WINE FEEDBACK: Last night I tasted the "Rare Vineyards" wine I have been raving on about here and here is some feedback. This latest batch is vintage 2012, whereas the vintage I particularly liked was 2011, and I have to say that IMO 2012 is not quite up to the previous vintage standards with regards to body, flavour and nose. Having said that, I am on some pretty powerful drugs at the moment for bad sinusitis and they have affected the taste and smell of things, so I may be overreacting?

Another wine I have supported in the past is the Australian wine "The Pump" which I was able to buy for 285 baht at Supercheap, and when I first tried the 2009 vintage it was a real bargain, however since then IMO the quality has decreased quite markedly and the latest vintage 2011 I tried was disappointing for me.

Obviously we all have different tastes, however some feedback for what it's worth.

Sinusitis and you're making a call on the nose of the wine? Does the nose know?

WINE FEEDBACK: Last night I tasted the "Rare Vineyards" wine I have been raving on about here and here is some feedback. This latest batch is vintage 2012, whereas the vintage I particularly liked was 2011, and I have to say that IMO 2012 is not quite up to the previous vintage standards with regards to body, flavour and nose. Having said that, I am on some pretty powerful drugs at the moment for bad sinusitis and they have affected the taste and smell of things, so I may be overreacting?

Another wine I have supported in the past is the Australian wine "The Pump" which I was able to buy for 285 baht at Supercheap, and when I first tried the 2009 vintage it was a real bargain, however since then IMO the quality has decreased quite markedly and the latest vintage 2011 I tried was disappointing for me.

Obviously we all have different tastes, however some feedback for what it's worth.

Sinusitis and you're making a call on the nose of the wine? Does the nose know?

Ha ha, yes the mind remembers what it used to be like, but not so sure now with the reduced senses!! However thought I would just post some feedback in case the wine wasn't up to the previous standard. A real shame about the sinusitis because it has taken a lot of the pleasure out of eating and drinking I must say.

Couple years back a couple of winos I know brought some serious plonk to the Green Man's mystery wine tasting where they wrap the bottles, no one knows what is what and then everybody judges the wines.

Well,,,,,, the winos 299thb plonk won the contest which goes to show there are a lot of people out there (Montclair drinkers especially) that don't know squat about wine but as long as it's smooth and taste like fruit it's good2go.

Thus the success of the Australian wine industry........

Couple years back a couple of winos I know brought some serious plonk to the Green Man's mystery wine tasting where they wrap the bottles, no one knows what is what and then everybody judges the wines.

Well,,,,,, the winos 299thb plonk won the contest which goes to show there are a lot of people out there (Montclair drinkers especially) that don't know squat about wine but as long as it's smooth and taste like fruit it's good2go.

Thus the success of the Australian wine industry........

Yes I have had similar happen in wine tastings, which is probably the reason that wine is such a far reaching and fascinating subject because like everything, it is many things to many people. As an example, I couldn't tell the difference between the finest malt whisky ever made and an every day one, yet there are people out there who would scoff at such a thing calling me a philistine, however in my wine experience I have tried not to get into that category. More a case of everyone to their own, but trying to share experiences where possible.

And just to show that tastes can vary, I have sat at a table and someone has poured and oxidised wine (just about undrinkable to me and many others) however a couple on the table had no problems with it, so we have different tastes I suppose.

Whatever may be said, I know what wines and experiences I have liked the most in my life and still remember them, many first growth Bordeaux, a fine burgundy from Mme LeRoy, Cote Rotie and Hermitage from Ogier et al, and the personal wine tasting with J M Cazes, owner of Chateaux Lynch Bages, to name but a few. However I also know that I have enjoyed wines at the medium and low end of the spectrum and am always seeking new experiences and keeping an open mind as to what they're like.

I can really understand why the Australian wine industry took off, because of the huge amount of poor French, Italian and Spanish wine which was being exported and consumed by the everyday consumer, and these people aren't the ones that are in a position to partake of the finest wines, they (and I) just want something which is pleasant to drink, and the fruit driven wines from Australia certainly fit the bill.

Having said that there are some fine wines crafted in Australia and I have enjoyed wines at both ends of the spectrum from that country, so these wines have their place. And I don't know that people need to know "squat" about wine, provided they enjoy what they're drinking.

Couple years back a couple of winos I know brought some serious plonk to the Green Man's mystery wine tasting where they wrap the bottles, no one knows what is what and then everybody judges the wines.

Well,,,,,, the winos 299thb plonk won the contest which goes to show there are a lot of people out there (Montclair drinkers especially) that don't know squat about wine but as long as it's smooth and taste like fruit it's good2go.

Thus the success of the Australian wine industry........

Yes I have had similar happen in wine tastings, which is probably the reason that wine is such a far reaching and fascinating subject because like everything, it is many things to many people. As an example, I couldn't tell the difference between the finest malt whisky ever made and an every day one, yet there are people out there who would scoff at such a thing calling me a philistine, however in my wine experience I have tried not to get into that category. More a case of everyone to their own, but trying to share experiences where possible.

And just to show that tastes can vary, I have sat at a table and someone has poured and oxidised wine (just about undrinkable to me and many others) however a couple on the table had no problems with it, so we have different tastes I suppose.

Whatever may be said, I know what wines and experiences I have liked the most in my life and still remember them, many first growth Bordeaux, a fine burgundy from Mme LeRoy, Cote Rotie and Hermitage from Ogier et al, and the personal wine tasting with J M Cazes, owner of Chateaux Lynch Bages, to name but a few. However I also know that I have enjoyed wines at the medium and low end of the spectrum and am always seeking new experiences and keeping an open mind as to what they're like.

I can really understand why the Australian wine industry took off, because of the huge amount of poor French, Italian and Spanish wine which was being exported and consumed by the everyday consumer, and these people aren't the ones that are in a position to partake of the finest wines, they (and I) just want something which is pleasant to drink, and the fruit driven wines from Australia certainly fit the bill.

Having said that there are some fine wines crafted in Australia and I have enjoyed wines at both ends of the spectrum from that country, so these wines have their place. And I don't know that people need to know "squat" about wine, provided they enjoy what they're d

Quite so, knowing what you like is what is important, I used to like to listen to Gilly on the TV years ago with the gooseberries and a hint of mint etc.

I didn't mean a lot to me but she and Oz did point me in the direction of a few nice, not too expensive wines to try.

I still no nothing about wine, what grape makes what but I do know the wine I like and the ones I hate!

That makes me - my personal expert LOL

There are some people who kinda go on about wine but they are often in the category of "a little knowledge can be dangerous"

As I said before, I like the matter of fact way you explain your knowledge.

I'm looking forward to learning more.

Oh, I meant to mention that the various glycol adulteration scandals were not discovered by wine drinkers but by labs doing QC tests. With the right chemistry set, I guess anyone can be fooled.

Edited May 19, 201313 yr by laislica

As everyone's palates are different, a great way to find out what you like and what you don't like is to go to a wine tasting event.

A certain large wine company on the island has them every month, their last one in Kata I discovered a very nice Pinot Grigio at 449thb.

Next one is in Chalong, June 6.

As everyone's palates are different, a great way to find out what you like and what you don't like is to go to a wine tasting event.

A certain large wine company on the island has them every month, their last one in Kata I discovered a very nice Pinot Grigio at 449thb.

Next one is in Chalong, June 6.

Great, do you have more info on this?

As everyone's palates are different, a great way to find out what you like and what you don't like is to go to a wine tasting event.

A certain large wine company on the island has them every month, their last one in Kata I discovered a very nice Pinot Grigio at 449thb.

Next one is in Chalong, June 6.

I went to the one in Fisherman's Way a month or so ago. I am on their mailing list, so they sent me a notification. Didn't get anything on the Kata event? Website mentions nada.

The Chalong event was well attended. Say 50 pax or so. Maybe a bit more. Entrance fee was THB 500 and you got some finger food. The food was good and you could have as much as you wanted as the waitress's came around.

They had about 20 different wines (red, white, sparkly, desert, rose). I probably had about a dozen glasses (tasting portions). Several I spit out immediately (spittoons available). I found 3 - 4 that I liked and focused on these.

At my event, you could use the THB 500 entrance fee as a discount if you purchased over THB 1,000 in wine, which I did.

Couple years back a couple of winos I know brought some serious plonk to the Green Man's mystery wine tasting where they wrap the bottles, no one knows what is what and then everybody judges the wines.

Well,,,,,, the winos 299thb plonk won the contest which goes to show there are a lot of people out there (Montclair drinkers especially) that don't know squat about wine but as long as it's smooth and taste like fruit it's good2go.

Thus the success of the Australian wine industry........

Yes I have had similar happen in wine tastings, which is probably the reason that wine is such a far reaching and fascinating subject because like everything, it is many things to many people. As an example, I couldn't tell the difference between the finest malt whisky ever made and an every day one, yet there are people out there who would scoff at such a thing calling me a philistine, however in my wine experience I have tried not to get into that category. More a case of everyone to their own, but trying to share experiences where possible.

And just to show that tastes can vary, I have sat at a table and someone has poured and oxidised wine (just about undrinkable to me and many others) however a couple on the table had no problems with it, so we have different tastes I suppose.

Whatever may be said, I know what wines and experiences I have liked the most in my life and still remember them, many first growth Bordeaux, a fine burgundy from Mme LeRoy, Cote Rotie and Hermitage from Ogier et al, and the personal wine tasting with J M Cazes, owner of Chateaux Lynch Bages, to name but a few. However I also know that I have enjoyed wines at the medium and low end of the spectrum and am always seeking new experiences and keeping an open mind as to what they're like.

I can really understand why the Australian wine industry took off, because of the huge amount of poor French, Italian and Spanish wine which was being exported and consumed by the everyday consumer, and these people aren't the ones that are in a position to partake of the finest wines, they (and I) just want something which is pleasant to drink, and the fruit driven wines from Australia certainly fit the bill.

Having said that there are some fine wines crafted in Australia and I have enjoyed wines at both ends of the spectrum from that country, so these wines have their place. And I don't know that people need to know "squat" about wine, provided they enjoy what they're d

Quite so, knowing what you like is what is important, I used to like to listen to Gilly on the TV years ago with the gooseberries and a hint of mint etc.

I didn't mean a lot to me but she and Oz did point me in the direction of a few nice, not too expensive wines to try.

I still no nothing about wine, what grape makes what but I do know the wine I like and the ones I hate!

That makes me - my personal expert LOL

There are some people who kinda go on about wine but they are often in the category of "a little knowledge can be dangerous"

As I said before, I like the matter of fact way you explain your knowledge.

I'm looking forward to learning more.

Oh, I meant to mention that the various glycol adulteration scandals were not discovered by wine drinkers but by labs doing QC tests. With the right chemistry set, I guess anyone can be fooled.

Couple years back a couple of winos I know brought some serious plonk to the Green Man's mystery wine tasting where they wrap the bottles, no one knows what is what and then everybody judges the wines.

Well,,,,,, the winos 299thb plonk won the contest which goes to show there are a lot of people out there (Montclair drinkers especially) that don't know squat about wine but as long as it's smooth and taste like fruit it's good2go.

Thus the success of the Australian wine industry........

Aussie wines are good.

Now if they could just do something similar with their beers.

Bota Box is a decent box wine.

Went to the shop, "Wine Lovers" in Chalong yesterday to see what they had and was surprised at the diverse selection, so bought a few bottles!

I got the impression that some wines might be a little higher priced than in other shops, however at least they have wines I don't normally see around the place.

Any comments/feedback/info on the place?

Can I just say thank you to all who have been contributing to this topic, especially Xylophone. This has been one of the most interesting threads on the forum for months and I have enjoyed reading it a lot.

Edited May 21, 201313 yr by emubob

Can I just say thank you to all who have been contributing to this topic, especially Xylophone. This has been one of the most interesting threads on the forum for months and I have enjoyed reading it a lot.

Thanks emubob, and I've enjoyed both learning and contributing.................So does anyone know how we can keep it going as a regular "forum" (if that's the right term)?

Can I just say thank you to all who have been contributing to this topic, especially Xylophone. This has been one of the most interesting threads on the forum for months and I have enjoyed reading it a lot.

Thanks emubob, and I've enjoyed both learning and contributing.................So does anyone know how we can keep it going as a regular "forum" (if that's the right term)?

er keep posting?

Can I just say thank you to all who have been contributing to this topic, especially Xylophone. This has been one of the most interesting threads on the forum for months and I have enjoyed reading it a lot.

Thanks emubob, and I've enjoyed both learning and contributing.................So does anyone know how we can keep it going as a regular "forum" (if that's the right term)?

er keep posting?

Hmmm......... thanks for that piece of valuable advice, much appreciated LOL.

As I am not too au fait with the workings of something like this, what I really meant to say was that it would be a heading somewhere, or a section on wine which everybody could access easily?? Or something similar, or am I misunderstanding the workings of something like Thai Visa?

Edited May 21, 201313 yr by xylophone

Can I just say thank you to all who have been contributing to this topic, especially Xylophone. This has been one of the most interesting threads on the forum for months and I have enjoyed reading it a lot.

Thanks emubob, and I've enjoyed both learning and contributing.................So does anyone know how we can keep it going as a regular "forum" (if that's the right term)?

er keep posting?

Hmmm......... thanks for that piece of valuable advice, much appreciated LOL.

As I am not too au fait with the workings of something like this, what I really meant to say was that it would be a heading somewhere, or a section on wine which everybody could access easily?? Or something similar, or am I misunderstanding the workings of something like Thai Visa?

It would have to be a pinned topic via the moderators apart from that just remember the topic heading and just come back to that when you want . As we know what was good one year might not be so good the next year it would be good to be kept up to date and recommendations.

I started this to let everybody know of my feelings of the new(ish) Montclair single / blended varietals vs. the original boxes that were barely drinkable. It has morphed into a very interesting thread. Many thanks to Xylo for that.

The Montclair box comments were very fair (i.e. crap), and I would agree, but obviously I pointed this out in my original post. I don't think anybody mentioned if they had tasted the 750 ml bottled wines (not 3 liter). For THB 270, it's worth a go.

I started this to let everybody know of my feelings of the new(ish) Montclair single / blended varietals vs. the original boxes that were barely drinkable. It has morphed into a very interesting thread. Many thanks to Xylo for that.

The Montclair box comments were very fair (i.e. crap), and I would agree, but obviously I pointed this out in my original post. I don't think anybody mentioned if they had tasted the 750 ml bottled wines (not 3 liter). For THB 270, it's worth a go.

I did try the Shiraz in bottle and it was at least one step up from the box wine, so good point GiantFan.

On another wine note, I have noticed that Big C (here in Patong, maybe other places) are starting to put a few of their wines out on special. One I saw and tried was the South African wine "Two Oceans" (Cab Sauv/Merlot) at 245 baht and it was 2010. It was very drinkable with nothing really for it, or against it come to that, apart from the fact that IMO there was a very slight "bitter or herbaceous" undertone to the Cabernet Sauvignon, which usually means that the grapes are just a little unripe having not had quite enough sunshine and heat. Perhaps that's why they blended it with the Merlot to soften it??

Another one is a Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon called "TerraSur", again 2010 and although on the label it says "Reserva" I doubt very much whether it quite means the same as many other wines labelled "Reserva". It is on special for 299 baht.

Finally I noticed some Santa Helena Merlot on special at about 345 baht and although Merlot is not my favourite standalone grape I was tempted, however what I really wanted was their Carmenere wine to be on special because that really is a well-made wine and they do good things with that grape.

If anyone else sees similar offers or specials like this, perhaps they would post about it!

Some of my thoughts on the popularity of the Australian everyday drinking red wines, for those interested.

In order to try and explain this, I will start with what are regarded as the best wines on the planet, the classed growths of Bordeaux (for example, take Chateaux Margaux). If you wanted to buy one bottle of the 2010 vintage now it could cost you about 30,000 baht!! However if you opened it now and wanted to drink it you would probably be extremely disappointed with your purchase, finding it was quite tannic/dry without too much in the way of fruit and other flavours evident. However this is a wine which will come into its element after 10 years of bottle age and is not meant for early drinking. The same goes with many wines of this ilk, they really do improve in the bottle and it's only then that their true quality is revealed.

When this happens there will be many flavours detected not only on the nose but on the palate, which is why these types of wines give rise to the expression that they are "complex" or are "multi-dimensional" in flavour giving the imbiber the experience of uncovering layer upon layer of different tastes and aromas – – blackcurrants, black cherries, plum, cedar and cigar box to name just a few.

Now let's drop to the bottom end of the spectrum and in particular the area that seems to be the focus of many of us on this thread because of the prohibitive tax regime applied to imported wine. It goes without saying that if you are going to produce a cheap wine as an everyday drinker that you cannot spend as much on the care of the vineyards, grapes and vinification, because markets don't work like that. So, much of that wine in the past was pretty average and really didn't give up much at all to the consumer, in fact a lot of the wines from France in the old days were extremely poor and it would be impossible to even detect a particular flavour or grape in what you were drinking….blame wines made to a price, inferior grape varieties and inferior practices as well as lax regulations amongst other things.

Although Italy and France vied as the number one producer of wine in the world, Italy still had the same problem, with wines at the top end being great and many others down lower being plain rubbish. Chile, Argentina, the USA and Australia hadn’t really come onto the scene (as regards exports) in the early 70s and then that started to change.

In particular, what Australia was able to do because of the sunshine/warmth and relatively new approach to winemaking, was to produce a wine which was immediately recognisable as coming from grapes!!!, had fruit flavours that you could immediately taste and wasn't dry enough to take the enamel off your teeth, but was relatively "sweet" (I use that term lightly/guardedly in the context of fruit). So much so that it was very easy to be able to drink a bottle of everyday Australian red without food because of the fruit driven flavours and soft tannins, whereas the majority of the cheaper wines around at the time were not that palatable on their own.

NOW fruit driven wines have become the choice of many of the everyday wine drinkers and many countries are now producing wines like this, although it has to be said that there are occasions when even Chile, Argentina and for example South Africa produce wines at the low end which still have a slightly astringent taste because of a lack of sunlight hours, whereas that is quite rare in Australia. In the USA the wines can range from blockbuster fruit driven varieties down to the poor, and we seem to get quite a few of the latter here.

So on to the wines which have been mentioned on this thread (although not the boxed wines because they are in a different category).In general, the wines up to about 500 baht per bottle will all be in the range of the cheaper wines from the countries mentioned above, however in amongst those it is the Australian reds which can stand out as giving the drinker the taste of fruit, and aromas in the wine. The Little Yering 2009 Cabernet Sauvignon/Shiraz, given a little time to open up in the glass is one of them. The cheaper wines from Chile often don't quite match up to this, having a slight "dry" finish to them in many instances.

There are a couple of Australian wines which do demonstrate the flavours I have spoken about and the fact that they are well made, and if you get the chance to try Taylors Shiraz or "Promised Land" then you will be getting into the area I am trying to describe, this even better now that Big C has them discounted at around 500 baht a bottle, whereas before they were around 650 baht a bottle. However don't ever think that these wines will exhibit the complexity of the Bordeaux I mentioned previously, or have a multi-dimensional aspect to them because they won't, but you will almost certainly taste fruit flavours such as blackcurrant or black cherries for example. The same goes with the Santa Helena Carmenere I mentioned previously, very evident when this grape is treated well. In addition, "Yali" a wine from Chile at around 650 baht per bottle is worth a try because it has some of these these characteristics.

I still look for the cheaper bottle of wine which will "blow my socks off" with its quality and flavours, however we all know that that is a rarity and that market forces don't really allow that to happen, but it keeps me interested, and I know that every so often I have to purchase something a little out of the ordinary to be able to "re-educate" my palate and give it more balance. In the meantime IMO the good old Aussie wines really do give value for money quality at the bottom end, and some class at the top end.

Edited May 22, 201313 yr by xylophone

Some of my thoughts on the popularity of the Australian everyday drinking red wines, for those interested.

In order to try and explain this, I will start with what are regarded as the best wines on the planet, the classed growths of Bordeaux (for example, take Chateaux Margaux). If you wanted to buy one bottle of the 2010 vintage now it could cost you about 30,000 baht!! However if you opened it now and wanted to drink it you would probably be extremely disappointed with your purchase, finding it was quite tannic/dry without too much in the way of fruit and other flavours evident. However this is a wine which will come into its element after 10 years of bottle age and is not meant for early drinking. The same goes with many wines of this ilk, they really do improve in the bottle and it's only then that their true quality is revealed.

When this happens there will be many flavours detected not only on the nose but on the palate, which is why these types of wines give rise to the expression that they are "complex" or are "multi-dimensional" in flavour giving the imbiber the experience of uncovering layer upon layer of different tastes and aromas – – blackcurrants, black cherries, plum, cedar and cigar box to name just a few.

Now let's drop to the bottom end of the spectrum and in particular the area that seems to be the focus of many of us on this thread because of the prohibitive tax regime applied to imported wine. It goes without saying that if you are going to produce a cheap wine as an everyday drinker that you cannot spend as much on the care of the vineyards, grapes and vinification, because markets don't work like that. So, much of that wine in the past was pretty average and really didn't give up much at all to the consumer, in fact a lot of the wines from France in the old days were extremely poor and it would be impossible to even detect a particular flavour or grape in what you were drinking….blame wines made to a price, inferior grape varieties and inferior practices as well as lax regulations amongst other things.

Although Italy and France vied as the number one producer of wine in the world, Italy still had the same problem, with wines at the top end being great and many others down lower being plain rubbish. Chile, Argentina, the USA and Australia hadn’t really come onto the scene (as regards exports) in the early 70s and then that started to change.

In particular, what Australia was able to do because of the sunshine/warmth and relatively new approach to winemaking, was to produce a wine which was immediately recognisable as coming from grapes!!!, had fruit flavours that you could immediately taste and wasn't dry enough to take the enamel off your teeth, but was relatively "sweet" (I use that term lightly/guardedly in the context of fruit). So much so that it was very easy to be able to drink a bottle of everyday Australian red without food because of the fruit driven flavours and soft tannins, whereas the majority of the cheaper wines around at the time were not that palatable on their own.

NOW fruit driven wines have become the choice of many of the everyday wine drinkers and many countries are now producing wines like this, although it has to be said that there are occasions when even Chile, Argentina and for example South Africa produce wines at the low end which still have a slightly astringent taste because of a lack of sunlight hours, whereas that is quite rare in Australia. In the USA the wines can range from blockbuster fruit driven varieties down to the poor, and we seem to get quite a few of the latter here.

So on to the wines which have been mentioned on this thread (although not the boxed wines because they are in a different category).In general, the wines up to about 500 baht per bottle will all be in the range of the cheaper wines from the countries mentioned above, however in amongst those it is the Australian reds which can stand out as giving the drinker the taste of fruit, and aromas in the wine. The Little Yering 2009 Cabernet Sauvignon/Shiraz, given a little time to open up in the glass is one of them. The cheaper wines from Chile often don't quite match up to this, having a slight "dry" finish to them in many instances.

There are a couple of Australian wines which do demonstrate the flavours I have spoken about and the fact that they are well made, and if you get the chance to try Taylors Shiraz or "Promised Land" then you will be getting into the area I am trying to describe, this even better now that Big C has them discounted at around 500 baht a bottle, whereas before they were around 650 baht a bottle. However don't ever think that these wines will exhibit the complexity of the Bordeaux I mentioned previously, or have a multi-dimensional aspect to them because they won't, but you will almost certainly taste fruit flavours such as blackcurrant or black cherries for example. The same goes with the Santa Helena Carmenere I mentioned previously, very evident when this grape is treated well. In addition, "Yali" a wine from Chile at around 650 baht per bottle is worth a try because it has some of these these characteristics.

I still look for the cheaper bottle of wine which will "blow my socks off" with its quality and flavours, however we all know that that is a rarity and that market forces don't really allow that to happen, but it keeps me interested, and I know that every so often I have to purchase something a little out of the ordinary to be able to "re-educate" my palate and give it more balance. In the meantime IMO the good old Aussie wines really do give value for money quality at the bottom end, and some class at the top end.

Dollar for dollar value I would have to agree hands down about some of the reasonably good value wines coming out of Aus - if only someone could bring in clear skins at a sensible price

Thanks again Xylophone for an excellent and informative post. I have a question for you. If you were to be in a country where the tax laws were not so prohibitive then what would be your favourite wine country of choice? I understand that with your wine appreciation that you may well flit from country to country but in general what would be your wine country of preference when looking to purchase wine?

I am a huge fan of Australian wines and, although not from there, have been lucky enough to spend quite a lot of time there over the years. I started to get into wine in my early twenties when travelling there and haven't looked back. I have visited several wine regions all over the country and their wine industry is incredible and so diverse.

Generally in Thailand I will always stick to New World wines as the lower price Old World wine I find to be inferior and poor value in comparison.

Quote eezergood: "Dollar for dollar value I would have to agree hands down about some of the reasonably good value wines coming out of Aus - if only someone could bring in clear skins at a sensible price".

Seems like a good point, especially when you consider the quality of some of the cleanskin wines in Australia, and at around two dollars a bottle you really can't go wrong. I would suspect that there is not enough margin in it because it really is a bulk buy, bulk bottle, bulk sell, quick turnover operation and I did notice that one of the owners of the wine chains (Busby I think) had pulled a fast one and cornered that part of the market because I noticed on many of the cardboard boxes that's where they originated from....smart move.

There is another point which is worth considering, and that is that cleanskins were originally introduced to be able to clear the volume of wine due to the wine glut, not only in early 2000, but in late 2000, and whenever else it occurred, and don't forget Australia can easily over-produce wine because of the favourable climate.

It also helps the winemakers because they are able to sell their premium wines or better quality wines using the same labels as they always have, yet bottle the same wine with no label and no source of origin so that the brand doesn't suffer. That is why you can occasionally pick up some really good wine in cleanskin label bottles. Also as far as the winemaker is concerned it gives them a little cash flow and also frees up space in their tanks to be able to get on with the subsequent vintages.

Seems like the Aussies have a lot of luck, not only with producing some very good low-end wine, but also some very classy top end wines and being able to buy a reasonable barbecue wine at two dollars a bottle. Mind you I will say that there are spin-offs for the likes of New Zealand, because a lot of the excess wine from Australia was shipped to NZ and was available at some very low prices compared to in the past.

Quote eezergood: "Dollar for dollar value I would have to agree hands down about some of the reasonably good value wines coming out of Aus - if only someone could bring in clear skins at a sensible price".

Seems like a good point, especially when you consider the quality of some of the cleanskin wines in Australia, and at around two dollars a bottle you really can't go wrong. I would suspect that there is not enough margin in it because it really is a bulk buy, bulk bottle, bulk sell, quick turnover operation and I did notice that one of the owners of the wine chains (Busby I think) had pulled a fast one and cornered that part of the market because I noticed on many of the cardboard boxes that's where they originated from....smart move.

There is another point which is worth considering, and that is that cleanskins were originally introduced to be able to clear the volume of wine due to the wine glut, not only in early 2000, but in late 2000, and whenever else it occurred, and don't forget Australia can easily over-produce wine because of the favourable climate.

It also helps the winemakers because they are able to sell their premium wines or better quality wines using the same labels as they always have, yet bottle the same wine with no label and no source of origin so that the brand doesn't suffer. That is why you can occasionally pick up some really good wine in cleanskin label bottles. Also as far as the winemaker is concerned it gives them a little cash flow and also frees up space in their tanks to be able to get on with the subsequent vintages.

Seems like the Aussies have a lot of luck, not only with producing some very good low-end wine, but also some very classy top end wines and being able to buy a reasonable barbecue wine at two dollars a bottle. Mind you I will say that there are spin-offs for the likes of New Zealand, because a lot of the excess wine from Australia was shipped to NZ and was available at some very low prices compared to in the past.

CAn be shipped & is shipped in containers like milk! win win situation, but for now pipe dreams

Thanks Xylophone for another excellent and informative post.

In addition to the excellent question by emubob, could you do a piece on Spanish wines when you have some free time.

We shall be arriving there at the weekend and you are giving me ideas that I should start to be more discriminating than just going for a Rioja if I want something nicer than the table wine offered with tapas.

I recall seeing Chillean wine there but not Aussie and of course French wines.

In a previous post I rambled on about my experience in Cap De La Hague. I have remembered the names of the wines that really stood out to me then. Pommard and Volnay. We also hade some very nice Cotes De Rhone.

I shall have to try to track some down and check if they still taste as good as my memory says they did LOL.

However, having been deprived of wine for six months or so, I shall, (as Peter Sellars said) "Grasp with both hands, the opportunities offered", Oops, sorry madam".

Thanks Xylophone for another excellent and informative post.

In addition to the excellent question by emubob, could you do a piece on Spanish wines when you have some free time.

We shall be arriving there at the weekend and you are giving me ideas that I should start to be more discriminating than just going for a Rioja if I want something nicer than the table wine offered with tapas.

I recall seeing Chillean wine there but not Aussie and of course French wines.

In a previous post I rambled on about my experience in Cap De La Hague. I have remembered the names of the wines that really stood out to me then. Pommard and Volnay. We also hade some very nice Cotes De Rhone.

I shall have to try to track some down and check if they still taste as good as my memory says they did LOL.

However, having been deprived of wine for six months or so, I shall, (as Peter Sellars said) "Grasp with both hands, the opportunities offered", Oops, sorry madam".

Sorry to Hijak - but look at a white Rioja if you want something different! If its red, then a good Tempranillio can be had for under THB500, try the Red House in Kathu

Thanks again Xylophone for an excellent and informative post. I have a question for you. If you were to be in a country where the tax laws were not so prohibitive then what would be your favourite wine country of choice? I understand that with your wine appreciation that you may well flit from country to country but in general what would be your wine country of preference when looking to purchase wine?

I am a huge fan of Australian wines and, although not from there, have been lucky enough to spend quite a lot of time there over the years. I started to get into wine in my early twenties when travelling there and haven't looked back. I have visited several wine regions all over the country and their wine industry is incredible and so diverse.

Generally in Thailand I will always stick to New World wines as the lower price Old World wine I find to be inferior and poor value in comparison.

Crikey emubob, that's a hard question to answer. However firstly I can understand your appreciation of Australian wines for all the reasons we have discussed and you really can't go wrong with the majority of them, and you are quite right that in general the old world wine tends to be "inferior" (have to be careful with that word) and poor value in comparison to what can be bought in Australia at the same price.

Great that you have been able to travel around Australia and check out the wine industry and have to agree with you on your points about it.

In my case, because I have been fortunate enough to travel around some good wine countries/regions I tend to have a policy which leans towards buying a wine for a particular purpose. By that I mean that if I were to want to keep wines for a long period of time to mature to be absolutely fantastic then I would go for the classed growths of Bordeaux and the great wines of Burgundy, with wines from Cote Rotie, Hermitage and Chateauneuf du Papes thrown in. A few Italian classics would find their way in there as well as some Rioja Gran Reserva wines. Have bought and tasted a few classic wines from the USA (e.g. Robert Mondavi Cabernet Sauvignon 1984 reserve) but my wine experience with that country is rather limited.

Add to that the Australian classics such as Grange and Henschke and a few others and they would constitute my "keeping" wine.

What I used to call my "everyday drinkers" would certainly be the wines from Australia and some of the better wines now being made in the South of France, with some additions from Italy – – not wines for laying down you would understand, ones that can be drunk immediately or would possibly improve in bottle for a couple of years.

You see I think every country has its strengths as regards wine and I find it difficult to pin my tastes down now that I have tasted so many. There is one thing I will add and you can take from it what you wish, and that is that every so often I tire of drinking the big fruit driven Australian reds (much as I love them) and want something with perhaps a little less fruit and a little more individuality (don't know if that's the right word) so I will pick something from the South of France, or an Italian wine which can include Cabernet Sauvignon and Sangiovese in the mix.

A very good and yet difficult question and I don't know as I have answered it that well!!

Thanks Xylophone for another excellent and informative post.

In addition to the excellent question by emubob, could you do a piece on Spanish wines when you have some free time.

We shall be arriving there at the weekend and you are giving me ideas that I should start to be more discriminating than just going for a Rioja if I want something nicer than the table wine offered with tapas.

I recall seeing Chillean wine there but not Aussie and of course French wines.

In a previous post I rambled on about my experience in Cap De La Hague. I have remembered the names of the wines that really stood out to me then. Pommard and Volnay. We also hade some very nice Cotes De Rhone.

I shall have to try to track some down and check if they still taste as good as my memory says they did LOL.

However, having been deprived of wine for six months or so, I shall, (as Peter Sellars said) "Grasp with both hands, the opportunities offered", Oops, sorry madam".

Sorry to Hijak - but look at a white Rioja if you want something different! If its red, then a good Tempranillio can be had for under THB500, try the Red House in Kathu

Great info and thanks for it.

Well laislica you certainly tried a couple of nice Burgundies with your Pommard & Volnay and they can range from the everyday village wine to the quite stunning.

I do like Spanish wines and had the great fortune to own a case of 1964 Frederico Paternina Gran Reserva, which I was offered a phenomenal price for in the mid-80s in Australia actually by the owner of a Spanish restaurant. When I realised it was a valuable I kept it and consumed it over the next few years!!

You can't really go wrong if you are sticking with the Rioja wines and they themselves can vary depending on what area of the Rioja they are from, and how they are made.........from a light oak treatment to a rather heavy one, although that has died off in recent years. As eezergood has said, Tempranillo is the number one red grape used in Spain with Garnacha (called Grenache in France) being a close second.

The good thing about Spain is that there are several different regions and they can treat their grapes a little differently in these regions, and of course there are some great winemakers such as Miguel Torres who almost single-handedly has turned the Spanish wine industry round into something to be taken notice of again. Indeed it was in the mid-70s that a blend of Tempranillo and Cabernet Sauvignon produced a blockbuster wine which won major awards and shook the French wine industry to the core, along with the shock of the Stags Leap wine from the USA beating out some of the best wines in France in a private tasting.

Some of these winemakers are not afraid to experiment and have got out of the old habit of keeping some wines for six years in oak, therefore producing a heavily oaked, slightly oxidised and almost fruitless wine. The wine region of Ribero del Duero (I think that's the spelling) has been responsible for some really classic wines based on the Tempranillo grape and wines from that region would certainly be worth seeking out, provided you can find some in the lower price bracket.

Were I in Spain I would certainly be trying all that Spain had to offer, rather than looking to taste wines from other countries.

Just to end with something from eezergood, although I am not a white wine drinker per se, I have tasted white Rioja and if served nice and cool it is very agreeable, especially with a good paella, although I am prone to drinking red wine with that also!!.

Lastly, I have tried a few Spanish bottles here labelled simply "Tempranillo" and have been very disappointed, with a couple of them being oxidised, and in my experience I would say that they were like that when they were bottled, so obviously some winemaker trying to get rid of old stock. Like any country, there are some poor wines made and I think it is a shame that such a practice still exists.

PLease dont discount Portugal - they have some very complex young drinking lighter reds, perfect for our climate. Almost Pinot like

Thanks Guys, great info so I am looking forward to the journey even more now.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks Guys, great info so I am looking forward to the journey even more now.

I'll let you know how it goes.

The journey will go well, but the recovery the next day????????