Haze Spreading In Chiang Mai

[jomama]

Nice orage sun this (Thursday) morning and I can barely make out the big mountains about 5 km away.

Found this satellite photo from Nasa. The red spots are fires:

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHa...p3?img_id=13381

[Maejo Man]

Yes, a sad time of year indeed. I'm only a few Kms from Doi Suthep, and I can barely make out the outline. Normally such a stunning view in the mornings

[Ajarn]

I was at immigration yesterday morning and could only faintly make out Doi Suthep. However, I'm pretty sure that this was mostly due to visibile humidity... Frankly, in this area, I haven't seen much burning the last few weeks, especially when compared to the Phrao valley

[PeaceBlondie]

That's one of the things that made it easy to move from CMai to Hua Hin. My condo had the most breathtaking views of the mountains....about 8 months of the year.

[chanchao]

You know pollution is getting bad when you can't see the mountain, when standing at the Khru Bar Srivichai shrine.

[billd766]

I started a small thread about this a couple of days ago but I didn't realise it was this bad.

Yesterday there were fires burning on both side of the road less than 1 km from the house and I live next to the Mae Wong national park and one of the fires was in the park area. I could see, smell and even hear them burning but nothing will ever be done about it.

If only people would realise what they are doing is ruining the future for their children and grand children but as usual in Thailand money in your hand talks louder than a promise for the future.

[roblin]

My throat is getting sore. Not very healthy living here i guess

[mrmillersr]

Most people don't realize just how bad the pollution is in Chiang Mai and the damage it does to ones health.

Example: The GLOBOCAN 2000 worldwide average rates for lung cancer is 23.8 cases per 100,000. In Chiang Mai, the Thai Provincial Public Health Office had a 2002 rate for lung cancer at 138.87 cases per 100,000. That is almost 6 times higher than the world average.

On top of that, in 2003 there were 704,800 cases of respiratory diseases recorded and the numbers are rising.

Besides cancer, recent reports have shown a direct link to air pollution to asthma and heart disease as well. The damage toxic air does to arteries in addition to increasing inflammation within the body is well documented.

So don't be surprised when your eyes begin to water, your nose begins to run, you get that constant cough or pressure on your chest, or get some other mysterious disease that has yet to be diagnosed. It's just that healthy Chiang Mai mountain air that is filling your lungs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

[mrmillersr]

Forgot to include a link to a good article that was in the Chiang Mai Mail -

http://www.chiangmai-mail.com/077/features.shtml

Best advice unfortunately is to move if you value your health. This is a serious problem that is unlikely to go away, at least not soon enough for most already living here.

[francois]

hi'

or may be those fires are intended to be as raining season isn't far, these parts of soil will receive more water and then are able to stand for any culture ...

just an idea, because in north farms we used to do it years ago

francois

[chuchok]

I started a small thread about this a couple of days ago but I didn't realise it was this bad.

Yesterday there were fires burning on both side of the road less than 1 km from the house and I live next to the Mae Wong national park and one of the fires was in the park area. I could see, smell and even hear them burning but nothing will ever be done about it.

If only people would realise what they are doing is ruining the future for their children and grand children but as usual in Thailand money in your hand talks louder than a promise for the future.

I would suggest they have been told that what they are doing is wrong.according to the wif, she said that there have been news items on TV and the newspapers about how bad the burning is for the peoples health.They choose to ignore it.

[ferd54]

According to the Chiang Mai Mail article referenced it is against the law to burn.

Again a question of enforcement.

While the Thaksin government dreams up new regulations (and that's all they are because these new rules-- about cigarette displays, liquor laws, internet shops, etc. -- have not been passed into law by parliament) existing laws/regulations are no where near enforcement.

Seriously, they should mount a media campaign and a hotline for people to call when the see open burning and have people ready to issue 10,000 baht fines.

I have lived here long enough to know that the phrase "what Thai people should do" is p*ssing in the wind, but this is serious enough that I have broken one of my cardinal rules. There needs to be a big effort here from everyone. I don't know how or who, but if there is no hope for improvement we better book our plane flights or our high-coverage insurance or our plots at the foreign cemetary.

Perhaps we can put our thinking caps on and try see if we can make a positive contribution somehow.

Suggestions?

[Ajarn]

According to the Chiang Mai Mail article referenced it is against the law to burn.

Again a question of enforcement.

While the Thaksin government dreams up new regulations (and that's all they are because these new rules-- about cigarette displays, liquor laws, internet shops, etc. -- have not been passed into law by parliament) existing laws/regulations are no where near enforcement.

Seriously, they should mount a media campaign and a hotline for people to call when the see open burning and have people ready to issue 10,000 baht fines.

I have lived here long enough to know that the phrase "what Thai people should do" is p*ssing in the wind, but this is serious enough that I have broken one of my cardinal rules. There needs to be a big effort here from everyone. I don't know how or who, but if there is no hope for improvement we better book our plane flights or our high-coverage insurance or our plots at the foreign cemetary.

Perhaps we can put our thinking caps on and try see if we can make a positive contribution somehow.

Suggestions?

I think the best thing that you can do is to keep raising your voices on such issues. Every year for the past few years, around this time, there are always such threads here. Contributing to such threads gets it on the record, and into the search engines for others to come across... Takes time, but it all contributes...

I'd also be interested in any ideas on making it more of a public issue.

[Allyt]

So if people were not to burn the grass ( and garbage come to that!!?) what would happen to it?

Ah hum.... just saying.... thats all .....

[mrmillersr]

So if people were not to burn the grass ( and garbage come to that!!?) what would happen to it?

Ah hum.... just saying.... thats all .....

Forget burning a little grass - it's the toxic garbage bags and other crap they need to do something with. Truck it, bury it, shoot it to the moon who cares.

This is a very serious problem that has been going on for a long time. Back in 1994 it was reported there were 487,213 hospital cases reported for respiratory disease. That number increased to 704,800 in 2003. To put it into perspective, there are about 250,000 people living in the city and a total of around 1.5 million for the region. So roughly one-half of the population was so sick they had to seek medical attention in 2003 due to a respiratory illness and you know they didn't get it from the food they ate. Add up everyone else who is suffering but didn't report in for treatment, you likely have a majority of the people living in the area being affected.

What's worse is this problem is not going to go away. It was 14 years ago when they passed a Public Health Bill that imposed imprisonment up to 6 months along with a 10,000 baht fine for anyone found polluting the enviornment but this incesstant burning is still going on. Maybe if Thaksin retires to his hometown here in Chiang Mai things will improve, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it, no pun intended.

[Puwa]

We should look to the Thai citizen sector, and even the private sector, for leadership on these issues, rather than to government. People who want to take action on environmental issues might consider:

-Contacting one or more of the Thai citizen-led organizations listed in the following network of environmental NGOs to find out what efforts exist in air quality control and solid waste management in Chiang Mai. Some have pages in English. http://www.thaingo.org/link/browse.php?cat=4

-Seeking information from some of the experts on evironment and development issues at Chiang Mai University

-Becoming a supporter of the Thai chapter of Greenpeace

-Becoming a member of "The Forest Lovers' Society (Chumchon Kon Rak Ba)" [email protected]

[mrmillersr]

Let's get real about this people. To tackle a problem of this magnitude you need the government behind it to implement changes and to enforce the laws it creates. Asking the private and public sector to clean up a major environmental disaster is just wishful thinking. It ain't gonna happen.

Again, this is not some new found health hazard that just became known a short time ago. The government and health officials have been watching this escalate year after year, and have done nothing about it. Remember, this is the land of "mai pen rai" - this is how they live and this is how they die. Too often, things that are important are taken too lightly and nothing gets accomplished.

As for what you can do, there is only one sane and sensible answer - move.

[chuchok]

Let's get real about this people. To tackle a problem of this magnitude you need the government behind it to implement changes and to enforce the laws it creates. Asking the private and public sector to clean up a major environmental disaster is just wishful thinking. It ain't gonna happen.

Again, this is not some new found health hazard that just became known a short time ago. The government and health officials have been watching this escalate year after year, and have done nothing about it. Remember, this is the land of "mai pen rai" - this is how they live and this is how they die. Too often, things that are important are taken too lightly and nothing gets accomplished.

As for what you can do, there is only one sane and sensible answer - move.

Good to see you comming up with good constructive and well thought out ideas.

[Ajarn]

Let's get real about this people. To tackle a problem of this magnitude you need the government behind it to implement changes and to enforce the laws it creates. Asking the private and public sector to clean up a major environmental disaster is just wishful thinking. It ain't gonna happen.

Again, this is not some new found health hazard that just became known a short time ago. The government and health officials have been watching this escalate year after year, and have done nothing about it. Remember, this is the land of "mai pen rai" - this is how they live and this is how they die. Too often, things that are important are taken too lightly and nothing gets accomplished.

As for what you can do, there is only one sane and sensible answer - move.

Good to see you comming up with good constructive and well thought out ideas.

Seriously.

You should change your name to mrbummer

Puwa has some much more interesting ideas

Edited March 8, 2006 by Ajarn

[KhunMarco]

Ok, this is the first year I can see first hand the difference between the visibility of December and March.

I'm not telling there's not a pollution problem here, indeed it's well present, but there's no way all this "fog" is caused by fires.

The biggest component must be the climate, c'mon it's been one week since someone stolen Doi Suthep.

I need to go and verify it's still there

Am I wrong and all the Thai are in their garden burning their crap? Seems quite weird to me

[mobile69]

Am I wrong and all the Thai are in their garden burning their crap? Seems quite weird to me

Try driving the old road to Lamphun at dusk - little fires every few metre, burning a few leaves, garden

cuttings, garbage. The smoke just hangs in the trees, no breeze to blow it away. Disgusting. Then there's all the land owners with their unused plots of land, where the weeds grow to 3m high. Every year they burn this crap. Some actually cut it before burning, most just let it burn uncontrolled. Why can't they just cut it & let it rot during the wet season? It's not as if the land's gonna be used. Also they mainly light the fires at dusk, no wind to disperse the smoke. Too bad if you live nearby. Goddamn pea brains

[Puwa]

Let's get real about this people. To tackle a problem of this magnitude you need the government behind it to implement changes and to enforce the laws it creates. Asking the private and public sector to clean up a major environmental disaster is just wishful thinking. It ain't gonna happen.

Actually the point I made was that citizens need to take leadership. I never said that the goals could be accomplished without government. Worldwide, including in Thailand, major improvements in public policy regarding environment have first been pushed by concerned citizens, then eventually taken up by government--even when that government was initially reluctant, hostile, complicit, or stagnant. For example, mangrove conservation in Trang province; the logging ban and subsequent community forest movement nationwide; watershed management. Beyond environment: universal education up to grade 6; greater rights for women and people with disabilities; and, come to think of it, the 1997 Constitution.

Remember, this is the land of "mai pen rai" - this is how they live and this is how they die. Too often, things that are important are taken too lightly and nothing gets accomplished. As for what you can do, there is only one sane and sensible answer - move.

Excellent suggestion, please lead the way. Just kidding, but I would encourage you to recognize that there are many many bright, dedicated, and effective Thai people working to improve society. And they are making progress, albeit sometimes more slowly than they would like. If you come to know some of them, you may find that your attitude toward the people and the country will improve.

[KhunMarco]

Am I wrong and all the Thai are in their garden burning their crap? Seems quite weird to me

Try driving the old road to Lamphun at dusk - little fires every few metre, burning a few leaves, garden

cuttings, garbage. The smoke just hangs in the trees, no breeze to blow it away. Disgusting. Then there's all the land owners with their unused plots of land, where the weeds grow to 3m high. Every year they burn this crap. Some actually cut it before burning, most just let it burn uncontrolled. Why can't they just cut it & let it rot during the wet season? It's not as if the land's gonna be used. Also they mainly light the fires at dusk, no wind to disperse the smoke. Too bad if you live nearby. Goddamn pea brains

If this wasn't Thailand I'd have a hard time to believe you... seems a bad joke if you ask me

December was great and look now, I bet even the tourists are not happy. Well sure I won't tell my friends to come and vistit now if they have an alternative period.

The strangest thing is there' s a good wind on my balcony now ,but it' doesn't move the smoke 1 inch

Edited March 9, 2006 by KhunMarco

[Ajarn]

Am I wrong and all the Thai are in their garden burning their crap? Seems quite weird to me

Try driving the old road to Lamphun at dusk - little fires every few metre, burning a few leaves, garden

cuttings, garbage. The smoke just hangs in the trees, no breeze to blow it away. Disgusting.

Yeah, the same in every village I'm passing through after about 4 pm. The main problem that I can see is the temperature of the fire. Very little, if any, flame. Just a smoldering mass. In my muubaan, they were actually watering the flames, only allowing it to smoulder.. Like maybe, to have flames created an 'out of control' environment, in their minds, hence, the smouldering...

[chuchok]

I haven't got the full gist of the story (for obvious reasons), but here goes...

Apparently in Udon, certain Temples are issuing people who stop drinking with certificates.These certificates tell all and sundry that care to read them that the person is a good person and is a credit to buddhism....or something along those lines. The wife swears that it is working(according to a few of her family members.)

I haven't got the exact story, because half way through her explaining this to me..I told her that it sounded like kindergarten and being given gold stars by teach. ..the story has now been withdrawn from conversation.

Anyway, it seems to me that if this action works, then why can't a similar approach work on the environment.

[...Ken]

The villagers burn the understory of the forests for definite reasons. I'm not supporting the practice as I have a wood house with only a wee creek between me and a wall of flame creeping down the mountain each year. However, it is a practice that has been going on for hundreds/thousands of years. The fires don't cause the damage in a deciduous forest as they do in a coniferous. The fires rarely get hot enough to seriously damage the soil and the ash adds nutrient and a ph balancing effect. Easier to walk uphill without those slippery leaves...less hiding spots for scorpions etc. when you are out harvesting plants. Torching the forests is done because it works and there is little disadvantage for the average villager. A definite disadvantage for the urban dwellers who are only used to their 'necessary' form of air contaminants.

However, I did read that in the 1890's you could see Doi Chieng Dao from Chiengmai.

...Ken

[Wallalai]

Before to complain about fires and fumes here, please remember that:

The USA is the world's biggest polluter

http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/pollution.html#Pollution

Dixit GWB:

"We will not do anything that harms our economy, because first things first are the people who live in America"

And without to forget all the pollution generated by the wars USA is involved in.

I'll maybe be considered as a troll, but I don't care.

Edited March 9, 2006 by Wallalai

[Ajarn]

The villagers burn the understory of the forests for definite reasons. I'm not supporting the practice as I have a wood house with only a wee creek between me and a wall of flame creeping down the mountain each year. However, it is a practice that has been going on for hundreds/thousands of years. The fires don't cause the damage in a deciduous forest as they do in a coniferous. The fires rarely get hot enough to seriously damage the soil and the ash adds nutrient and a ph balancing effect. Easier to walk uphill without those slippery leaves...less hiding spots for scorpions etc. when you are out harvesting plants. Torching the forests is done because it works and there is little disadvantage for the average villager. A definite disadvantage for the urban dwellers who are only used to their 'necessary' form of air contamin

But, it doesn't allow for much organic material to exist, so this is one reason for the lack of good top soil necessary for watershed in The North.

[mogoso]

Most people don't realize just how bad the pollution is in Chiang Mai and the damage it does to ones health.

Example: The GLOBOCAN 2000 worldwide average rates for lung cancer is 23.8 cases per 100,000. In Chiang Mai, the Thai Provincial Public Health Office had a 2002 rate for lung cancer at 138.87 cases per 100,000. That is almost 6 times higher than the world average.

On top of that, in 2003 there were 704,800 cases of respiratory diseases recorded and the numbers are rising.

Besides cancer, recent reports have shown a direct link to air pollution to asthma and heart disease as well. The damage toxic air does to arteries in addition to increasing inflammation within the body is well documented.

So don't be surprised when your eyes begin to water, your nose begins to run, you get that constant cough or pressure on your chest, or get some other mysterious disease that has yet to be diagnosed. It's just that healthy Chiang Mai mountain air that is filling your lungs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Just outta curiousity what are the radon readings in Chiang Mai. seems like an incredible amount of cancer rates for air pollution to be the sole or even main culprit.

[Ajarn]

Before to complain about fires and fumes here, please remember that:

The USA is the world's biggest polluter

http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/pollution.html#Pollution

Dixit GWB:

"We will not do anything that harms our economy, because first things first are the people who live in America"

And without to forget all the pollution generated by the wars USA is involved in.

I'll maybe be considered as a troll, but I don't care.

I hope that you are not one of those people who suggest that if we we were born in America (or any country outside of Thailand?), then we have less of a voice concerrning pollution here.

That would be trolling

Edited March 9, 2006 by Ajarn