The Worst Samui Season Ever

[Khun Jean]

Amazing.

First i was the subject of a poll to get banned because i was negative. The moment i come with suggestions and am constructive other people take over.

Remember for tourists Koh Samui is great. If you come from a big city or cold country without beaches it is paradise.

Do you think if someone from one of the Greek islands goes to Samui they will calling it paradise, or just another island, they probably think Bangkok is fantastic.

It depends a lot of what your normal circumstances are. For some Amsterdam is paradise. For me it was my home town, one with so many problems i had to leave. Tourist are not aware of this and they don't have to.

Samui has a LOT of potential. 5* Hotels with garbage next door was mentioned. If i was the manager of that 5* hotel i would take care of it. In Thailand it is 'mai pen rai'.

If i was a guest of a 5* hotel i would suggest it to the management. BTW 5* Hotels are not my thing, i am more of a 3* guy myself.

If you look around you'll notice a lot of 'resorts' have walls around their place. Anything outside of it is completely unimportant to them. 4 and 5 star hotel/resorts will keep everything inside nice looking, not really maintained for the long run. If you look at places 3-4 years old, they look 20 years old. This is the tropics so cleaning regularly is a must. Proper maintenance is not only sweeping the floor, or putting on another layer of inferior paint.

Look at some 10 year old 'resorts'. Broken footpaths, not functioning toilets, airconditionings, leaking roofs, 10 year old matrasses that have seen a lot of 'action', etc.

Their idea of doing business is just sitting around and do nothing and wait until the money comes streaming in. There are so many tourists that even the most run down 'resort' is full. No money put in maintanance means more money in the pocket NOW. Remember THERE IS NO TOMORROW!!

And guess what, they are 100% full during high season and have a good occupancy in mid season.

Many resorts are leased for 5-10 years. If there is only 1 or 2 years left on the contract, only absolutely necessary repairs are done, with the lowest quality material and workmanship for the lowest prices. In high season full anyway. Easy money. When the lease is finished they already know the owner of the land is going to ask rediculous prices and they have to move out. Not one baht more than absolutely necessary to keep going is spent. How do i know this, i talked to a few 'owners' as i am interested in this kind of business.

If your interested, keymoney for a 10 lease is 40 million and 200.000 baht rent a month, the 26 rundown bungalows you have to rebuild (ahum i mean upgrade) yourself. 10 years ago it was 1 million keymoney and 15.000 baht rent. No wonder the current people are unable to continue their business, no wonder they are 'grumpy'. Worked hard for 10 years and now when finally Samui is getting big numbers of tourists the contract is almost finished. Some will say 'Som nam na'. Some will feel sorry for them.

Next one to move in is probably another 'Spa'. The new wonder 'word' for doing business. One 'spa' after another. It is not more than the usual massage and putting on some mud on your face kind of spa. But it sounds really 'hi-so'. A resort can ask 1000-1500 baht a night, but a 'spa' can easily ask 2000-3000. And if you are used to work 5 days a week in an office, yes those 'spa's are refreshing and only 40 dollars per night!, btw going for a swim and having a walk on the beach is also refreshing.

If you live in Samui you have to laugh a little about the tourists. You can see it on their faces. Completely blisfull. Standing in the back of a jeep, wind through their hairs. So much freedom! Nobody to tell you you have to sit down and wear a seatbelt and getting a 200 dollar fine. Driving for the first time in their life on their rented motorcycles with breaks that are barely working, driving around looking at those amazing palm trees. (Coconut trees btw, and they are dying).

It is so different as their normal surroundings, of course it is a wonderfull feeling. Then the bug bites. You want to stay, forever! From that moment on it will change.

If you live in Samui, those blissful moments will disappear. Nothing more than normal. Some will maintain that state by drinking a lot. Other start to 'whine' and stay and keep on being unhappy and whine some more. Others whine and move on.

I have lived in Bangkok, it was great and i still think it is great. It is not healthy because of the polluted air, that is why i moved to Samui. I found out that Samui is also not healthy but in a different way. It has some psychological effect i think. It slowly gets to you. So many things that are not 'right' or feel unfriendly. Try living at the beach. A lot of people dream about it, for me it was just a beach. I have a house at the beach in the Netherlands, a beach is not so special for me. Now imagine someone has decided burning their garbage right in front of your house is a good idea. Not burning but smoldering. A special art to produce the most smoke. Toxic smoke i might add. They have no clue. One time ok. 2 times ok but a little irritated, 3 times getting angry, 'yai jin jin', 4 times i put it out myself... 10th time i gave up and moved. I understand it is like the old days, but in the old days it were bananaleaves, wood and coconuts. Now it is mixed with plastic bags from Lotus, plastic bags from a portion of khao niauw, plastic from the bag of chips, plastic flip flops, old bucket of paint, etc.. Why they do it, too LAZY to put it in a big bag and put it out front so the garbage man can pick it up and burn it in the incinerator. Will you notice this when you are a tourist, no of course not.

Is it unique to Samui, no it is not have a look in the Chiang Mai thread.

I don't want to wait for everything to be fixed, it will take too long, i did not have a part in ruining it, and i will not wait years and years hoping it will be better as in my believe it will only get worse.

Besides i have a responsibility to my children which means without proper schools it is not the right place even if it was the paradise that smiles at you from every glossy brochure.

Ok, now off to the 'positive' thread to give some positive advice and guidance.

Edited March 23, 2006 by Khun Jean

[somchai jones]

Quote tax

"rather than have to put up with the shallow two faced welcome that greets so many visitors to thailand these days"

thailand sells itself on the "smile" , the "hospitality" , the "warm welcome" , the "generosity of spirit" and the "friendliness".

when those expectations are not met and new visitors are treated in an offhand way , they will complain , and rightly so.

too many people on samui who work in the tourist industry , ( airport workers , taxi drivers , shopkeepers , shop staff , bungalow employees , waiting staff in restaurants , police , etc.etc.etc) have what can only be described as a bad attitude towards visitors. visitors are often treated with contempt. the staff are lazy , they wont go out of their way to help.

samui , unfortunately , is becoming famous for this.

the poster who could not get any help at the airport is absolutely right to complain , the airport staff were too lazy to move their asses to help a visitor solve his problem.

samui , (and other destinations here) are becoming more and more like the west , with poor service and poorly motivated staff.

why should people travel half way round the world for poor service and aggressive employees when they can find it closer to home for half the price.

without the welcome , without the hospitality , without the friendliness , without the generosity of spirit , without the exceptional value , without the things that thailand has built its reputation on , what exactly does thailand have to offer ??

answer ................. very , very little indeed.

unless you are looking for poor service , 100% humidity , a rising crime rate , disrespect for foriegners , crumbling infrastructure , flooded roads , out of control development , unlevel playing fields for foriegn investment , seedy shacks selling beer and sex , pavements that look like war zones , and roads that are racetracks.

My word, you're even complaining about the humidity now! That surely is beyond the control of the Thai nation...

As for this quote...'why should people travel half way round the world for poor service and aggressive employees when they can find it closer to home for half the price.'

Where do you mean exactly?

[LaoPo]

without the welcome , without the hospitality , without the friendliness , without the generosity of spirit , without the exceptional value , without the things that thailand has built its reputation on ,

what exactly does thailand have to offer ??

answer ................. very , very little indeed.

Right, it's time for you to move back to your own country; there are no withouts in your beloved West Yorkshire/Britain, right? ...when did you buy the last newspaper....this morning?

Read the news and you'd be surprised.

Oh yes, stop bashing here and try to find some bashing-to-do about the high rise buildings in Hua Hin.

HUA HIN your Favorite holiday and expat destination. Dream on.

I didn't even put the REAL High Risers...

LaoPo

Edited March 24, 2006 by LaoPo

[somchai jones]

Oh yes, stop bashing here and try to find some bashing-to-do about the high rise buildings in Hua Hin.

LaoPo[/color]

Good point. One that often gets overlooked.

Although the Spa type resorts are not really my cup of tea, they're a hel_l of a lot more attractive than high rise hotels.

[Donz]

Coming at it from the other side of the coin, as it were, let me tell you how difficult it is to be pleasant all the time to rude, drunken people with no manners, no class and no patience. Too often have I seen farang treat Thais with contempt and bad behavior when the only problem has been that the farang can't get what they want when they want it. Deal with this for a few years and you become jaded and sick of farang.

When complaining about poor service look around you first and see how many of the customers are polite to the Thais first. I have seen some truly appalling behavior and it is no surprise to me to go to a very touristy area and find staff with a bad attitude. Thai people have a difficult time telling farang no, I don't so I very rarely have to deal with poor behavior in my place. Also, seems most farang will think twice about being rude to another farang but have no problem doing so to a Thai.

Absolutely spot on.

[BattyBatty]

Khun Jean

I have tried reading your post with an open mind and objective view... but honestly, I still don’t get it.

It seems there is no right or wrong point of view here - it obviously boils down to personal perspective.

For example, bags of rubbish outside a 5* hotel does not even remotely bother me.... to me, its just Thailand. On a larger scale, take Bangkok for example; 4/5* hotels can be seen (mainly in the old town) with tropical landscape gardens, fountains, marble entrance etc etc - whilst directly next door adjacent to the hotel, just feet away you may find a small soi full of hand built shacks overlooking a klong full of drunk Klong Gypsies blaring out Isaan folk music all night. It’s just Thailand.... opposites go hand in hand everywhere.

I once had a small house surrounded by many rai of vacant land, surrounded by coconut, mango and papaya trees. It was bliss, real quiet and pleasant. After a few months, a group of Isaan builders moved onto the land.... dozens and dozens of shacks, fires going day and night, music playing loud, just kinda took over this quiet little spot and took over the peace and quiet. Did I care? Did me fark! Thailand IS Thailand and if I have learnt one thing it's to chill out, mind my own business and get on with my own life. Who cares? fark it, life is to short.

As for the resorts.... really? You see them as run down? I just don’t notice these things. I tend to look out for the friendliness of the staff, the food, is the pool clean?, what’s the service like?.... I am trying not to offend here, but if you are the kinda bloke that is lucky enough to reside in the tropics, yet notices a bad paint job or cracked walkways then jeez, just about speaks for its self really. Who the fark cares about a lick of paint?

Again, this is where the personal perspective comes into play; you say you don’t want to wait for everything to be fixed, I say I don’t want to see everything fixed. I like the disorganization, again its part of the charm.

Look at Sillypore - what a boring place man. Yes it’s beautiful, clean and organized, but what a boring, clinical place to live.

Hua Hin is not too far behind in places with its pristine boulevards, pavements etc. Boring.

Tourists not using seatbelts? Sigh... who cares? Again, different points of view - you probably see 5 Thais bunched up on one 20 year old motorbike and consider the health and safety ramifications.... I just see a bunch of happy Thais on a bike, and chuckle to myself.

This is probably why you have left - the island just isn’t for you. I doubt it ever suited you really, as most of the points you object to have been around for many years, there is just more of it now.

Samui is great. Sure it has its problems, but I would hate to see ALL of these problems addressed. I like the farked up aspect.

I used to wake up in the morning, do a little work on the computer for a few hours, then swing in my hammock for a couple hours, ride down to the beach and sup a few beers, back home to crash out for a couple hours, then hit the bars and have a laugh with my buddies. At the end of it all, I might go home with a cracking looking bird and party. My days were simply too much firkin fun to notice a few bags of rubbish… and you certainly wouldn’t catch me handing out Dorlux Paint color cards to hotel managers…. “That’s not Aztec Sunset! It’s Orange! Paint it again!

[Samui Coconut]

Samui is doing fine guys and girls....just fine !!! and if you don't like it....go somewhere else and write a book. May be then all you "negatives" out there get the recognition you are so desperately longing for....get real !!!!!!!

[Rooo]

Khun Jean quotes....

If your interested, keymoney for a 10 lease is 40 million and 200.000 baht rent a month, the 26 rundown bungalows you have to rebuild (ahum i mean upgrade) yourself. 10 years ago it was 1 million keymoney and 15.000 baht rent. No wonder the current people are unable to continue their business, no wonder they are 'grumpy'. Worked hard for 10 years and now when finally Samui is getting big numbers of tourists the contract is almost finished. Some will say 'Som nam na'. Some will feel sorry for them.

KJ if you pay key money +amount of tax payable by landlord eg: 40M + 17M = 57M.That then can claimed back on tax , spread over a period of years .It is classified as advance rent .

40M for 10 year lease?26 bungalows?

The way I look at it KJ , 20 year lease,40 M key money+tax. Leasing an old resort is not the way to go,you face all but the same costs as building a new one.or simply bulldoze & start again.

If you wish me to post you all the breakdowns I'll be more the happy to do so.

So in short if the right tax is paid, key money is just bulk rent in advance & sign of goodwill & liquidity.

Landlords have the right to renegotiate,you don't leave it to the last minute ,you start 3-4 years before the lease expires.By negotiating early enough & improving the structures accordingly,it is in the landlords interest too.Remember the better shape the resort is in ,the better the chances.

Edited March 24, 2006 by Rooo

[greg.d]

Khun Jean

I have tried reading your post with an open mind and objective view... but honestly, I still don’t get it.

It seems there is no right or wrong point of view here - it obviously boils down to personal perspective.

For example, bags of rubbish outside a 5* hotel does not even remotely bother me.... to me, its just Thailand. On a larger scale, take Bangkok for example; 4/5* hotels can be seen (mainly in the old town) with tropical landscape gardens, fountains, marble entrance etc etc - whilst directly next door adjacent to the hotel, just feet away you may find a small soi full of hand built shacks overlooking a klong full of drunk Klong Gypsies blaring out Isaan folk music all night. It’s just Thailand.... opposites go hand in hand everywhere.

I once had a small house surrounded by many rai of vacant land, surrounded by coconut, mango and papaya trees. It was bliss, real quiet and pleasant. After a few months, a group of Isaan builders moved onto the land.... dozens and dozens of shacks, fires going day and night, music playing loud, just kinda took over this quiet little spot and took over the peace and quiet. Did I care? Did me fark! Thailand IS Thailand and if I have learnt one thing it's to chill out, mind my own business and get on with my own life. Who cares? fark it, life is to short.

As for the resorts.... really? You see them as run down? I just don’t notice these things. I tend to look out for the friendliness of the staff, the food, is the pool clean?, what’s the service like?.... I am trying not to offend here, but if you are the kinda bloke that is lucky enough to reside in the tropics, yet notices a bad paint job or cracked walkways then jeez, just about speaks for its self really. Who the fark cares about a lick of paint?

Again, this is where the personal perspective comes into play; you say you don’t want to wait for everything to be fixed, I say I don’t want to see everything fixed. I like the disorganization, again its part of the charm.

Look at Sillypore - what a boring place man. Yes it’s beautiful, clean and organized, but what a boring, clinical place to live.

Hua Hin is not too far behind in places with its pristine boulevards, pavements etc. Boring.

Tourists not using seatbelts? Sigh... who cares? Again, different points of view - you probably see 5 Thais bunched up on one 20 year old motorbike and consider the health and safety ramifications.... I just see a bunch of happy Thais on a bike, and chuckle to myself.

This is probably why you have left - the island just isn’t for you. I doubt it ever suited you really, as most of the points you object to have been around for many years, there is just more of it now.

Samui is great. Sure it has its problems, but I would hate to see ALL of these problems addressed. I like the farked up aspect.

I used to wake up in the morning, do a little work on the computer for a few hours, then swing in my hammock for a couple hours, ride down to the beach and sup a few beers, back home to crash out for a couple hours, then hit the bars and have a laugh with my buddies. At the end of it all, I might go home with a cracking looking bird and party. My days were simply too much firkin fun to notice a few bags of rubbish… and you certainly wouldn’t catch me handing out Dorlux Paint color cards to hotel managers…. “That’s not Aztec Sunset! It’s Orange! Paint it again!

Could not have said it better myself.

Spot on

[Khun Jean]

Tourists not using seatbelts? Sigh... who cares? Again, different points of view - you probably see 5 Thais bunched up on one 20 year old motorbike and consider the health and safety ramifications.... I just see a bunch of happy Thais on a bike, and chuckle to myself.

This is probably why you have left - the island just isn’t for you. I doubt it ever suited you really, as most of the points you object to have been around for many years, there is just more of it now.

Samui is great. Sure it has its problems, but I would hate to see ALL of these problems addressed. I like the farked up aspect.

Just read this part again, and interpret it a little different.

If you live in Samui you have to laugh a little about the tourists. You can see it on their faces. Completely blisfull. Standing in the back of a jeep, wind through their hairs. So much freedom! Nobody to tell you you have to sit down and wear a seatbelt and getting a 200 dollar fine.

You see, we both have a chucle when we see that. And it is very understandable when they feel like that.

The world changes a lot when you have small children. Would you put your own children in the back of a pickup. I wouldn't. I could care less if someone else is doing it. I mind my own business.

I used to wake up in the morning, do a little work on the computer for a few hours, then swing in my hammock for a couple hours, ride down to the beach and sup a few beers, back home to crash out for a couple hours, then hit the bars and have a laugh with my buddies. At the end of it all, I might go home with a cracking looking bird and party. My days were simply too much firkin fun to notice a few bags of rubbish… and you certainly wouldn’t catch me handing out Dorlux Paint color cards to hotel managers…. “That’s not Aztec Sunset! It’s Orange! Paint it again!

I would not even mind if you were my neighbour, unless of course you make loud noise at 3 am, drive a midlife crisis bike, or are shagging your girl on the balcony.

If you describe how your day is, i feel it is nice for a few days, after that it gets repetitive and extremely boring.

If you think garbage next to a five star resort is not bothering people, you are so very wrong.

Especially if they are used to something like the Bahamas or the Maldives. It is way, way down lower quality than those destinations.

We are just different people, with different values.

If someone says to me i am too negative, i can say about other that they are too positive.

Everybody can make up there mind by themselves. I explained in other posts a while back what happened while i was there and the reasons i did not like it. Those experiences and my opinions can be valuable for someone with the same value system as i have.

If i was not married and did not have two small children and if i liked to drink a few beers and have a laugh with my drinking buddies, i would probably think Samui is great. As i am not all these things i see it differently.

One thing is for sure, i never bother anybody with my presence. It are the 'drinking buddies' with their girlfriends that bother others. As they did bother me. I don't want to live somewhere in the jungle and escaping it is impossible on a small island. I want something better for my children, and i don't want them to think while they are growing up that walking around half naked, with many tatoos and beer bottle in hand is normal behaviour.

[BattyBatty]

Well, we both agree it's down to different values and way of life.

This made me laugh though..... "drive a midlife crisis bike"

Ha! Quality, made me chuckle that. Im strictly a honda wave man, me.

[fisherd3]

The fact is in many third world societies the concept of providing good service in order to auger further business is completely alien. The only thing that occurs to the service vendor is obtaining the most baht for the least cost in time or other investment.

This happens world wide and is not unknown in so called developed economies.

Samui is a very special place indeed, its people are a breed apart and regard themselves as a race apart. They show distain for even fellow Thais so a farang stands no chance of getting any genuine 'respect' when it comes down to the nitty gritty.

I know of a Thai Chef from Bangkok who went to work in a hotel of quality in Samui, but was forced to leave because his underlings questioned why a Bangkok person should be ordering them about because they were true Samuians.

The Samuins killed his dog.

Having said that all this must add to the unique charcater and delight of Samui which I so far love, having not quite become intimate enough with it to merit being blown away by the local mafia!!!!

[gisele]

Coming at it from the other side of the coin, as it were, let me tell you how difficult it is to be pleasant all the time to rude, drunken people with no manners, no class and no patience. Too often have I seen farang treat Thais with contempt and bad behavior when the only problem has been that the farang can't get what they want when they want it. Deal with this for a few years and you become jaded and sick of farang.

When complaining about poor service look around you first and see how many of the customers are polite to the Thais first. I have seen some truly appalling behavior and it is no surprise to me to go to a very touristy area and find staff with a bad attitude. Thai people have a difficult time telling farang no, I don't so I very rarely have to deal with poor behavior in my place. Also, seems most farang will think twice about being rude to another farang but have no problem doing so to a Thai.

Here's another anecdote:

This past weekend, I was driving my motorbike near the Int. Thai Hospital road, I don't like driving a motorbike so I go rather slowly which is a good thing since all of a sudden a farang zips out from the hotel driveway crossing the road. Then a dog comes out running after him, the farang's reaction was to pannic and skid on the other side of the road. He scrambles off, looking at the crowd, he starts yelling at the dog, then yells at the Thai boy who ran to get the dog. Just one moment in time, and I don't know what occured before this moment but still

[somchai jones]

Again, this is where the personal perspective comes into play; you say you don’t want to wait for everything to be fixed, I say I don’t want to see everything fixed. I like the disorganization, again its part of the charm.

Look at Sillypore - what a boring place man. Yes it’s beautiful, clean and organized, but what a boring, clinical place to live.

Couldn't have put it better.

I visit Singapore regularly in my work and it's fine for a day or two but that's about it.

The chaos/oddness/idiosincracy of Thailand is what charms me. God forbid it ever becomes a Singapore clone. That's the first step to becoming an Auckland clone!

[fazlitaufek]

Our 'welcome' to Koh Samui, consisted of the hotel pickup arriving an hour later than our flight.

I asked at the 'hotel booking' service at the airport if it would be possibile for them to contact the hotel (after they had quietened down of course), but they rather tersely told me to go and use the public phones. When I said I had no change (I left it at the previous hotel as part of the tip), they suggested I go buy something from the bar. Out of the 6 or so public phones, only 1 worked - and this took about 5 attempts before a connection worked.

Needless to say, the unhelpful and unfriendly nature for the first time in Thailand was not a good start, and Koh Samui generally went downhill from there.

And whilst Samui may be 'full' and the bars and restaurants empty - then this is probably indicative of the cliental that Samui is attracting (& I do not mean this in a derogatory sense - just that a back-packer or a cheepy package tourist are less like to spend their hard-earned money).

The old saying that you will reap what you sow will apply to Samui just as it does to others.

i want to go to Samui this coming May and listening to your whining, you should go to Phangan. I have been to Phanagn twice and the people there are great. Great Thais and fellow backpackers are mostly friendly enough. Cheap food and rooms. A great party atmosphere. I hope Samui is not too bad. I know it is a tourist's place, not a backpacker's. Wish me luck

[LaoPo]

Our 'welcome' to Koh Samui, consisted of the hotel pickup arriving an hour later than our flight.

I asked at the 'hotel booking' service at the airport if it would be possibile for them to contact the hotel (after they had quietened down of course), but they rather tersely told me to go and use the public phones. When I said I had no change (I left it at the previous hotel as part of the tip), they suggested I go buy something from the bar. Out of the 6 or so public phones, only 1 worked - and this took about 5 attempts before a connection worked.

Needless to say, the unhelpful and unfriendly nature for the first time in Thailand was not a good start, and Koh Samui generally went downhill from there.

And whilst Samui may be 'full' and the bars and restaurants empty - then this is probably indicative of the cliental that Samui is attracting (& I do not mean this in a derogatory sense - just that a back-packer or a cheepy package tourist are less like to spend their hard-earned money).

The old saying that you will reap what you sow will apply to Samui just as it does to others.

i want to go to Samui this coming May and listening to your whining, you should go to Phangan. I have been to Phanagn twice and the people there are great. Great Thais and fellow backpackers are mostly friendly enough. Cheap food and rooms. A great party atmosphere. I hope Samui is not too bad. I know it is a tourist's place, not a backpacker's.

Wish me luck

I wish you all the fun and luck in the world on Samui and Phangan

LaoPo

[Donz]

I havent been to Phangan, but Samui is great, cheweng has a pretty good night life and the clubs around green mango go off.

Dont listen too all the negative stuff, there will always be people who will love and hate a place, just go find out for yourself, its what you make it to be.

People complain about abit of paint or taxi drivers ripping them off 20 baht, mate your on holidays to enjoy yourself, things like that should not stop you from having a good time.

Go there drink the cheap booze, swim in the nice beaches and go on a few tours and you will love it.

Go there to have fun and not point out the negatives and you will want to go back