the gentleman Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Not content with only ruining MediCare, the Economy, and the Environment; Bu$hCo is now destroying our military. By Mick Youther The military forces of the United States are in trouble, and it’s not just because they are being used as pawns in Bu$hCo’s game of world domination. It’s because they are being “privatized” right out of existence. We need to ask, why is this happening, and is this is a good idea. You don’t have to investigate the push for privatization very far before you run across a couple of familiar names—Dick Cheney and Halliburton. • “In 1992, the Pentagon, under [then Secretary of Defense] Cheney, commissioned the Halliburton subsidiary Brown & Root to do a classified study on whether it was a good idea to have private contractors do more of the military's work. Of course, they said it's a terrific idea, and over the next eight years, Kellogg, Brown & Root and another company got 2,700 contracts worth billions of dollars.”--Charles Lewis, executive director of the Center For Public Integrity, on 60 Minutes, 9/21/03 • “Whenever US troops venture abroad, Brown and Root builds the barracks, cooks the food, mops the floors, transports the goods and maintains the water systems before and after the soldiers arrive.”-- People's Weekly World Newspaper, 12/14/02 • “The Pentagon will ‘pursue additional opportunities to outsource and privatise’, the US defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, pledged last year and military analysts expect him to try to cut a further 200,000 jobs in the armed forces.”-- The Guardian, 12/10/03 Proponents of privatization claim that military contractors can do these jobs faster, better, and cheaper than the military. This is not necessarily true. • “Seabees typically can perform the work at about half the cost of contractors, because labor costs are already sunk and paid for.”-- Daryl Smith, a Seabees spokesman, quoted in the New York Times, 7/13/02 • “The more money [brown and Root] spend, the more profitable the contract is. Nobody in their right mind would enter into a contract that basically says 'Come up with creative ways to spend my money and the more you spend the happier I'll be.’”-- Professor Steve Schooner, contract expert, George Washington University, quoted by MotherJones.com, 5/23/02 • “[A General Accounting Office] 1997 report concluded that the Army allowed KBR to fly in plywood from the United States, at a cost of $85.98 a sheet, because it did not have time to procure it in Europe, where sheets cost $14.06.”-- New York Times, 7/13/02 • “U.S. troops [are] being exposed to filthy mess halls and rotten food, according to official Pentagon inspection reports…For this ‘service,’ Halliburton charges $28 for each meal that it serves to over 100,000 troops each day.”-- Executive Intelligence Review, 12/26/03 • “KBR is charging Iraq US$180,000 for each school they renovate. They then give the project to Iraqi sub-contractors and pay them just US$20,000 to do the job. So KBR nets US$160,000 just like that. KBR is getting everything. You know, of course, they are connected to the higher-ups in Washington. So what do you want me to think?”-- Fares Mohamad, frustrated Iraqi citizen, quoted in a newswire report, Portland Independent Media Center, 12/7/03 • “The amount of money [Halliburton has earned] is quite staggering, far more than we were originally led to believe….and it concerns me because often the privatization of government services ends up costing the taxpayers more rather than less."-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA), CBS News, 8/28/03 • “The reconstruction of Iraq has emerged as a vast protectionist racket, a neo-con New Deal that transfers limitless public funds - in contracts, loans and insurance - to private firms, and even gets rid of the foreign competition to boot, under the guise of ‘national security’.”-- Naomi Klein, The Guardian, 1/17/04 • “[Halliburton] is a company which has more experience with insider dealing and corruption than with efficiency. During the Second World War, there was a Senate committee on war profiteering. Personally I think we should set it up again and investigate Brown & Root."-- Bill Hartung, World Policy Institute, quoted in CorpWatch, 5/2/02 Privatization is not good for the military. It is just another racket run by Dick Cheney and friends to funnel taxpayer money into their pockets, while leaving the military dependent on workers who may not be there when the going gets tough. • “The Department of Defense is gambling future military victory on contractors' performing operational functions in the battlefield.”-- Col. Steven J. Zamparelli, quoted in the New York Times, 10/13/02 • “If this grand experiment undertaken by our national leadership fails during wartime, the results will be unthinkable.”-- Lt. Col. Lourdes A. Castillo, Air Force logistics expert, quoted in the New York Times, 10/13/02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gentleman Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 A reply, I found with this article: Written by an American! It's bad enough when Halliburton gets to overcharge us on EVERYTHING, but when their private employees are provided (by our Govt) Humvees with extra armor , while our troope are forced to escort them in their 'tin-can' Humvees, then it's time for us to hold our leaders accountable. Boy, talk about a complete lack of support for our troops who are so valiently fighting this meaningless, useless war with equipment that would not suffice in a paint-gun battle !!! Bush should be hung upside down (ala Mussolini) at the Rose Garden, and beaten to smitherenes by all our returning soldiers (IF they make it back!) !!!! And Chaney can say with a straight face that he is not involved AT ALL in contract decisions with Halliburton ??? Chaney and Bush need to be buried six-feet-under .... in a plywood box ..... at $85.98/sheet ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgie-Porgie Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Wow. This is eye opening; Not. Snooze Snooze. Sinking like quicksand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidm Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Mother Jones, Democrat Congressmen and the Grauniad are not exactly impartial sources of news. All you have achieved is a demonstration that you know where to dredge left wing anti-Bush web-sites for opinions and misquotes dressed up as facts. I could probably scour a few right wing sites to come up with articles telling us what a great job Bush is doing. The end result would be a hundred useless posts on this forum which prove nothing except we should each get a life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgie-Porgie Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Excuse me davidm, but "the gentleman" can't read very well and needs an interpreter, and I happen to be fluent in passa Outback: davidm say you one big Dummy! Cut and paste. Cut and paste. Cut and paste. Waste our time. You go back school! You one big Dummy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gentleman Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 It seems David has shown where his loyalty is anyway. It is always leftist anti Bushism to you followers - maybe it could be a few more facts. I would love you to post some positive information on George Bush, then Georgie wont have to do any searching and he can cut and paste your info. I will keep posting info/quotes on Halliburton's Iraq and you guys can keep coming up with the same "tactical reponses". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgie-Porgie Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Dummy Many poster say same davidm. Many time. Say cut and paste opinion prove nothing. Say you big Dummy. Boring Dummy. Stupid Dummy. You no listen people who have brain. By, By Dummy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gentleman Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 same posts Georgie, at least it is good to see that you have learned to cut and paste - sit on the sideline and we will come up with the posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgie-Porgie Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Stupid. Waste of time. By, By Dummy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adjan jb Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I don't understand why so many Americans seem unable to question their administration. I don't understand why so many of you seem unable of derision. In my country, loyalty to the prez, the flag are unthinkable, even in times of war. It's unthinkable for any French not to challenge any of the goverment's decision or stance. Dissent and disagreement are the norm. We tend to think that every time a f**king French politician opens his mouth, he is going to tell a lie. It seems that most of you have given up their free will and totally rely on one man. No matter what he does. No matter the harm he's currently doing to your great traditions. What has become of America ? What has happened for this once steady and strong country to sink into paranoia ? (this is not another anti-American post. What I have to say about my country is far much worse than anything I could ever say on yours) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adjan jb Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I don't understand why so many Americans seem unable to question their administration. I don't understand why so many of you seem unable of derision.In my country, loyalty to the prez, the flag are unthinkable, even in times of war. It's unthinkable for any French not to challenge any of the goverment's decision or stance. Dissent and disagreement are the norm. We tend to think that every time a f**king French politician opens his mouth, he is going to tell a lie. It seems that most of you have given up their free will and totally rely on one man. No matter what he does. No matter the harm he's currently doing to your great traditions. What has become of America ? What has happened for this once steady and strong country to sink into paranoia ? (this is not another anti-American post. What I have to say about my country is far much worse than anything I could ever say on yours) How come that any American who dares to question his/her prez (a basic citizen's right) is labelled a traitor ? Any American point of view is welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gentleman Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 Yes Adjan you are right, My Prime Minister is an idiot and I think he shouldnt be there. I think you will find with the American side, it comes down to not having a worldy knowledge of other countries and cultures - you see 90% of Americans do not have a passport, dont travel outside thier country (check it on US web pages) and rely on censored media coverage, to make all thier opinions - based on lies. It is very hard to make an informed judgement on other parts of the world, if you havent been there - Georgie is a perfect example, never been to Iraq or seen any military conflict, but is quite happy to give his uninformed view - that is a fact! The USA is run by the Military and has been since it gained its independance, that started with not wanting to pay taxes to the British Empire - then the revolt and then independance. The idiot in the seat at the time is a puppet and is ruled by the military might and is just a CEO, taking care of the kick backs and feathering his own nest. I think the ignorance of the US people will be there downfall in the long term as the whole country is based on cloak and dagger/smoke and mirrors politics, with the rest of the world is watching in front row seats, but the Americans get censored news, with them not knowing what really is going on! Georgie Porgy is a perfect example of ignorance, he lives in a country, where he doesnt speak the language, although he says he has been here for years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgie-Porgie Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 adjan, I am working on an answer to your original post on this subject, but it takes a lot longer to answer questions like that, than it does to prove conclusively that the "gentleman" is a complete imbecile. I will answer both of your posts, when I get the time, but be aware, that what you are claiming here is utter and total bullsh1t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adjan jb Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 We tend to think that every time a f**king French politician opens his mouth, he is going to tell a lie. I've forgotten to say that until now they have never disappointed us ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgie-Porgie Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Actually, I just realized that I had almost finished answering the adjan's original post, but I erased it by mistake! Jeepz or Membrane, if you are around, why don't one of you guys answer it? You guys can do a much better job than I can, anyway. I'll do the low level jobs, dealing with logic-less retards like Butterfly and the "gentleman". Easy, just like sweeping out the trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gentleman Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 yes rally the boys Georgie, we know you couldnt do it by yourself - piss weak ignorant yank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgie-Porgie Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Georgie is a perfect example, never been to Iraq or seen any military conflict, but is quite happy to give his uninformed view - that is a fact!Georgie Porgy is a perfect example of ignorance, he lives in a country, where he doesnt speak the language, although he says he has been here for years! Here are two more brazen lies by the so-called gentleman. There is no way for him to know about either of these things and both are incorrect. It is bad enough that he is too stupid to argue logically about his beliefs, but now he has resorted to telling blatant lies on top of just wasting space with his silly posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gentleman Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 well Georgie, I am only quoting what you posted on this actual forum - please re read your own posts - idiot! So when did you go to Iraq, Georgie? Do you speak Thai now? What military conflict were you involved in? - and I dont mean spooning out the spuds on a logistics boat, far way from the front line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgie-Porgie Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 More lies you laughable little ignoramus? See my latest post Dummy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgie-Porgie Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 well Georgie, I am only quoting what you posted on this actual forum - please re read your own posts - idiot! Just more proof that you don't know how to read, Dummy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidm Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Just so no one mistakes me for an American, I'm British. Never even been to the States. I don't blindly support Bush or anyone else from any country. I just happen to believe the Americans were right to invade Afghanistan and Iraq, although I've been disappointed with their execution of the end game. Gentleman, if you want to read posts praising Bush & co, read some of Mark Steyn's work. I see no point in posting it on this forum because it would clog up a site devoted to original writing (regardless of the quality) by its members. You will also find articles endorsing the Iraq war in the Economist, a publication which strives manfully to be fair to all parties and present reasoned, balanced arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Mother Jones, Democrat Congressmen and the Grauniad are not exactly impartial sources of news. All you have achieved is a demonstration that you know where to dredge left wing anti-Bush web-sites for opinions and misquotes dressed up as facts. I could probably scour a few right wing sites to come up with articles telling us what a great job Bush is doing.The end result would be a hundred useless posts on this forum which prove nothing except we should each get a life. Look girls, I know it is quite beyond belief, but let me tell you a few facts. As a matter of course, governments lie about the ability of the "fighting man" to defend his personal space. They normally provide second grade equipment. Dubya is best mates with the halibut maggotry, and they have to cover their dysfunctional corporate <deleted> with insurance. Dubya doesn't have that problem. He sends boys to die with the same alacrity that he dodged the draft. Now he is too old, so he gets to say "poor mom" or whatever seppo presidents say to grieving women. Bush was sold the war by Cheney, since his half brained organisation was not able to keep up. The war has to keep halibut and Cheney in the style to which they have become accustomed. The fact that Dubya has not acknowledged one single death should say something to anyone who says Iraq is a "good" war. It is a raid so halibut stays afloat. If you can't see something that obvious there is little hope for you as a reader of signs. The scary bit is, I don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basher Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Bush was sold the war by Cheney, since his half brained organisation was not able to keep up.The war has to keep halibut and Cheney in the style to which they have become accustomed. The fact that Dubya has not acknowledged one single death should say something to anyone who says Iraq is a "good" war. It is a raid so halibut stays afloat. If you can't see something that obvious there is little hope for you as a reader of signs. The scary bit is, I don't care. ######, I think you may find that Halibut was not really in to bad shape mate, the rot set in when Halibut bought KBR, now there really is a case of rotten eggs with their Asbestos problem. Though Halibut was run by the evil Cheney for 5 years, and he is still receiving his 40 mill pay off in yearly payments so as yo avoid tax on it, it is primarily an oilfield service company, and a bloody good one. It is KBR that is the stinker. Hallibut is a victim of ownership of a rotten company and its 40,000 employees are suffering a reign of slander from the press in an attempt to remove Bushy and the evil Cheney from power. KBR is the nigger in the woodpile mate, sadly owned by the big H, but neverthe less it's own company. Just add my 10 penneth, by the way I have worked for the big H, great company to work for... Basher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidm Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Look girls, I know it is quite beyond belief, but let me tell you a few facts.It went downhill from here quite rapidly because most of what followed what not fact but opinion. And opinion which is easily rebutted. Actually, that's not quite true. Following one of your posts is difficult at the best of times and to be brutally honest, it's a language problem: you can't write clear, lucid English for more than two consecutive sentences. Basher has rebutted the Haliburton angle. As for Dubya has not acknowledged one single death, that simply isn't true. He has mentioned these deaths in speeches. Not much comfort to the grieving, but that's not my point.If you can't see something that obvious there is little hope for you as a reader of signs. Whether you agree with the principles behind the war or not, the reasons it started are as follows:- 1. Iraq was the next domino in the war against terrorism. 2. The war was part of a broad vision on the part of Bush and his advisers to implement permanent change in the Middle east through the introduction of democracy and western style economic governance. 3. Bush jnr was out for revenge against a man who had organised an assassination attempt against his father. 4. The US administration wanted to ensure a major oil exporter was controlled by a more pro-west regime. I don't dispute Haliburton benefitted from its close contacts with Bush and Cheney, but this is a classic example of a company exploiting a war for its own gain. That's not even close to what you are suggesting. That kind of "vision" would be scary on someone of influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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