Buying A Condo Off Plan!

[seadoo]

Just paying a deposit (like 20K mentioned above) and monthly payments doesn't seem very high risk.  If it all goes South for any reason then the loss is limited.  If you then also pick a company that has a track record of actually delivering buildings to spec, then I don't see too many downsides. 

Yes some very big Bangkok builders are now starting to build condos in Pattaya, they should be fairly safe I would say.

 

I know a few guys that have earned good money by buying off plan, they buy the good units and then sell them when the building is completed for typical 200-400K baht profit pr unit.

 

Not many condo projects go belly up, over 98% are finished build.

 

Off-course don't buy from a guy on the street but do your home work first before signing any contract & parting any money.

 

200k - 400k baht profit. Small potatoes for the hassles and risks involved. You only have to come unstuck once and that profit becomes a whopping loss.

Assume you pay 2 million and you through a risky propostion make your 200-400k profit. For usually a 2 year plus building time usually much longer from promo to completion.

Why not lock the 2 million into a fixed term deposit rate at 5% and gross around 200,000 over the same 2 years with no risk and no hassle and if you suddenly need your money back you can break to fixed term with the bank.

[Tolley]

Just paying a deposit (like 20K mentioned above) and monthly payments doesn't seem very high risk. If it all goes South for any reason then the loss is limited. If you then also pick a company that has a track record of actually delivering buildings to spec, then I don't see too many downsides.

Yes some very big Bangkok builders are now starting to build condos in Pattaya, they should be fairly safe I would say.

I know a few guys that have earned good money by buying off plan, they buy the good units and then sell them when the building is completed for typical 200-400K baht profit pr unit.

Not many condo projects go belly up, over 98% are finished build.

Off-course don't buy from a guy on the street but do your home work first before signing any contract & parting any money.

200k - 400k baht profit. Small potatoes for the hassles and risks involved. You only have to come unstuck once and that profit becomes a whopping loss.

Assume you pay 2 million and you through a risky propostion make your 200-400k profit. For usually a 2 year plus building time usually much longer from promo to completion.

Why not lock the 2 million into a fixed term deposit rate at 5% and gross around 200,000 over the same 2 years with no risk and no hassle and if you suddenly need your money back you can break to fixed term with the bank.

I got to agree. Small gain for huge risk. Alternatively you could invest in the Thai stock market. There are some good companies in Thailand returning some really good yields.

[tropo]

I got to agree. Small gain for huge risk. Alternatively you could invest in the Thai stock market. There are some good companies in Thailand returning some really good yields.

It's not only the risk. You've got a fair amount of stress over a long period - unless of course it's only pocket change and you don't care.

[jbrain]

Just paying a deposit (like 20K mentioned above) and monthly payments doesn't seem very high risk. If it all goes South for any reason then the loss is limited. If you then also pick a company that has a track record of actually delivering buildings to spec, then I don't see too many downsides.

Yes some very big Bangkok builders are now starting to build condos in Pattaya, they should be fairly safe I would say.

I know a few guys that have earned good money by buying off plan, they buy the good units and then sell them when the building is completed for typical 200-400K baht profit pr unit.

Not many condo projects go belly up, over 98% are finished build.

Off-course don't buy from a guy on the street but do your home work first before signing any contract & parting any money.

200k - 400k baht profit. Small potatoes for the hassles and risks involved. You only have to come unstuck once and that profit becomes a whopping loss.

Assume you pay 2 million and you through a risky propostion make your 200-400k profit. For usually a 2 year plus building time usually much longer from promo to completion.

Why not lock the 2 million into a fixed term deposit rate at 5% and gross around 200,000 over the same 2 years with no risk and no hassle and if you suddenly need your money back you can break to fixed term with the bank.

Any suggestions as to where in Thailand you can get 5% on a fixed account ?

[seadoo]

 

 

Just paying a deposit (like 20K mentioned above) and monthly payments doesn't seem very high risk.  If it all goes South for any reason then the loss is limited.  If you then also pick a company that has a track record of actually delivering buildings to spec, then I don't see too many downsides. 

Yes some very big Bangkok builders are now starting to build condos in Pattaya, they should be fairly safe I would say.

 

I know a few guys that have earned good money by buying off plan, they buy the good units and then sell them when the building is completed for typical 200-400K baht profit pr unit.

 

Not many condo projects go belly up, over 98% are finished build.

 

Off-course don't buy from a guy on the street but do your home work first before signing any contract & parting any money.

 

 

200k - 400k baht profit. Small potatoes for the hassles and risks involved. You only have to come unstuck once and that profit becomes a whopping loss.

 

Assume you pay 2 million and you through a risky propostion make your 200-400k profit. For usually a 2 year plus building time usually much longer from promo to completion.

Why not lock the 2 million into a fixed term deposit rate at 5% and gross around 200,000 over the same 2 years with no risk and no hassle and if you suddenly need your money back you can break to fixed term with the bank.

 

Any suggestions as to where in Thailand you can get 5% on a fixed account ?

I never said Thailand as you would be most likely bringing the cash into the country you could shop around country to country very easy these days.

[balo]

A 2ft by 1ft model of the complex.

Also included a price plan and a few pictures.

There were show rooms.

That's "off plan".

Basically buying a property that is t actually visible.

The more I right, the more I persuade myself not to buy.

I purchased off plan myself from the Matrix Group , because I knew I could trust them that the condo would be finished in time based on their earlier reputation.

Yes I saved 500k to buy offplan for a 1 br apartment. But in my case they didnt finish in time , in my building they were 6 months behind schedule and when you want to move in asap that caused me a lot of stress, time and money. And another thing , I was not warned when I signed the contract 3 years ago that they would start building another condo next to mine and blocking the view from the balcony, also I have to live with constuction noise for the next 2 years. I cant sleep at night because of barking dogs and karaoke music , and then the noise during daytime.

So now I just want to sell as quickly as possible.

So my advice after this terrible experience is never buy off plan! Go see the finished building and rooms before you buy and sign anything.

Edited May 12, 2013 by balo

[tropo]

Another problem not mentioned. You are taking chances that the quality of construction is not up to par with expectations. That's not only important for your individual condo but the building as a whole. How good (fast) are the elevators? How good is the management? How good is maintenance? Is the pool going to be well maintained?...etc etc.

The developers always talk big about quality, but people who live here know that expecting quality work and actually getting it are too different things. The work is all done by contractors on time restraints. They'll do the least they can to get paid... and of course there's that ever present "she'll be right" or "good enough" Thai attitude about everything.

Edited May 12, 2013 by tropo

[whitethai]

How do you people stay in Thailand without having to do a job?

I was going to buy a condo in 2007 from some English people building costing £300 a month for 2 years but decided not to and now the email address of salesman does not reply so good thing I suspect

Why do you not find thai wife already owning property?

I am possibly back in Thailand for little holiday in 3 weeks and really want to try stay there someohw but the work thing is a big big problem

Edited May 12, 2013 by whitethai

[tropo]

Why do you not find thai wife already owning property?

A gold digger?

I didn't chose my wife based on what she owned, but if you can find a good one with a house, good for you.

[Crazy chef 1]

i wouldn't hand over any money to any real estate agent for anything off plan in any country-especially NOT in Thailand.i think you must be kidding or even trolling?

but hey,if you have real plans to invest some cash-i got really great pans for my next vacation and afterwards i will let you know how it was you may even get some pic's....

sorry mate i couldn't resist

[fakename]

Yeah, there are thousands of Thai ladies that own land, and looking for an old farang, on a 25,000 baht pension. Good luck finding her.

[checkoutcomplete]

From what I've been reading. You can't win either way.

I spoke to someone today who bought a condo that was actually there, he lived there for 12 months, then noticed the land in front was in the process of being developed, now his lovely view has gone.

Think a condo on koh chang will be the better option. Unless there going to start building on water, my view won't be disappearing fast.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

And another thing , I was not warned when I signed the contract 3 years ago that they would start building another condo next to mine and blocking the view from the balcony, also I have to live with constuction noise for the next 2 years.

In fairness to the developer, it is reasonable to assume that any vacant plot next to a condo and in or near Pattaya will at some point have another condo appear on it. Nearly all the new buildings have this problem and it is often the same developer who builds the second (third, fourth) building. Often using the same project name.

The same applies to many other parts of Thailand also, and indeed the world.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

How do you people stay in Thailand without having to do a job?

For me it's early retirement based on having a shed-load of money in the bank, all earned honestly through hard work back in Europe.

Many other people do seem to be reduced to scratching a minimal living here as teachers, condo salesmen etc but that isnt my cup of tea at all.

[seadoo]

From what I've been reading. You can't win either way.

I spoke to someone today who bought a condo that was actually there, he lived there for 12 months, then noticed the land in front was in the process of being developed, now his lovely view has gone.

Think a condo on koh chang will be the better option. Unless there going to start building on water, my view won't be disappearing fast.

Why do you think most of these View Talay projects have an equal parcel of land running besides them they certainly aren't going to leave a valuable piece of land vacant.

[bobobo]

What You do is pay for a piece of paper..two years before it's finished..sorry not my cup of tea..give me the key so I can have a look at the condo, then I decide if I want to buy or not..I don't have the nerves for this kind of business..

[MRTELLYOUSTRAIGHT]

Where else in the world do the sales staff of condominiums dance to gangnam f'ing style to tempt to you to buy.

[Gerald14]

Unless the company is 100% financially sound I would not do it you can lose all you paid in if the developer goes bust. (Would not be the first time)

[Cheapcharly]

I checked porch lane 2 in jomtien, when not yet built. .. i checked a lot of building in pattaya.

now they are building another big building Just in front.

then you got noise of dogs, and karaoke at 2 am... and drug...

some building haven problems, swimming pool not leveled of, leaks in drain tubes. etc.

then you can get bad smell in hall, or people cooking fish or curry.

and when you want leave,. you can not... because you bought something that nobody want... and you finish stuck in a place which became shiit.

my advice, rent thai condo.. install ac and hot shower. when u leave take ac with you. I'm pay around 3k to 4500 for a nice room around pattaya.

i stayed 4 years in pattaya. sick of it, can not sleep anymore... people are uneducated,. gogo everywhere. and crimes... i talk to cops and they say they got many complaints from hotel manager from foreign customers peeing on mattress..

do you really want live here?don't stuck yourself at your age...

buy stock and bond, make 7%, with this interest money pay your rent...

when things turn bad, leave..

my secret for you, people want your money. money is king...

keep it.. invest it in europe in stock and bonds...

Edited May 13, 2013 by Cheapcharly

[whitethai]

I checked porch lane 2 in jomtien, when not yet built. .. i checked a lot of building in pattaya. now they are building another big building Just in front. then you got noise of dogs, and karaoke at 2 am... and drug... some building haven problems, swimming pool not leveled of, leaks in drain tubes. etc. then you can get bad smell in hall, or people cooking fish or curry. and when you want leave,. you can not... because you bought something that nobody want... and you finish stuck in a place which became shiit. my advice, rent thai condo.. install ac and hot shower. when u leave take ac with you. I'm pay around 3k to 4500 for a nice room around pattaya. i stayed 4 years in pattaya. sick of it, can not sleep anymore... people are uneducated,. gogo everywhere. and crimes... i talk to cops and they say they got many complaints from hotel manager from foreign customers peeing on mattress.. do you really want live here?don't stuck yourself at your age... buy stock and bond, make 7%, with this interest money pay your rent... when things turn bad, leave.. my secret for you, people want your money. money is king... keep it.. invest it in europe in stock and bonds...

Where do you suggest good part of Thailand to live then?

[checkoutcomplete]

I find south pattaya very quiet.

[MarkCyr]

I've been looking into this a lot myself both in Pattaya and Manila. The key, according to people who haven't been ripped off, is to make sure the developer has at least one or more completed, successfully-developed properties -- and then check them out for yourself. Stop a few people in the lobby and ask if they'll give you the low down.

Second, see how aggressively the developer is expanding. If they have, for example, only one property completed but are then building four new ones, steer clear.

The problem with first-time or overly-ambitious developers is that when the project is done and the apartments are to be "handed over," that's when people need to pay up the balance. A lot of people can't. The development tanks, big investors get their money back to some extent, but buyers lose everything.

And there's another question to ask yourself. Are you buying because it's "cheap" compared to the money you have to invest now? Or does it seem "doable" based on your expected income? If the former, then consider investing with a good developer. You're already in good financial shape and can afford the risk (after considerable due diligence). If the latter -- if you will have to "save a bit more than usual" to hit the mark -- then don't do it.

Or rather, do it, as you'll be one of those guys desperately trying to sell the unit on handover at an enormous discount (where you lose everything you've put in and I just pay the balance). Help me out here! lol Sorry for the long-winded post. Good luck!

[craigt3365]

I checked porch lane 2 in jomtien, when not yet built. .. i checked a lot of building in pattaya. now they are building another big building Just in front. then you got noise of dogs, and karaoke at 2 am... and drug... some building haven problems, swimming pool not leveled of, leaks in drain tubes. etc. then you can get bad smell in hall, or people cooking fish or curry. and when you want leave,. you can not... because you bought something that nobody want... and you finish stuck in a place which became shiit. my advice, rent thai condo.. install ac and hot shower. when u leave take ac with you. I'm pay around 3k to 4500 for a nice room around pattaya. i stayed 4 years in pattaya. sick of it, can not sleep anymore... people are uneducated,. gogo everywhere. and crimes... i talk to cops and they say they got many complaints from hotel manager from foreign customers peeing on mattress.. do you really want live here?don't stuck yourself at your age... buy stock and bond, make 7%, with this interest money pay your rent... when things turn bad, leave.. my secret for you, people want your money. money is king... keep it.. invest it in europe in stock and bonds...

To avoid some of these problems, you might try a higher quality room. 3-4500k doesn't get you much. And noise is usually part of the problem with these cheapie rooms. Not all, but many.

Plus, move a bit out of town and things change dramatically. Head down towards NaJomtien or over to the dark side. Huge difference.

[Rimmer]

One post and a quoted reply has been removed:

2) Not to express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban.

[SantiSuk]

All condo developers lie about completion dates. I bought in Diamond Sukhumvit at On Nut Bangkok when the structure was complete and there were some show flats. I was given one year for completion. I was going to use a lawyer until I realised it was not really necessary, but I had got as far as speaking to a couple of falang-Thai law firms in Bangkok before I decided that. I told them about location and expectations and both had this as there first reaction question to my statement that the developer had said it would complete in a year; "well ... did you believe them and is that completion date important to you? Did it look like it would complete in a year?" (it did actually, but I'm no expert) They both volunteered that all developments in Bangkok complete later than promised.

It wasn't important to me and we finally got in 6 months after the contracted start date. The delays were treated as though they were completely normal by the developer, no apologies/ no explanations. I did not bother trying to claim for the delay.

Just one experience, and it may only apply to large high rise projects - I'm sure others have better experiences.

Edited May 14, 2013 by SantiSuk

[siberianwarcat]

I am not sure why we might be unable to name names on this forum, which developers are good or bad in users experience. Why is this principle any different to other discussions found on this forum detailing where to get a good breakfast or which taxi company is reliable or not?

[Cheapcharly]

ok... i tell you something. I have been in these condo near finished by myself... nobody saw me... and i can tell you there was plenty of mismatch...

night table not correctly set, ground not aligned, drawer problem to close, window not locking,... paintjob not finished, paint on electric protection... Etc etc.

this is just visual. now what is under. did u check electric, water system,...??

in europe the job is well done usually. but in thailand, they build fast like a bunker but it s not quality...

if it s to have shiit, i prefer to rent. and leave when It s full kaput...

[craigt3365]

I am not sure why we might be unable to name names on this forum, which developers are good or bad in users experience. Why is this principle any different to other discussions found on this forum detailing where to get a good breakfast or which taxi company is reliable or not?

We remove posts all the times that potentially violate Thailand's anti-defamation/libel laws. It's a big deal here. One reason we have this rule:

6) Not to post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel.Defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm. Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a printed or fixed medium, such as a magazine or newspaper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation

Here in Thailand, the statement can be true. But if it hurts someones business, you can be sued. Easily.

Hope you understand. This is one area that really makes our jobs tough. Especially on an anonymous internet forum like this.

If you want to discuss this more, please do so via PM. OK, back to the topic!

[Phil Conners]

With the number of condos currently being build it would certainly seem that there will be a huge glut of condos available within the next 2-3 years.

Buying a condo off-plan means buying it off the plan, i.e. while it's still only on the planning stage, not yet built. At this time the condo is usually offered at a 20-30% discount off the planned final sales price. Let's say the final price is set to 1.3M, the off-plan price may then be set to 1M, with 100,000 down payment at the time of signing. When the works starts the buyer usually have to pay a monthly installment, in this case perhaps around 10,000 baht. After the building is completed, usually about two years, the final balance, for this example around 660,000, has to be paid.

The premise is now this, the agent will tell you that you can buy the condo off plan now and within a year there will not be any more off-plan condos available and you will be able to sell your - still unfinished - condo at a small profit, say, in this case, 1,100,000. So you make your down payment of 100,000 + perhaps a few months of 10,000, and then you sell the condo and make a 100,000 baht profit on your 100,000 baht investment. The problem is this usually doesn't happen. At the time you're expecting to be able to sell your condo at a small profit a new condo project have started, offering off-plan condos for those who wants to buy.

Another scenario have you hold on to the condo until it's completed, assuming you have the cash to pay the balance, now hoping to sell in a market that is saturated with new condos.

No doubt some people are able to make a good profit in this market, but if you're not already well experienced with the Pattaya real estate market and extremely well connected, I really would try to find other ways to invest my money.

[threelegcowboy]

As I try to understand this buy off plan this is what I have been told.

The developer is using this money for borrowing to finish the project. The further along the project is before purchase then the more expense for the unit.

So if not enough (off plan)purchases then the bank does not make the loan and the projects fails. Then the developer is holding this deposit and then can return or do a runner.