Since recently returning from teaching in Myanmar to my hotel 'home' in Phuket, several 4 & 5-star hotels have asked me to teach 'hospitality' English to their staff.

This could be quite lucrative, if only I can sort out the legality of it ==> getting a work permit.

If I were to register a Thai company, employ several Thai staff etc etc, there would be no profit left in the business for me to enjoy

So here's a plan. The hotel businesses that I 'have an interest in' are registered, sole trader businesses in the name of my Thai wife and my Thai ex-wife, (separately of course).

I know that a Thai sole trader business can legally employ a foreigner and obtain a WP for him/her. If I were to get the registered objectives of one of these sole trader businesses amended to include 'hospitality training', then it might seem reasonable that I could then be employed by my wife (or my ex), as both manager of their hotel and trainer of external staff at other hotels.

Would this work? If so, how would it work if I had multiple hotel clients that each required me to teach staff at their different hotel locations?

Simon

Sounds like it would be much easier for an accounting firm or the like to hire you. You reimburse them for their expenses and taxes and they obtain a work permit for you. Then all your hotel clients pay the accounting firm who distributes the revenues to you less some consideration for them.

Edited May 13, 201313 yr by JLCrab

Training is an integral part of running a hotel so your plan seems reasonable. You could be hired as the training specialist and get around the teacher issues if I understand the rules correctly.

Training is an integral part of running a hotel so your plan seems reasonable. You could be hired as the training specialist and get around the teacher issues if I understand the rules correctly.

That arrangement would not allow the OP to work for multiple hotel and other hospitality related clients.

Edited May 13, 201313 yr by JLCrab

Should work, since your Hotel is already a registered business then go to the commerce with the necessary agm/minutes of meeting to register the change to the Articles of Association by adding offering a Hospitality Training Facility.

The off to Labour, fill out the WP1 for you as a 'Hospitality Trainer' with your Wife(s) as your employers and see if it flies.

You can put your Hotel as your primary place of work and your work description can be Hospitality Training at the home facility plus client premises throughout Phuket.

Interested to know if they will run with it; Labour may however say that you can only be the office based co-ordinator with employed Thai Trainers to do the leg work.

Only cost to see if this works is registering the changes to the Articles of Association, which should only cost a few hundred Baht.

Good Luck and keep the forum posted..

...employed Thai Trainers to do the leg work.

The whole point is that Thais cannot do this work - it requires a native English speaker who is a degree-qualified teacher/trainer, AND who has hotel management/admin experience.

This might fly - I must check with my accountant

Simon

Well just to be an argumentative SOB, if you did the arrangement as above and you are using the words (as you have) 'teaching' and 'training' you may run into Department of Education considerations as there certainly are registered schools of hospitality in Thailand who purport to do the same thing.

Whereas if you are affiliated with an established consulting entity such as an accounting firm you are just there to assist with their overall operations of which hospitality related English may be considered just one component.

Edited May 13, 201313 yr by JLCrab

@JLCrab, that sounds a good idea on paper, but I have never found a company in Thailand who is willing to provide this type of 'umbrella service'.

FYI, I used to work as an IT contractor in the UK/Europe, so am very familiar with operating under an umbrella company who takes care of all taxes etc. But do such companies exist in Thailand?

Simon

In Bangkok, yes. I was offered a consulting position with a Thai government agency but only if I could arrange for my own work permit. I did find such an arrangement. But you would have to find one in Phuket. As you said talk to your accountant.

I think the problem with setting up your own entity to 'teach & train' is you are doing what might be considered to be a school.

As with these people: http://www.fht.psu.ac.th

There's only so much under-the-radar you can do when your clients are 5-star hotels.

Edited May 13, 201313 yr by JLCrab

...employed Thai Trainers to do the leg work.

The whole point is that Thais cannot do this work - it requires a native English speaker who is a degree-qualified teacher/trainer, AND who has hotel management/admin experience.

This might fly - I must check with my accountant

Simon

Was just suggesting what Labour might say, not that for even one microsecond that this would be a good idea; you get the same problem where, for example, Tour Guide (Foreign Language Speaking) is a reserved occupation for Thais.

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where, for example, Tour Guide (Foreign Language Speaking) is a reserved occupation for Thais

Yes I hear what you say, but teaching English language is not a reserved occupation for Thais!

Look at it another way. I teach IELTS exam preparation courses. That's a specific sector of English language teaching. Teaching English to the hospitality sector is another specific sector.

I'm not considering teaching hospitality service and skills - only the English language requirements for the hotel staff to communicate effectively with their foreign guests.

Simon

From Post #6 above: The whole point is that Thais cannot do this work - it requires a native English speaker who is a degree-qualified teacher/trainer, AND who has hotel management/admin experience.

From PofSU website above:

Name:Ms. TJ (Ph.D.) Position: Lecturer of Hospitatlity / Faculty of Hospitality & Tourism / Prince of Songlka University - Phuket Campus

Qualification: Ph.D., University of Surrey, UK

Edited May 13, 201313 yr by JLCrab

JLCrab - your post #12 highlights someone who lectures on the subject of Hospitality at the local university. I'm not sure if that lecturer is Thai or NES (native English speaker), but that's not really important because they are lecturing on the subject of Hospitality, not the subject of English language for hospitality staff.

The hotels that are interested in my teaching already have skilled hospitality staff - it's their English language skills that are lacking and that really needs a NES who is a qualified teacher and has experience within the hospitality sector.

Anyway, I can't really add anything more useful until I check with my hotel accountant.

Simon

The lecturer is Thai -- if a Thai person is capable of obtaining a PhD in hospitality management at a university in the UK I don't see why you would say a position as you describe would necessarily require a native English speaker. There are some pretty big hotels in Phuket -- one could easily hire you. The complications come when you want to work for several.

Also, if I were you I would try to avoid the expression 'qualified teacher' -- a 'teacher' works in school ... You really don't want people to think the legal entity you may be starting is actually a school.

Edited May 14, 201313 yr by JLCrab

The lecturer is Thai -- if a Thai person is capable of obtaining a PhD

in hospitality management at a university in the UK I don't see why you

would say a position as you describe would necessarily require a native

English speaker

Because the position that I've described is the teaching of English in a speciality industry sector - it has little to do with teaching of hospitality skills.

As a comparison, I studied for an MA in Thai Studies from Chulalongkorn University - Does that make me qualified to teach Thai language to English students?

Agree with you about the use of the word 'teacher'. I am better to describe the role as 'trainer'

Simon

As has been mentioned by others, teaching is done in schools. With work permit applications, the use of correct terminology for the job title and job description is important. For the job you plan to do, you could for example use the title "foreign language expert". The job description could include things like "training of employees in the hospitality industry how to use the English language correctly when dealing with foreign tourists in various situations" and "transfer of know-how to Thai managerial staff in the hospitality industry on how to train employees in the correct use of the English language when dealing with foreign customers". Adding know-how transfer to Thais always looks good on a work permit application.

As an update to my post, there is a new development which might help me in my goals to legally 'train' hotel staff in the use of English language that's relevant to their industry sector.

I've been offered a job at the local government vocational college to teach various subjects (including English), on their 3-year Hotel & Hospitality diploma course. For most of these subjects I would actually teach the students in both Thai and English, because the young students' English language skills are pretty abysmal... (as is the salary!).

So I would have a lecturing position in hotel & hospitality, and a WP to cover that work at the college location.

Now I wonder if it might be possible to persuade the college director to support my interest in out-of-hours/weekend training at local hotels, by adding those hotel locations to my WP.

Although I would be training in a private capacity, I would be acting as a representative of the college, promoting it's training course(s), and hopefully finding internship/employment opportunities for my students.

This idea won't fly if the director wants a big cut of my income from that private work

Could this fly? Add the local hotel locations to my lecturer WP and then go after this private training?

I can say that the college is falling over themselves to get me on board, because of my Thai language skills. The young students are the product of the Thai government school system ==> virtually unable to understand or converse in English. They are expected from day 1 of their college course to understand advanced English and hotel sector vocabulary. The director knows this is impossible, but employing me to lecture in English and Thai seems the most practical solution.

Simon