What Is A Ladyboy?

[Guest endure]

What Is A Ladyboy?...... Is that not quite self explanetory.....!!!!!

OP; "Am I Gay???"

redrus; "most chuffin definiately you are"

It's alwys nice to get the breeder's perspective on our little dilemmas

[thankuverybig]

anyway,im off to discuss rugby,football hooligans,& read the odd dirty joke.

enjoy.

[redrus]

What Is A Ladyboy?...... Is that not quite self explanetory.....!!!!!

OP; "Am I Gay???"

redrus; "most chuffin definiately you are"

It's alwys nice to get the breeder's perspective on our little dilemmas

Wow wow wow sweet child o mine, sweet baby Jesus and the orphans, in the words of a once great man, "I say what I see". Don't you even dare feed me with that "breeders" BS.

In the words of another great man, "you don't even know me", "so why you judging my life".

redrus

[Guest endure]

What Is A Ladyboy?...... Is that not quite self explanetory.....!!!!!

OP; "Am I Gay???"

redrus; "most chuffin definiately you are"

It's alwys nice to get the breeder's perspective on our little dilemmas

Wow wow wow sweet child o mine, sweet baby Jesus and the orphans, in the words of a once great man, "I say what I see". Don't you even dare feed me with that "breeders" BS.

In the words of another great man, "you don't even know me", "so why you judging my life".

I'm not judging your life, I'm judging the only thing I can on TV - your words.

[DUMPSTER]

Just asking a question. You appear, to me anyway, critical of this thread and those who are voicing their points of view.

I think we all know interpretation can be difficult on a forum so maybe i'm wide of the mark.

No offence meant.

And you appear, to me anyway, to take personal umbrage when anyone posts an opinion that's different to yours to the extent that you seem to need to have a little pop at them. No offense meant.

Really?

I've just edited myself. No point to have a mindless arguement with you. You will see what you want to see, as I do.

If you cant except an appology then mai bpen rai isn't really working for you, is it.

[Guest endure]

Just asking a question. You appear, to me anyway, critical of this thread and those who are voicing their points of view.

I think we all know interpretation can be difficult on a forum so maybe i'm wide of the mark.

No offence meant.

And you appear, to me anyway, to take personal umbrage when anyone posts an opinion that's different to yours to the extent that you seem to need to have a little pop at them. No offense meant.

Really?

I've just edited myself. No point to have a mindless arguement with you. You will see what you want to see, as I do.

If you cant except an appology then mai bpen rai isn't really working for you, is it.

Yes, really.

I don't see why you need to apologise for your views. I've no intention of apologising for mine.

Mai bpen rai works well for me. It allows me to separate the important from the trivial.

[farang prince]

Bravo farang prince, well said and your proximity adds credence.

Straights in this column understandably may not be as close to effeminate gays as gays are so understandably can be confused by men who act like women and men who want to be women.

Having been married for a decade to a woman and having a child, I have had the experience of transitioning from women to men as primary sexual objects. In doing so, I found that my initial experiences (or preferences) were with effeminate men, my first later became a woman through surgery.

I have migrated somewhat more toward more masculine men as attractive sexual objects but yet never gotten to the point where the very butch ones attract. Thus a young man who has effeminate features but doesn't act effeminate is sexually attractive to me.

Men who act like women don't bother me at all as there are many women in my life who I adore. However, I am not sexually attracted to anyone effeminate either in looks or acts.

We only need go back two hundred years in France to see true heterosexuals dressing and acting like, what we today, think of as effeminate or ladylike. Definitely cultural.

Most gay men who are attracted to the butch gay man or heterosexual man know that if they act effeminate, they will attract this type of man more easily.

In Thailand, without the christian/judean imprint, straight men have little difficulty having opportunistic sex with men, but my Thai advises that true "men" always take the "top" or penetrator role with another man and if the gay man wants this type of male, ie. a straight man for sex, acting effeminate is a major advantage.

From my own experience as outlined above and from what I have observed, some gay men will affect effeminacy as a means of obtaining their sexual objective, that is to couple with a straight man or a transitioning gay one.

I put it all on a gradient scale, whether its right to left or top to bottom, or butch straight to flaming queen, we men can all find ourselves somewhere on the male scale. Mentally, however, we are all men and want to stay that way. Those who are or want to be women should find there place on the female gradient.

Thank you PTE for your kind comments. The issue of Thai ladyboys is complex and not easily subjected to broad blanket characterizations. I was attempting in my post to share with readers my experiences with being with a ladyboy. I noticed that Dumpster, since I did not agree with him, dismissed my comments as being "biased" and the result of "being in love." Well, Dumpster has neither the age, the experience, nor the wisdom, to try to analyze my comments or the motivations behind them. My ladyboy thinks Dumpster is a "balloon" -- full of hot air and having a thin skin.

[Ijustwannateach]

Guys - Don't.... feed.... the.... trolls....

I agree with most of the legitimate posters on this thread, including FP who is the only self-declared partner of a ladyboy, that *most* ladyboys I have anecdotally known or heard of generally prefer straight men, especially the more such ladyboys incline towards surgical alterations (and since no one here has any kind of academic survey of ladyboys to pull out of his pants, I think we can stop telling each other that "your argument has no 'proof'" because none of us do, and we have to judge based on majority experience). Furthermore, most self-declared gay men here have stated what I have come to believe is the majority view for gay men: we're not interested in ladyboys, especially the more they incline towards surgical alterations.

It seems to make little sense, moreover, to label those who do like the full-blown ladyboys (breasts with or without other ops) as "gay." More likely they are another category unto themselves, which is why this thread nominally in the gay forum is receiving more views and more input from posters which otherwise never frequent the gay forum at all.

"Steven"

[DUMPSTER]

I noticed that Dumpster, since I did not agree with him, dismissed my comments as being "biased" and the result of "being in love." Well, Dumpster has neither the age, the experience, nor the wisdom, to try to analyze my comments or the motivations behind them. My ladyboy thinks Dumpster is a "balloon" -- full of hot air and having a thin skin.

Well, if you want to misquote me then that's your perogative.

I guess I could throw a few insults back but again i'll refrain. It would appear i'm more lady like than your fella.

You are obviously very sensitive and protective towards anything said about ladyboys which only confirms my point that you COULD well be biased with your thoughts and feelings towards them.

I will just say my point of view to clarify. I pretty much agreed with what one female poster wrote but will just say that it is my belief that all ladyboys must have some kind of psychological problem of one kind or another. I am not saying that they are all confused about wanting to become women, far from it, but living in the body of a man when you want to be a woman, must cause problems. That's not to say they cannot overcome them and move on with their lives.

As for having wisdom, I never knew there was an age and experience test you had to pass. And are you actually saying all old people are wise?

I believe that dementia is a common illness among older folk as much as psychological problems are in ladyboys. So it must be a right scream in your household.

Another thing I believe is that, if someone pushes your buttons enough for you to have a rant at them, then deep down there is an issue somewhere buried. Only 2 posters do that to me on here, so a big thanks to the troll hating teacher and the enduring Thai lover for giving me an insight into my own issues.

Edited June 26, 2006 by DUMPSTER

[thankuverybig]

it seems like people are getting a little defensive about this issue.im not sure anyone has connected gays with lady men.i know i havent as ive already stated that i dont think they get the op for sexual reasons.

anyway im just a dosser,with an interest in psychology,but ive found this great website,by a pschiartrist from san fransisco,raymond lloyd richmond.

this is what he had to say about the subject;

quote;

"so why then would anyone develop a desire to change reproductive reality?well even if you understand the reality of the soul,the basic facts of life-reproduction & death-are still painful realities.but as plain realities,they dont mean anything;they just are.

a fantasy of changing ones personal meaning by changing ones gender derives from a misguided belief that sexuality contains some mysterious,great secret that will release you from the hard facts of life,death & social emptiness.so,at the core,the fantasy,in its very impossibility,represents an unconscious attempt to escape death"end quote.

more at: www.guidetopsychology.com

i personally think that they just like wearing dresses,flicking their hair & saying kha a lot.

Edited June 27, 2006 by thankuverybig

[MarkBKK]

It really is quite amazing. Every single time ... the same comments, the same trolls, the same bigotry, the same feigned and real ignorance, the same closet prurience, the same flames, the same insults, the same pigeon-holing, labelling, filing, stamping, indexing, briefing, debriefing and numbering. It seems like every BBS and web forum where it can be discussed, it has been. From the WELL and CIX to BKKTonite and ThaiVisa. And it's always the same! It almost seems as if it's the same people having the same arguments/discussions over and over and over again. Nothing ever changes.

It's all so boring ...

[Ijustwannateach]

heh heh heh.... do they all have the same world-weary comments as yours, MarkBKK, as well as my witty rejoinders?

[MarkBKK]

heh heh heh.... do they all have the same world-weary comments as yours, MarkBKK, as well as my witty rejoinders?

Pretty much ... eventually.

What usually happens next is someone suggests a separate Ladyboy, New-half or TV, TG, TS conf, thread or forum (oh, they already have), which then, thankfully, dies.

[jdinasia]

I guess I have missed out on years of ladyboy threads .....

Really ... if it is all so boring then why read it? If people that disagree with you fit into YOUR pigeon-holes ... why bother replying? However ... if you have an opinion or real explerience then please! join in!

[Guest endure]

It really is quite amazing. Every single time ... the same comments, the same trolls, the same bigotry, the same feigned and real ignorance, the same closet prurience, the same flames, the same insults, the same pigeon-holing, labelling, filing, stamping, indexing, briefing, debriefing and numbering. It seems like every BBS and web forum where it can be discussed, it has been. From the WELL and CIX to BKKTonite and ThaiVisa. And it's always the same! It almost seems as if it's the same people having the same arguments/discussions over and over and over again. Nothing ever changes.

It's all so boring ...

As is the fact that ladyboy threads are always posted in gay forums...

[Guest endure]

Another thing I believe is that, if someone pushes your buttons enough for you to have a rant at them, then deep down there is an issue somewhere buried. Only 2 posters do that to me on here, so a big thanks to the troll hating teacher and the enduring Thai lover for giving me an insight into my own issues.

I'm not sure if that's a compliment or a kick in the slats...

[MarkBKK]

I guess I have missed out on years of ladyboy threads .....

Really ... if it is all so boring then why read it? If people that disagree with you fit into YOUR pigeon-holes ... why bother replying? However ... if you have an opinion or real explerience then please! join in!

In order:

Yes, you have (or not). Depends which way you look at it I suppose.

It's less boring than other things at times (oh the ennui).

I don't mind disagreement. Can't stand blind prejudice/pig-headed obstinacy/ignorance/intolerance.

I try not to pigeon-hole anyone. Some people make it hard though.

I have opinions (I gave one -- this is a tired subject) and experience in the field ... and the barn ... and round the back of the bikesheds ... snigger. There, that's brightened my morning already.

(Yes, I know it doesn't take much.)

[DUMPSTER]

Another thing I believe is that, if someone pushes your buttons enough for you to have a rant at them, then deep down there is an issue somewhere buried. Only 2 posters do that to me on here, so a big thanks to the troll hating teacher and the enduring Thai lover for giving me an insight into my own issues.

I'm not sure if that's a compliment or a kick in the slats...

I think it's neither really. Just a bit of honesty with myself that I need to do a bit more work on accepting myself and others. It just so happens that it has been yours and Stevens posts, over a period of time, that have made me realise this.

[kerryk]

I went into a popular late night disco (Spicy) here in Chiang Mai last night. The place is packed every night of the week. I noticed a sign on the front door that said no lady boys allowed. I assume the sign means that straight people and gay people don’t like lady boys. I don’t mean the people on this forum but the average straight and gay person in Chiang Mai. Or maybe it is some other reason I am not aware of. I found it unusual though because it is the first time I have seen a sign like this. Maybe it has been there a long time and I just have never noticed before. Spicy is not a Go Go bar just a regular disco.

[ProThaiExpat]

I asked my Thai about discos and any aversion to Ladyboys and he advises that many discos don't want Ladyboys, as straight tourists complain that when they take them home, they find them out to be men, when the tourist was looking for a woman to bed.

Years ago when in the Navy, one of my straight sailors needed counseling when he took a Ladyboy to bed and had to deal with the shock of it being a "he" rather than a "she".

While I am sure a straight coming on to a Ladyboy is a validation for the Ladyboy, common morality suggests it not go so far as the bedroom, in fact, in my view, it shouldn't go no further than the establishment door before the straight is advised of what he is getting.

By the way, for all its worth, Dumpster, "good on you, mate" for the change in attitude I have noticed in your posts recently.

[rainman]

I asked my Thai about discos and any aversion to Ladyboys and he advises that many discos don't want Ladyboys, as straight tourists complain that when they take them home, they find them out to be men, when the tourist was looking for a woman to bed.

speaking about that, i have a good friend who visits thailand several times per year. he took home a quite good looking girl one night and came by the bar i was with another few friends that evening before going home with her. everybody told him she was a man but he didn't believe it. he went home and about 40 minutes later he came back, in shock, and told us "i really thought she was a girl until she went into the shower and then i saw it, hers was bigger than mine!" true story, no joke.

my opinion on the subject (as a straight) is that surely more than 50% of ladyboys would look better as men than they do as women, but of course its their choice to make the change. i've seen maybe 2-3 ladyboys over the past few years however where i have to say they look better than most of the women i've seen in thailand and one in particular (a singer in a pub) i didn't believe she even used to be a man until she showed me her old ID card.

[MarkBKK]

i didn't believe she even used to be a man until she showed me her old ID card.

Why, did she have a new one that said she was a woman (he asked innocently)?

[MarkBKK]

i didn't believe she even used to be a man until she showed me her old ID card.

So assuming this was in Thailand where did she get her new ID card from?

[kat]

Very good question.

The beautiful ones that can really deceive have had surgery done on their faces as well.

[Guest endure]

The most stunning ladyboys I've ever seen were in Bugis Street in Singapore.

[farang prince]

Very good question.

The beautiful ones that can really deceive have had surgery done on their faces as well.

Kat, you know your ladyboys. Mine had her jawline extended to create a more exotic look.

[kat]

Yeah, I know. Like I said earlier, I had a very beautiful MTF friend who didn't tell me, so I had to figure it out. I learned a lot in the process.

[farang prince]

Yeah, I know. Like I said earlier, I had a very beautiful MTF friend who didn't tell me, so I had to figure it out. I learned a lot in the process.

Some ladyboys have gone to great lengths to hide their sex...even to the point of having their larynx shaved back to reduce that telltale bulge in their neck. Thank God my ladyboy didn't go to that extreme. I will say that most of the ladyboys that I know are very narcissistic and my lover is no different. But she was an entertainer for many years so it goes with the territory.

[jdinasia]

hmmm I am starting to think this thread should end up in the General sub-forum ... but I know if it did the trolls would rip it apart

[sexypurny]

well im reallly reallly interested in moving to thailand and turn into a buddhist. Edited July 5, 2006 by sexypurny