My Gf Is Actually Pregnant - Very Bad

[Mike Punter]

No idea whisch forum to post, so mederator may relocate.

My longterm girlfriend lives for the past couple of years in my BKK apartment, which I own. She travels to stay with me in Europe, and I am in Thailand quite often.

Our relationship is rocky for some time. It is now mostly just her sitting in a corner chattng on facebook to whoever she chats with, and her yelling at the top of her lungs at me for hours (literally) on end.

I currently (by agreement) pay some money to support her mom and 8 years old son from her previous relationship. The son has been parked at the mother's house since he was very young. My gf has younger sisters that live there too. His father died many years ago. I really love this boy and have no problem helping him. She


I hardly ever have sex with my gf these days, however my girlfriend has managed to get pregnant. I do not know if it is mine and I did not ask. She says it is.

We never had any intention of having children or getting married, this is an accident (or her screwing around). Either way the issue is real.

I understand terminations are illegal in Thailand, but they are possible and it could be arranged if she wished. She initially wanted a termination, but she has changed her mind and she is now using this situation as leverage to extract as many millions of THB as she can get. She has threatened my life, legal action to cause me economic pain etc. etc. unless I come good with several million THB etc. This is the start of a life of being a blackmail victiom - not a good situation.


For what it is worth, my GF is not a bargirl, has never worked in a bar and comes from a nice (but poor) family. We have been together for 6 years and for quite a lot of that time it was pretty good.


Anyway, What are my legal obligations? What are my options? What are my risks (I own property here)? What should I do?

Mike

[Boo]

abortion is not illegal. unless you are married you are not considered the legal father. I would personally send her back home witha budget of a few thousand baht a month & once baby is born do a paternity test & make a decision from there. fyi child support in thailand is 3k baht a month per child. there is no such concept as alimony.

[jbrain]

What should I do?

Go have dinner at the cabbages and condons restaurant.

[Morakot]

once baby is born do a paternity test

Prenatal paternity testing (non-invasive) is also an option, but costs are higher.

[Mike Punter]

According to my calculation, the maximum possible is 8 weeks pregnant. Getting a test just now is not feasible (I think).

I am sad it has come to this after many good and fun years, but she makes the mad Esan women on Thai daytime TV look mild in comparison these days.

She is irrational to the extreme and it is no longer possible to conduct a conversation on any matter without it turning into her shouting at me. She has irrational, violent jealousy towards my adult child, whom she has met exactly once (last year) and towards whom she behaved absolutely appallingly. This more or less ended my hopes of things being permanent.

Sending her "back home" will not fly. She does not want to be there. Throwing her out will be messy, and I would defniitely need legal hlp with that, otherwise it would turn physically violent, and a farang cannot win in this case.

She is a dreamer and somehow thinks I can be forced to buy her family a farm, house etc.etc (which I cannot afford). She has lost touch with reality.

Mike

[pigeonjake]

first thing find out if it is yours,

if it isnt just tell her to go away in short sharp jerky movments

jake

[Mike Punter]

Bugger, post got lost.

At 8 weeks might be difficult to get a paternity test.

Re: Cabbages. Aside from the fact there is a clinic near the restaurant, the food is not to shabby and there are free condoms at the door, whay should I go there now?

[rubberduck]

she is now using this situation as leverage to extract as many millions

of THB as she can get. She has threatened my life, legal action to cause

me economic pain etc. etc. unless I come good with several million

on what base ??? legal action for what ???

are you sure she is pregnant or is she crooked and teeling lies ?

perhaps to have a chat with a lawyer, but I would never pay her any satang especially not via this way.

[Tywais]

We need to be careful here about comments on abortion as abortion on demand is illegal. Only under certain circumstances is it allowed such as danger to the mother's health. So recommendations for where to have an abortion would be inappropriate and against forum rules.

[Morakot]

According to my calculation, the maximum possible is 8 weeks pregnant. Getting a test just now is not feasible (I think).

Pregnancy tests can be done a few days after conception and a non-invasive prenatal paternity test after about ten weeks.

[frankold]

Tell her you will goto the Thai embassy and file a formal complaint?

[Mike Punter]

Well, as I wrote, I am already paying, but it has not been a big deal because I send it to her mom who does look after the boy.

She also get's money whenever she needs it and I pay for the aparment etc. She lies about what she spends it all on though, and get's angry if I ask "where that 30,000THB went".

My gut feeling is that I should bite the bullet, send her back home to her mom with a support offer (notorised if necessary, depending on proof of paternity) and let them deal with the family embarrassment.

[frankold]

We need to be careful here about comments on abortion as abortion on demand is illegal.  Only under certain circumstances is it allowed such as danger to the mother's health.  So recommendations for where to have an abortion would be inappropriate and against forum rules.

And danger to the fathers health?

[Mike Punter]

@rubberduck: I will be visiting a lawyer tomorrow or as soon as I find one. Are Siam Law who advertise here any good, too expensive or where should I go? The pregnancy test said yes, who am I to argue?

I am just in country this week to try and sort this mess out. So far it has just her endless stream of irrational and unintelligble bullshit - plus of course the obligatory yelling at me.

I may wake up dead in the morning

[benalibina]

Family influences, you are aware of any ?

[Mike Punter]

Influences?? Not sure what you mean.

Her family do not know she is pregnant yet. I get on well with her family and I have always treated them respectively, and they have reciprocated.

This is an issue with my neurotic girlfriend and her idea that her unrealistic feelings of entitlement can now be realised by leveraging this unfortunate situation, which neither of us in fact wanted.

[NeverSure]

Good luck mate. I don't know the answers. Whatever you do don't allow that child to be born in Europe, become a citizen and you be bound to European support laws.

I don't know how you force her out of the condo and back to her family which is what I'd want to do. Even if the child was mine I would want to make the rules about support, etc., which would probably be more than Thai law demands, but far less than she expects.

[Mike Punter]

I will update again tomorrow with further news. Thanks for the input

[frankold]

In all seriousness I'd be having a quiet word with the front desk and/or security to find out exactly whats going on while your not around. See if you can dig up a little ammunition of your own.

The chances are the kids not yours if you've rarely been screwing her and now she wants to use it as leverage to get rid of the unwelcome doormat.

[benalibina]

Not everything you can take face value in life, regarding family influences. Especially in thailand, my personal opinion though. You state that you pay for her mother and son already in the village and that she is your longterm girlfriend. Why does she, or you together, not take care of her son ? You state that she is a dreamer and lost touch with reality. You own property so those dreams, in her mind, are not far off. If the child is yours, what do you want yourself ?

[Loptr]

Just walk away. Whatever you have to lose in your apartment is not worth the headache you are about to have if you try to get rid of her.

[Mike Punter]

@benalbina.

The reason the boy does not live in Bangkok is because my GF uses any excuse to not look after him. OK, he likes living in the country and going fishing and stuff and like visiting here but wants to stay up country. Fair enough, but she has 20 other reasons as well. My apartment is big enough for 3 ( I am not here all the time either), and I offerred to put him in a good school etc. etc. The discussion went on for 2 years before I gave up. She just raises the bar every time and I cannot deliver on it. Neither of us wanted a kid and I still don't - it was an accident and is a collossal mistake not to get a termination. Heartless as it may sound, I really don't see any upside to being part of it's life.

I was already at the point of tossing her out before this - she has become unbearable. Blind jealousy of my past, my adult daughter and a massive malplaced sense of entitlement are a toxic combination. Anyway, I had a couple of promises I had to deliver on from long ago which I have done, so from my point of view I don't owe her anything. I can live without ever seeing her or having sex with her again. It will break my heart to lose contact with her son, we are good buddies and I love him - a mistake I know

@frankold

None of the staff at my condo speak english, and she is quite friendly with the staff. I doubt there is any information to get there. In any case, I don't believe that she has been sleeping around, at least not until there is evidence to the contrary (I know, I know, I know that trusting a Thai is a mistake). I am pretty sure she loves me (we have been together quite a while) but who knows what twisted girls with too many hormones in their bodies think - I sure don't.

She knows that if it is someone else's that it will become known eventually. Tonight she demanded I go to the Dr. with her to get a blood test with her. I doubt whether she would be in such a hurry to do that if she thought it was not mine. I am not going to do this without taking legal counsel.

This is all going to get very nasty.

[Mike Punter]

Good luck mate. I don't know the answers. Whatever you do don't allow that child to be born in Europe, become a citizen and you be bound to European support laws.

I don't know how you force her out of the condo and back to her family which is what I'd want to do. Even if the child was mine I would want to make the rules about support, etc., which would probably be more than Thai law demands, but far less than she expects.

Good point. She has a valid multi-entry Schengen visa at my invitation, and a return ticket to Europe in June. Methinks I had better have a word to the Embassy who issued the visa.

She is clearly an overstay risk, and might get the idea that having a baby born in Europe is smart.

[Mike Punter]

Just walk away. Whatever you have to lose in your apartment is not worth the headache you are about to have if you try to get rid of her.

You are suggesting I just pack and leave?

I could move out and try and sell it from under her to recover something, though I doubt that is feasible.

I will meet my legal obligations to her, but I don't think she has figured out yet that I already pay considerably more to her mom & son now than she is likely to get awarded by a Thai court as child support (3-6K I am told). The best she can hope for by her chosen course of action is to be worse off, and have the extra burden on her and her family of an extra child. I bailed her family out of debt many years ago in order that my gf would not feel obligated to her family to be married off to some rich Thai (yes, this was on the cards). I have made her familiy's lives better, helped her sister through university and helped her other sister when she got married and I do not regret that at all.

The predictable end result here though, is that the family will end in the same position as when I came into the frame, which make me feel like my efforts have all been a pointless exercise.

[gentlebreeze]

Mate I really feel for you and your awful situation but you must be strong and take control of your life! I understand the complications and torment you are going through at losing her son who you clearly love and provided for as your own. If nothing changes and you accept her bullying and harassment without standing up to her then she will see that as a weakness and her aggression towards you will only get stronger and more frequent until your health both physically and mentally suffers. I'm afraid it's time for you to make a decision once and for all! Ask yourself a few home truths.... What's most important to you at this time and in your future? You need to think this through and be honest with yourself and start thinking about YOUR happiness and future rather than worrying about anyone else's feelings and well being ! You seem like a nice guy but please grow a pair and be strong and stand tall and face her back and tell her it's over!! Give her prior notice of a few days to leave and if she ain't gone by that deadline threaten her with legal authorisation to have her physically removed. What ever or how much it costs finding a good lawyer to do this is way far less than living a life of misery and financial ruin keeping this leech and her families heads above water!

Good luck and I pray and hope you find an answer and eventually some real happiness and a true loving girl to share your heart and your life with in the LOS!

[benalibina]

Just walk away. Whatever you have to lose in your apartment is not worth the headache you are about to have if you try to get rid of her.

You are suggesting I just pack and leave?

I could move out and try and sell it from under her to recover something, though I doubt that is feasible.

I will meet my legal obligations to her, but I don't think she has figured out yet that I already pay considerably more to her mom & son now than she is likely to get awarded by a Thai court as child support (3-6K I am told). The best she can hope for by her chosen course of action is to be worse off, and have the extra burden on her and her family of an extra child. I bailed her family out of debt many years ago in order that my gf would not feel obligated to her family to be married off to some rich Thai (yes, this was on the cards). I have made her familiy's lives better, helped her sister through university and helped her other sister when she got married and I do not regret that at all.

The predictable end result here though, is that the family will end in the same position as when I came into the frame, which make me feel like my efforts have all been a pointless exercise.

Most likely she felt that the relationship was coming to an end. Sheer luck, or ??, she became pregnant. As you indicated hormones play a part now and she is playing the ruthless card on you. All this is a test for you. I referred before about family influences. You have helped them out apparantly and have done good in your eyes. Maybe to good. Buying them, know that you not see it that way, brings expectations. They do not mind to go back to where they belong. They are survivors. Its sad for her son though who you like alot. Alot of wisdom and strength you need. But as you are an open person, you will do the right and correct thing. Balance of the heart and the mind !

[David48]

Pregnancy tests can be done a few days after conception and a non-invasive prenatal paternity test after about ten weeks.

That's not going to be the worst advice you get here.

Suggest the above to your gf ... if she flatly refuses, that maybe a signpost to the child's father ...

If she consents willingly then then one part of your dilemma will have been resolved.

.

[Mike Punter]

A couple of people mentioned child support at 3-5K per month.

I spoke with a solicitor today who said that it is pretty much at the court's discretion. There is no "minimum" amount stipulated by law, there is no amount that could be reasonably called "judicial practice" either. I was told it is pretty much whatever she can convince a court that she legitimately needs, and those needs can change over time and the support amount can be adjusted accordingly. Further, even if one enters into a binding agreement for support, she can always petition to have the amount changed due to changed circumstances. The solictor personally had clients that had been dinged for several tens of thousands of THB per month.

None of this sounds encoraging.

[BookMan]

Mate, tell her you want to get married and ask her to go home so she can speak to her mum and start getting things organised ASAP before the birth of the baby.

Once she is gone from your apartment, take it from there...

[Sheryl]

According to my calculation, the maximum possible is 8 weeks pregnant. Getting a test just now is not feasible (I think).

I am sad it has come to this after many good and fun years, but she makes the mad Esan women on Thai daytime TV look mild in comparison these days.

She is irrational to the extreme and it is no longer possible to conduct a conversation on any matter without it turning into her shouting at me. She has irrational, violent jealousy towards my adult child, whom she has met exactly once (last year) and towards whom she behaved absolutely appallingly. This more or less ended my hopes of things being permanent.

Sending her "back home" will not fly. She does not want to be there. Throwing her out will be messy, and I would defniitely need legal hlp with that, otherwise it would turn physically violent, and a farang cannot win in this case.

She is a dreamer and somehow thinks I can be forced to buy her family a farm, house etc.etc (which I cannot afford). She has lost touch with reality.

Mike

Well you obviously have a number of problems to contend with but I suggest you deal with the pregnancy first.

It is perfectly feasible to test for pregnancy at 8 weeks..or even 2. By 8 weeks, home pregnancy testsd are very accurate. Buy one at a pharmacy and have her test in front of you. Fake claims of pregnancy are not unusual.

If it is confirmed she is pregnant, please see the pinned thread on abortion in Thailand ion the Health forum.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/143682-abortion-in-thailand/

If she wants termination, and you are in Bkk, escort her to the PDA Clinic which is, indeed, near the Cabbages & Condoms restaurant. DO NOT DELAY as if she is already 8 weeks, the window for an outpatient clinic procedure will close in a week or so.

If it is confirmed she is pregnant and she does not want a termination (has to be her decision) then get a paternity test on the baby after birth. If yours ,I hope you'll be weilling to seek custody as it does nto sound like she is going to be very good mother material....

With luck it will turn out she isn't pregnant.