ปรากฏ

[jamles]

I have just started trying to read Nawawaan Pantumata's book on Thai grammar, ไวยากรณ์ไทย. It's written in Thai only and, frankly, quite a bit beyond my vocabulary and grammar skills but I think I should be able to learn a great deal from it if I can overcome some of the grammatical challenges.

One in particular is with the word ปรากฏ. The author uses this word quite often and I just can't quite get my head around it. The definitions that I've found are: to appear; to seem; to reveal; to happen. She often follows it with ร่วมกับ or ร่วมด้วย as in the sentences:

คำกริยาแสดงอาการปรากฏร่วมกับหน่วยนาม... and ... ก็อาจมีหน่วยนามที่หมายถึงจุดหมาายหรึอแหล่งเดิมของกริยาปรากฏร่วมด้วย.

I have discussed it somewhat with my Thai tutor but still just don't get it. I'm obviously missing something critical here. If anyone can shed some light on the meaning of this word in this context, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks.

[kriswillems]

I think แสดงอาการปรากฏ is just a very formal way to say ปรากฏ

So these sentences are talking about a verb that "appears/shows up/is used together" with a/the noun.

On which page is it?

[jamles]

I think แสดงอาการปรากฏ is just a very formal way to say ปรากฏ

So these sentences are talking about a verb that "appears/shows up/is used together" with a/the noun.

On which page is it?

Thanks. Yes, it was the 'appears; shows up' definition that was confusing me. 'used together with' makes it clearer.

Both phrases are from page 9. ปรากฏ is used prolifically throughout the chapter on verbs, คำกริยา.

[tgeezer]

I have just started trying to read Nawawaan Pantumata's book on Thai grammar, ไวยากรณ์ไทย. It's written in Thai only and, frankly, quite a bit beyond my vocabulary and grammar skills but I think I should be able to learn a great deal from it if I can overcome some of the grammatical challenges.

One in particular is with the word ปรากฏ. The author uses this word quite often and I just can't quite get my head around it. The definitions that I've found are: to appear; to seem; to reveal; to happen. She often follows it with ร่วมกับ or ร่วมด้วย as in the sentences:

... and ... ก็อาจมีหน่วยนามที่หมายถึงจุดหมาายหรึอแหล่งเดิมของกริยาปรากฏร่วมด้วย.

I have discussed it somewhat with my Thai tutor but still just don't get it. I'm obviously missing something critical here. If anyone can shed some light on the meaning of this word in this context, I would really appreciate it.

I found it confusing too. Her idea that there are six catagories of words is not the way Thai is traditionally taught in the school curriculum, so you must be flexible when interpreting what she means.

Here she is explaining verbs which show the situation. คำกริยาแสดงอาการ and the second type of verb she as are กริยาแสดงสภาพ but the definition of อาการ is : ความเป็นอยู่, ความเป็นไป, สภาพ thank goodness she gives examples of the sort of verbs she means.

Parsing; คำกริยาแสดงอาการปรากฏร่วมกับหน่วยนาม I get: คำกริยาแสดงอาการ= หน่วยนาม ปรากฏร่วม = กริยาวลี กับ = บุพบท หน่วยนาม = นาม Action verbs appear together with nouns.

People who haven't studied her method are not forced to adopt it, I have called กับ a บุพบท but she would call it a คำเชื่อม probably, but her syntax is English where 'with' would be a preposition.

There are lots of good examples of everyday Thai in her book but for grammar there are more conventional books which I find easier.

[kriswillems]

I've this book and other Thai grammar books at home and I think you need to be an advanced learner to get something from it. I personally got very little from them.

They talk about Thai grammar in a very describing way, not really in an analysing way. (I don't know how to express what I mean).

When I used to study the grammar of my native language we had techniques for splitting sentences into parts and defining which role each part had. After that we split the the parts up into words and we described the function of each word. This was a very logic, almost mathematical method. I still didn't find any good Thai grammar book with emphasises such an analytical approach.

[jamles]

The book definitely has a different take on grammar but I think there must be a lot too learn from it, albeit very difficult. Most others I have tried are too simplistic and as noted in posts above, not structured in the same way as grammar we have learned in the West. What other books have you guys found most helpful.

[DavidHouston]

More later, but the three primary categories of verbs Ajarn Nawawan delineates are

คำกริยาแสดงอาการ - action or dynamic verbs (page 8); auxiliary verbs or aspect verbs (page 48)

คำกริยาแสดงสภาพ - attributive verbs (which can also be classified as adjectives or adverbs) (page 14)
คำกริยาแสดงการประสบ - stative verbs (page 16)

[DavidHouston]

Here are three sentences from page 9 where the verb ปรากฏ is used to describe nouns stated in connection with verbs, as well as my understanding of these sentences:

คำกริยาแสดงอาการปรากฏร่วมกับหน่วยนาม หมายถึงผู้ทำกริยานั้นๆ

Action verbs are used in connection with nouns which indicate the person performing that particular action.

ถ้าเป็นกริยาแสดงอาการที่อยู่กับที่ ก็อาจมีหน่วยนามที่หมายถึงสถานที่ที่เกิดกริยานั้นปรากฏอยู่ด้วย

If the action verb indicates presence [at a particular location], a noun indicating the place where the presence takes place may accompany the verb.

ถ้าเป็นกริยาแสดงอาการที่เคลื่อนที่ ก็อาจมีหน่วยนามที่หมายถึงจุดหมายหรือแหล่งเดิมของกริยาปรากฏร่วมด้อย

If the verb indicates movement, there may be a noun indicating the place to where the movement will end or the place where the movement began stated in conjunction with the verb.

[tgeezer]

Here are three sentences from page 9 where the verb ปรากฏ is used to describe nouns stated in connection with verbs, as well as my understanding of these sentences:

คำกริยาแสดงอาการปรากฏร่วมกับหน่วยนาม หมายถึงผู้ทำกริยานั้นๆ

Action verbs are used in connection with nouns which indicate the person performing that particular action.

ถ้าเป็นกริยาแสดงอาการที่อยู่กับที่ ก็อาจมีหน่วยนามที่หมายถึงสถานที่ที่เกิดกริยานั้นปรากฏอยู่ด้วย

If the action verb indicates presence [at a particular location], a noun indicating the place where the presence takes place may accompany the verb.

ถ้าเป็นกริยาแสดงอาการที่เคลื่อนที่ ก็อาจมีหน่วยนามที่หมายถึงจุดหมายหรือแหล่งเดิมของกริยาปรากฏร่วมด้อย

If the verb indicates movement, there may be a noun indicating the place to where the movement will end or the place where the movement began stated in conjunction with the verb.

Thanks David this shows the difficulty with this book very well; a traditional approach would be to call ผู้ทำกริยานั้น (the person performing that particular action) ประธาน (subject) .

Looking for ที่ in คำแทน gets you nowhere, you need to go to คำเชื่อม for ที่. (which incidentally is missing from your first example)

Of course the book was written for students who have learnt the traditional grammar based on English grammar already,( but have forgotten most of it) so for non native speakers who want to compare with the English Thai grammar books life becomes very difficult I think.

You recommended the book for its numerous and very Thai examples, and I agree with you it is a very good source for those.