Details Thaksin Did Not Tell The Red Shirts

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE
Details Thaksin did not tell the red shirts
Attayuth Bootsripoom

BANGKOK: -- The way former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra addressed the red shirts at their gathering on May 19 may have left people wondering if political reconciliation could actually be achieved.

Thaksin's address showed aggression, arrogance and overconfidence. It appeared he felt that his side now had the upper hand over his political enemies. And it seemed reconciliation was unnecessary for his side now.

In his address, made on the third anniversary of the 2010 dispersal of the red- shirts' anti-government rally, Thaksin told his supporters why he was overthrown in a coup. He described himself as a good and capable person. But he opted to ignore certain facts, such as his alleged abuse of power and interference with independent organisations.

He also said that the yellow-shirt protesters faced no opposition while he was in power, although a rally was planned for his supporters on September 20, 2006. A coup was staged one day before that, and an excuse by the coup-makers was to avert possible violence due to confrontation between both sides.

Those facts were intentionally left out, possibly in the hope that people would forget because they happened some years ago.

Also, Thaksin opted not to mention the draft of a so-called reconciliation bill proposed by Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung. The legislation draft is expected to be submitted to the House of Representatives later this week for deliberation. It would grant amnesty to all people involved in the recent political conflict since before the coup of September 19, 2006. All court cases resulting from the conflict would also be annulled retroactively, which means Thaksin would see his seized assets reinstated.

The proposed law is supposed to "restore justice" to all people involved in the conflict, but in fact the greatest beneficiary would be Thaksin.

If this draft is put into law, everyone involved - including the protesters, the protest leaders, the soldiers involved in the crackdown, as well as then-prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and his deputy Suthep Thaugsuban (who are both blamed by the red shirts for the deaths of many protesters in 2010) - will be spared from legal prosecution.

If Thaksin made it clear that he preferred Chalerm's draft, he could be viewed as using his supporters for his own benefit.

In his address, Thaksin said he backed another draft law proposed by Pheu Thai MP Worachai Hema that would give amnesty to all ordinary protesters, but not the protest leaders. However, earlier Thaksin had made a Skype call to a meeting of the ruling party's MPs and told them that he wanted the amnesty law to "go the full way". Thaksin's remark prompted as many as 149 Pheu Thai MPs to sign in support of Chalerm's draft law. Even Worachai admitted that Chalerm's draft was better than his.

However, there were also signs of dissatisfaction among many red shirts and their MP sympathisers who pointed out that Chalerm's draft would be unfair to the red shirts.

Thaksin appeared to be aware of the dissatisfaction, so he avoided mentioning Chalerm's draft while addressing the red shirts. But he did not speak against it either. Chalerm, meanwhile, has not stopped his campaign for a general amnesty law.

Abhisit, the Democrat Party chief and opposition leader, said that if Thaksin was sincere, he should tell Chalerm to drop his draft law. Abhisit said he believed Thaksin actually preferred Chalerm's legislation because it would benefit him most. However, he added, Thaksin voiced support for Worachai's draft law because he did not want to upset the red shirts during their gathering.

It is likely that both Worachai's and Chalerm's drafts would be tabled for House deliberation. They could be merged to become new legislation. That means if the red shirts want amnesty for their fellow protesters facing legal trouble, they have to allow Thaksin to get amnesty for all his cases and to have his seized assets returned.


-- The Nation 2013-05-23

[Bellweather]

Aggression, arrogance and over confidence, well it's nice to see M.r T has changed for the better.

As for not telling the red shirts everything it could be easily summed up " I am using you for my own ends and you make it so easy by being too thick to see it and see through me. Carry on the good work and always remember I will be behind you in times of trouble, very far behind you. "

[noitom]

The newspaper makes his celebrity out to be the number one story around Thailand. The newspaper empowers him by calling attention to his "secret" messaging. Wow, these Thais, they know about secret messaging. They are something else. Empower him, aggrandize him, call attention to his messages and signals, make him the constant subject and focus of attention. Boy oh boy are they smart, these Thais.

[Stradavarius37]

The newspaper makes his celebrity out to be the number one story around Thailand. The newspaper empowers him by calling attention to his "secret" messaging. Wow, these Thais, they know about secret messaging. They are something else. Empower him, aggrandize him, call attention to his messages and signals, make him the constant subject and focus of attention. Boy oh boy are they smart, these Thais.

And by commenting on the post...you are doing what, exactly.

Irony thy name is noitom...

[yoshiwara]

Agreeing a blanket amnesty is the only chance Thaksin has of sneaking back and our old Stalinist friend Thida will know the party drill on delivering U-turns, but it will stick in Thaksin's throat and just as he balked from personally applying for amnesty when it was on the table he may do so again. Those dreaming of a redshirt split and a new chance to wave the tattered flag of 'its not about Thaksin' will make lame attempts to wriggle on this one.

[jayboy]

Agreeing a blanket amnesty is the only chance Thaksin has of sneaking back and our old Stalinist friend Thida will know the party drill on delivering U-turns, but it will stick in Thaksin's throat and just as he balked from personally applying for amnesty when it was on the table he may do so again. Those dreaming of a redshirt split and a new chance to wave the tattered flag of 'its not about Thaksin' will make lame attempts to wriggle on this one.

If you wish to be taken seriously you will will need to present your case more convincingly.I take it your general line is that the current Thai political conflict is in essence "all about Thaksin" and that the underlying political and social divisions are of minor or secondary significance.

From any perspective with integrity the proposition stated above seems demonstrably false.Still it's an open forum and if you can make a case, let's hear it.So far you have failed and your arguments have generally been feeble, irritatingly accompanied by references to your half understood grasp of Marxist ideology.

Politicians and political parties regularly change positions.As John Maynard Keynes famously observed, "when the facts change, I change my mind, what do you do,sir?".

Still, giving thanks for small mercies, at least your post is free of yet another asinine reference to Arisman.

[OzMick]

Ahh the comments. Unfortunately, it will be the same old tired responses.

Can't we move on to something else?

When you have an ugly red blemish with a festering pustule at the centre, do you accept advice to ignore it and hope it fades away?

[frankold]

How long will his money stay seized for before being returned to the public coffers? Until the cash goes away, he won't.

[ChrisY1]

He's too scared to come back.....!

Amnesty or not......he remains a coward

[MikeOboe57]

Ahh the comments. Unfortunately, it will be the same old tired responses.

Can't we move on to something else?

When you have an ugly red blemish with a festering pustule at the centre, do you accept advice to ignore it and hope it fades away?

If you consider it a positive asset and decorating your overall appearance, why should you?

[hellodolly]

Agreeing a blanket amnesty is the only chance Thaksin has of sneaking back and our old Stalinist friend Thida will know the party drill on delivering U-turns, but it will stick in Thaksin's throat and just as he balked from personally applying for amnesty when it was on the table he may do so again. Those dreaming of a redshirt split and a new chance to wave the tattered flag of 'its not about Thaksin' will make lame attempts to wriggle on this one.

If you wish to be taken seriously you will will need to present your case more convincingly.I take it your general line is that the current Thai political conflict is in essence "all about Thaksin" and that the underlying political and social divisions are of minor or secondary significance.

From any perspective with integrity the proposition stated above seems demonstrably false.Still it's an open forum and if you can make a case, let's hear it.So far you have failed and your arguments have generally been feeble, irritatingly accompanied by references to your half understood grasp of Marxist ideology.

Politicians and political parties regularly change positions.As John Maynard Keynes famously observed, "when the facts change, I change my mind, what do you do,sir?".

Still, giving thanks for small mercies, at least your post is free of yet another asinine reference to Arisman.

Not sure what facts have changed?

Pay attention to Thaksin and you will see the lies change.

But the facts will not change.

On a side note do you really think Thaksin would return if given his full amnesty and all his money back.

One changed fact is Chalerm has decided not to follow through with his bill aimed at accomplishing this.

Do you as I do believe that there is a bullet in Thailand with Thaksins name on it.

I believe Thaksin fears that also.

Witness his fear of speaking in Tachalik Myanmar right on the border with Mai Sai a red shirt stronghold.

[hellodolly]

Ahh the comments. Unfortunately, it will be the same old tired responses.

Can't we move on to something else?

When you have an ugly red blemish with a festering pustule at the centre, do you accept advice to ignore it and hope it fades away?

Nature supplies us with an example of how some people choose to handle an unpleasant reality.

Stick your head in the sand.

[chainarong]

Agreeing a blanket amnesty is the only chance Thaksin has of sneaking back and our old Stalinist friend Thida will know the party drill on delivering U-turns, but it will stick in Thaksin's throat and just as he balked from personally applying for amnesty when it was on the table he may do so again. Those dreaming of a redshirt split and a new chance to wave the tattered flag of 'its not about Thaksin' will make lame attempts to wriggle on this one.

If you wish to be taken seriously you will will need to present your case more convincingly.I take it your general line is that the current Thai political conflict is in essence "all about Thaksin" and that the underlying political and social divisions are of minor or secondary significance.

From any perspective with integrity the proposition stated above seems demonstrably false.Still it's an open forum and if you can make a case, let's hear it.So far you have failed and your arguments have generally been feeble, irritatingly accompanied by references to your half understood grasp of Marxist ideology.

Politicians and political parties regularly change positions.As John Maynard Keynes famously observed, "when the facts change, I change my mind, what do you do,sir?".

Still, giving thanks for small mercies, at least your post is free of yet another asinine reference to Arisman.

Not sure what facts have changed?

Pay attention to Thaksin and you will see the lies change.

But the facts will not change.

On a side note do you really think Thaksin would return if given his full amnesty and all his money back.

One changed fact is Chalerm has decided not to follow through with his bill aimed at accomplishing this.

Do you as I do believe that there is a bullet in Thailand with Thaksins name on it.

I believe Thaksin fears that also.

Witness his fear of speaking in Tachalik Myanmar right on the border with Mai Sai a red shirt stronghold.

I think the man is a maniac if he came back , he made lots of enemy's in he's time as PM, for Piece in Thailand stay away.

[CrisRMenumate]

Jayboy: "If you wish to be taken seriously you will will need to present your case more convincingly.I take it your general line is that the current Thai political conflict is in essence "all about Thaksin" and that the underlying political and social divisions are of minor or secondary significance"

The latter is being hijacked because of the former.... that is the most salient point. The poor, disenfranchised, landless, rural and general population of Thailand have real grievances about their situation and how they are treated by the elite, powerful and wealthy. Unfortunately they have been duped into believing that one group of the elite, powerful and wealthy will help their plight, the reality is that group is only interested in increasing its power and wealth over the poor, disenfranchised, landless, rural and general population of Thailand. When there are a group of politicians and government authorities who actually do stand up for the whole country and the whole people for the betterment of both and all there might be change for the better, but don't hold your breath, there is too much money and power swilling around to bring out any honest people, and even honest people are duped into believing some ridiculous fantasies, on all sides of politics.

We are in a process of change, changing from one elite power base to another, the real struggle at hand is between those power groups and the pawns in this are of course the poor, disenfranchised, landless, rural and general population. Good luck with that!

[chainarong]

Agreeing a blanket amnesty is the only chance Thaksin has of sneaking back and our old Stalinist friend Thida will know the party drill on delivering U-turns, but it will stick in Thaksin's throat and just as he balked from personally applying for amnesty when it was on the table he may do so again. Those dreaming of a redshirt split and a new chance to wave the tattered flag of 'its not about Thaksin' will make lame attempts to wriggle on this one.

If you wish to be taken seriously you will will need to present your case more convincingly.I take it your general line is that the current Thai political conflict is in essence "all about Thaksin" and that the underlying political and social divisions are of minor or secondary significance.

From any perspective with integrity the proposition stated above seems demonstrably false.Still it's an open forum and if you can make a case, let's hear it.So far you have failed and your arguments have generally been feeble, irritatingly accompanied by references to your half understood grasp of Marxist ideology.

Politicians and political parties regularly change positions.As John Maynard Keynes famously observed, "when the facts change, I change my mind, what do you do,sir?".

Still, giving thanks for small mercies, at least your post is free of yet another asinine reference to Arisman.

Not sure what facts have changed?

Pay attention to Thaksin and you will see the lies change.

But the facts will not change.

On a side note do you really think Thaksin would return if given his full amnesty and all his money back.

One changed fact is Chalerm has decided not to follow through with his bill aimed at accomplishing this.

Do you as I do believe that there is a bullet in Thailand with Thaksin's name on it.

I believe Thaksin fears that also.

Witness his fear of speaking in Tachilek Myanmar right on the border with Mai Sai a red shirt stronghold.

Yes there's lead poisoning in the air

[LuckyLew]

Come on back to Thailand Thaksin .. I am sure one of your enemies will give you what you deserve

It is a pity that the majority of red shirts are too stupid to realize that they are being used as pawns in a game of chess

Then again ... attending protests and parades pays better than working in a factory

Reds are to blind to the fact that if TS came back ... they would soon be forgotten

Seems the reds already forgot he to dump them aside once when he said

" you helped my cross the river ... now I need others to get me to the top" or something like this

It did not pan out that time .. so now he is back urging the reds ...

[Mampara]

Nobody knows for sure why humans lie so much, but studies find that it's common, and that it's often tied to deep psychological factors."It's tied in with self-esteem, “as soon as people feel that their self-esteem is threatened, they immediately begin to lie at higher levels."

Fieldsman has conducted studies in which people lie frequently, with 60 percent lying at least once during a 10-minute conversation

And lying is not easy. One study concluded that lying takes 30 percent longer than telling the truth.

Certain conditions have to be in place for a statement to rise to the level of a lie."First, a person must make a statement and must believe that the statement is false. Second, the person making the statement must intend for the audience to believe that the statement is true.

[Nickymaster]

Sorry to say so but one has to be ignorant to believe Thaksin isn't it?

You can blame others for the mess Thailand is in today but if you are honest

to yourself you would agree that the guy is a born liar and manipulator.

It still puzzles me that there are well educated/informed people around who support him.

Or is it becoming more like a winning and loosing game?

Edited May 23, 2013 by Nickymaster

[waza]

Thaksin is the problem, if he wasn't pushing the agenda then the Yingluck coalition could get down to fulfilling their mandate of improving the lives of the poor, unifying Thais and bringing democracy to Thailand.

[Nickymaster]

Thaksin is the problem, if he wasn't pushing the agenda then the Yingluck coalition could get down to fulfilling their mandate of improving the lives of the poor, unifying Thais and bringing democracy to Thailand.

Yingluck is a real Thaksin. She is only there to fool the Thai people into believing The Shins really care for them.. She is as bad as him. Only difference is the smile.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Nickymaster

[impulse]

Ring me up if he arrives in Thailand.

That's the only benchmark worth reporting.

[lucjoker]

Why we continue speaking about an escaped criminal ,who lost his face years ago beeing kicked out of power by his own countrymen !

Sentenced for billion theft and then fled and lost his face .

They dont have to talk about him no more unless they arrest him and put him in jail .

The only supporters he has are paid for it,so ignore them .

Newspaper covers should be : why is this fugitive criminal not brought in ,sice they know where he is ?

[drdoom6996]

Ahh the comments. Unfortunately, it will be the same old tired responses.

Can't we move on to something else?

When you have an ugly red blemish with a festering pustule at the centre, do you accept advice to ignore it and hope it fades away?

Nope, I lance it. Get all the RED OUT on a tissue. AND FLUSH THE RED DOWN THE TOILET.

[SOTIRIOS]

He's too scared to come back.....!

Amnesty or not......he remains a coward

...if his funds are returned....he won't have to come back, anyway.......

[Emdog]

Here, as is true so many nations of the world, what is the use of having power if you don't abuse it?

[bigbamboo]

The newspaper makes his celebrity out to be the number one story around Thailand. The newspaper empowers him by calling attention to his "secret" messaging. Wow, these Thais, they know about secret messaging. They are something else. Empower him, aggrandize him, call attention to his messages and signals, make him the constant subject and focus of attention. Boy oh boy are they smart, these Thais.

He cannot be ignored because he IS still the most powerful man in Thailand even if he isn't actually here but hovering over the kingdom like some ghostly eminence grise.

[metisdead]

Nonsense posts and replies have been removed.

[khunken]

There will come a time when some real democrats within the broad red-shirt movement (& there are some) will realise that Thaksin is just using them & cut the ties to the former paymaster.

The country badly needs a political movement that truly represents the disadvantaged. Those who can recognise that rice, car, & other subsidies do not truly benefit poor people. For example, instead of a hugely expensive rice subsidy that benefits middlemen & large rice growing companies far more than subsistence farmers, spend money to improve rice growing yield (which is far too low here).

I think it will happen given time, but the Thaksin (& his family) factor needs to be squashed first.

[hellodolly]

Jayboy: "If you wish to be taken seriously you will will need to present your case more convincingly.I take it your general line is that the current Thai political conflict is in essence "all about Thaksin" and that the underlying political and social divisions are of minor or secondary significance"

The latter is being hijacked because of the former.... that is the most salient point. The poor, disenfranchised, landless, rural and general population of Thailand have real grievances about their situation and how they are treated by the elite, powerful and wealthy. Unfortunately they have been duped into believing that one group of the elite, powerful and wealthy will help their plight, the reality is that group is only interested in increasing its power and wealth over the poor, disenfranchised, landless, rural and general population of Thailand. When there are a group of politicians and government authorities who actually do stand up for the whole country and the whole people for the betterment of both and all there might be change for the better, but don't hold your breath, there is too much money and power swilling around to bring out any honest people, and even honest people are duped into believing some ridiculous fantasies, on all sides of politics.

We are in a process of change, changing from one elite power base to another, the real struggle at hand is between those power groups and the pawns in this are of course the poor, disenfranchised, landless, rural and general population. Good luck with that!

Well I do agree that the poor have been abused by the elites.

But I have only been in Thailand 7 years and seen only one group of elites duping the poor in the Government. A group led by Thaksin and I do not know the names of the other elites in the group. I know the names of a lot of wealthy pawns (Jatuporn Chalerm Yingluck) but I only know of one man pulling there strings. The same man who pulled them in the last 12 years with the exception of when Abhist was in power. Also when the Army was in power for 1 year.

Please name these other elites. When Abhist was in power his power base was so depended on many minor parties that there was no room for Elites to pull strings.

To the best of my knowledge most of the wealthy elites just make money they do not try to run a country.

[hellodolly]

Sorry to say so but one has to be ignorant to believe Thaksin isn't it?

You can blame others for the mess Thailand is in today but if you are honest

to yourself you would agree that the guy is a born liar and manipulator.

It still puzzles me that there are well educated/informed people around who support him.

Or is it becoming more like a winning and loosing game?

It still puzzles me that there are well educated/informed people around who support him.

It is not an accident that one of his nicknames is the paymaster.