Thai and Cambodian press warn of escalating tensions following Miss Grand scandal

[Davedub]

To be fair Dave, for me it's not about the harm anything does or may do, more the freedom of choice to put in my body what I want to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_cannabis

Not sure what half of it means but it sounds impressive...

Agreed, 100% - that's my drift when I compare informed drug use to other risky activities like skydiving and horse riding.

However, experience has taught me that the uninformed, mass-media-hype believers need a stronger argument than that. To me, it's essential that the debate continues, otherwise the rest of the world is going to join the US in incarcerating a large percentage their population for simple drug offences, breaking up families, destroying employment opportunities and robbing innocent people of their freedom - which incidentally is the topic of this forum, lest we forget!

The systematic persecution of both drug users and abusers must stop - I'll do my utmost to inform people of the facts, adding just a little to the growing momentum behind a common sense solution.

I've posted this link before, but here goes again - these 'radical' ideas are even supported by some members of the US law enforcement agencies: http://www.leap.cc/

[hyperdimension]

anyone that is involved in the drug trade in any way deserves everything they get, if that is jail time then so be it, why do these appologists make excuses for the idiots.

So you'd suggest putting the manufacturers of alcohol and tobacco into jail, as well as the owners of the shops (including Big C and 7-11) and bars and nightclubs that sell them?

You're mistaking something that is legal to something that is illegal, and doing so does your cause no good whatsoever. This is the situation, change it. Until then it is what it is - complain about it, certainly, but don't try to rationalise something that isn't open to rationalisation.

Does tobacco and alcohol kill thousands? Absolutely. Are they legal? Yes.

Do drugs kill thousands? Absolutely. Are they legal? No

(Before obfuscating the issue, I think it is quite clear what 'drugs' are meant)

I have not mistaken anything. I know that seajae meant illegal "drugs". I just wanted to play with his loose use of the word "drugs" and include legal drugs under the umbrella. The legal drug trade, despite the harm that these drugs cause, has an enormous distribution network and includes the big supermarkets and convenience stores, and I wanted to mention that.

[Sing_Sling]

anyone that is involved in the drug trade in any way deserves everything they get, if that is jail time then so be it, why do these appologists make excuses for the idiots.

So you'd suggest putting the manufacturers of alcohol and tobacco into jail, as well as the owners of the shops (including Big C and 7-11) and bars and nightclubs that sell them?

You're mistaking something that is legal to something that is illegal, and doing so does your cause no good whatsoever. This is the situation, change it. Until then it is what it is - complain about it, certainly, but don't try to rationalise something that isn't open to rationalisation.

Does tobacco and alcohol kill thousands? Absolutely. Are they legal? Yes.

Do drugs kill thousands? Absolutely. Are they legal? No

(Before obfuscating the issue, I think it is quite clear what 'drugs' are meant)

I have not mistaken anything. I know that seajae meant illegal "drugs". I just wanted to play with his loose use of the word "drugs" and include legal drugs under the umbrella. The legal drug trade, despite the harm that these drugs cause, has an enormous distribution network and includes the big supermarkets and convenience stores, and I wanted to mention that.

I'm sure everyone is aware of the situation

[hyperdimension]

I'm sure everyone is aware of the situation

You can't assume that, when there are people around who still think alcohol is not a drug, some of whom can't or don't want to accept such a fact, whilst others have never heard or seen it referred to as a drug.

Edited May 16, 2013 by hyperdimension

[seajae]

To be fair Dave, for me it's not about the harm anything does or may do, more the freedom of choice to put in my body what I want to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_cannabis

Not sure what half of it means but it sounds impressive...

Agreed, 100% - that's my drift when I compare informed drug use to other risky activities like skydiving and horse riding.

However, experience has taught me that the uninformed, mass-media-hype believers need a stronger argument than that. To me, it's essential that the debate continues, otherwise the rest of the world is going to join the US in incarcerating a large percentage their population for simple drug offences, breaking up families, destroying employment opportunities and robbing innocent people of their freedom - which incidentally is the topic of this forum, lest we forget!

The systematic persecution of both drug users and abusers must stop - I'll do my utmost to inform people of the facts, adding just a little to the growing momentum behind a common sense solution.

I've posted this link before, but here goes again - these 'radical' ideas are even supported by some members of the US law enforcement agencies: http://www.leap.cc/

I started using over 40 years ago, back then there was bugger all really known about it, we used to smoke openly in pubs( the lounge at the lady bay in Warnambool comes to mind), these days with all the medical evidence of what harm over use can d,o anyone using big time is an idiot. My mates back home keep up with their excuses but in reality all they are doing is making themselves feel good about it, they cant admit that they are that hooked they cannot see the truth yet they are all great people. It is easy to become hooked but each person has to accept that it is their decision, making up excuses doesnt make it right. I love driving and dont mind speed but I also know it is dangerous(especially here), going by some comments I should be able to do it because it is relaxing/entertainment for me, just because its illegal doesnt mean a thing. When do we have to start taking responsibility for what we choose to do, when we are young, its a new adventure but as we mature we are supposed to become wiser, from what I have seen in here some just become more adolescent using bullsh*t to excuse themselves. I dont need to get pissed to enjoy myself and I certainly wont drive after drinking(I smartened up after my youth), I didnt need to get a wife that could be my daughter just so I could feel good about myself or for my "image", Anyone that has to do anything to make themselves out to be something else/personal gratification need help or simply have not accepted they are getting older. This might upset a few people in here but have an honest look at yourselves, if you smoke occasionally for relaxation/enjoyment fine, if you have to make excuses for doing it you are full of it. Mate, I do have sympathy for those that are caught up in drugs through no real knowledge/advice on them but when they are used as a crutch then I have none, it becomes a personal excuse. We choose to smoke, drink, drive like an idiot, do drugs and we also have the choice of not doing them, I do not accept what a govt tells me I can and cant do, I look at it and make my own decisions, I dont make excuses, I accept my own responsibility, others need to do this as well.

[fasteddie]

anyone that is involved in the drug trade in any way deserves everything they get, if that is jail time then so be it, why do these appologists make excuses for the idiots.

Millions of people all over the world take recreational drugs and why shouldn't they? not your business or any stupid governments for that matter! All it does is fill up prisons with innocent of real crimes people and waste millions in taxes.

[Thai at Heart]

Too Many people unknown but drug related Laws in Laos are considered lean in comparing with neighboring countries.

The reason is that Laos (as the ONLY country in ASEAN) has labelled drug use and abuse in 3 categories.

1. recreational use (family discouragement )

2, regular use (community discouragement i,a village militia)

3. daily abuse (harsh treatment in rehabilitation centers)

Addicts (cat 3) are treated as patients by law and receive treatment instead of jail time.

As Laos moves forward in a fast pace,other countries in the ASEAN pac might be encouraged to look at the jurisprudence of Laos in this matter.

Quite a good method . . . but isn't this article about distribution/selling?

anyone that is involved in the drug trade in any way deserves everything they get, if that is jail time then so be it, why do these appologists make excuses for the idiots.

So you'd suggest putting the manufacturers of alcohol and tobacco into jail, as well as the owners of the shops (including Big C and 7-11) and bars and nightclubs that sell them?

You're mistaking something that is legal to something that is illegal, and doing so does your cause no good whatsoever. This is the situation, change it. Until then it is what it is - complain about it, certainly, but don't try to rationalise something that isn't open to rationalisation.

Does tobacco and alcohol kill thousands? Absolutely. Are they legal? Yes.

Do drugs kill thousands? Absolutely. Are they legal? No

(Before obfuscating the issue, I think it is quite clear what 'drugs' are meant)

So surely the argument should be, how to wean governments of tax take from booze and fags?

[Sing_Sling]

Too Many people unknown but drug related Laws in Laos are considered lean in comparing with neighboring countries.

The reason is that Laos (as the ONLY country in ASEAN) has labelled drug use and abuse in 3 categories.

1. recreational use (family discouragement )

2, regular use (community discouragement i,a village militia)

3. daily abuse (harsh treatment in rehabilitation centers)

Addicts (cat 3) are treated as patients by law and receive treatment instead of jail time.

As Laos moves forward in a fast pace,other countries in the ASEAN pac might be encouraged to look at the jurisprudence of Laos in this matter.

Quite a good method . . . but isn't this article about distribution/selling?

So y

ou'd suggest putting the manufacturers of alcohol and tobacco into jail, as well as the owners of the shops (including Big C and 7-11) and bars and nightclubs that sell them?

ockquote>

You're mistaking something that is legal to something that is illegal, and doing so does your cause no good whatsoever. This is the situation, change it. Until then it is what it is - complain about it, certainly, but don't try to rationalise something that isn't open to rationalisation.

Does tobacco and alcohol kill thousands? Absolutely. Are they legal? Yes.

Do drugs kill thousands? Absolutely. Are they legal? No

(Before obfuscating the issue, I think it is quite clear what 'drugs' are meant)ockquote>

So surely the argument should be, how to wean governments of tax take from booze and fags?

It should be, but taxes keep getting raised on booze and fags in the guise of making it too expensive to consume . . . yet tax income keeps going up and up.

Government s can't simply make the consumption of booze and cigs illegal as they would be sued left, right and centre - it's a no-win situation . . . though I have yet to find anyone saying it's actually a good thing for kids to start getting into the smoking habit

Edited May 21, 2013 by Sing_Sling

[Sing_Sling]

^ Sorry, the quote function really is rubbish

[Lancelot]

Wars on Drugs are big business. Prisons, Police, Prosecutors...

When they make me the Boss, I'd legalize drugs, then regulate and tax it the same as alcohol products. For the record, I'm personally against drugs but its futile to think that drug usage will ever be eliminated.

Illegal drugs = massive profits for gangs. As long as their is a demand for a product or service, some enterprising person will attempt to supply the goods.

[simple1]

anyone that is involved in the drug trade in any way deserves everything they get, if that is jail time then so be it, why do these appologists make excuses for the idiots.

Millions of people all over the world take recreational drugs and why shouldn't they? not your business or any stupid governments for that matter! All it does is fill up prisons with innocent of real crimes people and waste millions in taxes.

Recreational drug users sometimes require the assistance of emergency services. Any government funded services de facto creates government involvement. So are you saying that "stupid governments" should not fund services for recreational users and not endeavour to limit harm? However, I do agree that jailing users for small amounts of drug procession is a waste of resources.

I was a recreational user of both legal and illegal drugs (except heroin) for nearly 30 years. At one time I went one step beyond and was an addict for a year or so. Twice I accidentally overdosed and required emergency care at hospital. My use of hard drugs stopped after my second admittance when a night nurse asked me if I wanted to live or die

Although Seajay's circumstances were different to mine, he is absolutely correct that to cease the use of addictive drugs comes from within and if a user states they cannot stop, it's just an excuse as they really don't want to.

[doctorproc156]

"We may need to rethink our policy [on the war on drugs]," Sakchai said, adding that those caught possessing traditional drugs such as marijuana and krathom leaves should not be given severe sentences and that the mandatory penalty needs to be adjusted."

Finally people are waking up and Thailand needs to catch up with the rest of the world, it's already become fully legalized (under state law anyway) in Washington and Colorado and that includes selling and distribution in cafes and stores. All too often police who honestly know that marijuana isn't dangerous for you, abuse the fact that it is illegal to extort tourists and backpackers, this has happened time and time again where the Police entrap tourists and extort them for tens of thousands of baht. Thailand isn't nearly as bad as Malaysia where hundreds have already been executed and there are hundreds more still on death row JUST for marijuana possession, I quite frankly find this beyond sickening.

[simple1]

"We may need to rethink our policy [on the war on drugs]," Sakchai said, adding that those caught possessing traditional drugs such as marijuana and krathom leaves should not be given severe sentences and that the mandatory penalty needs to be adjusted."

Finally people are waking up and Thailand needs to catch up with the rest of the world, it's already become fully legalized (under state law anyway) in Washington and Colorado and that includes selling and distribution in cafes and stores. All too often police who honestly know that marijuana isn't dangerous for you, abuse the fact that it is illegal to extort tourists and backpackers, this has happened time and time again where the Police entrap tourists and extort them for tens of thousands of baht. Thailand isn't nearly as bad as Malaysia where hundreds have already been executed and there are hundreds more still on death row JUST for marijuana possession, I quite frankly find this beyond sickening.

Where do you get the numbers to claim hundreds have been executed and hundreds more on death row for marijuana? From a report dated 12/2012 from an Australian barister who specialises in death penalty cases "Malaysia has nearly 1,000 people on death row, but very rarely executes".

From another report, contradicts the above & cannot be verified as the Malaysian government doesn't publish the stats: Between 1960 and March 2011, authorities in Malaysia executed 228 people for drug crimes in the country

[doctorproc156]

"We may need to rethink our policy [on the war on drugs]," Sakchai said, adding that those caught possessing traditional drugs such as marijuana and krathom leaves should not be given severe sentences and that the mandatory penalty needs to be adjusted."

Finally people are waking up and Thailand needs to catch up with the rest of the world, it's already become fully legalized (under state law anyway) in Washington and Colorado and that includes selling and distribution in cafes and stores. All too often police who honestly know that marijuana isn't dangerous for you, abuse the fact that it is illegal to extort tourists and backpackers, this has happened time and time again where the Police entrap tourists and extort them for tens of thousands of baht. Thailand isn't nearly as bad as Malaysia where hundreds have already been executed and there are hundreds more still on death row JUST for marijuana possession, I quite frankly find this beyond sickening.

Where do you get the numbers to claim hundreds have been executed and hundreds more on death row for marijuana? From a report dated 12/2012 from an Australian barister who specialises in death penalty cases "Malaysia has nearly 1,000 people on death row, but very rarely executes".

From another report, contradicts the above & cannot be verified as the Malaysian government doesn't publish the stats: Between 1960 and March 2011, authorities in Malaysia executed 228 people for drug crimes in the country

http://www.ntv7.com.my/7edition/local-en/WORLD_BRIEF_1369019176.html

http://www.nst.com.my/latest/trio-gets-death-for-trafficking-cannabis-1.282039

http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/Mahkamah/20130520/ma_04/Dua-sahabat-edar-dadah-digantung-sampai-mati

All 3 examples are only from yesterday and today, I follow Malaysian news quite closely and I have seen this time and time again year after year. Of course there is no official statistic but I only gave those numbers as a rough ballpark figure.

More examples:

http://www.legalise.mondialvillage.com/countries/Malaysia/index.html

A lot of cases go unreported but these are the ones that have been reported are fairly recent as only now has this kind of information been made available to the public via the internet. Malaysia has always enforced harsh penalties on cannabis. Now whether they execute them or not is private information and not released to the public, I made my statement on the assumption that they do execute around half of those convicted over the years for cannabis related crimes, however I do agree with you on that I may have slightly exaggerated and I would like to retract "hundreds have been executed" but rather "hundreds have been placed on death row and their eventuality remains a secret from the public". I have read this on news papers in the past and it was quite often you would see something like this, this was of course before the internet became a mainstream source of information.

Edited May 21, 2013 by anantha92

[Sing_Sling]

"W

Now whether they execute them or not is private information and not released to the public, I made my statement on the assumption that they do execute around half of those convicted over the years for cannabis related crimes.

Utter rubbish - it is not private information - what do you think you're dealing with here? You made your statement with an obvious lack of facts and deciding that 50% is a good number is an outrageously vapid claim . . . unless you can back it up.