Substantial Amount Missing From The Bank Account

[Naroge]

The local bank manager can easily find out where the transaction took place, by calling the head office, if she/he wants to. This has happened to me before and the manager got the information rather quickly. However, after a certain time this info is not available even for the head office on a "direct access" basis, and you then have to pay 200 Baht for a printout. This printout has information on location of the transaction and what type it was (otherwise the printout is rather useless).

My experience was not with KBank, but I dealt with KBank for other matters and they are very professional.

If the local office refuse to help you, then you have no other way than to go to the head office yourself. Just be prepared to spend a lot of time, and don't leave the office before you have got to see the right person. Presence is power.

[ExpatOilWorker]

That explains the extra 150K on my account! Found money is easy and fun to spend.

[JCaligula]

If the ATM card was with you all the time then it could be inside job,is easy for them to chose foreign account names as victim.This cases happens regularly by insiders.So the best advice for you is to loodge police report or go to DSI and give all your details and bank branch where you open your account.It is always best to have internet banking and it is computerized so whenever there is withdrawal,SMS will will be sent to you..

[seasia]

I added online service to my account. Best thing ever. When a withdrawal or deposit is made, I get an automated SMS message on my phone showing the amount. When I withdraw money from the ATM, my phone buzzes before the money even comes out of the machine!

This sounds like a great service, but what can you do if you receive an sms at midnight Saturday night indicating your account is being plundered? Is there a number you can call to get the bank on the job then and there, or the police, or....anybody? Maybe that's covered further up the thread, and if so, sorry. I haven't read it all.

Hello

In the case Of Kasikorn, yes, they have a 24 hour phone number you can call to cancel/freeze your card.

I had need to use it once, late and found the service helpful and efficient.

As well as a couple of security questions, they also wanted my passport number.

[harber8]

Is your wife Thai? Does she have access to your ATM card?

I used to let my Thai wife withdraw money on my behalf. Only a thousand baht or so at a time when I couldn't be arsed to go to the ATM. When I started checking my statements I noticed double that I asked her to get was being withdrawn. Needless to say she ain't my wife anymore.

Kasikorn bank (thai farmers bank) is a large (maybe the largest) bank in the land of smirks so there should be more support available. I would request contact details (e-mail) for your branch manager then all correspondance is in black and white. or contact for an official or head office senior. I wouldn't bother with the police. They ain't got nothing to gain or squeeze out of it. Any refund will go straight to your account, not through there dirty, corrupt, monkey brain hands.

Good luck mate

[VINCENT2012]

to avoid problem ,you have to check,check, check,check,check and check again what people are doing with your own staff,even at the immigration .dont trust anybody,verify before leaving....it is unbeleavable how many mistake they can make a day.

Edited May 9, 2013 by metisdead
Large font reset to normal.

[Globeman]

Don't botrher with additional complaints to the bank manager or main branch. the bank's representatives have already demonstrated their complete lack of concern and just wish you'd go away. For all you know, a crew of the bank staff may be pilfering in some sort of scam, and your teller may well be in on it - certainly sounds like it from the dismissive attitude.

Go to the police and file a report (and ensure proof of absence from the country at the time) - the police have to do at least this much. Then go back to the bank with your copy of the report, and I think you will find that they will be far more cooperative. The police may or may not act on it - that always seems to be a wild card - so you are best going after it yourself. At the very least, you want to prevent it from happening again. Did the teller not even recommend that you change your ATM password? (I presume you have done so.)

Good luck. Dig in your heels and refuse to be treated like you don't matter - keep your temper, but sometimes getting a little bit heated can have a beneficial effect - they see the first signs of anger and are afraid that you'll blow your stack, like a Thai man would.

[Just1Voice]

I have both VA and SS disability compensation every month. The U.S. Government stipulates that government Direct Deposit checks, if made outside of the U.S., can only go to an account in my name only, with no ATM and no internet banking. And they will only deal with Bangkok Bank. Okay, so once a month, after my checks come, I have to go in person to the bank - any branch - and transfer what I need from that account to a joint account with my wife to pay our bills. The joint account has instant notification by SMS to my phone for any transactions made on that account. I transfer what is needed for those bills, plus 10k for "incidentals", and leave the rest in the Direct Deposit account. A little bit of a hassle at times, but nothing serious. And, when I was in the hospital one time when my checks came to the DD account, my wife went to our local branch to tell them. They actually sent an employee with her to the hospital for me to fill out and sign the withdrawal and deposit slips.

One advantage in dealing with the same branch for 5+ years is that everyone in there knows me and my wife. For the first few months I had to show my passport, or copy of it, whenever I did the transfer. After that, no big deal, and can't remember the last time I had to show it there. If I go to a different branch, however, such as the one in Tesco at San Sai or on Hang Dong Highway, I always take the passport with me.

[OJAS]

Looks like my negative banking experiences, as reported yesterday at post#19 on the thread at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/637525-is-there-a-multiple-entry-retirement-visa/, may not be all that unusual after all!

As I stated in that post, my initial Krung Thai account was the victim of a couple of sizeable phantom ATM cash withdrawals from someone who had presumably cloned my debit card. And exactly the same thing then happened with my replacement Kasikorn account: again, someone apparently cloned my debit card and used it to make a couple of sizeable ATM cash withdrawals!

At least Kasikorn did, in my case, inform me that my card had been used to withdraw cash at ATM in a place 300km away from where I lived and which I had never visited – in stark contrast to the complete lack of co-operation with which the OP was confronted. But they did insist on my obtaining a police report before they were prepared to consider the possibility of a refund – at which point I simply gave up in frustration.

I also had a problem immediately after moving out here (and before opening a bank account locally), when I attempted to withdraw cash from a local Krungsri ATM using my UK credit card. For reasons best known only unto itself, the ATM refused to produce the money which I had requested but still charged me for the transaction!

And this particular ATM appears to have a long memory because a duplicate phantom transaction appeared in my UK credit card account a couple of years later, even though I had not risked sticking my card into it again in the meantime! Fortunately my UK bank then gave me a full refund and issued me with a new credit card.

My present account here is with the Bangkok Bank, and I keep the balance as low as possible by only transferring from my UK account the amount I expect needing to live on here each month. In addition I do not hold a debit (or any other) card for my Bangkok Bank account.

I simply don’t trust ATM’s in LOS with a barge pole given the clearly lax arrangements in place to counter their fraudulent use. IMHO you stick a card (local or foreign) into them at your peril. However, should a UK-style CHIP & PIN system ever be introduced here, I might be prepared to think again. Any chance of such a system being rolled out before the start of the next millennium (A.D. not B.E.), perhaps?

Edited May 9, 2013 by OJAS

[KuhnPaen]

So do you think it is an inside job? I would be reluctant to ever open a bank account in Thailand after hearing this. Being that there are no protections in Thailand, whats to stop an unscupulous bank teller from withdrawing funds from an account? LOS=Land Of Scams. Never ceases to amaze me how they can bleed the farang.

Edited May 9, 2013 by KuhnPaen

[FalangBaa]

Do you have a Thai girlfriend or wife? Need I say more?

[yeeowww]

If I were you, before I found out what happened to my money, I'd secure the funds you still have with Kasikorn by tranfering it elsewhere. Kasikorn is perhaps the worlds worst bank. Certainly the worst I've ever experienced.

Obviously you've never banked with Bank Of America...

I find that service with Thai banks varies significantly with each branch. I bank at Airport Plaza, open 'till 8 p.m. 7 days of the week! You probably got a bum Kasikorn branch because after banking and running a business here for over 7 years now, Kasikorn has given me the best service I've ever had, hands down. Bank Ayuthya is a Baht-pinching, conniving, annoying bank. They refused to cash checks for customers because the signature did not match exactly, or the date was written in with a different pen than the rest of the check because it ran out of ink, they would call at 8 a.m. to remind you to pay your CC statement even though it was not yet due. Siam Commercial provided lackadaisical & minimal personal attention. They refused to send me monthly statements for the checking account ("You can go see online Sir. If you want to send, you must pay 100 Baht each time." ), Bangkok Bank was okay but constantly running out of the outrageously expensive checks and which are an absolute necessity in running my business, that I could not tolerate. And they ALL charged significantly higher retailer credit card service rates & often locking up funds for days before posting to my account, etc...

I've experienced NONE of those problems with Kasikorn Bank. They're helpful with whatever my needs and are always quick to respond with any and all aspects. They give the best credit card rates and even when closing out the days deposit just before midnight, money is posted in my account by the time I wake up! They have issued me much needed letters and documents on the spot. And while no Thai bank is really that great with all their ridiculous fees and superfluous charges, compared to the others I find them a breath of fresh air and a welcome relief.

When it comes to my personal banking, I keep all my funds in a savings account in the USA, do internet transfers into a connected checking account and then withdraw using my USA banks Debit card at ATM. Never had a problem and all U.S. records are thorough, safe and sound. And should any fraud occur, my bank will refund without any hiccups!

Edited May 9, 2013 by yeeowww

[Whidbeyboy]

"I might haven been distracted by the phone call ,walking away without even checking receipt and the book."

Wow.

I always check every single receipt I am ever given, anywhere in the world, and I have noted an astonishing number of errors on them. And not necessarily to my detriment.

Good for you. I love to respond by saying I am better then you. It helps make me feel superior and hope to get a pat on the shoulder.

[Whidbeyboy]

Do you have a Thai girlfriend or wife? Need I say more?

I think if that was the case he would've mentioned it. Maybe he has a Brit wife? Or one from Oz. Point being that if an obvious possibility was someone else had access why would it matter where they were from?

[dick]

No,my gf is not thai and nobody else had access to the debit card throughout the period in question.Besides we were both abroad and only returned to LOS next day from what is indicated in the bank book date of withdrawal.I have found a single contact mail for Kasikorn [email protected] and already mailed them the questions yesterday .

Is your wife Thai? Does she have access to your ATM card?

I used to let my Thai wife withdraw money on my behalf. Only a thousand baht or so at a time when I couldn't be arsed to go to the ATM. When I started checking my statements I noticed double that I asked her to get was being withdrawn. Needless to say she ain't my wife anymore.

Kasikorn bank (thai farmers bank) is a large (maybe the largest) bank in the land of smirks so there should be more support available. I would request contact details (e-mail) for your branch manager then all correspondance is in black and white. or contact for an official or head office senior. I wouldn't bother with the police. They ain't got nothing to gain or squeeze out of it. Any refund will go straight to your account, not through there dirty, corrupt, monkey brain hands.

Good luck mate

[bkk_mike]

...

I simply don’t trust ATM’s in LOS with a barge pole given the clearly lax arrangements in place to counter their fraudulent use. IMHO you stick a card (local or foreign) into them at your peril. However, should a UK-style CHIP & PIN system ever be introduced here, I might be prepared to think again. Any chance of such a system being rolled out before the start of the next millennium (A.D. not B.E.), perhaps?

...

I know Bangkok Bank does a chip ATM card.

It's a pain at times as it only works in Bangkok Bank ATMs (especially painful when the local Bangkok Bank ATM isn't working, but the two SCB ATMs next to it are working), On the other hand, it means the fraudsters with the ATM card skimmers won't get you.

[dick]

The teller did not recommend anything,the manager didn't either. Which police branch would be more appropriate to file a complaint with,tourist or regular one?

Don't botrher with additional complaints to the bank manager or main branch. the bank's representatives have already demonstrated their complete lack of concern and just wish you'd go away. For all you know, a crew of the bank staff may be pilfering in some sort of scam, and your teller may well be in on it - certainly sounds like it from the dismissive attitude.

Go to the police and file a report (and ensure proof of absence from the country at the time) - the police have to do at least this much. Then go back to the bank with your copy of the report, and I think you will find that they will be far more cooperative. The police may or may not act on it - that always seems to be a wild card - so you are best going after it yourself. At the very least, you want to prevent it from happening again. Did the teller not even recommend that you change your ATM password? (I presume you have done so.)

Good luck. Dig in your heels and refuse to be treated like you don't matter - keep your temper, but sometimes getting a little bit heated can have a beneficial effect - they see the first signs of anger and are afraid that you'll blow your stack, like a Thai man would.

[newermonkey]

Write up a damning article ready for the news papers and go see the regional manager ad explain that you don't really want to splash this all over the press and go viral on the internet but may have to if they don't help you.

This might act a big kick up the arse for the bank and it will be better for them to refund you without further ado. (Have the article translated to Thai ready for the Thai Rack newspaper and Thai Blogs as well)

[laislica]

"I might haven been distracted by the phone call ,walking away without even checking receipt and the book."

Wow.

I always check every single receipt I am ever given, anywhere in the world, and I have noted an astonishing number of errors on them. And not necessarily to my detriment.

Good for you. I love to respond by saying I am better then you. It helps make me feel superior and hope to get a pat on the shoulder.

In an earlier post I gave a lot of advice about Kasikorn Bank in particular.

However, I was thinking that the OP was rather foolish and careless with his money.

I think that Bertha's advice (you didn't quote it all) was sound advice, I even "Liked" it when I first read it.

There are other posts that make even more stress on CHECK EVERYTHING ALWAYS!!

If the OP had taken better care of his affairs, maybe the loss would have been much smaller.

It would be interesting to hear again from the OP re what actions he has/is taking to avoid this sort of problem in the future.

I remember a case in the UK very many years ago, al old lady employed a local lady to do some cleaning and shopping for her. The old lady even asked her helper to draw her pension for her and then put the money in a cupboard.

At some point the helper was short of money and borrowed a small sum and paid it back. Nothing was noticed and it became a regular habit, except that she stopped returning the "borrowed money".

Some time later, the old lady called the police and the helper was charged.

In court the magistrate said that the old lady was partly to blame because she had placed unreasonable temptation in the way of another. Had the old lady been more careful, the problem would never have happened.

I'm not saying that this is the same here - just that the OP should take off his holiday head and plant his feet firmly on the ground!

[dick]

Yeah,we all know these lines already. All rape and scum victims are to be blamed for what happened to them,not the perpetrators. All it takes for the bank staff is to give a comprehensive answers to simple questions ,where,when and to what accounts or out which ATM the money went out. All it takes is to help recover a deposit which wasn't listed in the books is checking several CCTV video clips to either prove me a liar or help me recover my money. But they won't ,which brings me to the idea that it was most likely inside job .

"I might haven been distracted by the phone call ,walking away without even checking receipt and the book."

Wow.

I always check every single receipt I am ever given, anywhere in the world, and I have noted an astonishing number of errors on them. And not necessarily to my detriment.

Good for you. I love to respond by saying I am better then you. It helps make me feel superior and hope to get a pat on the shoulder.

In an earlier post I gave a lot of advice about Kasikorn Bank in particular.

However, I was thinking that the OP was rather foolish and careless with his money.

I think that Bertha's advice (you didn't quote it all) was sound advice, I even "Liked" it when I first read it.

There are other posts that make even more stress on CHECK EVERYTHING ALWAYS!!

If the OP had taken better care of his affairs, maybe the loss would have been much smaller.

It would be interesting to hear again from the OP re what actions he has/is taking to avoid this sort of problem in the future.

I remember a case in the UK very many years ago, al old lady employed a local lady to do some cleaning and shopping for her. The old lady even asked her helper to draw her pension for her and then put the money in a cupboard.

At some point the helper was short of money and borrowed a small sum and paid it back. Nothing was noticed and it became a regular habit, except that she stopped returning the "borrowed money".

Some time later, the old lady called the police and the helper was charged.

In court the magistrate said that the old lady was partly to blame because she had placed unreasonable temptation in the way of another. Had the old lady been more careful, the problem would never have happened.

I'm not saying that this is the same here - just that the OP should take off his holiday head and plant his feet firmly on the ground!

[dick]

Sounds like a plan)) This article if printed would cost them potentially more than 187 000 baht in question..

Write up a damning article ready for the news papers and go see the regional manager ad explain that you don't really want to splash this all over the press and go viral on the internet but may have to if they don't help you.

This might act a big kick up the arse for the bank and it will be better for them to refund you without further ado. (Have the article translated to Thai ready for the Thai Rack newspaper and Thai Blogs as well)

[sirchai]

Well, 150 K isn't just peanuts and you should go and talk to the bank director. Take somebody who's got a 'hi-so' social standard, it helps a lot.

Of course, you need to know where the money went to. Ever thought about closing this account, somebody could have cloned your bank card.

All bank cards, such as visa and master cards are worth gold here. You can buy very expensive goods, by using your grandmother's card. Nobody would even try to check if it's your card, or not.

Just open a new account, get a new card for now, such an investigation can take forever. Good luck, hope you'll find out what happened.-

[Postmaster]

Dick. Without your receipt for the deposit monies you have little hope I fear. Also what about members of your family. Do they have access to your ATM

card and/or Pin ?

I went into Bankok Bank recently and swopped both my ''Magnetic Strip" cards (which can be cloned) for purely chip and pin cards. This does restrict you to using only BKK Bank ATMs but they have Branches/ Machines in most areas so I am sanguine with that inconvenience. I definately recommend getting rid of your magnetic strip cards.

[HarryMilton]

Unfortunately could not find any receipt.It was either not given to me or i 've lost it. As i 've said earlier i might have been distracted that moment so i don't remember if i had a receipt at all. Normally i am very attentive but there are moments..

Hi Dick,

so you still have the receipt from the deposit? if so, make sure you make a copy of it, go to your home branch where you opened the account with a Thai who can speak English and who you trust just incase the manager does not speak English. Show then the original receipt but give them the copy! and take it from there.

As a point, sometimes when I have not updated my book for a long time when they do update it, they won't show all the transactions, they just summarize the totals because if it is a busy account like mine there maybe 400 transactions over the course of a few months.

If no joy from the branch call the helpline they speak good English and it will take about 2 days for them to investigate but they will get back to you with answers. They are very helpful.

Let us know how you get on

You want the bank to investigate your claim that you made a deposit at a time when you were very distracted, that you don't have a receipt for it and it is not recorded in your passbook?

Tell us if that ever works and your phantom deposit is credited to your account.

[sirchai]

...

I simply don’t trust ATM’s in LOS with a barge pole given the clearly lax arrangements in place to counter their fraudulent use. IMHO you stick a card (local or foreign) into them at your peril. However, should a UK-style CHIP & PIN system ever be introduced here, I might be prepared to think again. Any chance of such a system being rolled out before the start of the next millennium (A.D. not B.E.), perhaps?

...

I know Bangkok Bank does a chip ATM card.

It's a pain at times as it only works in Bangkok Bank ATMs (especially painful when the local Bangkok Bank ATM isn't working, but the two SCB ATMs next to it are working), On the other hand, it means the fraudsters with the ATM card skimmers won't get you.

I've got a visa card from Bangkok bank and it works at all ATM's. The skimmers will get you, if you're not careful enough.--

[how241]

Sounds like a police matter. Although I would first ask to see the senior manager and politely tell them that this is your only recourse if they choose not to investigate.

+1

[laislica]

Yeah,we all know these lines already. All rape and scum victims are to be blamed for what happened to them,not the perpetrators. All it takes for the bank staff is to give a comprehensive answers to simple questions ,where,when and to what accounts or out which ATM the money went out. All it takes is to help recover a deposit which wasn't listed in the books is checking several CCTV video clips to either prove me a liar or help me recover my money. But they won't ,which brings me to the idea that it was most likely inside job .

"I might haven been distracted by the phone call ,walking away without even checking receipt and the book."

Wow.

I always check every single receipt I am ever given, anywhere in the world, and I have noted an astonishing number of errors on them. And not necessarily to my detriment.

Good for you. I love to respond by saying I am better then you. It helps make me feel superior and hope to get a pat on the shoulder.

In an earlier post I gave a lot of advice about Kasikorn Bank in particular.

However, I was thinking that the OP was rather foolish and careless with his money.

I think that Bertha's advice (you didn't quote it all) was sound advice, I even "Liked" it when I first read it.

There are other posts that make even more stress on CHECK EVERYTHING ALWAYS!!

If the OP had taken better care of his affairs, maybe the loss would have been much smaller.

It would be interesting to hear again from the OP re what actions he has/is taking to avoid this sort of problem in the future.

I remember a case in the UK very many years ago, al old lady employed a local lady to do some cleaning and shopping for her. The old lady even asked her helper to draw her pension for her and then put the money in a cupboard.

At some point the helper was short of money and borrowed a small sum and paid it back. Nothing was noticed and it became a regular habit, except that she stopped returning the "borrowed money".

Some time later, the old lady called the police and the helper was charged.

In court the magistrate said that the old lady was partly to blame because she had placed unreasonable temptation in the way of another. Had the old lady been more careful, the problem would never have happened.

I'm not saying that this is the same here - just that the OP should take off his holiday head and plant his feet firmly on the ground!

Dick, did you read my post #28?

Many people on this thread are trying to help you, me included.

But, for goodness sake, help yourself and keep your wits about you and stop whining!

BTW, I didn't realise that you were raped and scum as well, looks like quite a run of bad luck then eh?

[dick]

Yes,because if they and you calling me a liar than prove me wrong by showing me a CCTV footage that i wasn't there handing over the cash over the counter. .My distraction that day is by no means can serve as a justification of the possible theft perpetrated by staff member.

Unfortunately could not find any receipt.It was either not given to me or i 've lost it. As i 've said earlier i might have been distracted that moment so i don't remember if i had a receipt at all. Normally i am very attentive but there are moments..

Hi Dick,

so you still have the receipt from the deposit? if so, make sure you make a copy of it, go to your home branch where you opened the account with a Thai who can speak English and who you trust just incase the manager does not speak English. Show then the original receipt but give them the copy! and take it from there.

As a point, sometimes when I have not updated my book for a long time when they do update it, they won't show all the transactions, they just summarize the totals because if it is a busy account like mine there maybe 400 transactions over the course of a few months.

If no joy from the branch call the helpline they speak good English and it will take about 2 days for them to investigate but they will get back to you with answers. They are very helpful.

Let us know how you get on

You want the bank to investigate your claim that you made a deposit at a time when you were very distracted, that you don't have a receipt for it and it is not recorded in your passbook?

Tell us if that ever works and your phantom deposit is credited to your account.

[dick]

I appreciate all the good will and advises here but what i need now is a tip how to recover what i have lost instead of pointing a finger at my ''recklessness''. I had no idea that is was possible not to print a deposit in to the bank book. The receipt could have been simply lost after 2 months.

Yeah,we all know these lines already. All rape and scum victims are to be blamed for what happened to them,not the perpetrators. All it takes for the bank staff is to give a comprehensive answers to simple questions ,where,when and to what accounts or out which ATM the money went out. All it takes is to help recover a deposit which wasn't listed in the books is checking several CCTV video clips to either prove me a liar or help me recover my money. But they won't ,which brings me to the idea that it was most likely inside job .

"I might haven been distracted by the phone call ,walking away without even checking receipt and the book."

Wow.

I always check every single receipt I am ever given, anywhere in the world, and I have noted an astonishing number of errors on them. And not necessarily to my detriment.

Good for you. I love to respond by saying I am better then you. It helps make me feel superior and hope to get a pat on the shoulder.

In an earlier post I gave a lot of advice about Kasikorn Bank in particular.

However, I was thinking that the OP was rather foolish and careless with his money.

I think that Bertha's advice (you didn't quote it all) was sound advice, I even "Liked" it when I first read it.

There are other posts that make even more stress on CHECK EVERYTHING ALWAYS!!

If the OP had taken better care of his affairs, maybe the loss would have been much smaller.

It would be interesting to hear again from the OP re what actions he has/is taking to avoid this sort of problem in the future.

I remember a case in the UK very many years ago, al old lady employed a local lady to do some cleaning and shopping for her. The old lady even asked her helper to draw her pension for her and then put the money in a cupboard.

At some point the helper was short of money and borrowed a small sum and paid it back. Nothing was noticed and it became a regular habit, except that she stopped returning the "borrowed money".

Some time later, the old lady called the police and the helper was charged.

In court the magistrate said that the old lady was partly to blame because she had placed unreasonable temptation in the way of another. Had the old lady been more careful, the problem would never have happened.

I'm not saying that this is the same here - just that the OP should take off his holiday head and plant his feet firmly on the ground!

Dick, did you read my post #28?

Many people on this thread are trying to help you, me included.

But, for goodness sake, help yourself and keep your wits about you and stop whining!

BTW, I didn't realise that you were raped and scum as well, looks like quite a run of bad luck then eh?

[belg]

step 1: keep your receipts

step 2: normally they update your bankbook directly if you ask or at the machine

are you so rich you do not care to check ?