Good Afternoon All,

I have a partnership with my Thai wife, our wholesale business is Thai-Thai, so having supplied the capital, there is very little actual work for me to do other than risk management, English language product research & looking after the office in my wife's absence. Currently, the Labour Dept is starting to ask more questions as we only need 2 Thai employees & this may become a problem for renewing my work permit, & so for obtaining future Non-B Multi's.

Though it would be inconvenient not to be able to look after the office in my wife's absence, if the Work Permit can't be renewed without paying for 2 surplus employees, in a worst case scenario, would it be possible for me to “retire”, & as I'm only 39, switch to a Non-O Marriage Visa, & for our partnership to pay me the required 40,000 month
as a dividend or profit share ?

Many Thanks in Advance

Best Regards

Andy S

Immigration order 305/2551 only defines requirement as below so may be accepted if tax payment made as income. But they may require a work permit show for income - not sure on that.

5. Only for Criteria (5) and (6), the applicant must attach a funds deposit certificate issued by a

bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook, or attach documents proving that the parents or alien

husband earns an average monthly income of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the year, such as

any particular individual income tax return together with payment receipt, evidence of receiving

retirement pension, evidence of receiving interest from funds deposit, or evidence of having other

funds issued by the relevant agency. An affidavit must also be submitted confirming the alien’s

marital or parental status with a Thai national.

You can also get an extension of stay from immigration based on your marriage by simply showing 400,000 baht in a bank account in Thailand in your name for 2 months.

Thank-you very much indeed gentlemen for the prompt responses:

@lopburi3 - Many thanks for the quotation - I would hope that it would class as investment income from private shares, & so no different to owning publicly listed dividend shares.

@Mario2008 - Thank-you - Point taken

We hope the business will soon grow to fulfil the requirements of 4 Thai employees - but I've a horrible feeling that I may lose my work permit for a year or two before we achieve this happy state of affairs, & forking out 250,000 odd a year for surplus staff seems a suboptimal solution.

Many Thanks Again

Best Regards

Andy S

Not to suggest that you do something which is probably illegal but just for your information many visa agents/lawyers are happy to provide phantom employees for which I understand the client company only needs to pay social security, not salary.

Not to suggest that you do something which is probably illegal but just for your information many visa agents/lawyers are happy to provide phantom employees for which I understand the client company only needs to pay social security, not salary.

Immigration/labour sometimes visits the work place to check if the people are really working there.

Do you mean that you have a limited company with your wife, rather than a partnership? It is very hard to obtain a WP to work for a small unregistered partnership but limited partnerships with proper businesses can more easily obtain WPs. You also say it is Thai-Thai which implies you are not a legal owner of the business at all. If it is a limited company, you can be a shareholder and receive dividends without a WP but, if it is a partnership, all partners are deemed to be working and need WPs, if foreigners. Companies can pay dividends but partnerships pay salaries and profit share only.

Anyway it sounds as if the simplest solution is to switch to a NON-IMM O-A visa with extensions based on marriage by showing Bt 400k and not bothering with trying to show income. That still gives you the option to get WPs without having to deal with the nastiness of Immigration in getting extensions to a NON-=IMM B visa. The bad news is that you now need to show the 4 Thai employees to the Labour Ministry too for WP renewal. If you don't need a WP for other reasons, then you can just use extensions based on marriage with minimum hassle.

Not to suggest that you do something which is probably illegal but just for your information many visa agents/lawyers are happy to provide phantom employees for which I understand the client company only needs to pay social security, not salary.

Immigration/labour sometimes visits the work place to check if the people are really working there.

The SSO can also visit the work place to check that workers registered for social security are really employed there.

Anyway it sounds as if the simplest solution is to switch to a NON-IMM O-A visa with extensions based on marriage by showing Bt 400k and not bothering with trying to show income.

Non immigrant O visa - the O-A is for retirement from home country.

work permit, & so for obtaining future Non-B Multi's

Have you been getting non-b visas instead of non-o based upon marriage to a Thai? You can get a work permit on a non-o visa or an extension of stay based upon marriage. For the extension you would only need to show 40K baht income proven by tax payments and your work permit.

Why do you think you are going to have problems getting your work permit with only 2 Thai employees. The rules allow for work permit if married to a Thai with only 2 Thai employees and 1 million baht registered capital.

Again, thank-you very much indeed for the kind responses:

@Arkady- To clarify:

- By "Thai-Thai" I was attempting to convey that our current business has solely Thai customers & so only requires Thai staff day to day

- I have a registered Ordinary Partnership with my wife - it has registered capital of B2m, it is not a "Limited" liability partnership

- I have been getting Non Imm-B visas based on a Work Permit from the Partnership. As it has been working fairly smoothly for the last 6 years since before we were married, I was loath to risk any changes.

- Currently I'm preparing for the worst as multiple sources & personal experience suggest that Thailand is attempting to obligate people to go the higher-income-&-more-employee extension of stay route, through making multi-entry visas increasingly hard to get & the Labour dept require a 1 year visa for a 1 year work permit (at least ours does)

- I'd been advised by two separate lawyers that our Partnership is a legal entity allowing minority non-controlling ownership of businesses (& land), so long as the company actually does business & pays tax. As I have always had a Work Permit & worked for the Partnership, I'd never had cause to consider that I had to have a work permit to maintain my Partnership shareholding.

So sounds like the worst case scenario is that I go the Non-O Marriage visa extension route based on 400K deposit, & consult a lawyer WRT converting the Partnership into a Limited Company.

Very many thanks again for your time & contributions

Best Regards

Andy S

work permit, & so for obtaining future Non-B Multi's

Have you been getting non-b visas instead of non-o based upon marriage to a Thai? You can get a work permit on a non-o visa or an extension of stay based upon marriage. For the extension you would only need to show 40K baht income proven by tax payments and your work permit.

Why do you think you are going to have problems getting your work permit with only 2 Thai employees. The rules allow for work permit if married to a Thai with only 2 Thai employees and 1 million baht registered capital.

Can you cite any source for only needing 2 Thai employees if married to a Thai? The 1 million registered capital is clearly stated in the regulations but I can find no reference to the discounted number of employees. I have searched through the DOE's website www.doe.go.th in Thai and can find two references to 4 Thai employees per WP: 1) in the "Principles of issuing WPs" section which cites having 4 Thais to 1 alien as an example of how to prioritise jobs for Thais; and 2) in the Q & A section where it cites the Immigration regulation of 4 Thais to 1 alien as relevant legislation that should be taken into account in considering WP applications.

Neither of these references actually says 4 Thai employees are mandatory and there is no reference to a discount to those married to a Thai and the specific reference to PRs not needing any Thai employees that was in the previous regulations is gone completely.

I went to the DOE a few months ago to query this and was told the priority for Thais concept introduced in the 2008 Working of Aliens Act is currently interpreted as meaning that 4 Thai employees are needed for all regular WPs, unless the company can come up with a good reason in writing to have less. Even then, a waiver may only be given for one year. He told me there were no privileges for PRs any more and that the only privilege for those married to Thais was the 1 million registered capital. Was he wrong? I hope so but am not optimistic.

Edited May 9, 201313 yr by Arkady

Again, thank-you very much indeed for the kind responses:

@Arkady- To clarify:

- By "Thai-Thai" I was attempting to convey that our current business has solely Thai customers & so only requires Thai staff day to day

- I have a registered Ordinary Partnership with my wife - it has registered capital of B2m, it is not a "Limited" liability partnership

- I have been getting Non Imm-B visas based on a Work Permit from the Partnership. As it has been working fairly smoothly for the last 6 years since before we were married, I was loath to risk any changes.

- Currently I'm preparing for the worst as multiple sources & personal experience suggest that Thailand is attempting to obligate people to go the higher-income-&-more-employee extension of stay route, through making multi-entry visas increasingly hard to get & the Labour dept require a 1 year visa for a 1 year work permit (at least ours does)

- I'd been advised by two separate lawyers that our Partnership is a legal entity allowing minority non-controlling ownership of businesses (& land), so long as the company actually does business & pays tax. As I have always had a Work Permit & worked for the Partnership, I'd never had cause to consider that I had to have a work permit to maintain my Partnership shareholding.

So sounds like the worst case scenario is that I go the Non-O Marriage visa extension route based on 400K deposit, & consult a lawyer WRT converting the Partnership into a Limited Company.

Very many thanks again for your time & contributions

Best Regards

Andy S

Interesting that you got a WP to work for a registered ordinary partnership. It is of course technically possible to get one to be employed even by a sole proprietorship but I think it is quite unusual these days, as Immigration and DOE have become used to limited companies applying only. It must have helped that there is a real business there with a record of paying tax. It is possible that there would be implications for the partnership structure, if you ceased to have a WP. Technically partners can't be non-working partners, I don't think, which would mean you would have to resign from the partnership and/or restructure the business. Of course you can be a shareholder of a limited co without a WP and receive dividends.

Whatever you decide re the business structure and your WP it probably makes sense to shift to the NON-IMM O visa and extensions based on marriage, as that seems the easiest in your situation and you can get a WP on it. They seem to recognise some sort of humanitarian right for married couples to stay together in Thailand, as long as the foreigner can show the minimum amount of dosh and conditions for that are unlikely to change much.

Having a WP is useful in some situations, e.g. getting foreign visas for your wife, applying for credit cards and bank accounts, and, of course applying for Thai citizenship based on having a Thai wife. If any of these are important to you, it would be worth trying to hang on the WP. In your case I would approach your local DOE office and ask them, if you need more Thai employees to renew your WP. If you do need to add more employees, they need Bt 300 a day and that is Bt 6,000 a month, if you only employ them for 20 days a month. They can be paid in cash, if they sign in a book monthly. You need to do their PND 1s to the Revenue Dept but paying them in cash give a certain amount of flexibility. The SSP might come around when the new employees are first registered for Social Security but they are unlikely to check after that. Also please see my question to Ubonjoe about the number of Thai employees needed if you have a Thai wife.

Edited May 9, 201313 yr by Arkady