Breaking Up in Thailand

[Rimmer]

Inflammatory bickering posts removed as per report

[benalibina]

Well no matter what Tom, you sure have concentrated some minds, even if some of them are ever so slightly warped. So what's the verdict, and can I have the 'rights' for the Thai Movie ? Please ?After note. The movie would encompass all of the above..... The OP would be thread running through it all. Oh.... And you would live happily ever after in my script.

Verdict is I'm going to be honest about the possibility of my departure, but not tell her I'm 99% sure of it. Moreover, I'll stress to her that we can try and make it work. It seems the most reasonable course to take. And as I mentioned, even if she's not actively dating other guys, I don't think she'll stop entertaining the attention that comes her way on a regular basis. Point being, for those inclined to accuse me of wasting her time, I think she's well in control of keeping her options open.

Ok, I'm confused....See, the majority of advice on the thread has been of a piss or get off the pot nature - either get out of the relationship now, or man-up and either plan to take her to the states or stay with her in Thailand. Yet the OP appears to have decided to string her along for another year and still probably go back to the states alone. In doing so he will not only be lying to the girl for the next year, but will face a by-that-time entirely righteously angry, disappointed and hurt woman and a potentially far more explosive situation than he now faces.What gives OP?

He better have safe sex and not make her pregnant as i have mentioned before. Life is a game and you can only keep playing it together when you play by the same rules. If the rules unknowingly are changed by 1, the other than ...... well up to him/her !

[aTomsLife]

Well no matter what Tom, you sure have concentrated some minds, even if some of them are ever so slightly warped. So what's the verdict, and can I have the 'rights' for the Thai Movie ? Please ?

After note. The movie would encompass all of the above..... The OP would be thread running through it all. Oh.... And you would live happily ever after in my script.

Verdict is I'm going to be honest about the possibility of my departure, but not tell her I'm 99% sure of it. Moreover, I'll stress to her that we can try and make it work. It seems the most reasonable course to take. And as I mentioned, even if she's not actively dating other guys, I don't think she'll stop entertaining the attention that comes her way on a regular basis. Point being, for those inclined to accuse me of wasting her time, I think she's well in control of keeping her options open.

Ok, I'm confused....

See, the majority of advice on the thread has been of a piss or get off the pot nature - either get out of the relationship now, or man-up and either plan to take her to the states or stay with her in Thailand. Yet the OP appears to have decided to string her along for another year and still probably go back to the states alone. In doing so he will not only be lying to the girl for the next year, but will face a by-that-time entirely righteously angry, disappointed and hurt woman and a potentially far more explosive situation than he now faces.

What gives OP?

I'm not planning to string her along. I've told her the truth about my plans. We already spoke about them again this evening. She knows there's a good chance I'm leaving. I said I will stress the fact that I'm willing to try and make it work.

I simply added that I'm sure she'll keep her options open.

Edit: I see now how my previous post reads, and see your point (the 99% thing. Anyway, I already told her.)

Edited June 20, 2013 by aTomsLife

[benalibina]

Well no matter what Tom, you sure have concentrated some minds, even if some of them are ever so slightly warped. So what's the verdict, and can I have the 'rights' for the Thai Movie ? Please ?After note. The movie would encompass all of the above..... The OP would be thread running through it all. Oh.... And you would live happily ever after in my script.

Verdict is I'm going to be honest about the possibility of my departure, but not tell her I'm 99% sure of it. Moreover, I'll stress to her that we can try and make it work. It seems the most reasonable course to take. And as I mentioned, even if she's not actively dating other guys, I don't think she'll stop entertaining the attention that comes her way on a regular basis. Point being, for those inclined to accuse me of wasting her time, I think she's well in control of keeping her options open.

Ok, I'm confused....See, the majority of advice on the thread has been of a piss or get off the pot nature - either get out of the relationship now, or man-up and either plan to take her to the states or stay with her in Thailand. Yet the OP appears to have decided to string her along for another year and still probably go back to the states alone. In doing so he will not only be lying to the girl for the next year, but will face a by-that-time entirely righteously angry, disappointed and hurt woman and a potentially far more explosive situation than he now faces.What gives OP?

I'm not planning to string her along. I'm going to tell her the truth about my plans. We already spoke about them again this evening. She knows there's a good chance I'm leaving. I said I will stress the fact that I'm willing to try and make it work. I simply added that I'm sure she'll keep her options open.

Based on what ?

[GooEng]

Fair enough. Best of luck with it.

[kikoman]

I agree with GooEng, the OP needs to let the young lady go, It would be a lot cheaper to buy your companionship then to keep stringing this young lady along.

If she is a "Good Girl" that seems to care about you, and you are in the relationship to bid your time until it is time to go back home. Many Thai family members may not look at your lying to their daughter, sister ect and come after you to avenge the honor of their family member,

One may be young and able to defend themselves but street-fighting in Thailand is much different then those in the West.

Good Luck in making the right decision for all concerned.

Cheers:

[boosta]

I'm not planning to string her along. I've told her the truth about my plans. We already spoke about them again this evening. She knows there's a good chance I'm leaving. I said I will stress the fact that I'm willing to try and make it work.

-

But what does "try and make it work" mean to you?

To her it means that you guys make a lifelong commitment to stay together, maybe even exclusively, for the rest of your lives.

Have you made it clear that you know that's not in the cards?

I'm not at all saying that you owe it to her to get married, but now that you know a lot more about how things work here - no matter what she tries to tell you about how she's willing to go along with your western ways it's not true - you now have IMO a much stronger moral obligation to s%#t or get off the pot, either put a ring on it or break up and set her free to pursue those other options.

Just "being honest" with her isn't "doing the right thing by her" anymore. . .

[benalibina]

I'm not planning to string her along. I've told her the truth about my plans. We already spoke about them again this evening. She knows there's a good chance I'm leaving. I said I will stress the fact that I'm willing to try and make it work.

-But what does "try and make it work" mean to you?To her it means that you guys make a lifelong commitment to stay together, maybe even exclusively, for the rest of your lives.Have you made it clear that you know that's not in the cards?I'm not at all saying that you owe it to her to get married, but now that you know a lot more about how things work here - no matter what she tries to tell you about how she's willing to go along with your western ways it's not true - you now have IMO a much stronger moral obligation to s%#t or get off the pot, either put a ring on it or break up and set her free to pursue those other options.Just "being honest" with her isn't "doing the right thing by her" anymore. . .

Try and explain this to his girlfriend. A moral knight gets hammered in LOS ! You know that as well.

[aTomsLife]

Yes, I know. We spoke a lot this evening. Sorry guys, I don't have all the answers right now. I'm trying to do right by her and myself. Indeed, she wants to get married. Maybe not now, but she wants to be with the guy who's going to marry her. And I want a stable career, so that when I wake in the morning I don't cringe at the thought of going to work.

Things are quite calm this evening, and we're trying to speak rationally to one another. That's all for now. Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all the interest I've received here. Bye for now.

[David48]

.

A wonder how much truth there is in some advice I was given years ago about Thailand.

When a Thai girl says 'I Love You' ... often, depending on circumstances, can be translated as 'I Need You' ... which can be sometimes one and the same thing.

BTW boosta ... twas only last week you were a twinkle in someone's eye ... how you have grown since ...

.

[Eesat]

A friend of mine dated a Thai girl for a couple years. When he wanted to break up she freaked out too. It cost him 100,000 Baht cash for her to be satisfied with the break up. So you may consider giving her a break up settlement.

I'd rather use it for a nice business class flight back to Heathrow thanks!

[boosta]

... twas only last week you were a twinkle in someone's eye ... how you have grown since ...

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man."

-- Heraclitus of Ephesus

"Each night, when I go to sleep, I die. And the next morning, when I wake up, I am reborn."

-- Mahatma Gandhi

"Until we find out who was born this time around, it seems irrelevant to seek earlier identities. I have heard many people speak of who they believe they were in previous incarnations, but they seem to have very little idea of who they are in this one. . . . Let’s take one life at a time. Perhaps the best way to do that is to live as though there were no afterlife or reincarnation. To live as though this moment was all that was allotted."

-- Stephen Levine

Edited June 20, 2013 by boosta

[David48]

... twas only last week you were a twinkle in someone's eye ... how you have grown since ...

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man."

-- Heraclitus of Ephesus

John the Baptist may have disagreed ...

Baptism was to put a line of demarcation between your past sins when you are buried with Him by Baptism-

-you are burying your past sins-

-eradicating them-

-putting a line in the sand saying that old man is dead and he is no longer alive any more and I rise up to walk in the newness of life.

Arise now ... you are a new man ... go forth and post.

.

[SCARLETIBIS1]

... twas only last week you were a twinkle in someone's eye ... how you have grown since ...

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man."

-- Heraclitus of Ephesus

John the Baptist may have disagreed ...

Baptism was to put a line of demarcation between your past sins when you are buried with Him by Baptism-

-you are burying your past sins-

-eradicating them-

-putting a line in the sand saying that old man is dead and he is no longer alive any more and I rise up to walk in the newness of life.

Arise now ... you are a new man ... go forth and post.

.

Wow, I didn't know they had color film back then. Another miracle I guess. LOL

[boosta]

Arise now ... you are a new man ... go forth and post.

Ran out of likes again - that was fast!

Think I'd prefer trying Buddhism or even Sufi above being a born-again Christian. Nothing against those that believe of course, but reminds me too much of what I hate and fear most about America.

[David48]

Arise now ... you are a new man ... go forth and post.

Ran out of likes again - that was fast!

I try ...

Further ... I did contemplate ...

[jcnbkk]

Most likely I'm generalizing too much but here goes.

Western society these days views "living together" sexual relationships as the norm for younger people, and people will have a lot of such before deciding to settle down and get married, usually much later than here.

In upcountry villages a boy simply touching or kissing a girl will usually be considered a violation of her and an offense against her family, punishable by a fine paid by the boy's family to the girls, using a formula based on her sin sot value as opposed to the severity of the transgression. In the case of full sex, consensual or not is irrelevant, the male will owe the full sin sot penalty, and often there will be pressure on both to marry each other, whether they want to or not is irrelevant.

Obviously many more modern urban Thais no longer think this way, but the underlying cultural perceptions and assumptions remain, not that far off from Muslim ideas from our POV.

Therefore most Thais if they even accepted the idea of pre-marital sex, would see such a relationship as a courting process that "should" lead to marriage. By living with her and then breaking it off without a good reason - she hasn't done anything wrong - many Thais would judge that you have "used" or "exploited" her unfairly, taken advantage of her even deceived her.

Unfortunately there really isn't any way to talk your way out of or through this predicament, you need to take a practical POV as to how to get out with your possessions and yourself intact. If you can do so without hurting her further, do your best but do protect yourself, don't expect calm and rational behavior.

And, take it as a compliment.

PS some may interpret this stuff as a scheming scammer trying to use manipulative emotional games and violence to try to get her way, or just being a psycho bitch or whatever. Understand that may well be the case, but it can also simply be a strong reaction to genuine emotions, don't let her behavior at this stage of the relationship cause you to question your view of her back when everything was OK, she may seem like a completely different person now, but the girl you had feelings for is still in there somewhere.

And don't feel too guilty, she'll be fine.

You forgot to mention that it is usually the males parents who pays, and that money ultimately comes from the daughters working in Bkk

[thelongshoot]

This is why many of us cringe when guys say they want to sleep around with “good girls” instead of renting. You said it yourself, this is not New York, with rules and expectations being very different here. Personally I think she is right about you.

By manipulating her into sleeping with you, it should have been clear to you what you were doing. In some circles, having a farang boyfriend and being dumped can affect the way friends and family look at her.

You complain that she isn’t looking at things from your perspective but why would you expect a girl to look at things like a guy? Reread the first part of Boosta’s post. You are getting off easy

Wow, just wow. Who is sleeping around? I'm monogamous -- end of that discussion. I date "good girls" because I'm a decent, hard working guy. That you were inclined to use the P4P scene prior to getting married was your prerogative, but it's not mine.

So I manipulated her, did I? That is nonsense. I started out with sincere intentions. She is 29, a grown woman. We met, liked each other, got to know one another, and there were quite a few bumps in the road. Don't feel obliged to marry her, if that offends your sensibilities, so be it.

"In some circles, having a farang boyfriend and being dumped can affect the way friends and family look at her."

I'm sure that's true. But in some circles back home, particularly those involving my family, giving up on my career aspirations because I've had a Thai girlfriend for a few months could affect the way people look at me too.

You complain that she isn’t looking at things from your perspective but why would you expect a girl to look at things like a guy?

This isn't about a guy's versus a girl's perspective. My perspective is the same as hers -- happiness in one's career is of the utmost importance. There's just a double standard present when it applies to me.

There is so much wrong with what you wrote

Dont take Villageferangs advice to heart. The clue is in the name..... he lives in a remote Northern village as he believes he is superior to most ferangs and would prefer to live as far away as possible. Im not flaming here - this is my genuine opinion. Time and time again I see this guy leaping on someone for living in Thailand and neglecting to live like a respectable middle class Thai.

You have done nothing wrong here my friend. As far as I see things, you have simply embarked in a relationship with a lady that you are fond of. You didnt marry her. You dont even live together. There is nothing permanent here and you have every right to break of this relationship to further you education.

Villageferang seems to be suggesting that her initial caution in the relationship demonstrated lifelong commitment was on her mind. it may have been. But unless that was discussed and you commited, which you didnt, then you have done nothing wrong.

You are a westerner with western values. Respect the local values and culture, sure. But there are no ethical laws that say you must adhere to them yourself.

[jcnbkk]

I've known her less than ten months, the majority of that time spent as "friends" because she was unsure and kept me at a distance. In essence, it felt like I was her dirty little secret for a time, and it wore on me a lot.

It's not unusual for women in Thailand to kept a relationship low profile in the beginning, particularly when no significant commitment has been made. The stigma of "spoiled goods" is still very strong for many women here who made a previous relationship known.

That holds true with the family, even if they know, un admittedly, that she was selling sex before the relationship. And I do think it goes deeper than just the past or potential money and time lost.

[sonar6ca]

You are 33? grow-up and smell the coffee.

[rene123]

Yes, I know. We spoke a lot this evening. Sorry guys, I don't have all the answers right now. I'm trying to do right by her and myself. Indeed, she wants to get married. Maybe not now, but she wants to be with the guy who's going to marry her. And I want a stable career, so that when I wake in the morning I don't cringe at the thought of going to work.

Things are quite calm this evening, and we're trying to speak rationally to one another. That's all for now. Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all the interest I've received here. Bye for now.

That is pretty much what I would expect of a relationship that has too many long term pitfalls in the way. Not everyone is cut out for living in a foreign county that has a completely different culture and language. It is hard enough living with someone when everything is the same. I know it is tough when you are attracted to someone but everything else is too complicated to make it work. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and leave. That way nobody gets hurt big time in the long run. Think how difficult it would be if you got married, had a child and then split up.

[Cheapcharly]

take it easy Op.

go to usa, study, get a tourist visa for her to Come to see you.

when you go to thailand, stay with her.

but you must explain her this is how you want live now. you want keep relation simple... you have to study,... whatever.

I m myself in a relation and I go frequently to usa and Europe. she understand. she is nice with me. and accept me they way I am.

she makes her own money and I help her a little when I m with her.

she know marriage, babies, it s lot of complication, and she doesn't want babies anyway...

keep in mind you will not make any money in the usa, you live much better in Thailand. better for you to look for a thai job than in usa by having 3 jobs to survive when Obama scare will start in 2014.

just be nice with her... thai ladies are much better than farang women.

if she want babies and you don't want any... leave her, run away... ! she want you for a baby... she doesn't care about you... she just need a spermatozoïde ...

[ajarnpot]

I see two possible endings, one a story in BP with penis cut of in night

two another farang tries to fly from high balcony above thrid floor

[Ricky Koh Samui]

You have asked a logical question and you deserve a logical answer. You both have obviously established feelings for each other and both shared nice experiences along the way and at times things simply some to an end or situations change. You need to follow your life path while you can and Do Not let anyone stop you from furthering your career ie. How many men and women sacrifice things for others only to break up later and realise 'you should have done it while you could' ?

You shouldn't be made to feel guilty at all and based upon what you have said, you really do not owe your Thai lady friend anything as you are not married, you do not have children etc...

If you want to go back to the US, then go as you can always return to Thailand later if you want? The option to take her with you needs to be thought out very carefully as there is a lot of time and money involved as well as cultural differences and she will need lots of looking after as well not too mention money back to the family because she aint working etc.....

You have two choices if you decide to go, talk to her and advise what you want to do and suggest she may be able to come over later once you have settled back in and if she really gest out of control, then you need to go to work one day and dont come back and get a plane out as Thais can be rather unpredictable as others on here have said with regards to brothers, relatives etc...

[David48]

Rick from Australia ... welcome to Thai Visa ...

You've picked a popular topic for your first post.

Some great advice there ... I gave you your first like!

Great first post ...

.

[villagefarang]

Dont take Villageferangs advice to heart. The clue is in the name..... he lives in a remote Northern village as he believes he is superior to most ferangs and would prefer to live as far away as possible. Im not flaming here - this is my genuine opinion. Time and time again I see this guy leaping on someone for living in Thailand and neglecting to live like a respectable middle class Thai.

You have done nothing wrong here my friend. As far as I see things, you have simply embarked in a relationship with a lady that you are fond of. You didnt marry her. You dont even live together. There is nothing permanent here and you have every right to break of this relationship to further you education.

Villageferang seems to be suggesting that her initial caution in the relationship demonstrated lifelong commitment was on her mind. it may have been. But unless that was discussed and you commited, which you didnt, then you have done nothing wrong.

You are a westerner with western values. Respect the local values and culture, sure. But there are no ethical laws that say you must adhere to them yourself.

When I get all uppity and respectable, it helps for someone to come along and call me on it. I really hate it when I get that way. Thanks also for trying to make this topic about me as I truly hate it when I am not the center of attention. As for why I retired to the country after 30 years in Bangkok, well you believe what you want.

On Topic:

In his effort to win the affections of this young lady there is no telling what he may have said or done. We simply don’t know. Still it sounds like he was the one perusing her, not the other way around. I sure would like to get her side of the story.

I agree that it is a lost cause at this point and he should leave but I see the whole thing as a problem of his own making and he has no right to be blaming her for feeling betrayed. Sure she was not too smart to give in to his advances but maybe he was very persistent and wore her down. Anyway, he made his bed as it were, and it is now time for damage control.

Edited June 21, 2013 by villagefarang

[louse1953]

She is losing her cash cow, she has now pulled the falang card on you and is acting in the typical thai childish way when they dont win the game. Now for you it is time to play the thai game and do what they do, lie and tell stories to fit the situation to avoid any confrontation and put all the blame on you bad falang.. Thais are all children mentally. Tell her what it takes to keep her off your back and make your plans to go home and take care of yourself because trust me no thai will ever care about you or your future falang only themselves.

Spot on mate,they get their morals from tv soap operas.Study the male lead and you know how to handle it thai style.Keep the farang locked up for a while.

[blazes]

[asupeartea]

She is trying to get me to change schools. She says there are Thai schools of good quality, and that it isn't necessary to work at an international school in order to have a stable work environment. I am considering this option.

-

NO. I can't imagine what podunk degree mill in the west would be as bad as even the most prestigious Thai university for credibility in the international education and corporate marketplace, your education would be viewed as suspect for the rest of your life.

And as bad as some of the International Schools are (especially the many dozen "so called" ones) for negative work environment, absolutely no Thai-run school will be bearable for you professionally afterwards.

Since your goal for returning to the US is to further your education for a more stable postion, I think you ought to know some of the cold, hard facts about education here.

I don't know how bad Thai "International" schools are, but top Thai secondary schools and universities mickey mouse attitude towards education will not be a good fit if you have true academics in mind. Elite entrance requirements are "flexible" for the monied or connected/powerful families. Two of three schools (1 uni & 1 secondary), in an effort to "maintain their elite status(es)", have created different tracks/programs for the ones not truly qualified to be there.

Then, there is the corruption in the schools. Students from "good" families get upward bumps in their grades and are NEVER allowed to fail while others might actually suffer reductions in their grades in an effort to "maintain the school's elite status."

You will never have a permanent job in Thai schools. You will have annual or, at best, bi-annual contracts for your entire career here, thus you must mind you office politics well.

To quote a former colleague, "Thailand is not a place where you can be a REAL teacher."

Edited June 21, 2013 by asupeartea

[stickylies]

thai ladies are much better than farang women.

suffering from ingrown toenails, are we ?