Making It Up As They Go Along

roiethome · May 10, 2013

I would like to share my recent experience in trying to obtain a divorce from my Thai wife-we were married in Thailand.

Looking on the government website, it says that I need a photocopy of my passport, my wife's ID, completed form and two witnesses.

We duly turn up at the Amphur office with said documents only to be informed that they need a certified copy of passport from the embassy, plus a translation into Thai and my wife needs to produce a form showing where she changed her maiden name to my surname.

One week later, back to same Amphur office, see same officer, who now decided that the certified copy of the passport is not acceptable and must be approved by the Ministry of foreign affairs.

Why did they not tell us that on the first visit.

Off to Chang Wattana office, only to be told that they do not like the look of the translation, and it should be from the translation company located in their building - jobs for the boys sound familiar?

So the process continues, maybe somewhen soon I may get my freedom back.

What is hampering progress in Thailand from moving from a third world status is typified by the lack on control over the Amphur offices. Each head honcho thinks they can rewrite the rules to suit themselves, witness the difference in renewing visa in Jomtien and CW as often quoted in this forum.

I am not surprised that so many expats are moving out of Thailand to a much more expat friendly location such as Philippines.

I must be a glutton for punishment in wanting to remain in Thailand despite all the hurdles placed in our way.

Khun Watchaporn · May 10, 2013

It's almost as if they hate us.

glegolo · May 10, 2013

To me you seems to be quite ignorant to what the demands are here in Thailand. So the precheck was never done by you, you never asked any people BEFORE you start this, and now everyting is everybody elses fault i guess....

I dont know where you are coming fm, but probably USA. I can tell you that your approach is completely wrong and you need to step down, and think before you ride out in the sunset and try to fix things.

First you go to your Amphue, you ask them via your wife what documents are needed.... THAN you proceed with the rest. This is not rocket sience my friend, just plain common sense. Copies that are being translated into english, that are being demanded, do more or less always needed to be stamped and signed and approved by the Foreign affairs in Bangkok....nothing new in that...

Good luck...

Glegolo

Edited May 10, 2013 by glegolo

asiaexpat · May 10, 2013

While agree with the friendly advice gelgolo has provide to "ask the authority" first, I would point out that many people (Thai citizens included) have little experience dealing with the various Thai governmental offices. Having no knowledge of the process at hand, many people seek the nearest source of information and proceed based on that information. Nationality has little to do with lack of experience or knowledge in dealing with Thai government offices (glegolo excepted) and to suggest so is rather ignorant and very biased.

TV forum's purpose is to assist the unknowing in navigating the minefield of Thai government regulations and requirements, not to disparage those less knowledgable than the experienced experts.

glegolo · May 10, 2013

While agree with the friendly advice gelgolo has provide to "ask the authority" first, I would point out that many people (Thai citizens included) have little experience dealing with the various Thai governmental offices. Having no knowledge of the process at hand, many people seek the nearest source of information and proceed based on that information. Nationality has little to do with lack of experience or knowledge in dealing with Thai government offices (glegolo excepted) and to suggest so is rather ignorant and very biased.

TV forum's purpose is to assist the unknowing in navigating the minefield of Thai government regulations and requirements, not to disparage those less knowledgable than the experienced experts.

In other words I was right...

Glegolo

Edited May 10, 2013 by glegolo

engrin · May 10, 2013

We went to 3 amphurs, 1 of which we were married at, in BKK and each one asked for different documents. Seems they wanted some tea money...Very frustrating. Went up to the provinces and all that was needed was passport. 20 baht and 2 witnesses.

AnotherOneAmerican · May 10, 2013

You need

Your passport, your marriage certificate, a witness/translator who can speak enough Thai to enable you to answer the hear officers questions

She needs

Her ID card, her marriage certificate, a witness, her house book

Both witness need ID cards or passports.

That's it, no translations required for any documents. They will normally allow you to only produce a marriage certificate between the two of you.

They want more, ask for a refusal in writing stating precise reason for refusal, then use that to make a complaint to their head office.

Big loss of face all round, plus reprimand from head office.

Khun Watchaporn · May 10, 2013

The OP is wrong, that's for certain.

It definitely isn't the Thai official possibly being a class-A retard like the rest of them, lord no.

Colabamumbai · May 10, 2013

In Korat after she demanded all kinds of money and 50 threatening sms messages to sign the divorce papers, after 6 months she caved and went to the tourist police who brough her to my apartment.

The asked me Alex do you want a divorce today no money, I looked past them and there she was.

They said just bring your passport and if you have your divorce certificate bring it also, we will drive you to the Amphur. So returned to my room got my PP and Marriage License in Thai, told my Lao g/f I had to go and sign divorce papers and would be back in one hour. and off we went. 30 minutes at the Amphur, she signed, I signed, she paid 30 Baht I think. Divorced!!! A g/f of hers met her there on motorbike to take her home..

Then the cops said want a ride home Alex.....Sure thanks....I left a 100 Baht note in the front seat for them, since we had missed lunch while at the Amphur.....

Those were the only two documents necessary, no passport translation.........If you are having problems p.m. me I can give you a Canadian Lawyers number in Korat.

She pawned the $500 wedding ring for $60 a month after marriage. I was better off just dating her. She could have asked me for the 1,800 Baht.

Mobi · May 11, 2013

I'm not sure where you live but I assume you are aware that you can get divorced at any amphur.

I recently got divorced at the amphur in Banglamung (Pattaya) and all I needed was my passport, (no certified translations, or anything like that), a copy of my marriage certificate and my wife needed her ID card and her copy of the marriage certificate. We both had witnesses.

That is all.

The whole process took about 30 minutes.

I suggest you shop around a bit....

Edited May 11, 2013 by Mobi

scorecard · May 12, 2013

I'm not sure where you live but I assume you are aware that you can get divorced at any amphur.

I recently got divorced at the amphur in Banglamung (Pattaya) and all I needed was my passport, (no certified translations, or anything like that), a copy of my marriage certificate and my wife needed her ID card and her copy of the marriage certificate. We both had witnesses.

That is all.

The whole process took about 30 minutes.

I suggest you shop around a bit....

Well 2 years back some research by a Thai relative (research after the divorce - husband and wife both Thai) discovered what Mobi mentioned above.

But in this case (before the husband di some further checking) the lady officer at the Amphur office (in Bangkok) insisted that the husband had to give the wife a divorce settlement of at least 100,000Baht cash to be put on the officers desk at the Amphur office, and 5% of same would be taken as a govt., fee plus the published fee of 20Baht.

Husband (so I'm told) tried to discuss the matter / negotiate with the lady officer but was told in no uncertain terms that he should shut up and not challenge a govt., officer.

Unfortunately the husband went ahead and paid the 100,000Baht, but mostly because he was frightened of his wife's mother and her brothers.

The lady Amphur officer has since been dismissed from the civil service, for some other reasons.

But lets be honest folks, you could come across similar stuff in many places, including so called first world countries.

Edited May 12, 2013 by scorecard

Khun Watchaporn · May 12, 2013

you could come across similar stuff in many places, including so called first world countries.

Oh dear.

renaissanc · May 12, 2013

When I got divorced from my first Thai wife, I only had to show a passport and the marriage certificate. Perhaps it's a personality issue.

indyuk · May 12, 2013

While agree with the friendly advice gelgolo has provide to "ask the authority" first, I would point out that many people (Thai citizens included) have little experience dealing with the various Thai governmental offices. Having no knowledge of the process at hand, many people seek the nearest source of information and proceed based on that information. Nationality has little to do with lack of experience or knowledge in dealing with Thai government offices (glegolo excepted) and to suggest so is rather ignorant and very biased.

TV forum's purpose is to assist the unknowing in navigating the minefield of Thai government regulations and requirements, not to disparage those less knowledgable than the experienced experts.

In other words I was right...

Glegolo

No Glegolo I believe based on pased experience that you are wrong. Chonburi Pattaya Immigration for Visa's and Ampur Banglamung for Marriage or Divorce. Both organisations are curteous and helpful. In my experience for a divorce you need your Thai marriage certificate and one completed form and your wife's presence and agreement (to divorce). If you can't bring two witnesses with you the Ampeur will usually provide two staff members to witness the divorce. If you both speak Thai you do not need any translations and if you have a valid 5 year driving license you don't need your passport. However if you are beligerant or you and you wife argue you may be challenged by requests for all kinds of things that seem unreasonable, which is your just punisment for being dificult in the first place.

You do however need a certified translation of a 'Freedon to Marry' statement to get married.

atyclb · May 12, 2013

You need

Your passport, your marriage certificate, a witness/translator who can speak enough Thai to enable you to answer the hear officers questions

She needs

Her ID card, her marriage certificate, a witness, her house book

Both witness need ID cards or passports.

That's it, no translations required for any documents. They will normally allow you to only produce a marriage certificate between the two of you.

They want more, ask for a refusal in writing stating precise reason for refusal, then use that to make a complaint to their head office.

Big loss of face all round, plus reprimand from head office.

Good in theory but if the person simply says "no written reason" ?

The problems described by OP are consistent with the mindset produced by lack of critical thinking, logic, reason, efficiency, organization, compounded by the patronage system, cheating and corruption = erratic behavior seen. I had a divorce translated to thai and legalized by other government and thai embassy. translated to thai in bkk then taken to MOFA by translation agency courrier for their stamp. After I had already paid agency the fees the courier returned document saying EACH page of translation needs the 2800 baht(dont recall exact cost) stamp. I took my papers and got the fee refunded. This was a scam created by courier with MOFA as I learned literally hundreds if not thousands of translated pages of business documents are routinely accepted by courts without each and every page stamped, just the cover page. Court acceped my documents "as is" although I have a thai lawyer involved.

atyclb · May 12, 2013

I'm not sure where you live but I assume you are aware that you can get divorced at any amphur.

I recently got divorced at the amphur in Banglamung (Pattaya) and all I needed was my passport, (no certified translations, or anything like that), a copy of my marriage certificate and my wife needed her ID card and her copy of the marriage certificate. We both had witnesses.

That is all.

The whole process took about 30 minutes.

I suggest you shop around a bit....

Well 2 years back some research by a Thai relative (research after the divorce - husband and wife both Thai) discovered what Mobi mentioned above.

But in this case (before the husband di some further checking) the lady officer at the Amphur office (in Bangkok) insisted that the husband had to give the wife a divorce settlement of at least 100,000Baht cash to be put on the officers desk at the Amphur office, and 5% of same would be taken as a govt., fee plus the published fee of 20Baht.

Husband (so I'm told) tried to discuss the matter / negotiate with the lady officer but was told in no uncertain terms that he should shut up and not challenge a govt., officer.

Unfortunately the husband went ahead and paid the 100,000Baht, but mostly because he was frightened of his wife's mother and her brothers.

The lady Amphur officer has since been dismissed from the civil service, for some other reasons.

But lets be honest folks, you could come across similar stuff in many places, including so called first world countries.

IN US the similar stuff is IMO not about money scamming. It is about city workers that are poorly motivate to get off their asses to do their job. Also attitude issues however a smile and some tactful charm (usually females) can do wonders.

HUAHIN62 · May 12, 2013

Sounds much easier to divorce here than in my home country. There you must first go for councelling, then get an attorney and the high court must grant the divorce, it costs about B 100k and takes a year.

Khun Watchaporn · May 12, 2013

When I got divorced from my first Thai wife, I only had to show a passport and the marriage certificate. Perhaps it's a personality issue.

Yes Sir!

The OP is wrong, that's for certain.

It definitely isn't the Thai official possibly being a class-A retard like the rest of them, lord no.

oneday · May 12, 2013

While agree with the friendly advice gelgolo has provide to "ask the authority" first, I would point out that many people (Thai citizens included) have little experience dealing with the various Thai governmental offices. Having no knowledge of the process at hand, many people seek the nearest source of information and proceed based on that information. Nationality has little to do with lack of experience or knowledge in dealing with Thai government offices (glegolo excepted) and to suggest so is rather ignorant and very biased.

TV forum's purpose is to assist the unknowing in navigating the minefield of Thai government regulations and requirements, not to disparage those less knowledgable than the experienced experts.

In other words I was right...
Glegolo

Not hardly...far from it. If you read very carefully what the OP wrote you will see that when he did do as they requested when he went to their office the fist time, they still were not satisfied, "...who now decided that the certified copy of the passport is not acceptable and must be approved by the Ministry of foreign affairs..." and not knowing he would have to go to yet another government office he was completely unaware of that office's requirement to feed the families of the translators located in their offices.

Please tell me you are just trying to push buttons and that you really don't believe your own clap-trap nonsense.

The only thing I agree with is when you need to do something in this country that involves a government office you are best advised to go to the exact office you will be doing business with and ask them and hope you've asked the right person and that the answer won't change because the person you asked is not there on the day you go.

Edited May 12, 2013 by oneday

Khun Watchaporn · May 12, 2013

A valuable lesson in Thainess.

Don't ever forget it.

Estrada · May 12, 2013

My Thai wife was married here in Bangkok to a British man and moved to join him in the UK where she found out that he did not like to work, drawing the dole while doing odd jobs, drinking and doing drugs. She had to go out and make money to support her daughter and herself. She left him and came to Thailand with myself and although she could have claimed half his house and money left from his previous wife who had died, she asked for nothing from him. When it came to us having to get married here, she paid her husband all the expenses for getting the divorce at the Amphur in Prakanong. She still never asked for any money from him which is amazing, but this shows that there are plenty of Thai women who are not after your money.

Khun Watchaporn · May 12, 2013

^ Absolutely.

And it's amazing how many of them are married to anonymous internet posters.

hellodolly · May 12, 2013

I'm not sure where you live but I assume you are aware that you can get divorced at any amphur.

I recently got divorced at the amphur in Banglamung (Pattaya) and all I needed was my passport, (no certified translations, or anything like that), a copy of my marriage certificate and my wife needed her ID card and her copy of the marriage certificate. We both had witnesses.

That is all.

The whole process took about 30 minutes.

I suggest you shop around a bit....

Well 2 years back some research by a Thai relative (research after the divorce - husband and wife both Thai) discovered what Mobi mentioned above.

But in this case (before the husband di some further checking) the lady officer at the Amphur office (in Bangkok) insisted that the husband had to give the wife a divorce settlement of at least 100,000Baht cash to be put on the officers desk at the Amphur office, and 5% of same would be taken as a govt., fee plus the published fee of 20Baht.

Husband (so I'm told) tried to discuss the matter / negotiate with the lady officer but was told in no uncertain terms that he should shut up and not challenge a govt., officer.

Unfortunately the husband went ahead and paid the 100,000Baht, but mostly because he was frightened of his wife's mother and her brothers.

The lady Amphur officer has since been dismissed from the civil service, for some other reasons.

But lets be honest folks, you could come across similar stuff in many places, including so called first world countries.

In many countries it might be 95,000 baht a month for years to the ex.

USNret · May 12, 2013

A valuable lesson in Thainess.

Don't ever forget it.

Forget it, remember it... what difference does it make? Everything will be different next time around, and lessons previously learned will be useless in the future. This is Thailand!

Khun Watchaporn · May 12, 2013

A valuable lesson in Thainess.

Don't ever forget it.

Everything will be different next time around

And that folks, is the lesson.

andydarlothailand · May 12, 2013

I got an uncontested divorced July 2012 at the Banglamung offices.

Rather than paying for lawyers etc. I just Googled 'divorce in Thailand' and found the relevant info I needed very easily. My GF, at the time, is a Thai attorney at law and confirmed what I'd found out.

From memory the only documents I had were my passport and the original copy of the marriage cert - issued at Soi 54 Bangkok where we were legally married back in 2003 (possibly both in Thai and the official translation).

My wife had her passport and ID card.

I think the fee was 50 Baht and my wife paid for a few photocopies.

We both signed a few forms and that was it - all done in approx 15 minutes.

The only thing that could have cost money (approx 5 - 6 thousand Baht) was an official translation of the divorce certificate if we wanted it - done by them. I didn't need one as I'm living and working in Thailand and can get it done as and if necessary) and I told my wife to get it done by a company back in England (as she lives there) if she needs it as we used them before and they were very good at reasonable cost.

Without doubt the quickest and easiest thing with regards to officialdom I have ever done in Thailand was getting divoced. And all for less that 100 Baht which the ex paid.

Khun Watchaporn · May 12, 2013

It seems that government officials purposefully lying to citizens (and others) in order to greatly inconvenience them is acceptable to some members.

Isn't it sad how defensive these people get about Thainess.

krisb · May 12, 2013

This is exactly what i mean by its so much easier with anything to do with government offices outside Thailand. Just stupid places to deal with.

Khun Watchaporn · May 12, 2013

^ See post number 2.

belg · May 12, 2013

you speak thai? maybe the wife mumbles something in thai to the officers to make it as impossible because she still loves you (your money)

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