels and narrower tyres, say 175/60. The diameter becomes 356mm + (175 x 0.60) x 2 = 356 + 210 = 566 and the percentage change (654 - 566) / 654 = 13.5%

A narrower tire would have the same radius as a fatter tire. No difference. Thanks for all of the numbers though.

Not so! the first number in a tyre designation is the width in mm, the second is the sidewall height as a percentage of the width, followed by a letter for speed rating, and then the rim diameter in inches.

[Robby nz]

Never actually come across one of these cheating taxi drivers, always had a good deal and only once come across one who refused to use the meter, said no thank you and got the next one that came along.

Last trip was long distance, 140km from airport at night and was 300 b cheaper than we expected, got out and helped carry the bags into the house, yea good service.

Makes me wonder how many of these posts are of the 'someone told me' variety

[OzMick]

Never actually come across one of these cheating taxi drivers, always had a good deal and only once come across one who refused to use the meter, said no thank you and got the next one that came along.

Last trip was long distance, 140km from airport at night and was 300 b cheaper than we expected, got out and helped carry the bags into the house, yea good service.

Makes me wonder how many of these posts are of the 'someone told me' variety

Ummm.........it's been a while since i used a taxi in BKK, but they used to have a card with set prices for long distances which is cheaper than using the meter.

[Robby nz]

That's right Mick a lot of them do but in this case he quoted us a price before we set off which was below what we had paid (card price) on previous trips.

[captspectre]

No doubt good idea, but what about cracking down on ones who do not use meter at all?

if you get into a taxi and he does not turn on the meter, who's fault is that?

[newermonkey]

This is akin to saying "Crack down on the Thai character" perhaps Thailand could also become the hub of "crack downs"

I generally question the character of someone who will live among people whom he holds in such low esteem. Furthermore it is rare to find one who will pass such universal judgement that is not delusional about his own moral excellence. Never trust them.

"Never trust them" Are you referring to me or the Thai people? if the latter I would agree with you but if you are referring to moi then I take it you are a newbie to the land of smirks. I have lived in Thailand for 35 years and I know Thai nature and culture a whole lot more that you do. I am not at all perfect but I am not a liar or a thief and I have a generous heart. My advice to a naive character such as yourself, is "be warned" - When you least expect it you will be ripped off lied to and spat out without a thread of compassion.

[Monkeyrobot]

He also urged passengers to avoid using the services of cabs equipped with smaller sized wheels...

Are we now supposed to check whether taxis have 15" or 12" radials? Are the meters "set" for a certain radius of tire? Do smaller wheels have to rotate more thus clocking the meter at a higher rate? Lots of unanswered Qs!

Free answers! First, yes altering the wheel diameter to smaller would alter the gear ratio for the speedometer/odometer (and hence the fare meter) because the smaller wheel has to rotate more often to cover a set distance.

For standard 15" wheels fitted with 195/70 tyres, dropping to 195/60 would reduce the diameter 195mm x 10% (change in tyre aspect ratio) x 2 = 39mm. Wheel and tyre diameter = 381mm (15") + (195 x 0.7) x 2 = 654mm so percentage change = 39/654 = 6%

A narrower tyre on the same rim would have a larger effect, but for something a bit more radical, lets assume the cab is retro-fitted with 14" wheels and narrower tyres, say 175/60. The diameter becomes 356mm + (175 x 0.60) x 2 = 356 + 210 = 566 and the percentage change (654 - 566) / 654 = 13.5%

Does that mean the tyres wear faster the smaller they are? say by 13% .

[Monkeyrobot]

I have been at swampy twice this year and both times after I get in the taxi and he heads to BKK out of the airport the driver says 500Baht, have any of you TV members had this happen? From now on I will ask for bpert meter before I get in.

[OzMick]

He also urged passengers to avoid using the services of cabs equipped with smaller sized wheels...

Are we now supposed to check whether taxis have 15" or 12" radials? Are the meters "set" for a certain radius of tire? Do smaller wheels have to rotate more thus clocking the meter at a higher rate? Lots of unanswered Qs!

Free answers! First, yes altering the wheel diameter to smaller would alter the gear ratio for the speedometer/odometer (and hence the fare meter) because the smaller wheel has to rotate more often to cover a set distance.

For standard 15" wheels fitted with 195/70 tyres, dropping to 195/60 would reduce the diameter 195mm x 10% (change in tyre aspect ratio) x 2 = 39mm. Wheel and tyre diameter = 381mm (15") + (195 x 0.7) x 2 = 654mm so percentage change = 39/654 = 6%

A narrower tyre on the same rim would have a larger effect, but for something a bit more radical, lets assume the cab is retro-fitted with 14" wheels and narrower tyres, say 175/60. The diameter becomes 356mm + (175 x 0.60) x 2 = 356 + 210 = 566 and the percentage change (654 - 566) / 654 = 13.5%

Does that mean the tyres wear faster the smaller they are? say by 13% .

Yes. Larger diameter wheels also get fewer punctures and damage from potholes, and on a motorcycle give much more gyroscopic stability (the factor is the square of the radius).

To prove this place a small obstacle (say a matchstick) on the table and try rolling a drink can and a 1.25l bottle over it. Much less pressure is required for the bottle.

[belg]

accelerating the fare meter... happend to me a few times, same distange, same route, no traffic and fare going from 75 to 110 for the same ride

but how will they inforce in the land of smile and do nothing?

i even had taxi drivers masking their taxi licence card, no card at all or just the card of someone else

how and where will you go complain then ? taxi driver, to the nearest police station please...

[MaxYakov]

I have been at swampy twice this year and both times after I get in the taxi and he heads to BKK out of the airport the driver says 500Baht, have any of you TV members had this happen? From now on I will ask for bpert meter before I get in.

Yeah, on my first trip to Bangkok, when they assigned naive tourists to taxis at a desk. I think I paid 600 baht. At least I didn't fall for the BMW limo ploy.

[MaxLee]

We will crack you down for a couple if days... so next time, don't get caught, okay...???

[Sayonarax]

The taxi drivers supported the PTP in the last election. Since than the inflation rate has increased, but the meter fare is still 35 baht. Is this the war the government takes care of their supporters. This is another example that politicians can not be trusted. It makes no difference which party or which country. If a politicians lips move they are lying. The recent election in the USA is a good example, promise jobs, and expansion in roads and bridges, nothing done. Politicians never take responsibility for their actions, when it fails blame Bush.

you love that lips are moving quote

[winstonc]

Tips to avoid problems with taxi drivers

MONTHIEN INTHAKET,

TANPISIT LERDBAMRUNGCHAI

THE NATION

Cabbies will be closely monitored, police promise

BANGKOK: -- People who ride in taxis should use technology to protect them from drivers with bad intentions, police say following reports of cabbies attacking passengers, notably women.

The Department of Land Trans-port (DLT) also plans to ask for faster access to the police criminal database when assessing applications for public transport licences. This would help ensure drivers have no criminal record or have not been in prison for at least two years.

Land Transport chief Somchai Siriwattanachok said officials would discuss how they could access the police database and how much detail they can obtain. For cabbies who commit crimes, their public transport licences could be revoked immediately, if the department was given a court order or a police report of a suspect confessing to a crime.

Pol Lt-Colonel Anchulee Theera-wongpaisal, deputy National Police spokeswoman, said police would set up checkpoints to search for weapons and stop taxis more often to see if drivers display clearly their name and licence number.

"Crimes can be prevented by precaution. People, especially women, should study their route so they can get out when they see the taxi taking a detour. If you don't know the way, you shouldn't take a cab, especially at night, as it's too risky. Remember the taxi's registration number from the information card or use your cam phone to take a picture and send it to friends," she said.

National Police spokesman Pol Maj-General Piya Uthayo said: "There are many good cabbies and only a few criminals, so garages should watch out and exchange information among themselves, as well as coordinate with the DLT to apply technologies such as GPS to track taxis, so people are more confident."

Phattheera Kanpakdee, 26, a state employee, said she used cabs a lot when she was a student because her classes ended at 9pm. But now she only takes one when necessary. If she has to hail a cab at night, she asks a friend to go along. She sits behind the driver, reads the taxi's licence plate number and information and even sneaks pictures when the cabbie isn't looking. She never dozes off, always observes the driver's behaviour and chats with friends on the phone about where she is.

Hotel employee Pattama Daeng-sem, 26, said since she left home early - at 4am - to go to work and finishes late, so she opted to travel in commuter vans. Once she was almost molested by a van driver, but managed to stall him by talking and offering valuable items and then discreetly calling her boyfriend to alert police. Since then she has asked for a different shift to go home earlier and has her mum give her a lift to work in the morning.

This is the first in a two-part series, the second of which will be published tomorrow.

-- The Nation 2013-05-08

"The Department of Land Trans-port (DLT) also plans to ask for faster

access to the police criminal database when assessing applications for

public transport licences. This would help ensure drivers have no

criminal record or have not been in prison for at least two years"

Am I missing some thing here So if a person had been in prison three years ago would he not have a criminal record?

"Crimes can be prevented by precaution. People, especially women,

should study their route so they can get out when they see the taxi

taking a detour. If you don't know the way, you shouldn't take a cab,

especially at night, as it's too risky. Remember the taxi's registration

number from the information card or use your cam phone to take a

picture and send it to friends,"

Kind of like saying if you are a first time tourist don't take a taxi. Even second or third time tourist if you are in different parts of the city.

More useful tips:

1. never accept a taxi that is parked; only flag one that is in motion

2. speak Thai, try to chat a bit if they are chatty... engage. Make them laugh and tell them how much you like Thai food and Thai people; never talk politics; always agree with them

3. be compassionate. these guys get stuck in traffic more often then we do. imagine how you might feel in their situation

4. when flagging the taxi, try to give them the district. For example say "klong ton" then add Pridi 16 (which means soi 16 in sukumvit soi 71). they think in terms of districts first then specifics.

5. remember the original flag fall was 35 baht IN 1996 WHEN THEY STARTED USING METERS! The only increase has been to mileage.

6. avoid getting a taxi in lower sukumvit or upper silom at night.

7. do not antagonize or be aggressive. many taxi drivers carry weapons under the seat. remember the propensity of the Thai male to explode with weapons for mass destruction.

8. study the meters. watch how they add Baht while in motion, or at rest. understand the math involved. I do and more than a few times I have found meters that charge more than is accurate. Never point this out to the cabbie.

9. dont bother to report anything. remember the capacity of the governing body that manages meter taxis. they have allowed far too many taxis on the roads, have not raised fares in line with cost of living, and are completely useless.

10. develop a sense of gratitude and your life will improve. nothing outside needs to change. its magic

or better still take a train,,,or walk most of us could with a bit more excersize anyway,,,,,,,,