Govt must explain why it let World Expo plan founder: Thai editorial

[iancnx]

For all those posters above spreading nonsense that Expo's are loss making.

Expo 2005 Japan

The cost of the Expo has been estimated at 340 billion yen ($3.3 billion). However, the recorded 22,049,544 visitors greatly exceeded the target of 15,000,000 and the Expo made a profit of over 10 billion yen.

Expo 2010 China

Shanghai spent 11.964 billion yuan in operating cost to host the event, making it the most expensive World Expo ever, but the organizers still made an operating profit of more than 1 billion yuan (US$157 million) thanks to the record attendance. The total revenue was 13.014 billion yuan, including 7.36 billion yuan in admission fees and almost 4 billion yuan in sponsorship income.

Source Wikipedia.

So to recap the last 2 Expos made resounding profits. But the real profit is innovative education opportunities, enhanced infrastructure and transportation and global exposure, not to mention a huge influx of tourists

Edited June 14, 2013 by iancnx

[smutcakes]

I think the very fact that no one TVF had a bloody clue what the Expo is speaks volume of its use or not. I have had a brief search on the internet and i still cant quite understand what it is.

[Pi Sek]

Whatever this expo was, it would have done a lot of good for the city and province of Phra Nakhon Si Ayutthaya. After the flood response fiasco and now this, I don't imagine Peua Thai will be able to keep this province next time round.

[smutcakes]

Whatever this expo was, it would have done a lot of good for the city and province of Phra Nakhon Si Ayutthaya. After the flood response fiasco and now this, I don't imagine Peua Thai will be able to keep this province next time round.

For christ sake have you been to Ayutthaya and see how they look after there other tourism hotspots?!

[iancnx]

I think the very fact that no one TVF had a bloody clue what the Expo is speaks volume of its use or not. I have had a brief search on the internet and i still cant quite understand what it is.

Try these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expo_2010

http://www.expo2010.cn/expo/expoenglish/oe/es/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expo_2005

http://www.expo2005.or.jp/en/

[iancnx]

Whatever this expo was, it would have done a lot of good for the city and province of Phra Nakhon Si Ayutthaya. After the flood response fiasco and now this, I don't imagine Peua Thai will be able to keep this province next time round.

For christ sake have you been to Ayutthaya and see how they look after there other tourism hotspots?!

In 7 years ..... Think positive..... They might even let educated and experienced early retires contribute as volunteer consultants. Thailand needs to change, but nothing will happen unless some sparks of creativity or a vision is not realised. Once again my belief is this could have been led by an independent without any colours attached. And it could have taught many in this country the fundamentals of programme management in an international environment. Edited June 14, 2013 by iancnx

[Pi Sek]

Whatever this expo was, it would have done a lot of good for the city and province of Phra Nakhon Si Ayutthaya. After the flood response fiasco and now this, I don't imagine Peua Thai will be able to keep this province next time round.

For christ sake have you been to Ayutthaya and see how they look after there other tourism hotspots?!

Once or twice, yes. But what's that got to do with anything?

The inspectors were "favouring" the Thai bid and there was a good chance of something happening, which would have no-doubt benefitted quite a lot of locals through direct or indirect business, and the preparations would have needed a splash of paint to be applied to the town in advance...

My point is that a province that voted in PTP has been screwed by PTP... and it would have seen some of the cash cow if they had voted in the Democrats (which is why a lot of them decided to vote in PTP in the first place!). It's a feeling I get from quite a lot of people who voted PTP... but then, that's democracy in action.

In this case - once could be construed as unlucky, especially with a natural disaster and all, but twice in 2 years is a bit too unlucky, especially when there was seemingly no barrier to doing it and everyone winning. Maybe it was too much work for not enough kickbacks?

[OzMick]

I think the very fact that no one TVF had a bloody clue what the Expo is speaks volume of its use or not. I have had a brief search on the internet and i still cant quite understand what it is.

I have quite a bit of knowledge (not all positive) having attended the Brisbane Expo in 1988. But despite a reported B400 million advertising budget, I am yet to speak to a Thai with any knowledge.

[rixalex]

The enormous amounts of money required to fund an exposition that leaves no long term benefit was harebrained. Oh sure, the boosters of such wanton spending will offer a long list of "benefits". However, here's a reality check. Thailand doesn't have the money to pay for it.

Back in 2009, when the bid was announced, the theme of the event was rolled out to much fanfare; the theme: “Balanced Life, Sustainable Living – Let’s Redefine Globalization.” I mean, really? You don't think that theme in and of itself was asinine? Sustainable living in the land of consumerism? Really? Seriously?

The site of the exposition is not well served by mass transit. Just how would all these thousands of visitors get to Ayutthaya? By rail? By bus?

Right. And who wants to commute 2 -3 hours each way? Could Ayutthaya have handled the tourists? I don't think so.

And then there is the small problem of flooding.

This is probably the most intelligent decision the government has made since being elected.

I think deciding on whether holding the expo would be a good thing or bad, is a decision that would require some in depth research and some thorough investigation, by a team of qualified people over the course of several months. Not a decision that can be made by one foreign over his morning coffee, having undertaken fifteen minutes of armchair googling.

The government should have, as a matter of urgency, upon coming to power, set up said panel of experts and reached a decision on what they were going to do with regards Thailand's bid, and then, acted decisively one way or the other. That would have been the intelligent thing to have done. Instead it has ambled along with money continuing to be needlessly spent, committed neither to pushing the bid forward or pulling the bid out, resulting finally in Thailand experiencing the ignominy of being disqualified.

Pathetic mismanagement, non-existent leadership and money down the drain to boot, with the usual PTP fanboys applauding the fiasco from the sidelines, about sums this one up.

[Thai at Heart]

Well, it isn't going to be built in a day is it? Not much use if you start building the thing over a 3 or 4 year period and it gets washed away in the first or second year. When do they claim they will have finished the flood defences? 5 years or something like that, which is doubtful anyway considering that this includes numerous damns and the such. So it should just about hopefully finished in 2018? As yet no EIA's have been approved.

Didn't it just take 2 years to finish walls all the way around the industrial estates? Hardly high engineering.

The latest you can bid for this is 2014, so, wouldn't it just be great if they get a couple of years into the construction, and whammo, another catastrophe washes the whole thing away? Might make a little more sense to wait at least until the flood defences get built wouldn't it?

Should all progress until flood defences are in place? Or should we add semi-submersible to the criteria for the HSR?

Loading pylons for ths HSR is slightly different to trying to construct a site of how many square kilometres right in the middle of Thailands biggest flood plain.

its a national tradition that even when it doesn't rain, Ayuttaya goes under water.

[hellodolly]

For all those posters above spreading nonsense that Expo's are loss making.

Expo 2005 Japan

The cost of the Expo has been estimated at 340 billion yen ($3.3 billion). However, the recorded 22,049,544 visitors greatly exceeded the target of 15,000,000 and the Expo made a profit of over 10 billion yen.

Expo 2010 China

Shanghai spent 11.964 billion yuan in operating cost to host the event, making it the most expensive World Expo ever, but the organizers still made an operating profit of more than 1 billion yuan (US$157 million) thanks to the record attendance. The total revenue was 13.014 billion yuan, including 7.36 billion yuan in admission fees and almost 4 billion yuan in sponsorship income.

Source Wikipedia.

So to recap the last 2 Expos made resounding profits. But the real profit is innovative education opportunities, enhanced infrastructure and transportation and global exposure, not to mention a huge influx of tourists

Well Thailand would be interested in the tourist part. They think they already have some of the best in the world of innovative education opportunities, enhanced infrastructure and transportation and global exposure

[geriatrickid]

The decision to back away from a questionable big ticket expenditure should be drawing praise from the usual detractors of the government. Instead, their hatred won't allow them to acknowledge that the government exercised some good judgement. The references made to Japan and China as a justification for for a Thai event are not applicable. China does not realese reliable numbers. One need only look at the Bird's Nest stadium to get an indication of what the real result of the massive Chinese spending on its Olympics was. The economic spinoff benefits are always overstated for these events and the case in Japan was no different. What the promoters of such events fail to mention are the hidden costs sustained by prefecture/province/countries such as security, health care, infrastructure etc. Often, much of the infrastructure is temporary and not reusable. A classic example of this again is the Olympics where Athlete villages are always touted as opportunities to provide low cost housing after the Olympics. That doesn't happen. Just ask LA and Vancouver.

The International exposition group isn't a charity. It makes money. That money comes from the taxpayers of the countries that bid on these wasteful, useless events. Thailand isn't alone in it's decision. For example; Canada's minister responsible for its expositions made this statement;

“Our government is committed to reviewing all spending across Government with the aim of reducing the deficit and returning to balanced budgets. As part of this commitment, the International Expositions Program was cancelled at the end of March 2012. Therefore, Canada will … not be supporting future Canadian Expo bids at this time.”The letter points out that Canada is not taking part in the Expos in South Korea this year or Italy in 2015. The federal government declined to back Edmonton’s bid for the 2017 edition of the international showcase. The Canadian decision was supported by the Canadian public despite a campaign by some vested interests to reverse the decision.

I therefore ask the critics, how can you justify a government spending hundreds of millions, if not billions on an exposition in a location that is susceptible to catastrophic flooding, that doesn't have the basic infrastructure to support such an event, that did not have public support for the project and would have been unable to deliver the project on time? The bid was announced in 2009. but relatively little effort was expended on the bid by the government of that time, nor of the subsequent military junta or government. These events take years to plan and prepare for. It would have been impossible for the current government to put on an international exposition.

[iancnx]

// Not a decision that can be made by one foreign over his morning coffee, having undertaken fifteen minutes of armchair googling. //

Any one seen any expo trolls?

[rixalex]

The decision to back away from a questionable big ticket expenditure should be drawing praise from the usual detractors of the government. Instead, their hatred won't allow them to acknowledge that the government exercised some good judgement.

To repeat, the problem here isn't about whether the expo would have been good for Thailand or bad - because to also repeat, nobody here, including yourself, is qualified to make that judgement, not with any authority or expertise anyway - the problem here is that the government didn't make a decision, it simply allowed the bid to plod along, with money being drained off as it went, and the only reason the bid has now ended, is because the organizers have sensed and guessed from such things as correspondence they sent being ignored, that Thailand wasn't particularly committed to holding the event, and so the organizers effectively made the decision for Thailand by disqualifying it.

If the idea was so harebrained in the first place, and the decision to withdraw the bid was such a no-brainer, why on earth was that decision never decisively made by the government, and why was it not decisively made months and months ago, before more millions of baht were spent? Please tell.

[Bagwan]

I really like the photograph of the Chinese Pavilion. Who designed it? Lego?

[tominbkk]

the other explanation; it was a hair brained idea to begin with.

However for The Nation, and our resident Thaksin obsessors, that explanation is verboten.

Carry ON

Well lets dissect that a moment..... A hair brained idea?

Expo 2000 - Hanover Germany

Expo 2005 - Aichi Japan

Expo 2010 - Shanghai China

Expo 2015 - Milan Italy

What part of hosting a prestigious event like this do you find hair brain?

The enormous amounts of money required to fund an exposition that leaves no long term benefit was harebrained. Oh sure, the boosters of such wanton spending will offer a long list of "benefits". However, here's a reality check. Thailand doesn't have the money to pay for it.

Back in 2009, when the bid was announced, the theme of the event was rolled out to much fanfare; the theme: Balanced Life, Sustainable Living Lets Redefine Globalization. I mean, really? You don't think that theme in and of itself was asinine? Sustainable living in the land of consumerism? Really? Seriously?

The site of the exposition is not well served by mass transit. Just how would all these thousands of visitors get to Ayutthaya? By rail? By bus?

Right. And who wants to commute 2 -3 hours each way? Could Ayutthaya have handled the tourists? I don't think so.

And then there is the small problem of flooding.

This is probably the most intelligent decision the government has made since being elected.

Spot on.

Some people are so obsessed with intent to bash the government at every opportunity that it is seriously affecting their ability to think about any Thai news issue objectively. It's getting beyond tiresome.

True, the govt. has way to many Fuc*ups to contend with right now to worry about the World Fair. The billions of tons of rice, rotting in silos, is just one!

[iancnx]

Loving this.....

Lets have a nation that is outward looking, ambitious, confident, and have the will for the world to say something.....

Or

Inward looking, and, and, and nothing.

[iancnx]

Looks like my earlier posy has been obscured?

For all those posters above spreading nonsense that Expo's are loss making.

Expo 2005 Japan

The cost of the Expo has been estimated at 340 billion yen ($3.3 billion). However, the recorded 22,049,544 visitors greatly exceeded the target of 15,000,000 and the Expo made a profit of over 10 billion yen.

Expo 2010 China

Shanghai spent 11.964 billion yuan in operating cost to host the event, making it the most expensive World Expo ever, but the organizers still made an operating profit of more than 1 billion yuan (US$157 million) thanks to the record attendance. The total revenue was 13.014 billion yuan, including 7.36 billion yuan in admission fees and almost 4 billion yuan in sponsorship income.

Source Wikipedia.

So to recap the last 2 Expos made resounding profits. But the real profit is innovative education opportunities, enhanced infrastructure and transportation and global exposure, not to mention a huge influx of tourists

[iancnx]

Enter stage right ( or left) whatever colour you want. But in 2020 you will not be forgiven for such idiotic short-sightedness.

[salem9]

The decision to back away from a questionable big ticket expenditure should be drawing praise from the usual detractors of the government. Instead, their hatred won't allow them to acknowledge that the government exercised some good judgement.

To repeat, the problem here isn't about whether the expo would have been good for Thailand or bad - because to also repeat, nobody here, including yourself, is qualified to make that judgement, not with any authority or expertise anyway - the problem here is that the government didn't make a decision, it simply allowed the bid to plod along, with money being drained off as it went, and the only reason the bid has now ended, is because the organizers have sensed and guessed from such things as correspondence they sent being ignored, that Thailand wasn't particularly committed to holding the event, and so the organizers effectively made the decision for Thailand by disqualifying it.

If the idea was so harebrained in the first place, and the decision to withdraw the bid was such a no-brainer, why on earth was that decision never decisively made by the government, and why was it not decisively made months and months ago, before more millions of baht were spent? Please tell.

Funny to see the squirming to your pointed statements and questions by the googling experts .

[hellodolly]

the other explanation; it was a hair brained idea to begin with.

However for The Nation, and our resident Thaksin obsessors, that explanation is verboten.

Carry ON

Well lets dissect that a moment..... A hair brained idea?

Expo 2000 - Hanover Germany

Expo 2005 - Aichi Japan

Expo 2010 - Shanghai China

Expo 2015 - Milan Italy

What part of hosting a prestigious event like this do you find hair brain?

Thaksin did not initiate it.

Also they did not see where there was enough money to fill envelopes up.

Edited June 14, 2013 by hellodolly

[rametindallas]

Thailand's fast growing tourism doesn't need the boost the Expo would give. After this PT government's populist chickens come home to roost, there won't be any money in the treasury or any credit to borrow to fund the Expo. Most Expos are money-losers. The graft/corruption of whatever party is in control of the Expo will be horrendous. The delays in building anything by the government is notorious; think of the indoor soccer stadium in BKK. This government is pretty sure they won't be in power then and won't get the lion's share of the graft. Why take a chance? Maybe in 2050 Thailand can host a World Expo; maybe not.

Edited June 14, 2013 by rametindallas

[hellodolly]

What the government has to explain is the opposite of what The Nation is grumpy about. That is, why the government entered the contest in the first place. I love Thailand, I live here -- but the idea Thailand could pull off something like this is as unlikely as George Bush acquiring a brain. Meanwhile, Bangkok is sinking. Slowly, slowly, surely, surely.

It was the Democrats who entered it. They had enough confidence in there ability to be able to do it.

It would have brought international attention to Thailand as some thing more than beaches with high priced spas and a lot of evening entertainment for men.

This would have been far and away proof that Thailand had more to offer. Unfortunately it would not have added enough money to the Shinawatra bank account so it had to be dropped in favor of a more lucrative plan involving a huge amount of tax payers money and rice.

Stop and think about the show they could have put on with that 250,000,000,000 baht.

[geriatrickid]

The decision to back away from a questionable big ticket expenditure should be drawing praise from the usual detractors of the government. Instead, their hatred won't allow them to acknowledge that the government exercised some good judgement.

To repeat, the problem here isn't about whether the expo would have been good for Thailand or bad - because to also repeat, nobody here, including yourself, is qualified to make that judgement, not with any authority or expertise anyway - the problem here is that the government didn't make a decision, it simply allowed the bid to plod along, with money being drained off as it went, and the only reason the bid has now ended, is because the organizers have sensed and guessed from such things as correspondence they sent being ignored, that Thailand wasn't particularly committed to holding the event, and so the organizers effectively made the decision for Thailand by disqualifying it.

If the idea was so harebrained in the first place, and the decision to withdraw the bid was such a no-brainer, why on earth was that decision never decisively made by the government, and why was it not decisively made months and months ago, before more millions of baht were spent? Please tell.

The current government did not spend millions of baht on the exposition. However, even if it did, your argument is that the government should have thrown good money after bad. This is Thailand. No one ever wants to deliver bad news that someone's pet project has been cancelled.

Even Abhisit who had been given the hot potato and made the announcement of the exposition in 2009 has distanced himself from what have been a massive failure.

You are unhappy nopw because the government did not cancel the exposition the way you would have liked.

Ahh, boo hoo.

[rixalex]

The current government did not spend millions of baht on the exposition.

Yes it has.

However, even if it did, your argument is that the government should have thrown good money after bad.

What are you talking about? My argument is nothing of the sort. My argument is that the government should have made a decision on the expo one way or the other months and months ago to prevent precisely what you mention: good money being thrown after bad. Instead the government simply allowed the bid to plod along with money draining away as it went, and with it neither pushing the bid forward nor pulling it off the table.

You are unhappy nopw because the government did not cancel the exposition the way you would have liked.

Ahh, boo hoo.

I would have liked it if they had actually canceled it, preferably a long time ago before more money was wasted. They didn't. They were disqualified from the process. No decisive decision was ever taken on the matter, until the decision was made for them.

As for the boo hoo comment, it exposes, if it needed to be, an immature and an arrogant disposition. It also demonstrates that in spite of the mouthing that goes on about helping the downtrodden poor, when money is needlessly wasted that could have been used to help them, a toss really could not be given.

[iancnx]

For all those posters above spreading nonsense that Expo's are loss making.

Expo 2005 Japan

The cost of the Expo has been estimated at 340 billion yen ($3.3 billion). However, the recorded 22,049,544 visitors greatly exceeded the target of 15,000,000 and the Expo made a profit of over 10 billion yen.

Expo 2010 China

Shanghai spent 11.964 billion yuan in operating cost to host the event, making it the most expensive World Expo ever, but the organizers still made an operating profit of more than 1 billion yuan (US$157 million) thanks to the record attendance. The total revenue was 13.014 billion yuan, including 7.36 billion yuan in admission fees and almost 4 billion yuan in sponsorship income.

Source Wikipedia.

So to recap the last 2 Expos made resounding profits. But the real profit is innovative education opportunities, enhanced infrastructure and transportation and global exposure, not to mention a huge influx of tourists

Apologies for the re-post but some of the chaps above are just not getting it, or are choosing to ignore the facts to continue their political ping pong match.

[mikemac]

"The political party who initiated it."....Touche !

But be careful what you say OzMick, the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Hares may take offence at your choice of words.

[rametindallas]

For all those posters above spreading nonsense that Expo's are loss making.

Expo 2005 Japan

The cost of the Expo has been estimated at 340 billion yen ($3.3 billion). However, the recorded 22,049,544 visitors greatly exceeded the target of 15,000,000 and the Expo made a profit of over 10 billion yen.

Expo 2010 China

Shanghai spent 11.964 billion yuan in operating cost to host the event, making it the most expensive World Expo ever, but the organizers still made an operating profit of more than 1 billion yuan (US$157 million) thanks to the record attendance. The total revenue was 13.014 billion yuan, including 7.36 billion yuan in admission fees and almost 4 billion yuan in sponsorship income.

Source Wikipedia.

So to recap the last 2 Expos made resounding profits. But the real profit is innovative education opportunities, enhanced infrastructure and transportation and global exposure, not to mention a huge influx of tourists

Apologies for the re-post but some of the chaps above are just not getting it, or are choosing to ignore the facts to continue their political ping pong match.

According to Transparency International, both those countries are not Thailand and they are less corrupt than Thailand. Just because someone makes a profit from an activity doesn't mean everyone can make a profit on the same activity. Your sales pitch is low on quality facts.

http://www.transparency.org/cpi2012/results

Edited June 15, 2013 by rametindallas

[hellodolly]

For all those posters above spreading nonsense that Expo's are loss making.

Expo 2005 Japan

The cost of the Expo has been estimated at 340 billion yen ($3.3 billion). However, the recorded 22,049,544 visitors greatly exceeded the target of 15,000,000 and the Expo made a profit of over 10 billion yen.

Expo 2010 China

Shanghai spent 11.964 billion yuan in operating cost to host the event, making it the most expensive World Expo ever, but the organizers still made an operating profit of more than 1 billion yuan (US$157 million) thanks to the record attendance. The total revenue was 13.014 billion yuan, including 7.36 billion yuan in admission fees and almost 4 billion yuan in sponsorship income.

Source Wikipedia.

So to recap the last 2 Expos made resounding profits. But the real profit is innovative education opportunities, enhanced infrastructure and transportation and global exposure, not to mention a huge influx of tourists

Apologies for the re-post but some of the chaps above are just not getting it, or are choosing to ignore the facts to continue their political ping pong match.

According to Transparency International, both those countries are not Thailand and they are less corrupt than Thailand. Just because someone makes a profit from an activity doesn't mean everyone can make a profit on the same activity. Your sales pitch is low on quality facts.

http://www.transparency.org/cpi2012/results

Well you got the Those countries are not Thailand part right.

Your assumption that the last three have made money does not necessarily mean it will lose money the fourth time makes no sense to me. Please provide some backing for that.

The poster gave you just not a somebody but he gave you the names and pointed out that they were in a row not cheery picked out of a hat. He also gave you the figures on the profit they made.

I do agree that Thailand under PTP leadership indeed would have very little chance of showing a profit.

If in fact a put on a decent exhibition.

If they had taken the honorable way out they would have withdrawn their name for consideration rather than put on the ho hum show to the committee when they came too inspect Thailand's suitability.

[Baerboxer]

So a few weeks ago the current government said everything was progressing nicely and even spent a budget of THB 400m to ensure Thai people were aware of this prestigious opportunity.

Suddenly they loose all interest, and let the opportunity go.

Nice to know why, if this is the correct decision based on investment and return, it wasn't made before the 400m was spent. Nice to know where and how the 400m has been spent.

Interesting that one of the contenders is Dubai, whose meglomaniac leader benevolently allows convicted fugitive criminals to reside. The world is just full of odd coincidences.