What Salary For This Position?

[webworldly]

I sure will appreciate hearing what you think the monthly salary would be for the following position. As you can see, it is a combination of personal assistant, maid, and concierge.

Description of duties:

1. Comfortable speaking whatever English they know, but not required to be anywhere near fluent

2. Knowledgeable regarding getting around Bangkok

3. Comfortable working one-on-one with English speaking foreigners for several hours each day

4. Willing to do 2 hours per day of cleaning (including one bathroom and one bedroom)

5. Comfortable standing or walking for up to six hours each day

How hard do you think it will be to hire a permanent team of 15 of these people in Bangkok?

Is there one particular requirement on my list that you think will be especially hard to find?

CHEERS!

D

[Spoonman]

16k per month.

[ShopBoy]

20k per moth

[rgs2001uk]

1. Comfortable speaking whatever English they know, but not required to be anywhere near fluent

Most Thais are not comfortable speaking English

2. Knowledgeable regarding getting around Bangkok

Dont know what this means, by bus, by boat, by BTS or by taxi?

3. Comfortable working one-on-one with English speaking foreigners for several hours each day

See answer to #1, most Thais are happier working in a group.

4. Willing to do 2 hours per day of cleaning (including one bathroom and one bedroom)

If you want a maid/cleaner, employ a maid/cleaner, suggest you employ two different types of people, one for cleaning duties, one for speaking English, most of the Thai English speakers I know would consider a maids duties below them.

5. Comfortable standing or walking for up to six hours each day

Have you ever been to Thailand?

Most Thais will get a motorcyle taxi to take them 200 yards up the soi, walk for 6 hours a day in this heat and humidity, no wonder the Thais think we are crazy.

[robenroute]

I think your biggest challenge will be the "permanent" part (of the team). You might initially find some people willing to give this a shot (I'd say at 20k+ a month), but you'll find yourself looking for new staff pretty soon (for various reasons). For the rest, I second what rgs2001uk has jotted down. Makes a lot of sense.

[TPI]

Wow! I know that I live up country but! 20K a month! Egad! Why don't you hire an English speaking driver who is married, not only will you get him for less than 20K but he'll probably be happy to have his wife do the cleaning for 150-200 baht a day.

[webworldly]

Spoonman, thank you for including a specific salary. Rgs2001uk, I definitely acknowledge your premise that the job I described does not match up well with the vast majority Bangkok's workforce. Point taken. Robenroute, thank you for mentioning the specific salary, and for reminding me that "permanent" here has a "same same, but different" meaning as it does elsewhere.

As for ShopBoy, I'm not sure I understand how a moth could fill the position. Are you referencing the robotic kind....such as this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22393858

And, thank you to the 73 people who emailed me their application for the job. (kidding)

Clearly, I must continue to refine (or rethink) the job description...so any additional responses are still greatly appreciated.

CHEERS!

D

[kyb789]

Wow! I know that I live up country but! 20K a month! Egad! Why don't you hire an English speaking driver who is married, not only will you get him for less than 20K but he'll probably be happy to have his wife do the cleaning for 150-200 baht a day.

I know plenty of college grads that started at less than 16k or 20k per month. Geez! You can get 'em for 12k no problem.

[notbkk]

In Bangkok college/uni grads starts around 15k - 18k pm. According to your (very vague) job description, it doesn't seem like you need a graduate. Sounds like you should pay anything from 8k to 12k?

[varun]

What is it then? 1) concierge 2) A maid 3) or a PA?

If you're looking for a single person who can do all 3 tasks, you'll have to look extremely hard, to say the least.

I guess a concierge / PA's skillsets COULD overlap, but I'm no HR professional.

If I were you, I'd advertise separately for 1) & 3), female, fresh hospitality grads, no more than 10-12k each. (max. 15k, for better english speakers)

[webworldly]

kyb789 & ntotbkk....thank you both for your feedback. 12k baht sounds like it would be at the extreme low end, but as several others (most recently varun) have suggested, "this one position" may need to morph into "these several positions".

CHEERS!

D

[Psych01]

My missus is a qualified accountant, but does not work in that role. She does work in the admin office for a Thai company dealing with the quotes for the company clients, she only gets paid 15k a month, out of that she has to pay for her social service and tax. That is in BKK.

I believe the general daily wage in Thailand is set at a minimum of 300bht, for unskilled workers in a Thai business. Most employees at a 7/11 will be required to hold a certificate of higher education, Vocational education or University, and will only be paid a starting salary of around the 7-8k pm. A 1st year qualified teacher will generally start at around 10k, even a Thai English teacher.

As for you not getting any responses to your ad, what were you advertising the job as?

I also agree with @rgs2001uk & @varun, you need to advertise 2 jobs, in the long run it would help you to define the role of either and also help with the description etc..

Edited May 15, 2013 by Psych01

[impulse]

Pay 'em what you want to start.

But if you find any keepers, raise their salaries regularly to keep 'em happy and set an example for the rest of your employees.

A 500 baht raise once a month has more impact than a 3000 baht raise twice a year.

It sounds like you're targeting quite a few clients at a time, and you can reserve the best paid (best performing) hands for the more promising clients.

[thaicbr]

I think your biggest problem would be the cleaning part.. especially the bathroom.. Most that could/would do the job would not like that in the at all. Lets face it you probably wouldn't like doing it yourself.

I think the Pa/ concierge part would be no problem.. It really depends what level of commitment is required.. would there be ongoing job advancement ?

For example i know someone with the necessary basic to Ok english skills. she would not mind doing the cleaning etc (she used to be an office maid) But even though she is fairly bright the PA part would need work..Nothing that training would not sort out.. depends on how much effort you want to do yourself.
conversely i know another girl who could do the PA part fine BUT would NOT clean and tidy (unless there was a bonus for doing so)

So there you go.. maybe on those times when cleaning is required pay it as a bonus.. money talks here.

I think that if you needed 15 staff at any one time you would NEED to actually employ 17.

As for salary... starting about 15,000b + bonus for degree holders and 12,000b + bonus for non degree.

Edited May 15, 2013 by thaicbr

[Eesat]

Spoonman, thank you for including a specific salary. Rgs2001uk, I definitely acknowledge your premise that the job I described does not match up well with the vast majority Bangkok's workforce. Point taken. Robenroute, thank you for mentioning the specific salary, and for reminding me that "permanent" here has a "same same, but different" meaning as it does elsewhere.

As for ShopBoy, I'm not sure I understand how a moth could fill the position. Are you referencing the robotic kind....such as this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22393858

And, thank you to the 73 people who emailed me their application for the job. (kidding)

Clearly, I must continue to refine (or rethink) the job description...so any additional responses are still greatly appreciated.

CHEERS!

D

How about:

Must be prepared to watch television for at least 6 hours a day.

Must be prepared to gossip with any other Thai woman they might encounter during the course of work,for a minimum of 20-30 minutes while thoroughly neglecting all other duties.

Must give the default "Mai mee" or "Mai lu" response to anyone not looking Thai or speaking perfect Thai,asking for anything.

Must be prepared to decide themselves when work is over and consequently disappear without a trace until the next day.

[thaigold]

You might be well advised to consult with your senior Thai associate in regard to this "job." Much as a job in Farang-land you are not going to find a concierge; personal assistant; and a scullery maid all wrapped in one. Additionally, all and any ideas about efficiency and productivity that you acquired overseas means absolutely nothing in the Kingdom.

You've got a whole new skill-set to learn. The cultural differences are just too great.

Case in point; I was a senior projects director in Honolulu Hawaii for years. But as Hawaii is as different from California as California is from New York, 80% of mainland management hires failed in their assigned duties - simply because they couldn't make the cultural shift.

So ... bear this in mind; You will learn to work with the Thais, not the other way around. If you can't accept this simple reality; you will fail.

[Will2011]

Descriptions are quite vague, but if it includes cleaning, my guess is it's an entry-level job. Between 12k to 15k max is the norm. Nobody with a Bachelor will accept to clean anyway.

[webworldly]

Thank you very much to impulse, thaicbr, thailgold, and Will2011 for their replies. My key takeaways included the need for the employer to:

1. hire a bit more broadly, but quickly identify and reward the best performers with pay hikes
2. strongly consider splitting the job description into at least two distinct jobs....paying specific attention to the requirement that most concierge qualified candidates will have for not doing bedroom and bathroom cleaning.
3. embrace the concept that non-Thai employers must adapt to Thai team members, not the other way around

Great stuff.....thank you for all the help!

CHEERS!

D

[Paangjang]

Get a girlfriend. You'll get extras that you didn't include in the job description also

[Thighlander]

Hire a Filipina.

[Thighlander]

I spent a month staying near UDRU last Summer. A few of its graduates were telling me they wanted 20K and they were still looking. I thought it seemed high, compared with what some very experienced nurses and teachers make.

[webworldly]

Thank you for the recent additional feedback. After synthesizing the tips....I've decided to hire several different, non-degreed, Fillipinas, and then make all them my girlfriends. Easy!

[Paangjang]

I'd say post #4 is all true and good advice. I think you'll end up employing 2 different staff. The english speaking PA will not want to do cleaning duties etc. The cleaning lady will not be able to speak english or be capable of being a PA. PA 15K-20K depending on age and experience. Cleaner 9K full time or 300B per day.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Paangjang

[webworldly]

Hey Paangjang.....I appreciate the specificity of your numbers, and I think you've done well to crystallize the consensus of the other contributors, i.e. dividing the duties between two separate positions, at a total monthly cost of between 22k-30k baht.

Thank you!

CHEERS!

D

[ayayay]

2 hours of cleaning, that does not go well with the other job tasks...

[ayayay]

Hey Paangjang.....I appreciate the specificity of your numbers, and I think you've done well to crystallize the consensus of the other contributors, i.e. dividing the duties between two separate positions, at a total monthly cost of between 22k-30k baht.

Thank you!

CHEERS!

D

Don´t offer anyone a salary of 20k a month. Unless they have many years of experience, and are well educated.

[webworldly]

Hi ayayay.....thank you for your input, which further reinforces the need to both separate the cleaning duties from some of the other requirements, and to carefully consider the total compensation.

It's almost funny to think how problematic it would have been had I tried to hire and retain a staff based on my original "all in one" job description.

CHEERS!

D