Breaking Up in Thailand

[cpofc]

I've recently just come out of a 3 year relationship with a thai girl, 28yrs old office worker lower middle class and a real stunner. I don't think i'd ever entertain doing it again.

I never married or got engaged to her, i wanted to, but there were just too many red flags popping along the way for me to take the plunge.

I'm 36 by the way and never had a problem attracting hot women in the west so i wasn't really operating out of my league and with lots of disposable income to burn.

She could have had it all from me visa, marriage into a fairly affluent western family, everything she said that she wanted in life, but she couldn't hold it together for more than 6 months. Unsurprisingly it was all my fault.

After stepping back from the situation and accessing the last 3 years its been one compromise after the other with her. trying to pass off lies and lack of respect as culture is just making excuses for them.

I dont just mean her, i'd say 99% of Thais from all backgrounds that I've met are selfish, self centered people with very little to offer a reasonably smart educated westerner in friendship or in relationships.

Personally i would chose a average looking western women over a hot Thai any day.

I think you deserve many, many "LIKES" for this post. I am worried I am going to run out, as I have agreed with many here, tonight. But we can't give more than one anyway, dam_n it!

So, here is my +5 LIKES!

you know, I do believe, in general, you are right. I have come to realise it's me. I come from a different era. I am a dinosaur. My Thai friends are all pretty amazed that I stay single and live alone. I do so, consciously, as a matter of choice. For the very reasons others have posted. Simply, I don't need the hassle. My middle aged thai friends with mia nois all have problems with them. Drama, Drama, Drama.

Thai girls, 30-40 years, ago weren't like they are today. That's a fact. Like chalk and cheese, Once upon a time they would not have said 'shit' for sixpence. They had manners, politeness and respect, even raising ones voice was a no-no. I reckon the Thai Soaps they watch and the Comics they grow up reading has a lot to do with it.

I stopped visitng Pattaya about 7 years ago, for a number of reasons, but one of them was that the girls (and mostly everything else) had become too hard core, take no prisoners.

Thailand is now a country where even a Monk deals Ya ba from inside the Wat! Progress?

Today. Many Thai girls WILL stand over a man. But, only If he lets her. The thing is, if you are weak, and you do let them stand over you, then they also lose all respect for you for letting them do so!

probably best not to go into the subject of increasing Domestic Violence in the Kingdom here

[Cambodger]

I completely agree that the statement "most Thais that farang encounter here aren't as sincere, honest and kind to strangers as people back home" is perfectly true.

I am also saying that the statement "most Thais are just as sincere, honest and kind to strangers as people back home" is true as well.

And I am suggesting, to those who are committed to staying in Thailand, that there are solutions to this gap, if you have the resources to pursue them.

No difference in our realities then is there? Just a question of whether or not it's worth your while to invest the time energy money etc to solve the problem. Many farang think it's not worth the trouble to learn the language, move to areas where few other farang live, get to know people with whom they feel they don't have anything in common etc. and that's a perfectly acceptable POV.

The price for that is you will continue to experience a sub-optimal reality in Thailand as a result

Or you may choose to go someplace completely different, lots of choices, we make our bed and then we sleeps in it.

I really love that quote- "experience a sub- optimal reality" i think that about sums up what most farangs experience in the main tourist hubs.

Also not sure if it was you who mentioned earlier that most farangs return home after 3 years after the illusion turns to delusion, or something similar.

Thats pretty much how i feel after 3 years, I'm not completely out of love with Thailand, though doubt i'll ever be able to view it through the same green eyes again.

[Cambodger]

I've recently just come out of a 3 year relationship with a thai girl, 28yrs old office worker lower middle class and a real stunner. I don't think i'd ever entertain doing it again.

I never married or got engaged to her, i wanted to, but there were just too many red flags popping along the way for me to take the plunge.

I'm 36 by the way and never had a problem attracting hot women in the west so i wasn't really operating out of my league and with lots of disposable income to burn.

She could have had it all from me visa, marriage into a fairly affluent western family, everything she said that she wanted in life, but she couldn't hold it together for more than 6 months. Unsurprisingly it was all my fault.

After stepping back from the situation and accessing the last 3 years its been one compromise after the other with her. trying to pass off lies and lack of respect as culture is just making excuses for them.

I dont just mean her, i'd say 99% of Thais from all backgrounds that I've met are selfish, self centered people with very little to offer a reasonably smart educated westerner in friendship or in relationships.

Personally i would chose a average looking western women over a hot Thai any day.

I think you deserve many, many "LIKES" for this post. I am worried I am going to run out, as I have agreed with many here, tonight. But we can't give more than one anyway, dam_n it!

So, here is my +5 LIKES!

you know, I do believe, in general, you are right. I have come to realise it's me. I come from a different era. I am a dinosaur. My Thai friends are all pretty amazed that I stay single and live alone. I do so, consciously, as a matter of choice. For the very reasons others have posted. Simply, I don't need the hassle. My middle aged thai friends with mia nois all have problems with them. Drama, Drama, Drama.

Thai girls, 30-40 years, ago weren't like they are today. That's a fact. Like chalk and cheese, Once upon a time they would not have said 'shit' for sixpence. They had manners, politeness and respect, even raising ones voice was a no-no. I reckon the Thai Soaps they watch and the Comics they grow up reading has a lot to do with it.

I stopped visitng Pattaya about 7 years ago, for a number of reasons, but one of them was that the girls (and mostly everything else) had become too hard core, take no prisoners.

Thailand is now a country where even a Monk deals Ya ba from inside the Wat! Progress?

Today. Many Thai girls WILL stand over a man. But, only If he lets her. The thing is, if you are weak, and you do let them stand over you, then they also lose all respect for you for letting them do so!

probably best not to go into the subject of increasing Domestic Violence in the Kingdom here

I wish someone had given me that advice 3 years ago...

[amykat]

Sorry, I haven't gotten to the end of this topic yet, working on it ...but I just want to comment on this one.

It seems that I have heard this story, or versions of it, so many, many, many times here ...the "somebody else wants to marry me" ...oh, and don't forget in these cases ...the other person, is always "wealthy, or more wealthy" than you.

Since many of us seem to agree that Thai people often lie, about any and all things, do you guys never see that these comments are most likely lies?? Part of closing the deal, making you jealous, making the person/woman seem more valuable (because someone else, who is rich! wants to marry them), making you possibly also think "oh, she doesn't just want money because someone richer than me offered to marry her and she stuck with me." Not that I am saying that all these ladies only want you for money.

I mean, the very quantity of these claims, always included with the fact that the woman is currently "seriously" involved with you ...I don't know, have any of you guys proposed marriage to ladies who were living with other men at the time, is that very common? I think it is not. I know everyone isn't living together, but still?

I have to say, that I wish I could have read about Thai ladies and their ways when I was much younger! I might have learned some valuable lessons. Or I still might, if I decide to become a car salesperson or something. I really would have thought, that admitting (lie or not) that I was involved enough with another man, that he proposed to me, would have sent my Western male partners over the edge, and that I would be dumped as a cheating, whore. But it seems it doesn't work that way at all!! I never would have guessed this!!

-

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying or asking here.

Putting aside Thai vs western cultural stuff for now, I think the issue is common for both.

It is rarely the case IMO that a man is out there actively pursuing the courtship racket looking for a wife. He's usually out having fun living his life and a big part of that is pursuing attractive females for sex and companionship, but getting married is something far from the forefront of most single guys minds.

However it is in my experience pretty common, both where I come from and here, for women to reach a certain stage where they feel it's time to settle down and get married and make a family. The clock is certainly ticking here sooner and with more urgency, but usually by the time a woman back home gets into her thirties, certainly long before forty, she's out there in the marriage market.

And most women will arrange things so they have multiple guys "pursuing them" at the same time, because these things take time and if you were do do this serially, you'd be wasting a lot of precious time, so you engage with the market in parallel. If a given potential partner is very very attractive but hasn't yet popped the question, you may well dither and dally with other keener but less attractive partners, putting them off in the hope that you can close the deal with your first choice.

Although this pattern is very common and totally accepted in my home culture, I find that Thai ladies have this game down to a real science, play it like their life's at stake, which I suppose it is. And while back home a guy may be perhaps a bit more likely to know about his competitors, or at least know that he has competition (part of the game), here I think girls try more to let the guy think he's the one and only prospect.

Some westerners consider this dishonest and immoral, but I completely accept it as the way things are, and think completely fair enough from the girls' POV.

Where the two cultures really differ is that ours considers it to be completely OK if the woman is sexually active with more than one suitor at a time, while here that's a real no-no, in theory any premarital sex is frowned upon, in reality most Thais will be OK as long as it's only one and there is a serious intention is to get married (talking here about publicly acknowledged mainstream, not what's actually done in secret).

Amykat, is any of the above in conflict with your view of things? Does it clarify the situation or just make it even more complicated?

Yes, what you have said conflicts with my experience. I think what you have described sounds like a book about sexual relationships between monkeys, humans, the old "competition for sperm or eggs" stories ...maybe I am just not a typical woman?

I don't think it is at all acceptable to be looking for numerous marriage partners at the same time. I mean, unless you are really not with any people. I think "serial monogamy" is the accepted way these days. You try relationships out, you learn things from them, you move on, or you marry them, and probably divorce later in many cases. Then you date again, you might marry again, etc. Not, you date 5 people at the same time, find out who will offer marriage, and go for that one.

What don't you understand about what I said? I have had serious, long term relationships with Western men. If I were to suddenly tell them, some other guy, wants to marry me, they would surely think I had been cheating on them. I doubt I could get a man seriously interested in marriage, without ever sleeping with them, and without having a serious relationship with them. So if I have had two, or more of these going at the same time, what Western man, would consider me marriage material?? That is what I think!! I think I may have found out, that this is wrong (my thinking) because some men, men in Thailand, seem to feel more inclined to take you seriously in this case, more inclined to give you money (especially if you say some other guy is giving you more money, or bigger jewelry?), more inclined to suddenly want to marry you too!

Sort of like car salespeople, or others salespeople, who tell you, this car/house/ whatever, already has 6 offers on it, but they are just telling lies, to get you motivated.

[waxon]

It is amazing all strong opinions about the relationship between a Thai women and a farang guy. I have many Thai men friends who have long and short term relationships within Thai women. I also know Thai women (my wife's friends) who have relationships with Thai men. In every case, the Thai guy does what he wants.

It is surprising (to me) how little regard the guys have. I am not talking about uneducated village Thais. These are well educated Thais with good jobs.

Posters who say that you misled this woman (even though you are not even living with her) are wrong or applying double standards just because you are farang. Your culture and dating background don't make a difference. Your relationship should be no different than between a Thai couple. The woman should not have expectations any different than if you were Thai. For people to hold you to a different standard and give you advice (and criticism) based on that are just blowing your situation out of proportion.

The breakups I personally know about, the farang guy treated the woman the same as a Thai guy would. The Thai woman responded in kind. Yes, there was crying and bad feelings, but there was no violence.

Don't believe that you need to do something or act differently because you are farang. Be fair. If you are not planning on making your relationship more permanent, then break it off now. Don't wait until April.

[ozzieovaseas]

Anyone else inclined to share a bit of their own break up history, or is this just gonna keep getting slung back at me?

Well since you asked... When you break up with a Thai girl it is ALL your fault. Thats the way it always will be, especially since you are the farang. You get ALL the blame.No amount of logic or reasoning will ever lead them to consider the guys viewpoint nor will they ever consider that THEY might have had some contribution in it going south. Of all the breakups ive had, none were without SERIOUS dramas. Every one of them absolutely over the top,stupid and immature behaviour and even violence. If you persist with dating them its best to do it the Thai way and LIE..and if your ever in doubt, LIE AGAIN!! I would never of agreed with this once but after my experiences... In your situation you've already started the ball rolling so there is not much to be done now but leave. But for the future, in this particular situation i would have said... DON'T say anything about any of your plans until the last minute. Then tell her someone in your family is gravely ill and you need to go home but only for a short time. After each month passes you just re-adjust the lie. Yes its a tad devious, but a jilted Thai GF will do A LOT worse to you and think nothing of it

Sad statement you make but not far from the truth. Its a shambles !

I have to agree, a bl00dy big shambles!! and definately a bit sad.

Whats worse though (and i was having this convo with a mate the other night) is how you and your own values and reactions to certain things can change over time (if your not careful) simply because of all the time spent dealing with the BS from these partners like my ex.

I used to think i was a quite compassionate and caring person once but nowadays im not so sure. Im not sure if my own mother would be so proud if she knew of the way i HAVE to operate here in order to not get taken.

After all, its a bit hard NOT to be a cynic and to be skeptical about nearly everything you hear...when in fact everything you DO hear IS BS. The sad thing is you've been so conditioned to hearing lies time after time.

Its a bit like the boy who cried wolf actually..I always think..one day someone will ask for my help and they will be TRUELY in need and very deserving of a break, but i will just assume its another one of the loosers trying to take the mickey

[cpofc]

yes, I have often wondered how I would go if I stepped off a plane in the LOS for the first time, at middle age.

My first encounter was in Olongapo City, Subc Bay, Philippines - MAR 1970. The Sex Capital of the Universe at the time. I was 16 years Old.

It was like the wild west, and I looked around and said to myself - 'This is your life'

and it truly was, for many, many years, all over Asia, Africa, etc., until I married in BKK in 85

[Cambodger]

Sorry, I haven't gotten to the end of this topic yet, working on it ...but I just want to comment on this one.

It seems that I have heard this story, or versions of it, so many, many, many times here ...the "somebody else wants to marry me" ...oh, and don't forget in these cases ...the other person, is always "wealthy, or more wealthy" than you.

Since many of us seem to agree that Thai people often lie, about any and all things, do you guys never see that these comments are most likely lies?? Part of closing the deal, making you jealous, making the person/woman seem more valuable (because someone else, who is rich! wants to marry them), making you possibly also think "oh, she doesn't just want money because someone richer than me offered to marry her and she stuck with me." Not that I am saying that all these ladies only want you for money.

I mean, the very quantity of these claims, always included with the fact that the woman is currently "seriously" involved with you ...I don't know, have any of you guys proposed marriage to ladies who were living with other men at the time, is that very common? I think it is not. I know everyone isn't living together, but still?

I have to say, that I wish I could have read about Thai ladies and their ways when I was much younger! I might have learned some valuable lessons. Or I still might, if I decide to become a car salesperson or something. I really would have thought, that admitting (lie or not) that I was involved enough with another man, that he proposed to me, would have sent my Western male partners over the edge, and that I would be dumped as a cheating, whore. But it seems it doesn't work that way at all!! I never would have guessed this!!

-

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying or asking here.

Putting aside Thai vs western cultural stuff for now, I think the issue is common for both.

It is rarely the case IMO that a man is out there actively pursuing the courtship racket looking for a wife. He's usually out having fun living his life and a big part of that is pursuing attractive females for sex and companionship, but getting married is something far from the forefront of most single guys minds.

However it is in my experience pretty common, both where I come from and here, for women to reach a certain stage where they feel it's time to settle down and get married and make a family. The clock is certainly ticking here sooner and with more urgency, but usually by the time a woman back home gets into her thirties, certainly long before forty, she's out there in the marriage market.

And most women will arrange things so they have multiple guys "pursuing them" at the same time, because these things take time and if you were do do this serially, you'd be wasting a lot of precious time, so you engage with the market in parallel. If a given potential partner is very very attractive but hasn't yet popped the question, you may well dither and dally with other keener but less attractive partners, putting them off in the hope that you can close the deal with your first choice.

Although this pattern is very common and totally accepted in my home culture, I find that Thai ladies have this game down to a real science, play it like their life's at stake, which I suppose it is. And while back home a guy may be perhaps a bit more likely to know about his competitors, or at least know that he has competition (part of the game), here I think girls try more to let the guy think he's the one and only prospect.

Some westerners consider this dishonest and immoral, but I completely accept it as the way things are, and think completely fair enough from the girls' POV.

Where the two cultures really differ is that ours considers it to be completely OK if the woman is sexually active with more than one suitor at a time, while here that's a real no-no, in theory any premarital sex is frowned upon, in reality most Thais will be OK as long as it's only one and there is a serious intention is to get married (talking here about publicly acknowledged mainstream, not what's actually done in secret).

Amykat, is any of the above in conflict with your view of things? Does it clarify the situation or just make it even more complicated?

Yes, what you have said conflicts with my experience. I think what you have described sounds like a book about sexual relationships between monkeys, humans, the old "competition for sperm or eggs" stories ...maybe I am just not a typical woman?

I don't think it is at all acceptable to be looking for numerous marriage partners at the same time. I mean, unless you are really not with any people. I think "serial monogamy" is the accepted way these days. You try relationships out, you learn things from them, you move on, or you marry them, and probably divorce later in many cases. Then you date again, you might marry again, etc. Not, you date 5 people at the same time, find out who will offer marriage, and go for that one.

What don't you understand about what I said? I have had serious, long term relationships with Western men. If I were to suddenly tell them, some other guy, wants to marry me, they would surely think I had been cheating on them. I doubt I could get a man seriously interested in marriage, without ever sleeping with them, and without having a serious relationship with them. So if I have had two, or more of these going at the same time, what Western man, would consider me marriage material?? That is what I think!! I think I may have found out, that this is wrong (my thinking) because some men, men in Thailand, seem to feel more inclined to take you seriously in this case, more inclined to give you money (especially if you say some other guy is giving you more money, or bigger jewelry?), more inclined to suddenly want to marry you too!

Sort of like car salespeople, or others salespeople, who tell you, this car/house/ whatever, already has 6 offers on it, but they are just telling lies, to get you motivated.

i wanted to write something similar to this but i think you articulated it much better than i ever could. The overwhelming impression i take away from it is just how honest open and straight most westerners are in the relationships.

Almost everyone i know back home are in long lasting strong relationship or marriages and if they do end, they usually find another one.

The whole idea of playing off more than one partner is almost unheard of especially where i come from (UK)

Most people even, if they dont know for certain that its happening to them, if being honest with themselves will have a sense or inkling that all is not well, so how can you ever find the trust to build a meaningful relationship with that kind of person.

Its not a norm that i could ever accept.

[amykat]

I'm pretty sure that I want to give out "LiKES" to everyone on page 15? But alas, I ran out. I like to give validation where it is due, so sorry posters, I think you are due, but I cannot give any more. I really liked this whole page!!

[SinglePot]

I'm pretty sure that I want to give out "LiKES" to everyone on page 15? But alas, I ran out. I like to give validation where it is due, so sorry posters, I think you are due, but I cannot give any more. I really liked this whole page!!

But how is the OP doing?

[amykat]

-

It is rarely the case IMO that a man is out there actively pursuing the courtship racket looking for a wife. He's usually out having fun living his life and a big part of that is pursuing attractive females for sex and companionship, but getting married is something far from the forefront of most single guys minds.

However it is in my experience pretty common, both where I come from and here, for women to reach a certain stage where they feel it's time to settle down and get married and make a family.

I would like to answer this point in your post. As far as what I have read, and I READ a LOT, probably my main occupation in life ...but I can't give you an authority for this info ...I could but am too lazy to look it up. Anyway, there is a lot of research, lets just limit it to Western men, because I don'f know if it applies to other cultures.

It says that Western men tend to get married, at certain ages. And this age tends to be 28-30 as far as I can remember. It might be 28-32, or 31, not sure, but pretty sure, around 30 is the golden number. The research I have read says that the biggest factor regarding IF a man will marry you or not, seems to be their age! You can look this up and read about it if you like.

[benalibina]

Anyone else inclined to share a bit of their own break up history, or is this just gonna keep getting slung back at me?

Well since you asked... When you break up with a Thai girl it is ALL your fault. Thats the way it always will be, especially since you are the farang. You get ALL the blame.No amount of logic or reasoning will ever lead them to consider the guys viewpoint nor will they ever consider that THEY might have had some contribution in it going south. Of all the breakups ive had, none were without SERIOUS dramas. Every one of them absolutely over the top,stupid and immature behaviour and even violence. If you persist with dating them its best to do it the Thai way and LIE..and if your ever in doubt, LIE AGAIN!! I would never of agreed with this once but after my experiences... In your situation you've already started the ball rolling so there is not much to be done now but leave. But for the future, in this particular situation i would have said... DON'T say anything about any of your plans until the last minute. Then tell her someone in your family is gravely ill and you need to go home but only for a short time. After each month passes you just re-adjust the lie. Yes its a tad devious, but a jilted Thai GF will do A LOT worse to you and think nothing of it

Sad statement you make but not far from the truth. Its a shambles !

I have to agree, a bl00dy big shambles!! and definately a bit sad. Whats worse though (and i was having this convo with a mate the other night) is how you and your own values and reactions to certain things can change over time (if your not careful) simply because of all the time spent dealing with the BS from these partners like my ex. I used to think i was a quite compassionate and caring person once but nowadays im not so sure. Im not sure if my own mother would be so proud if she knew of the way i HAVE to operate here in order to not get taken. After all, its a bit hard NOT to be a cynic and to be skeptical about nearly everything you hear...when in fact everything you DO hear IS BS. The sad thing is you've been so conditioned to hearing lies time after time. Its a bit like the boy who cried wolf actually..I always think..one day someone will ask for my help and they will be TRUELY in need and very deserving of a break, but i will just assume its another one of the loosers trying to take the mickey

When 1 slowly looses innocense because of experiences in life, it is called to ADAPT with survival or reaching 1s goal. Player of the game ? Its not my cup of tea but as i am an honest man and do not lieto my partner, it has really backfired to me. Do i want to change and become a liar ? NO. I just have to keep my mouth more shut and diverse about a subject. I consider that SAD !

[boosta]

I would like to answer this point in your post. As far as what I have read, and I READ a LOT, probably my main occupation in life ...but I can't give you an authority for this info ...I could but am too lazy to look it up. Anyway, there is a lot of research, lets just limit it to Western men, because I don'f know if it applies to other cultures.

It says that Western men tend to get married, at certain ages. And this age tends to be 28-30 as far as I can remember. It might be 28-32, or 31, not sure, but pretty sure, around 30 is the golden number. The research I have read says that the biggest factor regarding IF a man will marry you or not, seems to be their age! You can look this up and read about it if you like.

-

Correlation does not imply causation

I believe most men decide to get married when a given woman attractive enough to him puts in the effort to make it worth his while. If that's true the timing is also decided more by the female's decisions rather than the male's.

[amykat]

When 1 slowly looses innocense because of experiences in life, it is called to ADAPT with survival or reaching 1s goal. Player of the game ? Its not my cup of tea but as i am an honest man and do not lieto my partner, it has really backfired to me. Do i want to change and become a liar ? NO. I just have to keep my mouth more shut and diverse about a subject. I consider that SAD !

+++5 LIkes!

[amykat]

_{HI Boosta,}

_{Look it up ...I am not one to get easily conned by a headlilne in People Magazine. I can't remember where I read this, but I am a fairly capable person. Maybe I will Google it and see if I can find something, but I am going to bed soon ...so maybe tomorrow?}

Edited June 21, 2013 by amykat

[amykat]

I want to say thanks to Boosta for recommending several times, I read this thread.

I was a bit rude/abrasive to him in another thread the other day and am sorry for that. (But I do think whatever I said.) He does make many very good posts, and while I could tell him this directly, I thought it might mean more to do it publicly.

So here are my many "LIKES" to his contribution to this topic.

[lannarebirth]

Quite frankly, I don't think you know what you are talking about. A degree from Chula, Tammassat, KKC, CMU and other state universities in Thailand, are just as good as ones in the US , the UK or others. Such degrees are recognized worldwide. May I remind you that Chula is one of the best universities in the world (among the 100!!) So, please be careful with your judgement and don't be disrespectful!

Thanks boosta, that was a great reply. We, however, are not living together. She would never go for that.

At present, we are still a couple. She is trying to get me to change schools. She says there are Thai schools of good quality, and that it isn't necessary to work at an international school in order to have a stable work environment. I am considering this option. As you say, she is still the woman I've cared about to this point. Nevertheless, with ASEAN around the corner, and Thailand growing leaps and bounds, an M.Ed would create much needed stability for me, before deciding to start a family here.

What happened to:"I'm a teacher here, and have realized the Thai education system isn't a good fit for me."?

I think you'll find that most schools in Thailand, whatever type, follow the same education system.

As for your original question: I guess it can be many things, but it is probably just that she likes you and doesn't want you to leave her.

And the last thing is that she does not want to lose is FACE She probably got the wedding invitations printed already

A Thai women (any Thai for that matter) is dangerous in the extreme.

If you do tell her that you have to go (leave the realm) giver her flight details including a date that is 3-4 days after your actual confirmed departure.

The fact that she has (supposedly) a masters here don't mean shyt, it wouldn't even be the equivalent of college certificate in the US 'or anywhere else'

None of that is true. Get your facts straight.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2012-13/world-ranking

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2012-13/regional-ranking/region/asia

[boosta]

None of that is true. Get your facts straight.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2012-13/world-ranking

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2012-13/regional-ranking/region/asia

-

Not sure what it is that you are disagreeing with since your quotation markers got all mixed up.

Rankings based on statistical surveys regarding academic quality do not equate to credibility on the ground in the corporate world.

Suggesting to an intelligent competent western student that they should enroll in a Thai tertiary institution rather than returning to study at home is downright irresponsible, except in a few very specialized circumstances.

Also already addressed here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/647782-breaking-up-in-thailand/?p=6526107

Edited June 21, 2013 by boosta

[yoslim]

how boring can a thread get, I feel like I've been reading the same rubbish for 15 pages

[benalibina]

SinglePot, I meant, that I needed to pay you for that compliment ...why, do you take payment for sex, or romance? Do you offer a package deal for the both?

Sorry. I knew it was a mistake immediately I posted it. I tried to edit it but got my knickers in a twist. Send money by all means. Thank you very much. Are you pretty?

Asked her same question before with the addition if she is single ! She never replied. So she must only be loaded, i guess.

38D, purse, or a big heart?

PURSE !!!!!!!!

[lannarebirth]

None of that is true. Get your facts straight.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2012-13/world-ranking

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2012-13/regional-ranking/region/asia

-

Not sure what it is that you are disagreeing with since your quotation markers got all mixed up.

Rankings based on statistical surveys regarding academic quality do not equate to credibility on the ground in the corporate world.

Suggesting to an intelligent competent western student that they should enroll in a Thai tertiary institution rather than returning to study at home is downright irresponsible, except in a few very specialized circumstances.

Also already addressed here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/647782-breaking-up-in-thailand/?p=6526107

Yes, the quote got screwed up. It's pretty common with this software unfortunately. Anyway, I was just disabusing the poster I quoted of the notion that he posted, that any Thai University ranked highly in any global survey.

[metisdead]

Trolling nonsense has been removed.

[boosta]

Yes, the quote got screwed up. It's pretty common with this software unfortunately. Anyway, I was just disabusing the poster I quoted of the notion that he posted, that any Thai University ranked highly in any global survey.

-

Aha. Well #83 is not too bad really considering. But even if the patterns if objective statistics used in such surveys meant Chula was say in the top ten in the world, you'd have to have a very compelling CV otherwise or be specifically involved in studying Thai language and culture as a career, or Buddhism etc, none of which are hot employment prospects in the corporate market anyway, just to overcome the stigma and suspicion evoked by a long stay in Thailand.

Edited June 22, 2013 by boosta

[spidermike007]

Anyone else inclined to share a bit of their own break up history, or is this just gonna keep getting slung back at me?

Well since you asked...

When you break up with a Thai girl it is ALL your fault. Thats the way it always will be, especially since you are the farang.

You get ALL the blame.No amount of logic or reasoning will ever lead them to consider the guys viewpoint nor will they ever consider that THEY might have had some contribution in it going south.

Of all the breakups ive had, none were without SERIOUS dramas. Every one of them absolutely over the top,stupid and immature behaviour and even violence.

If you persist with dating them its best to do it the Thai way and LIE..and if your ever in doubt, LIE AGAIN!! I would never of agreed with this once but after my experiences...

In your situation you've already started the ball rolling so there is not much to be done now but leave.

But for the future, in this particular situation i would have said...

DON'T say anything about any of your plans until the last minute. Then tell her someone in your family is gravely ill and you need to go home but only for a short time.

After each month passes you just re-adjust the lie. Yes its a tad devious, but a jilted Thai GF will do A LOT worse to you and think nothing of it

Anyone else inclined to share a bit of their own break up history, or is this just gonna keep getting slung back at me?

Well since you asked...

When you break up with a Thai girl it is ALL your fault. Thats the way it always will be, especially since you are the farang.

You get ALL the blame.No amount of logic or reasoning will ever lead them to consider the guys viewpoint nor will they ever consider that THEY might have had some contribution in it going south.

Of all the breakups ive had, none were without SERIOUS dramas. Every one of them absolutely over the top,stupid and immature behaviour and even violence.

If you persist with dating them its best to do it the Thai way and LIE..and if your ever in doubt, LIE AGAIN!! I would never of agreed with this once but after my experiences...

In your situation you've already started the ball rolling so there is not much to be done now but leave.

But for the future, in this particular situation i would have said...

DON'T say anything about any of your plans until the last minute. Then tell her someone in your family is gravely ill and you need to go home but only for a short time.

After each month passes you just re-adjust the lie. Yes its a tad devious, but a jilted Thai GF will do A LOT worse to you and think nothing of it

What you are suggesting, is that most Thai women are incapable of introspection, self analysis, self criticism, accepting blame, or accepting responsibility for mistakes, or shortcomings. I think this is the absolute truth. But, I do not think this is limited to women. It includes nearly all members of Thai society. It includes nearly every politician and person of power in this country. It is inherent within the Thai mentality. It is a tremendous shortcoming, and really holds this country back. I might go so far as to say it is the number one personality defect, or weakness of most Thai people. The whole concept of "face" is merely an excuse to avoid doing any of this. It is the greatest form of cowardice possible. No willingness to look within means you are half a person. You simply cannot be whole without the willingness to say I am sorry, I was wrong. I can do better. Is that not part of what it means to be a progressive human being? The fascinating thing with Thai pride, is that it does not extend to craftsmanship, or insistence on doing a job well. It is a superficial pride, that contains within it zero substance.

[boosta]

What you are suggesting, is that most Thai women are incapable of introspection, self analysis, self criticism, accepting blame, or accepting responsibility for mistakes, or shortcomings. I think this is the absolute truth. But, I do not think this is limited to women. It includes nearly all members of Thai society. It includes nearly every politician and person of power in this country. It is inherent within the Thai mentality. It is a tremendous shortcoming, and really holds this country back. I might go so far as to say it is the number one personality defect, or weakness of most Thai people. The whole concept of "face" is merely an excuse to avoid doing any of this. It is the greatest form of cowardice possible. No willingness to look within means you are half a person. You simply cannot be whole without the willingness to say I am sorry, I was wrong. I can do better. Is that not part of what it means to be a progressive human being? The fascinating thing with Thai pride, is that it does not extend to craftsmanship, or insistence on doing a job well. It is a superficial pride, that contains within it zero substance.

At least you're saying most rather than all.

I agree with the gist of what you're saying and the fact that these thought habits do indeed impede the ability of many Thai people and therefore Thai society to improve.

However I think the phenomenon is more evident in contexts where the relationship between the people involved is more superficial, functional rather than within the sphere of close personal relationships.

When you get more intimately involved - and by that I mean psychologically, genuinely emotional intimacy, obviously that excludes most early-stage transactional relationships even if you're living together - when you constantly exhibit 100% vulnerable honesty and don't respond to the superficial manipulation, I have found that many Thais can indeed display a soul-searching desire to improve their character. This work is usually done by discussions within the family and extended visits to the temple for meditation training and counseling with the monks, since professional psychology isn't practiced here much for prosaic life problems.

I think the fact that the interactions most foreigners here have with Thais is relatively functional and superficial leads to an exaggerated perception of the problem. Not saying it isn't real, just that it doesn't go as deep nor is it as universal as you may think.

BTW the processes we're talking about is called "maturing" and does indeed start much later here for most Thais, so if you're teerak hasn't hit her use-by date she most likely hasn't started on any soul-searching just yet due to the following "Calvin syndrome"

Edited June 22, 2013 by boosta

[spidermike007]

What you are suggesting, is that most Thai women are incapable of introspection, self analysis, self criticism, accepting blame, or accepting responsibility for mistakes, or shortcomings. I think this is the absolute truth. But, I do not think this is limited to women. It includes nearly all members of Thai society. It includes nearly every politician and person of power in this country. It is inherent within the Thai mentality. It is a tremendous shortcoming, and really holds this country back. I might go so far as to say it is the number one personality defect, or weakness of most Thai people. The whole concept of "face" is merely an excuse to avoid doing any of this. It is the greatest form of cowardice possible. No willingness to look within means you are half a person. You simply cannot be whole without the willingness to say I am sorry, I was wrong. I can do better. Is that not part of what it means to be a progressive human being? The fascinating thing with Thai pride, is that it does not extend to craftsmanship, or insistence on doing a job well. It is a superficial pride, that contains within it zero substance.

At least you're saying most rather than all.

I agree with the gist of what you're saying and the fact that these thought habits do indeed impede the ability of many Thai people and therefore Thai society to improve.

However I think the phenomenon is more evident in contexts where the relationship between the people involved is more superficial, functional rather than within the sphere of close personal relationships.

When you get more intimately involved - and by that I mean psychologically, genuinely emotional intimacy, obviously that excludes most early-stage transactional relationships even if you're living together - when you constantly exhibit 100% vulnerable honesty and don't respond to the superficial manipulation, I have found that many Thais can indeed display a soul-searching desire to improve their character. This work is usually done by discussions within the family and extended visits to the temple for meditation training and counseling with the monks, since professional psychology isn't practiced here much for prosaic life problems.

I think the fact that the interactions most foreigners here have with Thais is relatively functional and superficial leads to an exaggerated perception of the problem. Not saying it isn't real, just that it doesn't go as deep nor is it as universal as you may think.

BTW the processes we're talking about is called "maturing" and does indeed start much later here for most Thais, so if you're teerak hasn't hit her use-by date she most likely hasn't started on any soul-searching just yet due to the following "Calvin syndrome"

What you are suggesting, is that most Thai women are incapable of introspection, self analysis, self criticism, accepting blame, or accepting responsibility for mistakes, or shortcomings. I think this is the absolute truth. But, I do not think this is limited to women. It includes nearly all members of Thai society. It includes nearly every politician and person of power in this country. It is inherent within the Thai mentality. It is a tremendous shortcoming, and really holds this country back. I might go so far as to say it is the number one personality defect, or weakness of most Thai people. The whole concept of "face" is merely an excuse to avoid doing any of this. It is the greatest form of cowardice possible. No willingness to look within means you are half a person. You simply cannot be whole without the willingness to say I am sorry, I was wrong. I can do better. Is that not part of what it means to be a progressive human being? The fascinating thing with Thai pride, is that it does not extend to craftsmanship, or insistence on doing a job well. It is a superficial pride, that contains within it zero substance.

At least you're saying most rather than all.

I agree with the gist of what you're saying and the fact that these thought habits do indeed impede the ability of many Thai people and therefore Thai society to improve.

However I think the phenomenon is more evident in contexts where the relationship between the people involved is more superficial, functional rather than within the sphere of close personal relationships.

When you get more intimately involved - and by that I mean psychologically, genuinely emotional intimacy, obviously that excludes most early-stage transactional relationships even if you're living together - when you constantly exhibit 100% vulnerable honesty and don't respond to the superficial manipulation, I have found that many Thais can indeed display a soul-searching desire to improve their character. This work is usually done by discussions within the family and extended visits to the temple for meditation training and counseling with the monks, since professional psychology isn't practiced here much for prosaic life problems.

I think the fact that the interactions most foreigners here have with Thais is relatively functional and superficial leads to an exaggerated perception of the problem. Not saying it isn't real, just that it doesn't go as deep nor is it as universal as you may think.

BTW the processes we're talking about is called "maturing" and does indeed start much later here for most Thais, so if you're teerak hasn't hit her use-by date she most likely hasn't started on any soul-searching just yet due to the following "Calvin syndrome"

Good feedback. I am fortunate enough to have a very intelligent teerak, who cares enough to look within, when problems arise. We both do. But, I have found with alot of Thais, especially in commercial situations, such as home contractors, rental agencies, retail environments, bankers, etc, the merchant not only gives no thought to future patronage, but usually is unwilling to accept any responsibility for any issues, problems, disagreements, etc. Of course there are exceptions, or I would have left long ago. I must maintain my faith in humanity, so exceptions are a gift. But, most Thais I encounter are exceptionally devoid of vision. Yes, I am thankful for the faith of the Thai people, and the moral course it sets out for them. A moral and ethical road map so to speak. I do think Buddhism contributes to alot of good qualities that the Thai people have. And i do love the Thai people, despite these protestations. And yes, the more one has invested in the relationship, the more one is willing to do what it takes to keep things pleasant and harmonious.

[boosta]

Yes, superficial relationships like commercial transactions are exactly where you see this the most. The idea that delivering good service in order to generate positive word of mouth and repeat business hasn't yet penetrated many industries here.

Perhaps the fact that we're completely outside the reciprocal-favors networking model that drives everything here makes it a much worse problem for us foreigners - when your brother-in-law's uncle is the contractor you probably don't have the problem so much, and you're not looking to extract maximum value out of the transaction either.

Finally, as long as it's illegal to give accurate feedback publicly here, this problem of market inefficiency will probably be slow to change.

[lannarebirth]

Yes, the quote got screwed up. It's pretty common with this software unfortunately. Anyway, I was just disabusing the poster I quoted of the notion that he posted, that any Thai University ranked highly in any global survey.

-

Aha. Well #83 is not too bad really considering. But even if the patterns if objective statistics used in such surveys meant Chula was say in the top ten in the world, you'd have to have a very compelling CV otherwise or be specifically involved in studying Thai language and culture as a career, or Buddhism etc, none of which are hot employment prospects in the corporate market anyway, just to overcome the stigma and suspicion evoked by a long stay in Thailand.

That's #83 in Asia. The highest rated Thai University globally is King Mongkut Technical University at #385, Mahidol is next.

[boosta]

That's #83 in Asia. The highest rated Thai University globally is King Mongkut Technical University at #385, Mahidol is next.

Actually KMUTT just got in on the ground floor first one to submit to be part of that particular survey.

Not like there's just one survey out there anyway is there, take them all with a grain of salt.

Once they figure out how to game the results they'll start climbing. Actually a good way for the outside world to have a positive impact, encouraging original scholarly research rather than just pumping out graduates.

But again none of these surveys have much to do with credibility of your actual CV being reviewed by actual corporate hiring managers.

Edited June 22, 2013 by boosta

[indyuk]

Anyone else inclined to share a bit of their own break up history, or is this just gonna keep getting slung back at me?

20 years ago I lived in Phuket I met setteled down with a Thai woman from a military family in Udon Thani. I adored her. Together we started an import business in the then somewhat quieter upmarket resort of Patong. I had continueing business interests back home and left to attend to matters arising. It was upsetting for both of us as I would be away two to three months. We travelled to Singapore together to delay our parting until the last possible moment. We were both crying as I headed to my flight to LA. Although we had never lived together it was very difficult for us. I still wore the Temple bands of commitment on my wrist and called her every day but there was never an answer.

Weeks later I manage to return to Thailand early. The business premises were boarded-up. No one had seen my partner in weeks. I pannicked and went to the Farmers Bank where both the business account and my personal account was. The business account had been emptied and closed. By way of calming me on hearing this news because I was very angry The bank presented me with a copy of a police report that stated that the bearer had reported that her partner had been missing for months and is now presumed dead because all attempts to contact said business partner had be fruitless.

Admittedly telephone comunication to Thailand then was tenuous at best. But my future was trashed. The total loss in love and of our joint property continued to upset me and so I left Thailand again for the security of my old life and to take stock of my options for another three months. On my return to Thailand I set about trying to find her....but that is another story.

Edited June 22, 2013 by indyuk