When Does The Sale Of A Condo Become Official?

[inquisitive]

In 2007 I used a condo as collateral for a private loan. In 2008, when the note became overdue I signed a TorPor21 power of attorney for real estate transaction to the lender. It specified the property and stated that he was given the power to sign as my attorney or myself for the sale of the property. In my mind, I had essentially transferred control of the property to this lender. Now it is 2013, and a US court is suggesting that in fact I am still the owner/controlling party, and since I swore under oath that I was not, they are considering charges of perjury. I need to show the that I lost control of the condo 2008. (I believe the lender simply is holding on the condo waiting for its value to increase and he doesn't have to pay any tax on the transaction until he registers the transfer.)

If I get him to register the transfer now, is it possible to have the record show that the transfer actually took place back in 2008?

I think of a somewhat analogous situation in the USA: If I buy a house on a Saturday, I can't register I with the government until Monday when the offices open. I was still the owner all weekend, even though it was not officially registered. I also know that in Isaan there are loads of properties that have not been registered with the government, and yet the ownership is clear.

So what would the situation be in Bangkok? I don't want to go to jail just because this man didn't bother to register our transaction with the government. Frankly, I never imagined that I could get in trouble for not registering something I no longer owned!

So what is the answer? Is it possible to have the transaction listed in the official record as 2008? Is there any other way to show the court in the USA that I stopped controlling/owning an interest in the property way back then? If they think I just sold it now, then I'm in big trouble.

I only have a couple of weeks to fix this thing. Any ideas? (If anyone knows a Thai lawyer that might be able to help, I invite you to send me contact info directly if you're more comfortable with that route)

Thanks.

[bkksiam]

I am guessing here:

In 2008, you merely gave him PoA. If he did not sell it, then you are still the owner. If he sells it now, then the date of sale will say 2013. Like you say -it is only"in your mind" that you sold it in 2008. So the problem cannot be solved by retroactively changing sale date to 2008. Look for an american lawyer to clear you of perjury in US courts as opposed to a thai lawyer to sort out a real estate problem.

[JeremyBowskill]

Must be something pretty serious for the US to bother digging up info on Thailand...... good luck.

[inquisitive]

I am guessing here:

In 2008, you merely gave him PoA. If he did not sell it, then you are still the owner. If he sells it now, then the date of sale will say 2013. Like you say -it is only"in your mind" that you sold it in 2008. So the problem cannot be solved by retroactively changing sale date to 2008. Look for an american lawyer to clear you of perjury in US courts as opposed to a thai lawyer to sort out a real estate problem.

Thanks bkksiam. As an American, that's how I would guess as well. At the same time, I'm hoping to get more than a guess. If your guess was correct, then someone who buys a condo on a Saturday can't possibly own it until the land office opens on Monday. I happen to know as a matter of first-hand experience in New York that a property I owned was transferred by quit-claim deed to a family member a full five years before it was registered in the County Clerk's office. Despite that fact, it was owned by the new owner all that unregistered time. The original transfer had to be made in writing and meet other requirements, but it did not have to be registered to be valid.

And what about the land transfers that take place upcountry where there ARE no papers whatever?

So does anyone know the answer for Thailand? Or can anyone recommend a good lawyer who might know the answer? Thanks again.