Pros And Cons Of Having A Thai Passport?

[MAJIC]

For me, I'd rather phrase it this way - are there any major disadvantages?

IMO it's always good for the sake of flexibility to have multiple citizenships. You never know the future maybe you should investigate becoming a Thai citizen yourself if you're ever living here for a period of years.

And if you ever want to take advantage of being the spouse of a Thai national. . .

Finally, in her heart she'll always be Thai, I would be very surprised if a Thai would be happy to give up their citizenship.

I know 3 Thais who do not bother to renew their Thai Passport anymore,as they have British Citizenship. Personally I always encourage my wife to keep her options open

[Trembly]

if you are American it is illegal to enter on your 2nd passport without telling the officials. i bet it is the same in Thailand. just saying.

Never heard that one before. Are you sure about that?

http://london.usembassy.gov/cons_new/faqs/faq_citizenship.html

That rule also exists in Thailand but it does not apply to natural born Thais.

[Big Gary]

How would you go on Purchasing land or house etc IF you have given up Thai Citizenship and now only have British Citizenship?????????

[samran]

How would you go on Purchasing land or house etc IF you have given up Thai Citizenship and now only have British Citizenship?????????

You wouldn't be able to do legally, unless you relied on setting up a company etc etc.

The thing is though, very few people have actually given up Thai citizenship. People living overseas for a long time may be under the impression they've lost it due to taking up a new nationality, or because the married a foreigner, but unless they made a voluntary renuncition, sent that to the Ministry of Interior, and that renunciation was accepted and published in the Royal Gazette, then they are almost certainly still a Thai national.

[Arkady]

How would you go on Purchasing land or house etc IF you have given up Thai Citizenship and now only have British Citizenship?????????

You wouldn't be able to do legally, unless you relied on setting up a company etc etc.

The thing is though, very few people have actually given up Thai citizenship. People living overseas for a long time may be under the impression they've lost it due to taking up a new nationality, or because the married a foreigner, but unless they made a voluntary renuncition, sent that to the Ministry of Interior, and that renunciation was accepted and published in the Royal Gazette, then they are almost certainly still a Thai national.

Like everything else to do with government, renunciation of Thai citizenship is a tedious bureaucratic process. You can file papers for this with a Thai embassy abroad but they have pass the case to Special Branch who will pass it to the Interior Ministry, if the documentation is in order. They need to be sure you have another citizenship or will receive another one as soon as your Thai citizenship is dissolved. The minister has to sign and, as Samran says, the renunciation needs to be published in the Royal Gazette to be effective. So giving up Thai citizenship requires a certain amount of effort and engagement with the bureaucracy and is not something you can do by accident or without knowing about it.

Land Department officials need to see your ID card and tabien baan. They don't want to see your passport and don't care that you have been living overseas under a foreign passport for decades. As long as you can get hold of these two documents, you can buy land.

[krisb]

So Chitty does that now mean your wife is able to get a British pension when that time comes about?

Congratulations also mate!...

[krisb]

How would you go on Purchasing land or house etc IF you have given up Thai Citizenship and now only have British Citizenship?????????

You wouldn't be able to do legally, unless you relied on setting up a company etc etc.

The thing is though, very few people have actually given up Thai citizenship. People living overseas for a long time may be under the impression they've lost it due to taking up a new nationality, or because the married a foreigner, but unless they made a voluntary renuncition, sent that to the Ministry of Interior, and that renunciation was accepted and published in the Royal Gazette, then they are almost certainly still a Thai national.

Samrans very knowlegable for someone with beady eyes and a finger up his nose!...

[Chittychangchang]

So Chitty does that now mean your wife is able to get a British pension when that time comes about?

Congratulations also mate!...

Yes mate!

In another 30 years we'll both be retiring and living of our British pensions, happy days!

CCC

[ChiefBEM]

keep thai passport, once you give it up thai officials vindictive if you ever want to get it back. bunch of thais came to work in u.s. got american passporst, gave up thai now retired and have been trying for years to get back there thai passport not happening.

???????

This is just a bit of heads-up when it comes to United States Passports.

The United States Immigration and Naturalization laws prohibit Dual-Citizenship of a "Naturalized"

U.S. Citizen when it is with a previous country of which they have heretofore been a subject or citizen.

It is a violation of the Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America

Technically, a Naturalized U.S. Citizen would lose their U.S. Citizenship for violating their

Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America if they maintained

a passport from a previous country of which they have heretofore been a subject or citizen

and the U.S. charged them.

(Note: Today, President Obama’s Administration acts sporadic when it comes to the enforcement

of Immigration laws.)

Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America

Oath

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all

allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty,

of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that

I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of

America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith

and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United

States when required by the law; that I will perform

noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by

the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian

direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely

without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

When requested, the U.S. will allow a modification of the Naturalization

Oath to eliminate "so help me God."

Again, President Obama’s Administration acts sporadic when it comes to the enforcement of Immigration

laws.

[ChiefBEM]

"bitcoinbob, on 23 May 2013 - 00:19, said:

keep thai passport, once you give it up thai officials vindictive if you ever want to get it back. bunch of thais came to work in u.s. got american passporst, gave up thai now retired and have been trying for years to get back there thai passport not happening."

Thailand accepts the U.S. Laws on Dual-Citizenship of previous Thai Citizens.

All the people you mentioned have to do, in order to regain their Thai Passport, is renounce their U.S. Citizenship and after that Thailand will accept them back as Thai Citizens and issue them Thai passports so they can leave the U.S. or apply for U.S. visas.

[Trembly]

So Chitty does that now mean your wife is able to get a British pension when that time comes about?

Congratulations also mate!...

Yes mate!

In another 30 years we'll both be retiring and living of our British pensions, happy days!

CCC

If they haven't moved the pensionable age up to 88 by then, or indeed, if there's anything left in the kitty for a pension at all!

[Chittychangchang]

So Chitty does that now mean your wife is able to get a British pension when that time comes about?

Congratulations also mate!...

Yes mate!

In another 30 years we'll both be retiring and living of our British pensions, happy days!

CCC

If they haven't moved the pensionable age up to 88 by then, or indeed, if there's anything left in the kitty for a pension at all!

We've still got 30 years to save up for our retirement yet!

I agree there will probally be little left in the pot and we'll all be required to work till we drop.

It's time to get investing any spare change in land/gold etc.

CCC

[Arkady]

from a purely organizational standpoint, letting people enter on a foreign passport when they are a citizen seems a bit strange to me.

The UK may be an exception here. Citizens are welcome to enter with any passport they like, although they will no longer provide right of adobe stamps in foreign passports to those holding a current British passport (too many Nigerian and other African passports with UK right of abode stickers ended up in the hands of friends, relatives, customers of the rightful owners). A lot of Chinese also enter China on foreign passports in the hope of getting consular protection, if they fall foul of the authorities. Probably only the US will give any consular assistance to their nationals in this case. In Thailand they made some noise about the Thai-American who went to prison for posting a Thai translation of a couple of chapters of Paul Handley's book on a US website. The UK would not do anything for a dual national imprisoned in his other country and they make this clear.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Arkady

[Richard W]

I think there isn't a country in the world that would turn their citizen away at their own border crossing if you can prove your citizenship.

I think the UK might. The UK can demand a UK passport (not necessarily unexpired) or ID card before admitting someone on the basis that they are a citizen with right of abode (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/IDIs/idischapter1/section1/section1.pdf?view=Binary). I suspect this is why Abu Hamza made such a fuss about getting his passport before he was extradited to the US.

[Thot]

Re; ChiefBem #39

U.S. citizen is required to renounce any prior "allegiance" to other countries during the naturalization ceremony;^[15] however, this renunciation of allegiance is generally not considered renunciation of citizenship to those countries.^[16]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_the_United_States#Dual_citizenship

It would appear to contadict your position.

Enjoyed your post but made me look further since I at first agreed with you.

[Neeranam]

True - I thought of saving some money when going to the UK last year by not renewing my kids passports, but then thought there might be a problem if something unexpected happened.

-

Yes if the only motive is to save a little time and money, that would IMO be silly, keep travel docs current and ready to go, especially if you have family on the other side and may need to hop on a plane quickly.

Save very little time and money : 1000 Baht for a five year passport and same day pickup in all major Thai cities.

I was thinking of not renewing my kids' British passports and just going with their Thai ones. They UK ones cost about 150 GBP and had to get them from Hong Kong. I could have saved some money also by getting them renewed in the UK.

[Neeranam]

If you're thinking that she can just stop renewing her Thai passport every 5 years to save 1000 Baht (or 200 Baht a year) because surely a Thai ID card is enough to enter Thailand at an airport then you / your wife have got another thing coming.

I once left my Thai passport on a flight coming back from the UK and my Thai ID card was stored in my luggage which I could not access; maybe it was just my misfortune to run into some jobsworths but it resulted in several hours of bureaucratic buggery that do not wish to ever repeat.

She can't go to ASEAN or Russia for 30 days visa-free on a British passport like she can on a Thai passport either.

Wikipedia : Visa requirements for Thai citizens.

Is it ok if you have your ID?

I know it's OK for a British citizen to enter the UK without a passport.

how would you get on a plane, If you did not have a pass port.

You can use your second passport.

[Trembly]

True - I thought of saving some money when going to the UK last year by not renewing my kids passports, but then thought there might be a problem if something unexpected happened.

-

Yes if the only motive is to save a little time and money, that would IMO be silly, keep travel docs current and ready to go, especially if you have family on the other side and may need to hop on a plane quickly.

Save very little time and money : 1000 Baht for a five year passport and same day pickup in all major Thai cities.

I was thinking of not renewing my kids' British passports and just going with their Thai ones. They UK ones cost about 150 GBP and had to get them from Hong Kong. I could have saved some money also by getting them renewed in the UK.

That makes sense if you and the children intend to spend most of your time in Thailand. The Thai passport really comes into its own in and around ASEAN, whilst the benefits of a British passport won't manifest themselves until you intend to spend some time in the countries that require a visa for Thai citizens (which are decreasing, by the way).

However, without British valid passports your children may find themselves in a bit of a jam if you had to go back to Britain in an emergency.

Utility of Thai passport

Utility of British passport

Edited June 30, 2013 by Trembly

[Arkady]

Re; ChiefBem #39

U.S. citizen is required to renounce any prior "allegiance" to other countries during the naturalization ceremony;^%5B15%5D however, this renunciation of allegiance is generally not considered renunciation of citizenship to those countries.^%5B16%5D

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_the_United_States#Dual_citizenship

It would appear to contadict your position.

Enjoyed your post but made me look further since I at first agreed with you.

In fact there was a US Supreme Court ruling on this issue in the early 80s that confirms that retaining former citizenship is not inconsistent with the oath of allegiance.

I have family members in the US who are or were dual UK/US citizens and US by naturalisation. One joined the US foreign service and was asked if he was willing to renounce his UK citizenship, if asked to, but has never been asked to. Another joined the US military and was asked to renounce his UK citizenship. So the approaches of different US government departments are inconsistent. The Foreign Service seems to take a rational view depending on how friendly the other country is and the UK is still one of their closest friends. Iranians and Somalis joining the Foreign Service probably need to relinquish their former citizenships pretty damn quick.

[Arkady]

Re; ChiefBem #39

U.S. citizen is required to renounce any prior "allegiance" to other countries during the naturalization ceremony;^%5B15%5D however, this renunciation of allegiance is generally not considered renunciation of citizenship to those countries.^%5B16%5D

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_the_United_States#Dual_citizenship

It would appear to contadict your position.

Enjoyed your post but made me look further since I at first agreed with you.

In fact there was a US Supreme Court ruling on this issue in the early 80s that confirms that retaining former citizenship is not inconsistent with the oath of allegiance.

I have family members in the US who are or were dual UK/US citizens and US by naturalisation. One joined the US foreign service and was asked if he was willing to renounce his UK citizenship, if asked to, but has never been asked to. Another joined the US military and was asked to renounce his UK citizenship. So the approaches of different US government departments are inconsistent. The Foreign Service seems to take a rational view depending on how friendly the other country is and the UK is still one of their closest friends. Iranians and Somalis joining the Foreign Service probably need to relinquish their former citizenships pretty damn quick.