D S I To File Murder Charges Against Abhisit, Suthep; Fabio Polenghi

[theajarn]

It's pathetic. How can a prosecution lawyer prove beyond doubt that the bullet was fired by a soldier. For Murder to stick as a charge they would also have to prove that the bullet was fired at the journalist by a soldier. ABout time the DSI started tackling real crime in this country instead of dreaming up more charges designed to ensure Abhisit does nothing but attend court cases during parliamentary down time.

The DSI does have an obligation to investigate as it is the civil authority that has that authority in Thailand to investigate allegations of this scope and nature. The filing of charges is part of the process peculiar to how investigations are carried out in Thailand.

The bigger issue is that the procedures and laws used to investigate allegations of this sort are not appropriate. It is a flawed structure combined with a flawed process. There is no way any reasonable person would accuse the former PM of "murdering" the Italian journalist. Unfortunately, the screwed Thai system gives us this result. The end result tarnishes the judicial process. What this event speaks to is that Thailand needs an overhaul of its applicable laws and investigative bodies.

You mean, like a new constitution ?

[jonclark]

It's pathetic. How can a prosecution lawyer prove beyond doubt that the bullet was fired by a soldier. For Murder to stick as a charge they would also have to prove that the bullet was fired at the journalist by a soldier. ABout time the DSI started tackling real crime in this country instead of dreaming up more charges designed to ensure Abhisit does nothing but attend court cases during parliamentary down time.

Everything (the gov't, police, the DSI, the "list is infinite") is pathetic.

AND, to me there is no doubt that it is totally politically motivated.... BUT then again TiT so that says it all

It doesn't really matter who is pathetic or not because it will be the courts who will look at the evidence presented and then make a judgement. Are posters claiming that the courts are biased? Because if they are, isn't that what Thaksin has been claiming all these years? If you beleive the courts are independent then lets just wait until all sides make their case to the judges and the court will make the ruling accordingly.

You can't have your cake and eat it. If you think Abhisit and Suthep will not get a fair trial then you have much more in common with Thaksin than you care to admit.

You bring up a valid point - does anyone think given the politically charged climate that a fair trial is possible?

[khunken]

It's pathetic. How can a prosecution lawyer prove beyond doubt that the bullet was fired by a soldier. For Murder to stick as a charge they would also have to prove that the bullet was fired at the journalist by a soldier. ABout time the DSI started tackling real crime in this country instead of dreaming up more charges designed to ensure Abhisit does nothing but attend court cases during parliamentary down time.

Everything (the gov't, police, the DSI, the "list is infinite") is pathetic.

AND, to me there is no doubt that it is totally politically motivated.... BUT then again TiT so that says it all

It doesn't really matter who is pathetic or not because it will be the courts who will look at the evidence presented and then make a judgement. Are posters claiming that the courts are biased? Because if they are, isn't that what Thaksin has been claiming all these years? If you beleive the courts are independent then lets just wait until all sides make their case to the judges and the court will make the ruling accordingly.

You can't have your cake and eat it. If you think Abhisit and Suthep will not get a fair trial then you have much more in common with Thaksin than you care to admit.

Don't twist what he said. PTP, BIB & DSI are totally corrupt & biased - no one on this thread has accused the courts of being biased.

This facade is wholly predictable & the DSI supposedly 'considering' more charges against Abhisit & Suthep is farcial. They will lay charges because they are under Chalerm's control who, in turn, is under Thaksin's control.

The hypocrisy of the red shirt supporters is breathtaking.

Out of one side of their mouth Abhisit was elected as PM under the army's control.

Out of the other side Abhisit & Suthep had total control of the army's activity in sorting out the mess in 2010.

[Thai at Heart]

It's pathetic. How can a prosecution lawyer prove beyond doubt that the bullet was fired by a soldier. For Murder to stick as a charge they would also have to prove that the bullet was fired at the journalist by a soldier. ABout time the DSI started tackling real crime in this country instead of dreaming up more charges designed to ensure Abhisit does nothing but attend court cases during parliamentary down time.

Everything (the gov't, police, the DSI, the "list is infinite") is pathetic.

AND, to me there is no doubt that it is totally politically motivated.... BUT then again TiT so that says it all

It doesn't really matter who is pathetic or not because it will be the courts who will look at the evidence presented and then make a judgement. Are posters claiming that the courts are biased? Because if they are, isn't that what Thaksin has been claiming all these years? If you beleive the courts are independent then lets just wait until all sides make their case to the judges and the court will make the ruling accordingly.

You can't have your cake and eat it. If you think Abhisit and Suthep will not get a fair trial then you have much more in common with Thaksin than you care to admit.

You bring up a valid point - does anyone think given the politically charged climate that a fair trial is possible?

I go with yes. Unless, they try to say that Abhisit or Suthep were responsible for not stopping the crackdown and are thus guilty, I really cannot see how this translates to a murder charge. It can translate to many things, but murder by proxy, suggests a contract killing, and it whilst the courts in Thialand might be a little screwy sometimes, and make some crazy judgements, I just can't see how any self respecting judge could judge it, guilty.

To be perfectly frank, I can't even believe that prosecutors think they can win. They just want to make Abhisit's life as unpleasant as possible right now.

[worgeordie]

The courts concluded that the Italian journalist was LIKELY,

killed by soldiers, and the DSI thinks they can get a conviction

on a likely happening,as both side had weapons its just as

likely the the other side killed him.

regards Worgeordie

[MichaelJohn]

Irrespective of the bullet, who fired it and all the ballistic evidence, is it not important to find who gave the order to open fire.

Despite the protestors being "disordely" there is, in my opinion, no justification for the military to open fire on the masses.

I can think of no country where the govt/military opens fire and kills 90+ people with a worldwide outcry.

I believe the buck stops somewhere and at the moment they're trying to find out exactly where?

Think of Bloody Sunday in 1920 and the discussion still goes on!

[bigbamboo]

It's pathetic. How can a prosecution lawyer prove beyond doubt that the bullet was fired by a soldier. For Murder to stick as a charge they would also have to prove that the bullet was fired at the journalist by a soldier. ABout time the DSI started tackling real crime in this country instead of dreaming up more charges designed to ensure Abhisit does nothing but attend court cases during parliamentary down time.

Everything (the gov't, police, the DSI, the "list is infinite") is pathetic.

AND, to me there is no doubt that it is totally politically motivated.... BUT then again TiT so that says it all

It doesn't really matter who is pathetic or not because it will be the courts who will look at the evidence presented and then make a judgement. Are posters claiming that the courts are biased? Because if they are, isn't that what Thaksin has been claiming all these years? If you beleive the courts are independent then lets just wait until all sides make their case to the judges and the court will make the ruling accordingly.

You can't have your cake and eat it. If you think Abhisit and Suthep will not get a fair trial then you have much more in common with Thaksin than you care to admit.

That's true. On the other hand I don't remember Abhisit or Suthep's lawyers having a record of delivering lunchboxes full of baht sandwiches to the court either?

[whybother]

Irrespective of the bullet, who fired it and all the ballistic evidence, is it not important to find who gave the order to open fire.

Despite the protestors being "disordely" there is, in my opinion, no justification for the military to open fire on the masses.

I can think of no country where the govt/military opens fire and kills 90+ people with a worldwide outcry.

I believe the buck stops somewhere and at the moment they're trying to find out exactly where?

Think of Bloody Sunday in 1920 and the discussion still goes on!

The army didn't open fire on the masses, just on the people outside the protest areas attacking them ... oh, except for April 10, when the army colonel was blown up by a grenade and gunmen from within the protesters were shooting at the army.

[PoodMaiDai]

You right regarding the issue. " bullet was fired by a soldier" But they can make tets and examinations, if they got the bullet, to see if it match the weapon soldiers used.

Exactly this. If they have the bullet that killed him, that can prove it came from a military used weapon. If they can find THE weapon (fat chance) they have a slam dunk.

I wouldn't be surprised if they pay some low ranking patsy to take the fall on this and claim he fired the bullet. Then the house of cards will fall down and the Reds win big time.

[hellodolly]

This whole thing is nothing but a joke being used by the PTP to cover there inept bungling.

They are so dammed stupid they don't realize people quit laughing a long time ago and are now feeling sorry for them.

[Thai at Heart]

Irrespective of the bullet, who fired it and all the ballistic evidence, is it not important to find who gave the order to open fire.

Despite the protestors being "disordely" there is, in my opinion, no justification for the military to open fire on the masses.

I can think of no country where the govt/military opens fire and kills 90+ people with a worldwide outcry.

I believe the buck stops somewhere and at the moment they're trying to find out exactly where?

Think of Bloody Sunday in 1920 and the discussion still goes on!

They weren't given orders to randomly open on the masses.

[Rich teacher]

Given that it was the voters representatives that elected Abhisit PM, then it wasn't against the explicit intention of the voters.

No, because the voter's representatives had been told in no uncertain terms by the Chief of the Army that there was only one choice for PM. They were not acting as representatives of the voters, they were ordered.

.

Reading to much red shirt propaganda again? Or do you have a recording of this "order"?

Good question WB. Of course the "order" only exists in the history as written by Rich Teacher and his red shirt friends.

Oh, and in Chumpol Silaparcha's history too, boxer, even though you are obviously more 'in the know' than he is.

[monkfish]

Qusetion is?>????

did Mr Abhisit and Suthep do anything to prevent futher civlians people being killed after the first, second, third, forth, fith, sixth death +++?

I think the answer is deffinetly Not ??? They upped the order and even more people dye.

Remember PM Somchai?

He is also facing charges for the deaths of some civilians during crowd control from the yellow shirt protests!

The big difference is that he reacted to prevent further deaths and casualties.

Abhisits campaign went on for weeks and deaths rose on a daily basis.

The biggest impact on the crowds wasn't the deaths but infact the seious injuries sustained by manyyyyy.

.

So guess the big BIG question is how do you defein murder "MURDER" and yup there are many degrees O.M. in the legal systems??

Did he intentionly? ? no no no please that can't be!! That would be more than murder more like genoside!

Such couldn't be possible from someone who went to school at Eaton!! UK!!!!

One intersting aspect is I believe X PM Abhisit and Suthep are 100% protected by law for what ever their actions cos of that State of Immergency.

Are there any legal experts here who can clarify this? Are theseall civillian cases against them or criminal??

But anyway please don't worry too much Abhisit and Suthep will do fine as long as they go to trial with the current upper house is in power.

Lets all hope it drags on a bit lol:))

Edited May 30, 2013 by monkfish

[hellodolly]

from the desk of amore

No, because the voter's representatives had been told in no uncertain terms by the Chief of the Army that there was only one choice for PM. They were not acting as representatives of the voters, they were ordered.

.
Reading to much red shirt propaganda again? Or do you have a recording of this "order"?

Oh the innocence of denial - are you really denying that the army had a hand in pushing Abhisit to power? Here's an amusing take on it from the Malaysian Star

If the politicians still need persuasion, arrange for the army chief to “advise” them in his home. But make sure they know the location of the general’s house. If not, a military escort will have to fetch them at a nearby petrol station; and those pesky reporters will find out about this super secret deal.

On the eve of the parliament vote, lock the parliamentarians whose loyalty you’ve secured in a safe hotel. And don’t forget to confiscate their handphones so they do not receive any calls topping up the price of loyalty.
Congratulations, your coalition has won a slender parliamentary majority (235 votes to 198). Now your squeaky clean and very handsome politician is a prime minister.
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/12/20/focus/2857185&sec=focus

Question loom over new Prime Minister's legitimacy

By Pravit Rojanaphruk
The Nation
Published on December 17, 2008

The problem began on December 6, when Army Chief Gen Anuphong Paochinda invited key politicians to offer them "advice" on what the new coalition should look like. Newin Chidchob, a former Thaksin aide who over the past few months was disenfranchised by his multi-billionaire boss, decided to exploit the situation. The Democrats and the military jumped in as well.

No wonder it is believed that on Monday, a "silent coup" was staged by the military, with backing from Abhisit, Newin, the self-styled People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) and their supporters.

This would not have been possible if the PAD had not seized the two airports and if the Constitution Court had not dissolved three parties, including the People Power Party.

http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/17/politics/politics_30091207.php

Why in Thailand when you mention the army some people get so gullible they will believe any thing negative about the army. But when it comes to terrorists they will not believe any thing negative about them.

They definatly have to upgrade the education here in Thailand.

Thailand the hub of the gullible.

[Roadman]

It's pathetic. How can a prosecution lawyer prove beyond doubt that the bullet was fired by a soldier. For Murder to stick as a charge they would also have to prove that the bullet was fired at the journalist by a soldier. ABout time the DSI started tackling real crime in this country instead of dreaming up more charges designed to ensure Abhisit does nothing but attend court cases during parliamentary down time.

The DSI does have an obligation to investigate as it is the civil authority that has that authority in Thailand to investigate allegations of this scope and nature. The filing of charges is part of the process peculiar to how investigations are carried out in Thailand.

The bigger issue is that the procedures and laws used to investigate allegations of this sort are not appropriate. It is a flawed structure combined with a flawed process. There is no way any reasonable person would accuse the former PM of "murdering" the Italian journalist. Unfortunately, the screwed Thai system gives us this result. The end result tarnishes the judicial process. What this event speaks to is that Thailand needs an overhaul of its applicable laws and investigative bodies.

Its not only the procedures relating to the judiciary that needs overhauled...its the whole Thai governance, judiciary and law that is flawed and needs overhauled. The problem is even outside of the current bunch of Thaksin mafia who will corrupt the system even more, the rest apart from the odd honest person are also corrupt to the core and in it for them.

When two thirds of your polled population accept corruption, and with those in power validating their right to be corrupt and above the law by the winning of elections then their will never be any ability to stop the train wreck.

[monkfish]

It's pathetic. How can a prosecution lawyer prove beyond doubt that the bullet was fired by a soldier. For Murder to stick as a charge they would also have to prove that the bullet was fired at the journalist by a soldier. ABout time the DSI started tackling real crime in this country instead of dreaming up more charges designed to ensure Abhisit does nothing but attend court cases during parliamentary down time.

The DSI does have an obligation to investigate as it is the civil authority that has that authority in Thailand to investigate allegations of this scope and nature. The filing of charges is part of the process peculiar to how investigations are carried out in Thailand.

The bigger issue is that the procedures and laws used to investigate allegations of this sort are not appropriate. It is a flawed structure combined with a flawed process. There is no way any reasonable person would accuse the former PM of "murdering" the Italian journalist. Unfortunately, the screwed Thai system gives us this result. The end result tarnishes the judicial process. What this event speaks to is that Thailand needs an overhaul of its applicable laws and investigative bodies.

Its not only the procedures relating to the judiciary that needs overhauled...its the whole Thai governance, judiciary and law that is flawed and needs overhauled. The problem is even outside of the current bunch of Thaksin mafia who will corrupt the system even more, the rest apart from the odd honest person are also corrupt to the core and in it for them.

When two thirds of your polled population accept corruption, and with those in power validating their right to be corrupt and above the law by the winning of elections then their will never be any ability to stop the train wreck.

I am not convinced that Thailand is more corrupt than the west!

Anyway that's totally off topic and there are many other Thai bashing threads here to discuss that.

[osiboy]

It's pathetic. How can a prosecution lawyer prove beyond doubt that the bullet was fired by a soldier. For Murder to stick as a charge they would also have to prove that the bullet was fired at the journalist by a soldier. ABout time the DSI started tackling real crime in this country instead of dreaming up more charges designed to ensure Abhisit does nothing but attend court cases during parliamentary down time.

The DSI does have an obligation to investigate as it is the civil authority that has that authority in Thailand to investigate allegations of this scope and nature. The filing of charges is part of the process peculiar to how investigations are carried out in Thailand.

The bigger issue is that the procedures and laws used to investigate allegations of this sort are not appropriate. It is a flawed structure combined with a flawed process. There is no way any reasonable person would accuse the former PM of "murdering" the Italian journalist. Unfortunately, the screwed Thai system gives us this result. The end result tarnishes the judicial process. What this event speaks to is that Thailand needs an overhaul of its applicable laws and investigative bodies.

Its not only the procedures relating to the judiciary that needs overhauled...its the whole Thai governance, judiciary and law that is flawed and needs overhauled. The problem is even outside of the current bunch of Thaksin mafia who will corrupt the system even more, the rest apart from the odd honest person are also corrupt to the core and in it for them.

When two thirds of your polled population accept corruption, and with those in power validating their right to be corrupt and above the law by the winning of elections then their will never be any ability to stop the train wreck.

I am not convinced that Thailand is more corrupt than the west!

Anyway that's totally off topic and there are many other Thai bashing threads here to discuss that.

it happens in the west , sure , but its not a culture thing , and i like to think that if caught it is dealt with , like the driving offence thingy with that guy and his wife {hune?} anyway ,....... no way , it happens , but its for the elite , not like thailand where you pay to be a policeman <deleted> !!,............... take hillsboro for example , finally the truth came out , that would never happen in LOS

Edited May 30, 2013 by osiboy

[whybother]

Qusetion is?>????

did Mr Abhisit and Suthep do anything to prevent futher civlians people being killed after the first, second, third, forth, fith, sixth death +++?

I think the answer is deffinetly Not ??? They upped the order and even more people dye.

Remember PM Somchai?

He is also facing charges for the deaths of some civilians during crowd control from the yellow shirt protests!

The big difference is that he reacted to prevent further deaths and casualties.

Abhisits campaign went on for weeks and deaths rose on a daily basis.

The biggest impact on the crowds wasn't the deaths but infact the seious injuries sustained by manyyyyy.

.

So guess the big BIG question is how do you defein murder "MURDER" and yup there are many degrees O.M. in the legal systems??

Did he intentionly? ? no no no please that can't be!! That would be more than murder more like genoside!

Such couldn't be possible from someone who went to school at Eaton!! UK!!!!

One intersting aspect is I believe X PM Abhisit and Suthep are 100% protected by law for what ever their actions cos of that State of Immergency.

Are there any legal experts here who can clarify this? Are theseall civillian cases against them or criminal??

But anyway please don't worry too much Abhisit and Suthep will do fine as long as they go to trial with the current upper house is in power.

Lets all hope it drags on a bit lol:))

Actually, it was the red shirts that upped things every step of the way.

They started out with "bring a bottle and we'll fill it with petrol" before the protests even started.

After the government didn't step down after the first couple of days of the protests, the spread tainted blood on parliament and Abhisit's house.

Then they took their protests mobile which caused huge traffic problems.

Then they confronted soldiers where they were stationed well away from the protest areas.

Then they threatened to storm the barracks.

Then they turned down election offers.

Then they took over the Ratchaprasong intersection.

Then they stormed parliament, and Thaicom, attacking the army with molotov cocktails.

Then when the government decided to disperse the protesters, the protesters brought out their armed militia.

Then the protesters built up petrol soaked barricades around the Ratchaprasong protest areas.

Then the protesters still went out of the barricaded area to attack army positions.

Then the protesters stormed a hospital.

Now, I'm just wondering where the government upped anything.

[amore]

from the desk of amore

Why in Thailand when you mention the army some people get so gullible they will believe any thing negative about the army. But when it comes to terrorists they will not believe any thing negative about them.

They definatly have to upgrade the education here in Thailand.

Thailand the hub of the gullible.

"Why in Thailand when you mention the army some people get so gullible they will believe any thing negative about the army."

Why, Dolly, Why? Because they have previous, Dolly, lot's of it, that's why.

[amore]

Qusetion is?>????

did Mr Abhisit and Suthep do anything to prevent futher civlians people being killed after the first, second, third, forth, fith, sixth death +++?

I think the answer is deffinetly Not ??? They upped the order and even more people dye.

Remember PM Somchai?

He is also facing charges for the deaths of some civilians during crowd control from the yellow shirt protests!

The big difference is that he reacted to prevent further deaths and casualties.

Abhisits campaign went on for weeks and deaths rose on a daily basis.

The biggest impact on the crowds wasn't the deaths but infact the seious injuries sustained by manyyyyy.

.

So guess the big BIG question is how do you defein murder "MURDER" and yup there are many degrees O.M. in the legal systems??

Did he intentionly? ? no no no please that can't be!! That would be more than murder more like genoside!

Such couldn't be possible from someone who went to school at Eaton!! UK!!!!

One intersting aspect is I believe X PM Abhisit and Suthep are 100% protected by law for what ever their actions cos of that State of Immergency.

Are there any legal experts here who can clarify this? Are theseall civillian cases against them or criminal??

But anyway please don't worry too much Abhisit and Suthep will do fine as long as they go to trial with the current upper house is in power.

Lets all hope it drags on a bit lol:))

Actually, it was the red shirts that upped things every step of the way.

They started out with "bring a bottle and we'll fill it with petrol" before the protests even started.

After the government didn't step down after the first couple of days of the protests, the spread tainted blood on parliament and Abhisit's house.

Then they took their protests mobile which caused huge traffic problems.

Then they confronted soldiers where they were stationed well away from the protest areas.

Then they threatened to storm the barracks.

Then they turned down election offers.

Then they took over the Ratchaprasong intersection.

Then they stormed parliament, and Thaicom, attacking the army with molotov cocktails.

Then when the government decided to disperse the protesters, the protesters brought out their armed militia.

Then the protesters built up petrol soaked barricades around the Ratchaprasong protest areas.

Then the protesters still went out of the barricaded area to attack army positions.

Then the protesters stormed a hospital.

Now, I'm just wondering where the government upped anything.

When they changed the ROE?