MrHammer Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 When I first visited Thailand some 8 years ago, I was very impressed by how cheap taxis were and how easy it was to find one - anywhere in Bangkok. I can't help think that has changed now. I avoid taking a taxi now as almost every time the taxi driver will refuse, complain, sigh or do a little lap around the neighborhood. I think it is directly correlated with the low fare. With increasing living expenses these taxi drivers can't afford to do the unprofitable trips anymore, so they just pick and choose the ones they want. There are also too many of them around, particularly now with the BTS functioning better with new stations. Raise the fare, limit the number of taxis just a bit. Sometimes you will be in a traffic jam and half the cars are taxis. Doesn't make sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosta Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 They have raised the after flag-fall rates in recent years. If they actually enforced the law that they can't say no that would also help.* Plus actually setting a bit of a limit would make sense from many POV, but of course any system like NYC's medallions would immediately get corrupted big-time and just make the situation much worse. I've started just getting in and telling them in Thai the general direction, first stage of the route I want to go, then making friendly conversation for a few minutes before revealing my final destination. Been working 100% so far. . . *extenuating circumstances like wrong direction at the end of shift excused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NomadJoe Posted June 18, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted June 18, 2013 Come stay in Phuket a while and I guarantee you will never complain about taxi's in Bangkok again. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eesat Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Come stay in Phuket a while and I guarantee you will never complain about taxi's in Bangkok again. You have to rent a scooter if you live in Phuket,there's no other way.I feel sorry for tourists and those that don't drive scooters down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosta Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Just avoid the place, much easier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yourauntbob Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 They need more mrt and bts routes/stations throughout bkk. if this happened most other problems with taxis and traffic would dissapear. the last few weeks i have been in europe and the missus was puzzeled at why there is "no traffic" until she realized that most people ride the trains. quicker, safer, cheaper in a big city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasun Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 If you're happy to pay more, offer it. They'll be happy to accept and you won't encounter the problems you describe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokstick Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 If they are not happy they can go back to work at the farm and see if they prefer working in the heat under the sun or in the comfort of their aircin cab... EASY ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosta Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 They need more mrt and bts routes/stations throughout bkk. if this happened most other problems with taxis and traffic would dissapear. the last few weeks i have been in europe and the missus was puzzeled at why there is "no traffic" until she realized that most people ride the trains. quicker, safer, cheaper in a big city. - Wrong, no matter how dense and effective any public transport systems are in the future, there will always be congestion on surface roads from the hi-so types that would never be caught dead mixing with the hoi polloi. They'd rather buy those toilet kits so they can have a poo in the car while stuck in traffic than lose their precious face. At least put in a London-style taxing scheme and have them subsidize the public transport system. Oh wait these are the guys that write the laws, scratch that. Only real solution is to increase the percentage of the city land area dedicated to road surfaces to something like civilized countries' cities have, enforce the traffic laws and particularly put in place effective street parking laws. Maybe this will all change in the future, but I won't hold my breath (unless I have to ride along with someone using the above 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeownership Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Come stay in Phuket a while and I guarantee you will never complain about taxi's in Bangkok again. Come stay in Phuket a while and I guarantee you will never complain about taxi's in Bangkok again. I have never experienced anything quite like Patong Beach for Taxi Fairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosta Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I agree those fairs are a lot of fun. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris2004 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I have just come back from Koh Samui it's the same there rip off taxi fares. It would probably stop me ever going back there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomadJoe Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 They need more mrt and bts routes/stations throughout bkk. if this happened most other problems with taxis and traffic would dissapear. the last few weeks i have been in europe and the missus was puzzeled at why there is "no traffic" until she realized that most people ride the trains. quicker, safer, cheaper in a big city. - Wrong, no matter how dense and effective any public transport systems are in the future, there will always be congestion on surface roads from the hi-so types that would never be caught dead mixing with the hoi polloi. Hi so causing traffic jams. Lol. That is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard. People fitting your desciption probably make up .5% of the total traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomatopo Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 There has been an annual mention of raising flag fall to 40 or 45 baht, traffic jam rates and distance rates for the past few years. The most recent thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/641054-taxi-fares-to-be-raised-as-living-cost-rises/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosta Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 (edited) Hi so causing traffic jams. Lol. That is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard. People fitting your desciption probably make up .5% of the total traffic.- Residents of Bangkok owning private cars isn't that high a percentage of the total, but everyone suffers from their selfishness. Many of them may not be genuinely hi-so, but a much more significant number would not consider taking public transport unless forced to by e.g. a London-style CBD-entry tax. So for the purposes of this topic, let's define that last group as "hi-so" enough for the discussion. Edited June 19, 2013 by boosta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post samran Posted June 19, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted June 19, 2013 They need more mrt and bts routes/stations throughout bkk. if this happened most other problems with taxis and traffic would dissapear. the last few weeks i have been in europe and the missus was puzzeled at why there is "no traffic" until she realized that most people ride the trains. quicker, safer, cheaper in a big city. - Wrong, no matter how dense and effective any public transport systems are in the future, there will always be congestion on surface roads from the hi-so types that would never be caught dead mixing with the hoi polloi. They'd rather buy those toilet kits so they can have a poo in the car while stuck in traffic than lose their precious face. At least put in a London-style taxing scheme and have them subsidize the public transport system. Oh wait these are the guys that write the laws, scratch that. Only real solution is to increase the percentage of the city land area dedicated to road surfaces to something like civilized countries' cities have, enforce the traffic laws and particularly put in place effective street parking laws. Maybe this will all change in the future, but I won't hold my breath (unless I have to ride along with someone using the above 8-) You really don't know what a hi-so is do you? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomadJoe Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 They need more mrt and bts routes/stations throughout bkk. if this happened most other problems with taxis and traffic would dissapear. the last few weeks i have been in europe and the missus was puzzeled at why there is "no traffic" until she realized that most people ride the trains. quicker, safer, cheaper in a big city. - Wrong, no matter how dense and effective any public transport systems are in the future, there will always be congestion on surface roads from the hi-so types that would never be caught dead mixing with the hoi polloi. They'd rather buy those toilet kits so they can have a poo in the car while stuck in traffic than lose their precious face. At least put in a London-style taxing scheme and have them subsidize the public transport system. Oh wait these are the guys that write the laws, scratch that. Only real solution is to increase the percentage of the city land area dedicated to road surfaces to something like civilized countries' cities have, enforce the traffic laws and particularly put in place effective street parking laws. Maybe this will all change in the future, but I won't hold my breath (unless I have to ride along with someone using the above 8-) You really don't know what a hi-so is do you? Yeah, a Thai that owns a car is not hi-so, but the point is an accurate one. Thai car ownership has skyrocketed and that has increased problems. A big problem is also design, but in terms of the number of cars, that's obvious: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosta Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 (edited) You really don't know what a hi-so is do you?- The term itself has no objective meaning, any more than "beautiful", all in the eye of the beholder. Maybe you missed this? http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/647556-raise-the-taxi-fares-already/?p=6521703 So off-topic, but out of the total population of Thailand, what would be your guess as to the percentage that owned a private car (not used for commercial purposes)? Maybe you think the term should only apply to the top 1%, or maybe the forty families that own most of Thailand's means of production? Up to you. For purposes of this discussion, a tautological definition will suffice: People that would feel ashamed to use public transport, using their private car is so important to them they'd pay a significant amount for the privilege. I suspect that's a pretty high percentage of people driving private cars in Bangkok, and that was my point about why improved public transport isn't the only solution. Reducing the taxis - replacing them with minibuses on fixed routes supplemented by local door-to-door routing using currently available technology. And a high tax on the use of private cars in congested areas, also proven do-able. Another alternative or additional one is actually razing neighborhoods to increase the percentage of Bangkok's land area dedicated to roads is even less likely to happen than the other two. Edited June 19, 2013 by boosta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefan Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Ok - look at that picture Nomadjoe kindly posted. Huge part of the traffic jams in central BKK are CAUSED by taxis - and now we should increase the fare, attracting even MORE taxis......hmmmm.... I have seen the same situation in both Sathorn, Silom, Rama 4, Sukhumvit, Ploenchit, Petchburi Etc. Packed with taxis almost all with free sign shining..... No; instead simply keep the fares as is - it is obviously still a great business for most (not just the rip-off taxis standing waiting for tourists), and let supply/demand handle it. Yes, it might get a little harder sometimes to get a taxi in case some go back to Isaan or find other work - but that is how it should be. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosta Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I almost always chat with the driver about business, and most seem to clear 1000-2000 per day depending on how many hours they're willing to put in and how clever they are about maximizing their fares The owner gets 500-600 per 12 hour shift, some rent for 24 hours at around 1000. The LPG/NGV companies do all right too, just the general public doesn't get paid for the unnecessary poisonous fumes. . . As I said, too bad Thailand doesn't have an environment conducive to rational regulation, any scheme to limit licenses would quickly create many more problems than it would solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSnapper Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Raising the taxi fares may be a fair measure regarding the high costs in this city. But it won't change the scams, the abusive behaviour, the impoliteness and rudeness of many taxi drivers here. Thais aren't the nicest people in the world, and taxi drivers show it daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosta Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 (edited) Really. I don't bother ever getting into an argument, what's the point, the next one's not exactly far away. But now that I think about it, I have had literally not a single negative experience with a taxi driver in many many years now, but have had very many pleasant and productive conversations, in some cases made friends gotten introduced to the family had meals together. Amazing how we can all live in the same place and create such different realities for ourselves. And PS in my experience Thais are indeed among the nicest people in the world, but I guess only if. . . Edited June 19, 2013 by boosta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeahSiam Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Really. I don't bother ever getting into an argument, what's the point, the next one's not exactly far away. But now that I think about it, I have had literally not a single negative experience with a taxi driver in many many years now, but have had very many pleasant and productive conversations, in some cases made friends gotten introduced to the family had meals together. Amazing how we can all live in the same place and create such different realities for ourselves. And PS in my experience Thais are indeed among the nicest people in the world, but I guess only if. . . I cannot begin to imagine when you would have the time to even HAIL a taxi let alone argue with one because it looks like you are on this forums 24/7. Registered 13th June and nearly 500 posts already. You pipe up on pretty much EVERY topic running including, rather amusingly, the now-closed "broke expat" thread. I say amusing because you are obviously FunFon (not to mention PaiMan, sunlong and Cluey) the guy who couldn't pay his rent for a year or something. You need to stop creating new realities and user IDs and get some kind of life away from the screen, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakegeneve Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 (edited) They need more mrt and bts routes/stations throughout bkk. if this happened most other problems with taxis and traffic would dissapear. the last few weeks i have been in europe and the missus was puzzeled at why there is "no traffic" until she realized that most people ride the trains. quicker, safer, cheaper in a big city. - Wrong, no matter how dense and effective any public transport systems are in the future, there will always be congestion on surface roads from the hi-so types that would never be caught dead mixing with the hoi polloi. They'd rather buy those toilet kits so they can have a poo in the car while stuck in traffic than lose their precious face. At least put in a London-style taxing scheme and have them subsidize the public transport system. Oh wait these are the guys that write the laws, scratch that. Only real solution is to increase the percentage of the city land area dedicated to road surfaces to something like civilized countries' cities have, enforce the traffic laws and particularly put in place effective street parking laws. Maybe this will all change in the future, but I won't hold my breath (unless I have to ride along with someone using the above 8-) This is one quite silly to say that it is just about the land surface are of road availability. On the Hi So issue that is less than 1% of BKK traffic pop but what you do say is true insofar as the mentality that one has to drive everywhere is very prevalent in the middle classes and even the lower classes once a car is purchase. It is old status thinking. This will gradually change in decades to come as people realise how much time they waste stuck in traffic and as the metro network expands and offers choice. BKK is poorly designed, yes roads and sois are too narrow and terribly designed, yes BKK didn't have a proper Transport Master Plan (overall Master Plan NOT just mass transit) until the mid 2000s and even then it was not an integrated one. Poor traffic management and lax traffic rule enforcement contribute significantly tyo the problem. And let's not forget very poor driver training with a large number of people even driving without licences. 90 000 taxis on the road doesn't help either, especially when they blocked lanes! However, experience world wide and in BKK patently shows that the more roads you build the more traffic ends up being created. The general experience world wide is that building more roads has actually lead to INCREASED travel times for most car users. This has been proven time and time again by numerous studies. And the experience here in BKK is the same. Over the last decade dozens of new roads have been built and guess what- they are are generally gridlocked! Building more roads is 1950s mentality. You might wish to join the 21st century which involves and integrated approach primarily revolving around mass transit. Edited June 19, 2013 by Lakegeneve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakegeneve Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 They need more mrt and bts routes/stations throughout bkk. if this happened most other problems with taxis and traffic would dissapear. the last few weeks i have been in europe and the missus was puzzeled at why there is "no traffic" until she realized that most people ride the trains. quicker, safer, cheaper in a big city. This is gradually and belatedly happening. Unfortunately, due to a combination of avoidable factors of a poor planning and implementation framework and dysfunctional, self interests politics. BKK is about 15 years behind where it should be with a metro network. Most lines/extension either under construction or planned are 5+ or more years behind original schedules. By 2016 we'll have a base network extending to nearly every direction of the city and surrounding provinces. By 2020 this should have expanded by another 40%. You can get more info from this thread (check back a few pages for a summary list and the Master Plan), http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page-7#entry6519325 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosta Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 This is one quite silly to say that it is just about the land surface are of road availability.- I didn't say that's the only reason did I? But it certainly is a fundamental one; Bangkok's road surface area is less than 8 percent, compared to a third of most Western cities where they have a bit more forward development planning. http://iatss.or.jp/english/research/17-1/pdf/17-1-02.pdf - However, experience world wide and in BKK patently shows that the more roads you build the more traffic ends up being created. The general experience world wide is that building more roads has actually lead to INCREASED travel times for most car users. This has been proven time and time again by numerous studies. ... Building more roads is 1950s mentality. You might wish to join the 21st century which involves and integrated approach primarily revolving around mass transit. - I completely agree, and in fact I doubt if you'll find many that have the same strength of feelings about private automobiles being the source of much evil in the world, would be great if we designed our communities so they could be banned completely, sooner the better. But back to reality, I think you'll find the studies you cite are talking about the truly proven false idea that highways INTO the cities allowing easy access from OUTSIDE would improve commuting times. However in this case I'm talking about the normal INTRA-access roadways, and of course off-street parking capacity to allow the existing traffic to simply get from one point to another within the city. Suburbs are definitely unsustainable, large well-planned cities are the only way forward and as you say hopefully there won't be any need for the term "Public transport" because the idea of private cars will be as antiquated as the horse and buggy are today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakegeneve Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) This is one quite silly to say that it is just about the land surface are of road availability.-I didn't say that's the only reason did I? But it certainly is a fundamental one; Bangkok's road surface area is less than 8 percent, compared to a third of most Western cities where they have a bit more forward development planning. http://iatss.or.jp/english/research/17-1/pdf/17-1-02.pdf - However, experience world wide and in BKK patently shows that the more roads you build the more traffic ends up being created. The general experience world wide is that building more roads has actually lead to INCREASED travel times for most car users. This has been proven time and time again by numerous studies. ... Building more roads is 1950s mentality. You might wish to join the 21st century which involves and integrated approach primarily revolving around mass transit. -I completely agree, and in fact I doubt if you'll find many that have the same strength of feelings about private automobiles being the source of much evil in the world, would be great if we designed our communities so they could be banned completely, sooner the better. But back to reality, I think you'll find the studies you cite are talking about the truly proven false idea that highways INTO the cities allowing easy access from OUTSIDE would improve commuting times. However in this case I'm talking about the normal INTRA-access roadways, and of course off-street parking capacity to allow the existing traffic to simply get from one point to another within the city. Suburbs are definitely unsustainable, large well-planned cities are the only way forward and as you say hopefully there won't be any need for the term "Public transport" because the idea of private cars will be as antiquated as the horse and buggy are today. Yes true you didn't say that it was the only reason. Clearly you are more enlightened than most folk on this issue so I retract my 50s thinking comment and extend my apologies for an incorrect interpretation/assumption on my part. In relation to the studies, the ones I have read have all been about main arterial roads and feeder roads but including suburban streets in some. Not so much freeways/motorways/autobahns/ highways/expressways though freeway times do get a big mention in NA and Australian studies. So I beleived those studies do cover your description of Intra-access. One of the other big problems here is the street parking issue as you mention. It is very hard to think of any other city in the world where one can park there vehicle on an inner city street or road and not pay 1 baht for that privilege. That really needs to stop both in terms of creating more lanes on key roads but also as a revenue source for the BMA which could then help with mass transit costs (given the BMA paid for the 3 BTS exts, the BRT and now looking at funding the MRT Grey line). And bangkok needs all manner of traffic calming measures implemented. However, when basic traffic laws can't even be enforced now such will be impossible. The most egregious example of those who selfishly park on main roads all day and disrupt traffic flow are traders at Word Trade, on Silom rd and upper Sukhumvit rd. They just park their pick ups right on the road taking a lane away from use (what should be a dedicated bus lane). In the World Trade example along with stationary taxis and tuk tuks it means that buses then often are stopping 2-3 lanes from the kerb of Ratchadamri rd. It really is a mess. On silom rd, that 3rd lane is often not available most of the day. Of course, this practice is repeated all over BKK and surrounding provinces. Edited June 21, 2013 by Lakegeneve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosta Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Yes true you didn't say that it was the only reason. Clearly you are more enlightened than most folk on this issue so I retract my 50s thinking comment and extend my apologies for an incorrect interpretation/assumption on my part. Wow, now that's rare to see, appreciated very much. Highly recommend "The Power Broker", bio of Robert Moses the brilliant megalomaniac that shaped New York's post-war urban landscape, huge influence in America and the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meom Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 They need more mrt and bts routes/stations throughout bkk. if this happened most other problems with taxis and traffic would dissapear. the last few weeks i have been in europe and the missus was puzzeled at why there is "no traffic" until she realized that most people ride the trains. quicker, safer, cheaper in a big city.-Wrong, no matter how dense and effective any public transport systems are in the future, there will always be congestion on surface roads from the hi-so types that would never be caught dead mixing with the hoi polloi. Maybe the hi-so types can go by heli-taxi? Not sure if this exists in Bangkok. CNN had a feature about Sao Paulo the other day where heli taxis are the way to beat traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosta Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) A real flying car: http://www.terrafugia.com/ A real jetpack: http://martinjetpack.com/highflight-demo.aspx More stimulating alternative: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GFmvMHPQ1k8 A bit more prosaic but still cool IMO: http://mashable.com/2013/05/29/electric-skateboards/ Edited June 21, 2013 by boosta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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