30 Year Lease

[pepsi666]

Hello All

As you can see I have returned from Pattaya and had a great time

I need some advice from all you good people out there AGAIN

I want to get a propery over there now, but buying a place means setting up this Thai company lark and signing over 51% to someone I dont know and am supposed to trust (I dont have a Thai wife, just a scouse one)

So I'm considering this 30 year lease thing

Now do I have to sort out land and get a house built or can I lease a house and land (Who can I contact about this ?)

Can I approach a estate agent out there ?

What are the costs of it ?

What are the average running costs of a villa over there ? you know, electric, A/C, satalite/cableTV, refuse collection, water/waste.

As before any advice would be greatly appreciated, you can either post it here or PM me (but others might find your help useful as well

So come on people, you all love helping people out here

[Mobi]

So come on people, you all love helping people out here

Hello Pepsi666

With the graetest respect, may I suggest you click on 'Thailand Forum' above, scroll down, and you will find a forum totally dedicated to discussing and answering all the questions you have asked in your post.

Yes, we do love helping people, but not when the answers are already there.

[pepsi666]

So come on people, you all love helping people out here

Hello Pepsi666

With the graetest respect, may I suggest you click on 'Thailand Forum' above, scroll down, and you will find a forum totally dedicated to discussing and answering all the questions you have asked in your post.

Yes, we do love helping people, but not when the answers are already there.

Apologies, didnt know that it was on here, I had browsed around but there are 22000 odd replies and 1000 odd topics<_<

I just thought it would be easier to post here (its Pattaya I'm intrested in NOT the who;le of Thailand and Islands)

I found I got a better response from people who live there rather than EVERYONE in Thailand

Edited March 22, 2006 by pepsi666

[Kerryd]

Hello All

As you can see I have returned from Pattaya and had a great time

I need some advice from all you good people out there AGAIN

I want to get a propery over there now, but buying a place means setting up this Thai company lark and signing over 51% to someone I dont know and am supposed to trust (I dont have a Thai wife, just a scouse one)

So I'm considering this 30 year lease thing

Now do I have to sort out land and get a house built or can I lease a house and land (Who can I contact about this ?)

Can I approach a estate agent out there ?

What are the costs of it ?

What are the average running costs of a villa over there ? you know, electric, A/C, satalite/cableTV, refuse collection, water/waste.

As before any advice would be greatly appreciated, you can either post it here or PM me (but others might find your help useful as well

So come on people, you all love helping people out here

Honestly, you should have asked those questions WHILE you were here !

The company formation thing isn't that scary. The 51% thing can be arranged to ensure you still retain full control of the company (on paper, your Thai partners own 51% of the Class A Non-Voting shares, while you own 100% of the Class B Voting shares. Something like that).

As for leases. Probably best to consult a real-estate company here. I don't see too many listings from Thais trying to lease their properties (at least not in English).

You can lease land, you can lease a house and land, you can lease a house. If you lease land and want to build on it, you'd have to make sure that permission to do that was included in the original lease agreement.

Costs of a lease can vary greatly (location, location, location !). Obviously, a bare plot of land outside of the city would be less than one closer to downtown. A bare plot in South Pattaya could cost more than a plot with a house on it a few miles out of town.

Again, a realtor could help you out with that.

Utilities ? Well, I live in a small apartment in South Pattaya (for now). I get charged 7 baht per unit of electricity (unit = 1 kilowatt ?). My electricity bill can actually be higher than my rent ! (3,800 baht in January, dang air-conditioner )

Water ? I pay 25 baht per unit, what ever the hel_l that is. 50 baht bill for water in January according to my landlady. (Yes, I shower EVERY day, some times twice a day, I just don't spend an hour doing it !)

Cable TV ? Not sure, it's included in my rent. Not too expensive apparently (I think the landlady's bill for the building was 1,500 for a month, with 10 or so apartments that were getting cable)

Telephone (land-line, for my internet connection) Appears to be 100 baht per month basic fee. (I'm also paying 1,000 baht/month for my ADSL connection, though they haven't sent me a bill for it yet )

Garbage Collection ? On my block, each "section" of the building pays a whopping 40 baht per month ! (we get garbage collection every 3 days here).

So, the lease is obviously going to be the expensive part. You do know you can buy a condo outright though ? Condo's aren't considered "land".

Electricity seems to be pretty expensive. Pays to sweat it out now and then. Otherwise, most things seem pretty cheap compared to what I used to pay in Canada.

Search the net for realtors in Pattaya. Contact a couple of them with your questions, maybe they already have something you'd like. Maybe they can find something if they don't. If you do get a hit, on your next trip you can check it out right away.

Good luck.

[Dragonman]

Hello All

As you can see I have returned from Pattaya and had a great time

I need some advice from all you good people out there AGAIN

I want to get a propery over there now, but buying a place means setting up this Thai company lark and signing over 51% to someone I dont know and am supposed to trust (I dont have a Thai wife, just a scouse one)

So I'm considering this 30 year lease thing

Now do I have to sort out land and get a house built or can I lease a house and land (Who can I contact about this ?)

Can I approach a estate agent out there ?

What are the costs of it ?

What are the average running costs of a villa over there ? you know, electric, A/C, satalite/cableTV, refuse collection, water/waste.

As before any advice would be greatly appreciated, you can either post it here or PM me (but others might find your help useful as well

So come on people, you all love helping people out here

You appreciate of course that you will, strictly speaking, just be paying an up front sum for a 30 year rental of the property. So if you pay 5 million it will be the equivalent of about 14, 000 baht a month plus the interest you will forfeit on your 5 million. At the end of the 30 years it is most likely that the house will not be yours and you will have to leave. Most owners would like this deal, I would To make leasing sensible you really need a thai wife or a very good thai friend.

[Mobi]

Hello All

As you can see I have returned from Pattaya and had a great time

I need some advice from all you good people out there AGAIN

I want to get a propery over there now, but buying a place means setting up this Thai company lark and signing over 51% to someone I dont know and am supposed to trust (I dont have a Thai wife, just a scouse one)

So I'm considering this 30 year lease thing

Now do I have to sort out land and get a house built or can I lease a house and land (Who can I contact about this ?)

Can I approach a estate agent out there ?

What are the costs of it ?

What are the average running costs of a villa over there ? you know, electric, A/C, satalite/cableTV, refuse collection, water/waste.

As before any advice would be greatly appreciated, you can either post it here or PM me (but others might find your help useful as well

So come on people, you all love helping people out here

You appreciate of course that you will, strictly speaking, just be paying an up front sum for a 30 year rental of the property. So if you pay 5 million it will be the equivalent of about 14, 000 baht a month plus the interest you will forfeit on your 5 million. At the end of the 30 years it is most likely that the house will not be yours and you will have to leave. Most owners would like this deal, I would To make leasing sensible you really need a thai wife or a very good thai friend.

Hi Pepsi,

I wasn't intending to be dismissive. I honestly think that if you go to the 'Property' forum and spend a few hours poring through the myriad topics on this subject, you would learn a great deal , and probably a lot more than we could tell you starting from scratch.

As with everything in Thailand - nothing is straight forward, so all the more reason to get to know all the 'ins and outs' and ramifications of: leases vs buying condos; vs 49% owned companies, etc etc.

As kerryd told you, 49% companies are not that scary. Even if you had a Thai wife, many would advise you against letting her have 51 %. The safest route is to get a good, HONEST laywer to provide the required 51 % shareholders, with the company so constructed that you have effective control, and you also retain signed , undated share transfer forms from all the 51 % shareholders.

The 30 year lease thing will depend on how old you are. If you are 60 plus, a 30 year should be fine and see you through. There is an alternative, known as the '30 plus 30' There are varying opinions on how legally valid this may be, as there is yet to be one that has reached the end of its first 30 year period. Basically, Thai Law only allows a maximum of a 30 year lease, so lawyers have come up with the idea of a 30 year lease, with an option to renew for another 30. You will find all about this on the property forum - look for topics such as 30+30 Leases. Much expert opinion there. Many also advocate having the Thai wife buy the house and then lease the house to the farang for 30 years. This way, she is happy, and so are you, becuse she can never throw you out - not until the lease expires anyway.

I have recently discovered that it is possible for a farang to own a house but not the land. (similar I suppose to owning a condo) In this scenario the Thai owns the land and leases it to you and you build the house and enjoy full ownership of the building and moveable property.

There are many ways to own or lease a house here. You can buy the land and then get a builder to build you a house, or you can buy a 'ready built' house from a house developer.

Which ever way you go - some words of warning. DO NOT TRUST ANY REAL ESTATE COMPANY. There are absolutely no regulations controilling the operations of such companies, and many are not to be trusted and will lie to you whenever it suits their purpose. Many real estate companies have farang front men/directors/ owners. It doesn't make any difference - many of these farangs are more dishonest than the Thais. If you think the agents in the UK are a bunch of low lifes, multiply by ten and you might be getting close to the ethical standards out here. I heard of a farang agent the other week who demanded a fee just to tell a potential customer the price of a plot of land!

There is still a lot of land around that is sold directly by the Thai owners - if you drive around you will see signs in Thai on the land with phone numbers. Get a Thai to check this out for you, as it will undoubtedly be the best way to go.

At end of the day, you will probably have to use agents, but be careful, and shop around and around and around until you have a good knowledge of what is available and the market prices.

Finally, everything I have said about agents equally applies to builders and developers - both Thai and farang. Be very careful.

Good luck

PS I doubt the utility and other running costs would be a significant factor - all will be less than you pay in the UK, with the possible exception of Inernet and cable TV. Elecricity bills can rack up a bit if you run a lot of A/c's - otherwise no probs.

[Tolley]

Best advice i can give is RENT.

Who needs all the hassles with the byzantinian laws and regulations involved in property buying in Thailand.

As you don't have a Thai missus I don't think there is any real need to buy.

[Maigo6]

I agree, rent.

Too many dodgy real estate agents around to trust any of them.

[pepsi666]

Hello All

As you can see I have returned from Pattaya and had a great time

I need some advice from all you good people out there AGAIN

I want to get a propery over there now, but buying a place means setting up this Thai company lark and signing over 51% to someone I dont know and am supposed to trust (I dont have a Thai wife, just a scouse one)

So I'm considering this 30 year lease thing

Now do I have to sort out land and get a house built or can I lease a house and land (Who can I contact about this ?)

Can I approach a estate agent out there ?

What are the costs of it ?

What are the average running costs of a villa over there ? you know, electric, A/C, satalite/cableTV, refuse collection, water/waste.

As before any advice would be greatly appreciated, you can either post it here or PM me (but others might find your help useful as well

So come on people, you all love helping people out here

You appreciate of course that you will, strictly speaking, just be paying an up front sum for a 30 year rental of the property. So if you pay 5 million it will be the equivalent of about 14, 000 baht a month plus the interest you will forfeit on your 5 million. At the end of the 30 years it is most likely that the house will not be yours and you will have to leave. Most owners would like this deal, I would To make leasing sensible you really need a thai wife or a very good thai friend.

Hi Pepsi,

I wasn't intending to be dismissive. I honestly think that if you go to the 'Property' forum and spend a few hours poring through the myriad topics on this subject, you would learn a great deal , and probably a lot more than we could tell you starting from scratch.

As with everything in Thailand - nothing is straight forward, so all the more reason to get to know all the 'ins and outs' and ramifications of: leases vs buying condos; vs 49% owned companies, etc etc.

As kerryd told you, 49% companies are not that scary. Even if you had a Thai wife, many would advise you against letting her have 51 %. The safest route is to get a good, HONEST laywer to provide the required 51 % shareholders, with the company so constructed that you have effective control, and you also retain signed , undated share transfer forms from all the 51 % shareholders.

The 30 year lease thing will depend on how old you are. If you are 60 plus, a 30 year should be fine and see you through. There is an alternative, known as the '30 plus 30' There are varying opinions on how legally valid this may be, as there is yet to be one that has reached the end of its first 30 year period. Basically, Thai Law only allows a maximum of a 30 year lease, so lawyers have come up with the idea of a 30 year lease, with an option to renew for another 30. You will find all about this on the property forum - look for topics such as 30+30 Leases. Much expert opinion there. Many also advocate having the Thai wife buy the house and then lease the house to the farang for 30 years. This way, she is happy, and so are you, becuse she can never throw you out - not until the lease expires anyway.

I have recently discovered that it is possible for a farang to own a house but not the land. (similar I suppose to owning a condo) In this scenario the Thai owns the land and leases it to you and you build the house and enjoy full ownership of the building and moveable property.

There are many ways to own or lease a house here. You can buy the land and then get a builder to build you a house, or you can buy a 'ready built' house from a house developer.

Which ever way you go - some words of warning. DO NOT TRUST ANY REAL ESTATE COMPANY. There are absolutely no regulations controilling the operations of such companies, and many are not to be trusted and will lie to you whenever it suits their purpose. Many real estate companies have farang front men/directors/ owners. It doesn't make any difference - many of these farangs are more dishonest than the Thais. If you think the agents in the UK are a bunch of low lifes, multiply by ten and you might be getting close to the ethical standards out here. I heard of a farang agent the other week who demanded a fee just to tell a potential customer the price of a plot of land!

There is still a lot of land around that is sold directly by the Thai owners - if you drive around you will see signs in Thai on the land with phone numbers. Get a Thai to check this out for you, as it will undoubtedly be the best way to go.

At end of the day, you will probably have to use agents, but be careful, and shop around and around and around until you have a good knowledge of what is available and the market prices.

Finally, everything I have said about agents equally applies to builders and developers - both Thai and farang. Be very careful.

Good luck

PS I doubt the utility and other running costs would be a significant factor - all will be less than you pay in the UK, with the possible exception of Inernet and cable TV. Elecricity bills can rack up a bit if you run a lot of A/c's - otherwise no probs.

No offence was intended to your reply, but I trawled the various topics and they tended to go off topic quite a lot (but I have read the account of your building your home and some of the pitfalls)

I did drop in to a few estate agent and enquire about a few properties, but they all seemed to have meetings to go to or another appointment or they just never turned up

I had a look at that Mike estate they are buiding, it looked okay (well the show house did) but I'm not sure I want to live on an estate, but it does have advantages I suppose(security, neighbours, communal charges)but then again I read WHAT could happen in your other thread (worse case scenario, also read about the plumbing problems , but I'm a plumber anyway )

I get all my private work by recommendation and I was kinda hoping that it would work that way over there with builders and estate agents, lawyers, places to live, style and type of house (I do have a regular job, PJ's are extra bunce)

I have got the local paper (Pattaya People) and various websites and email addressess, so I'm not expecting everyone here to do all the footwork, I have fired off emails with various qeustions and asking for details

I dont fancy living in a 'condo' (or a tower block as we call em) even though it is probably a lot sompler

DRAGONMAN, I would considera Thai wife, but I'm sure my present wife will object (maybe I should join the mormons down walking street, they can have LOTS of wives, just dont know I could cope with more than one ) I dont have any Thai 'friends, cant make that many while on leave for a few weeks

With setting up a Thai company, just how do you find someone you can trust ? It sounds okay (and a lot of people have done it) but how can you be sure that whoever owns the 51% isnt going to selll the place from under you or disappear with any deposits you have paid

Maybe I could PM one of you and give you an outline of what we actually want to do and when

But again thanks for ALL advice

[Thaipwriter]

Too many dodgy real estate agents around to trust any of them.

Agreed, they must be criminals...all 100% per cent of them.

You've met them all right?

A much better option is to place your entire financial future in the hands of the bar girl you have been boning for the last 5 days.

Stay away from those agents!!!!!

[naka]

Pepsi.

The question you need to ask yourself is, If the place is leased ... how about the resale value ?

nuff said

Naka.

[Mobi]

Too many dodgy real estate agents around to trust any of them.

Agreed, they must be criminals...all 100% per cent of them.

You've met them all right?

A much better option is to place your entire financial future in the hands of the bar girl you have been boning for the last 5 days.

Stay away from those agents!!!!!

You don't by any chance happen to be an estate agent do you?

No, they're not all bad, but I'll warrant that a high percentage of them can be economical with the truth if it will help push a sale through. In this neck of the woods, its a real cut throat business, and as I said previously, the real estate industry in Thailand is totally unregulated.

[Dragonman]

Too many dodgy real estate agents around to trust any of them.

Agreed, they must be criminals...all 100% per cent of them.

You've met them all right?

A much better option is to place your entire financial future in the hands of the bar girl you have been boning for the last 5 days.

Stay away from those agents!!!!!

You don't by any chance happen to be an estate agent do you?

No, they're not all bad, but I'll warrant that a high percentage of them can be economical with the truth if it will help push a sale through. In this neck of the woods, its a real cut throat business, and as I said previously, the real estate industry in Thailand is totally unregulated.

Just drop into conversation that you're a lawyer, a qualified Chartered Surveyor and owned Real Estate Companies in UK. True in my case, but it doesn't have to be. It's surprising how the conversation changes Personally I haven't found any Pattaya realtor to be any worse than any salesman the world over, perhaps just a bit more desperate. The last 3 I came across were former Car salesmen, double glazing and Stock Broker

[Mobi]

..... The last 3 I came across were former Car salesmen, double glazing and Stock Broker

There's three fine, upstanding, honourable professions for you!

[Maigo6]

Stay away from those agents!!!!!

Yep. Rent.

[pepsi666]

I reckon I will rent a place while I am looking around for something permanent, either leasing or buying

I just thought leasing would be a good idea (save setting up the Thai company) lets face it, I doubt if I would be worrying about what happens after 30 years (I'd be too old to worry about it, assuming I'm still alive)

Also if the law did change and farangs were allowed to buy property without the 51/49% thing I'd be in a good position to purchase the lease

[icecubes]

I reckon I will rent a place while I am looking around for something permanent, either leasing or buying

I just thought leasing would be a good idea (save setting up the Thai company) lets face it, I doubt if I would be worrying about what happens after 30 years (I'd be too old to worry about it, assuming I'm still alive)

Also if the law did change and farangs were allowed to buy property without the 51/49% thing I'd be in a good position to purchase the lease

You do know assumption is the mother of all &lt;deleted&gt; ups.

Never assume any thing in Thailand.

Have a nice day.

[pepsi666]

I reckon I will rent a place while I am looking around for something permanent, either leasing or buying

I just thought leasing would be a good idea (save setting up the Thai company) lets face it, I doubt if I would be worrying about what happens after 30 years (I'd be too old to worry about it, assuming I'm still alive)

Also if the law did change and farangs were allowed to buy property without the 51/49% thing I'd be in a good position to purchase the lease

You do know assumption is the mother of all &lt;deleted&gt; ups.

Never assume any thing in Thailand.

Have a nice day.

Just being optimistic, with things in Thailand you never know what surprises it will bring

you pull a bird, you get a bloke,

You buy a Gucci at the airport shop, only to find its an expensive copy

So nothing surprises me there

[lovethailandlongtime]

I reckon I will rent a place while I am looking around for something permanent, either leasing or buying

I just thought leasing would be a good idea (save setting up the Thai company) lets face it, I doubt if I would be worrying about what happens after 30 years (I'd be too old to worry about it, assuming I'm still alive)

Also if the law did change and farangs were allowed to buy property without the 51/49% thing I'd be in a good position to purchase the lease

You do know assumption is the mother of all &lt;deleted&gt; ups.

Never assume any thing in Thailand.

Have a nice day.

Just being optimistic, with things in Thailand you never know what surprises it will bring

you pull a bird, you get a bloke,

You buy a Gucci at the airport shop, only to find its an expensive copy

So nothing surprises me there

Third time lucky ay pepsi??