Vieng Ping Condo

[heybruce]

Hello Heybruce

I think what Highlander said was "ideally" a 1% monthly return. This is achievable but not with a lot of the new build condos. It is the same with BTL in the UK , London and the South East difficult to get more than 3 to 4 % but if you buy in the North you can achieve 10 to 12 %. Chiang Mai is a good place for BTL provided you buy at a discount

do enough due diligence and avoid voids. I think if you keep cash in the bank then you need to join the queue for the Psychiatric Hospital.

Due diligence will tell you that in Chiang Mai smart renters are renting condos for about 0.5% of market price per month. Of course the current condo building frenzy may result in rental prices going down.

I agree that in the stable, rule-of-law, respect for property rights parts of the world where people can actually own the land beneath their property and house prices are realistic, now is an exellent time to invest in real estate. I just don't think the Chiang Mai condo market is the right place to invest at this time. However feel free to sink as much of your money into the local market as you can afford. If you're right you'll get rich. If I'm right the renters market will continue.

Just out of curiousity, are you actually sinking your own money into Chiang Mai condos, or just trying to convince other people to put their money in local condos?

[Thighlander]

Even if it is going to be soley owner occupied, it still makes sense to look at the ratios. Ideally, you want to be able to rent it out for 1%, per month of the purchase price. Look for the yields, and the appreciation will take care of itself.

So these new four to six million baht condos would have to rent at 40,000 to 60,000 baht a month. For people willing to pay that, the line forms near the Psychiatric Hospital on Suthap.

The people paying 6 million for a unit that will only rent for 25K are the ones who should get in line. I was just looking in BKK. I saw a nice 14th floor studio, about 700m from BTS. Rent is 10,000 per month, they are asking 1.3 million. That's getting warm. I bought three units in Las Vegas/Phoenix during the GFC. I just sold the last one. Paid 660,000 THB, lived in it for a year, then rented it out for two years at 17,500 per month. And it still is a pain in the ass to deal with renters and repairs. Just sold it to a Taiwanese LLC for 1,270,000.

Besides the 1% rule, I like this formula that I learned from an Aussie accountant. To calculate monthly cash flow, take 40% of rent amount. That will be for maintenance and maintenance fees, repairs, vacancies, commissions, advertising, and property taxes. That leaves 60%. Subtract principle and interest from that. What you have left if your monthly cash flow. Now take that as a percentage of the amount you came to closing with, be it full cash or downpayment. That is your return.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Thighlander

[binjalin]

Hello Heybruce

I think what Highlander said was "ideally" a 1% monthly return. This is achievable but not with a lot of the new build condos. It is the same with BTL in the UK , London and the South East difficult to get more than 3 to 4 % but if you buy in the North you can achieve 10 to 12 %. Chiang Mai is a good place for BTL provided you buy at a discount

do enough due diligence and avoid voids. I think if you keep cash in the bank then you need to join the queue for the Psychiatric Hospital.

Due diligence will tell you that in Chiang Mai smart renters are renting condos for about 0.5% of market price per month. Of course the current condo building frenzy may result in rental prices going down.

I agree that in the stable, rule-of-law, respect for property rights parts of the world where people can actually own the land beneath their property and house prices are realistic, now is an exellent time to invest in real estate. I just don't think the Chiang Mai condo market is the right place to invest at this time. However feel free to sink as much of your money into the local market as you can afford. If you're right you'll get rich. If I'm right the renters market will continue.

Just out of curiousity, are you actually sinking your own money into Chiang Mai condos, or just trying to convince other people to put their money in local condos?

I actually have bought several condos here and get 7/8% net as a norm (but not the new monstrosities) but the little list I gave is crucial - so many crap committees, managers and poor accounts that it really is caveat emptor

good place to invest... wisely... in my view

[NigelKennedy]

Hello Heybruce

Yes have been investing my money in BTL for 25 years mainly in Europe but have started on some in Thailand. Started buying in CM in the older buildings to get the yield. Not interested in capital appreciation only yield. Last thing I would do is try to convince others to buy. As we all know only invest money in Thailand if you can afford to lose that money, otherwise don't dabble.

[heybruce]

Hello Heybruce

I think what Highlander said was "ideally" a 1% monthly return. This is achievable but not with a lot of the new build condos. It is the same with BTL in the UK , London and the South East difficult to get more than 3 to 4 % but if you buy in the North you can achieve 10 to 12 %. Chiang Mai is a good place for BTL provided you buy at a discount

do enough due diligence and avoid voids. I think if you keep cash in the bank then you need to join the queue for the Psychiatric Hospital.

Due diligence will tell you that in Chiang Mai smart renters are renting condos for about 0.5% of market price per month. Of course the current condo building frenzy may result in rental prices going down.

I agree that in the stable, rule-of-law, respect for property rights parts of the world where people can actually own the land beneath their property and house prices are realistic, now is an exellent time to invest in real estate. I just don't think the Chiang Mai condo market is the right place to invest at this time. However feel free to sink as much of your money into the local market as you can afford. If you're right you'll get rich. If I'm right the renters market will continue.

Just out of curiousity, are you actually sinking your own money into Chiang Mai condos, or just trying to convince other people to put their money in local condos?

I actually have bought several condos here and get 7/8% net as a norm (but not the new monstrosities) but the little list I gave is crucial - so many crap committees, managers and poor accounts that it really is caveat emptor

good place to invest... wisely... in my view

6% to 7% ROI on well chosen, intelligently improved older condos I can believe. 10% to 12% long-term ROI I don't believe, unless someone found some real bargains after the '97 economic crisis.

[binjalin]

Hello Heybruce

I think what Highlander said was "ideally" a 1% monthly return. This is achievable but not with a lot of the new build condos. It is the same with BTL in the UK , London and the South East difficult to get more than 3 to 4 % but if you buy in the North you can achieve 10 to 12 %. Chiang Mai is a good place for BTL provided you buy at a discount

do enough due diligence and avoid voids. I think if you keep cash in the bank then you need to join the queue for the Psychiatric Hospital.

Due diligence will tell you that in Chiang Mai smart renters are renting condos for about 0.5% of market price per month. Of course the current condo building frenzy may result in rental prices going down.

I agree that in the stable, rule-of-law, respect for property rights parts of the world where people can actually own the land beneath their property and house prices are realistic, now is an exellent time to invest in real estate. I just don't think the Chiang Mai condo market is the right place to invest at this time. However feel free to sink as much of your money into the local market as you can afford. If you're right you'll get rich. If I'm right the renters market will continue.

Just out of curiousity, are you actually sinking your own money into Chiang Mai condos, or just trying to convince other people to put their money in local condos?

I actually have bought several condos here and get 7/8% net as a norm (but not the new monstrosities) but the little list I gave is crucial - so many crap committees, managers and poor accounts that it really is caveat emptor

good place to invest... wisely... in my view

6% to 7% ROI on well chosen, intelligently improved older condos I can believe. 10% to 12% long-term ROI I don't believe, unless someone found some real bargains after the '97 economic crisis.

well I have never found them either - 7% is my 'norm' and 8% I think I'm doing really well but some people 'fool themselves' and forget to take off one months agents commission etc. If, occasionally, I find my own renter the % can go up but I don't count on it as a rule and so there has been the odd 9%/10% exception to the rule but they were flukes and there have been the odd 5/6% when times were hard so I believe I am being honest to say 7/8% is the 'norm' in a well chosen, well renovated older condo. Good luck anyway - I made many errors when i first went into this and could have done a lot better if I had known then what I know now (guess I could say that about my whole life lol)

[vagabond48]

I am curious, does the 7% to 8% annual income factor in times of no occupancy while the owner is looking for a new tenant?

What is the average rental length of stay?

[binjalin]

I am curious, does the 7% to 8% annual income factor in times of no occupancy while the owner is looking for a new tenant?

What is the average rental length of stay?

personally I don't spend inordinate amounts of time on spreadsheets working out EXACT ROI and depreciation etc. but rooms are rarely free for long.

Usual is 12 months contract and I rarely accept less UNLESS it is out of season and a 6 month contract will get me to the 'sweet time' of Sept/Oct/Nov when high season starts and I can then get a 12 month contract finishing at this time of year. A room which is empty in Feb onward is much harder to rent out and sometimes this may happen if a renovation is finishing around that time - in those circumstances I might take a lower rent and a shorter contract.

[cheeryble]

OK, I took the risk. I bought there already. Will see how it will go !

I heard that Hillsiade 4 have a good reason to complaint. They will have brand new condo in front of their windows, loosing mountain view !

Incorrect.

A friend has actually been to the Land Office and seen the plans for the the "new condo" next to Hillside 4 as it threatened to halt a sale for him.

It is not a "new condo" it is some sort of complex which will be no more than 15 metres high, and friend's sale went through after the buyer also went the the Land Office.

It will probably be an improvement, and will certainly be a relief for those on the west side.

ViengPing always looks delapidated to me. Hillside 4 is well maintained and history says it's a very solid and liquid investment (can I say something is solid and liquid?).

[baywatch82]

ViengPing always looks delapidated to me. Hillside 4 is well maintained and history says it's a very solid and liquid investment (can I say something is solid and liquid?).

Hillside 4 is overpriced for me. I bought to live there, so I prefer to live in 80sqm instead of 40sqm for the same price. Also have great mountainview and better road connection/location.

Viengping is not as well maintained as HS4, but do not worry, it will not collapse. I hope more farang will buy there and together we can change the poor management things.

Also I heard that after Maya will be completed, they want to repaint all building and renovate the pool. Maybe wishfull thinking, but will see...

So far I am happy with my purchase.

[binjalin]

OK, I took the risk. I bought there already. Will see how it will go !

I heard that Hillsiade 4 have a good reason to complaint. They will have brand new condo in front of their windows, loosing mountain view !

Incorrect.

A friend has actually been to the Land Office and seen the plans for the the "new condo" next to Hillside 4 as it threatened to halt a sale for him.

It is not a "new condo" it is some sort of complex which will be no more than 15 metres high, and friend's sale went through after the buyer also went the the Land Office.

It will probably be an improvement, and will certainly be a relief for those on the west side.

ViengPing always looks delapidated to me. Hillside 4 is well maintained and history says it's a very solid and liquid investment (can I say something is solid and liquid?).

the law says they can build 8 floors high - whatever it is not good news for Hillside Four and they may build on the other side eventually. Parking is atrocious there and I sold out and will never re-buy caveat emptor

[cheeryble]

the law says they can build 8 floors high - whatever it is not good news for Hillside Four and they may build on the other side eventually. Parking is atrocious there and I sold out and will never re-buy caveat emptor

Odd that my friend....quite a precise man I'd say.....would get it wrong, especially as I worked out the number of floors in 15 metres with him....most likely 5 or less allowing for a high ground floor. My guess is he has it right. Actually I'm not sure I didn't hear of something like the Lighthouse shopping area further up the road, which is not more than two or three floors high is it?

As for parking, yes it gets quite chocka but never actually failed to get a park there, and I notice they fire hose out the whole basement car park once a fortnight.

The fact is it that although it doesn't suit some the overall popularity is very high with it's location and management.

Edited June 9, 2013 by cheeryble

[binjalin]

the law says they can build 8 floors high - whatever it is not good news for Hillside Four and they may build on the other side eventually. Parking is atrocious there and I sold out and will never re-buy caveat emptor

Odd that my friend....quite a precise man I'd say.....would get it wrong, especially as I worked out the number of floors in 15 metres with him....most likely 5 or less allowing for a high ground floor. My guess is he has it right. Actually I'm not sure I didn't hear of something like the Lighthouse shopping area further up the road, which is not more than two or three floors high is it?

As for parking, yes it gets quite chocka but never actually failed to get a park there, and I notice they fire hose out the whole basement car park once a fortnight.

The fact is it that although it doesn't suit some the overall popularity is very high with it's location and management.

well I don't know I only know what I hear from others about the building restrictions. As for your last comments : it is well known the juristic manager is also the developer and controls everything at Hillside Four - the committee has no power and several owners don't even pay and common area fee as they are 'protected'. the manager is very nice but has limited power because of this - this is all well known. Location is good but parking is atrocious so I detect some bias in your summation of the merits of Hillside Four.

[cheeryble]

Agree things ain't perfect about power structure at building, but the dictatorship seems to have worked reasonably benevolently......the developer is highly experienced and that's worth something......and as the fees are half those of new condo buildings I reckon not so bad.

As for parking I can only say what I said before.....not enough of it, but I never ever failed to get a park inside the building.

Edited June 10, 2013 by cheeryble

[binjalin]

Agree things ain't perfect about power structure at building, but the dictatorship seems to have worked reasonably benevolently......the developer is highly experienced and that's worth something......and as the fees are half those of new condo buildings I reckon not so bad. As for parking I can only say what I said before.....not enough of it, but I never ever failed to get a park inside the building.

well not so sure - what about the owners who have never paid common area? subsidizing the rest? the building is owed millions. It is true that I have always found parking but not a parking space and they have to employ many guards down there to fit cars in - many leaving handbrakes off so they can be rolled out of the way - for me this is not acceptable for where I live. In other words I believe there are better choices but good luck anyway.

[Greenside]

The area on the other side of Viengping (further away from Huay Kaew Rd) is now being cleared in preparation for construction of a seven storey condo, making two new blocks within 50m or so and divided by a cafe/bar complex. I'd say that no matter the blighted view of some of the units, the location is becoming more desirable by the month and the huge price for the next door apartments will mean VP BTL owners will have no shortage of tenants in the future once the dust from Maya has settled.

[Thighlander]

I'll bet a can of shave foam, the owner did not complete his quick sale. I had that place confused with Nakornping, which I would say is marginal. Had been in VP about 7 years ago, and it was quickly crossed off the list. At the time I was unaware of the unintended consequences of buying a house.

[binjalin]

OK, I took the risk. I bought there already. Will see how it will go !

I heard that Hillsiade 4 have a good reason to complaint. They will have brand new condo in front of their windows, loosing mountain view !

Incorrect.

A friend has actually been to the Land Office and seen the plans for the the "new condo" next to Hillside 4 as it threatened to halt a sale for him.

It is not a "new condo" it is some sort of complex which will be no more than 15 metres high, and friend's sale went through after the buyer also went the the Land Office.

It will probably be an improvement, and will certainly be a relief for those on the west side.

ViengPing always looks delapidated to me. Hillside 4 is well maintained and history says it's a very solid and liquid investment (can I say something is solid and liquid?).

14 floors confirmed

[cheeryble]

14 floors confirmed

Not confirmed I believe, but very possible.

It seems the much lower building was indeed approved at the office next to US Embassy (otherwise my friend's sale would have fallen throug), now they are trying to get an environmental impact assessment through for a much taller building. The EIA mentions 12 floors.. Hillside 4 residents have been asked to comment for the assessment.

Edited August 9, 2013 by cheeryble

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

The flyer with the Mist Hotel/Condo announcement and EIA is 12 stories at highest point.

So 12 stories is not even in stone yet. They have to clear the process which will likely have a lot of opposition.

[binjalin]

The flyer with the Mist Hotel/Condo announcement and EIA is 12 stories at highest point.

So 12 stories is not even in stone yet. They have to clear the process which will likely have a lot of opposition.

maybe but anyone buying there 'hoping' it won't go up is a fool but good luck

[NigelKennedy]

I see Vieng Ping in the news again. 20 units for sale by the asset management company in Central

Airport.

[Greenside]

The Maya activity is probably winding down and the original developer of Viengping may be selling what has been used as offices on the 2nd and 3rd floors. Just a guess.

[baywatch82]

I see Vieng Ping in the news again. 20 units for sale by the asset management company in Central

Airport.

Is it good thing or bad thing ? (for the owners at VP)

[Greenside]

Who knows? In the medium term its location will overcome the age of the building and the indifferent management and since the cost per sq metre is about 50-60% lower than the new developments nearby (see how much the new condos on the old Think Park site are up for) it's good value but not if you want to see a short term gain. Good place to live and easy to rent out.

[Rama]

Vieng ping is one of the first if not the first condo built in Cm. It has one big difference from all other condos - it was built using steel beams - not rebar and cement. It will last a long time and will increase in vlaue.

[NigelKennedy]

baywatch82, I think it is a good thing as it seems all were sold within 10 days of release. Which means maybe a company

bought them for resale or renovation. Can only be good, wish I had bought one or two. Location is good and when Maya completed

will be more in demand.

[baywatch82]

Viengping is currently being repainted - that's good news for the owners.

Edited April 10, 2014 by baywatch82

[Rama]

Ask to see the last year financial statement and currernt financial statement for the building. Ask for the names of the board members and talk to them, not the Juristic person manager. Many condo buildings in CM are legalized shops for stealing by the Jusritic Person Managers.

[beau thai]

Ask to see the last year financial statement and currernt financial statement for the building. Ask for the names of the board members and talk to them, not the Juristic person manager. Many condo buildings in CM are legalized shops for stealing by the Jusritic Person Managers.

Seems unlikely to me that the JP will show the financial statements or give out contact detail for board members- or am I wrong Rama??

Your post reads as though you know something.... not positive??