Breaking Up in Thailand

[SinglePot]

Back to the beginning before we and the OP get confused.

'I've known her less than ten months, the majority of that time spent as "friends" because she was unsure and kept me at a distance. In essence, it felt like I was her dirty little secret for a time, and it wore on me a lot. I never lost my interest totally, but now that she's come around, part of me feels it's too little too late, given my career aspirations.

She is ambitious herself, career advancement is everything to her. She already has a masters, and also talks of perhaps going back to school.....'

8 months is a long courtship in any country. Career orientated Thai woman who took a long time to 'come around'...?

Sounds like this relationship was not right from the beginning.

[SinglePot]

'She is ambitious herself, career advancement is everything to her.'

What's her relationship history OP?

Just asking.

[spidermike007]

I don't fully understand myself at the moment, either, so I came here for a chat.

I've tried to talk things out with her calmly and rationally, suggested that we could perhaps try and make it work from afar. When progress seems to have been made, she'll have a mood swing and start in with another guilt trip. Frankly, since I've met her, it's always been all about her. This is just another example of how she seems incapable of putting my needs parallel to her own. On paper she is a great catch on many levels, but when she doesn't get her way, her reasoning becomes like that of a spoiled brat.

-

IMO rational conversation just doesn't work, you might as well be trying to speak an outer Mongolian dialect.

But if you can find a way that helps her keep her dignity, maybe even bring her to believe it's best for her or even her own decision, great.

Just don't think she won't still do her best to punish you for your "crimes", if you get off easy without doing a midnight flit do please come back and post because I haven't come across that more than 1 out of a thousand.

I have come to the conclusion, that unless she is the oldest child in the family, more than likely she has the emotional development of a 15 year old. So, it may be too much to expect her to behave like an adult, when things are not going her way. Many just revert to the 15 year old behavior of a petulant child, who is being thwarted. Sometimes, you just have to make your move, and that is it. If you can reason with her ok. But remember, this is your life, not hers. You have to do, what you have to do. Be determined. Be unwavering in your quest for a good life. Be kind, be gentle, but be willful, and unwavering. Be a man.

[krabimike]

Marry her, give up your career goals, have a baby or 2! Chances are 10 years from now you will be living in Thai broke dating with 2 half Thai children. Most of the time, not all but the thai family will be in control.

Go get what you need to weather life's financial battle. Stay in touch, take a vacation, have her come visit! Stay friends. If she finds another so be it! Same for you! But one day when you feel in control and in the drivers seat of your financial world. Come back. Maybe she still available. But whatever you do don't let the whole Thai condemnation of her losing face or you are the bad guy bother you!! They use it against farang like a weapon! Nobody wants to lose face! Thai use it to cover up that their culture has fractured double standards. As many cultures! If she is educated and chasing a good career she is far ahead of the multitude, she will be fine! Maybe even better off if she marry's her own kind! But good luck!

[SinglePot]

Or maybe just tell her you need a bit of space and are spending some time with a few bargirls whose motives are clear.

After you have secured your material assets of course.

[joeaverage]

Anyone else inclined to share a bit of their own break up history, or is this just gonna keep getting slung back at me?

I never really had any big breakup problems because I made it clear that I was not “that guy.” I was the guy one would hangout with until one met “that guy.” Usually our relationships were kept secret for the sake of the girl’s reputation. That worked well through my 20s and 30s but I could see the writing on the wall and eventually settled down in my mid 40s.

Do her a favor and stop waisting her time. Girls usually have a shorter shelf life than we do so I always considered it is unfair to take their best years from them and limit their future options. Things have no doubt changed since my days as a single guy but that is my story.

this still woks for me, in 15 years never had a problem, and relationships tend to fizzle out rather than come to a screeching conclusion.

It helps that the only woman i moved in here was the mother of my child. We called it quits after about 6 years together, though we only lived together about 3.

we are still tight, but the moving out process was insanely hectic because she was unable to admit it was what we both wanted and we had to fight like cats and dogs for form sake, much like gooeng described above.

i have never understood the folks i know here who move in woman after woman, anything it seems to avoid living alone.

I have always liked alone, and continue to do so rather than moving someone in just 'cause i can.

Regarding the OPs situation, beyond all the mutual recriminations and other bullshit, relationships end, the reasons are irrelevant and apportioning blame is pointless.

if it is time to move on, just move on and deal with the fallout or you are only delaying the inevitable.

[boosta]

I don't know how bad Thai "International" schools are

. . .

You will never have a permanent job in Thai schools. You will have annual or, at best, bi-annual contracts for your entire career here, thus you must mind you office politics well.

-

That last bit is the only thing in your list that pertains to true International Schools.

Some, even among the best - which recruit 90% direct from the home country paying airfares etc - have a deliberate policy of rotating staff, very few "make the grade" to be retained for more than say 5-6 years.

Possible reasons for this

Preference for the enthusiasm (naïveté) of youth, injection of the latest trendy pedagogical methods

Keeping their hold on absolute power by getting rid of those with seniority

Suspicion of the reasons behind the desire for people to stay in Thailand

The contract policy of an annual cost of living increases is compounded, effectively guaranteeing a 20-30% raise over say six years - therefore eliminating the senior teachers is required to keep the salary bill under control.

Note this is perfectly normal in the international schools' circuit, and for those dedicated to that environment for a career, regularly relocating is actually the best path to advancement, the ultimate goal of course being a headship.

Some heads don't make their individual contract renewal decisions based on anything to do with quality of work but mainly to get rid of those they see as "troublemakers", usually those that have dared to speak up opposing their decisions, i.e. "office politics", which is of course pretty inevitable in any organization.

Those who want to stay need to continually volunteer for extra responsibilities, sometimes with a token financial reward but often not, and of course be a total "yes" man with regard to the SMT's decisions, or at least shut up keep your head down and do your work.

Very few schools anywhere in the world have a collegial atmosphere where peers are encouraged to speak up and make suggestions for improvement, challenging the status quo, as corporate culture in more competitive industries require to be successful.

[PoorSucker]

Link to external blog removed.

[amykat]

She was proposed to two weeks ago by the (wealthy) brother of one of her close friends. My point is I've wasted none of her precious time. She has never stopped entertaining potential suitors. (She is a beauty, truly, by standards Thai or western.)

-

Did the suitor know she'd been sleeping with you?

Of course not.

I understand your reply will be he surely wouldn't want anything to do with her now that he knows about me, but that isn't true. He's loved her for years. Thais are regular people, like us they can't help who they fall in love with.

Sorry, I haven't gotten to the end of this topic yet, working on it ...but I just want to comment on this one.

It seems that I have heard this story, or versions of it, so many, many, many times here ...the "somebody else wants to marry me" ...oh, and don't forget in these cases ...the other person, is always "wealthy, or more wealthy" than you.

Since many of us seem to agree that Thai people often lie, about any and all things, do you guys never see that these comments are most likely lies?? Part of closing the deal, making you jealous, making the person/woman seem more valuable (because someone else, who is rich! wants to marry them), making you possibly also think "oh, she doesn't just want money because someone richer than me offered to marry her and she stuck with me." Not that I am saying that all these ladies only want you for money.

I mean, the very quantity of these claims, always included with the fact that the woman is currently "seriously" involved with you ...I don't know, have any of you guys proposed marriage to ladies who were living with other men at the time, is that very common? I think it is not. I know everyone isn't living together, but still?

I have to say, that I wish I could have read about Thai ladies and their ways when I was much younger! I might have learned some valuable lessons. Or I still might, if I decide to become a car salesperson or something. I really would have thought, that admitting (lie or not) that I was involved enough with another man, that he proposed to me, would have sent my Western male partners over the edge, and that I would be dumped as a cheating, whore. But it seems it doesn't work that way at all!! I never would have guessed this!!

[amykat]

I know of many similar stories to the OP's. There is no right or wrong answer. The same happens with women from other countries coming a living/studying in the west for a few years before moving back home.

I would disregard her verbal insults etc, this is just her thinking emotionally and lashing out - thats what women do. If she thinks calmly, logically and rationally she would probably agree with you but you can't rely upon a woman to do that no offense intended.

.

Please see the word "people" in place of "women" and then we can agree. Some PEOPLE do this. As a woman, I have been on the receiving end of the same, delivered by MEN.

This might surprise you, but ALL MEN, are not totally logical and rational. In fact, the percentages of who are, and who are not, may be equal, or maybe men could be less rational and logical ...it is possible, especially considering your particular weakness towards sex?? Or is that a generalization that isn't true? I don't know.

Edited June 21, 2013 by amykat

[amykat]

Also, there are not many available men in Thailand so if a woman gets a man she wants to keep him.

In Thailand, the demograhics I looked up, if correct, are:

At birth, there are 1.05 males/females

At 15-64 years, there are .98 males/females

If many Thai men, have more than one lover, more than one wife, or some combo, plus there are some amount of foreigners coming here for women, how would that make a shortage of men for Thai women???

I think it might be quite the opposite.

[amykat]

He works on an oilrig

-

You've got a very different definition of a wealthy guy than most, especially Thais.

Agree. When he said "wealthy," I assumed wealthy family, own business, etc., i.e., every Thai girl's wet dream. Rich Thai dudes don't work on oil rigs unless their family owns it.

Seems wealthy enough to me. Good family, the guy helps support his younger sister who's living in NYC.

OR, his sister, living in NYC, helps support the family or him! Please keep in mind, the LIES. As far as I know, EVERY Thai person, is only working to "support someone else in their family" never working to support themselves. It seems to be a standard line as far as I can tell. I think it is mostly a communication difference ...if you meet "ABC man" in the US, he may have a wife and children, and obviously has/had parents, but he will never say "I'm only working this job so that I can support these various people." He will just work and not say anything about it.

I mean, really, can you imagine meeting Western people, who tell you as a matter of course, that they are working for "other people" in their family? Some of us support "other people" obviously, but we don't feel the need to state that. I guess it is normally assumed that we support at least our kids, maybe our spouse to some extent or totally, and many of us do help out parents in later life. But for some reason, every Thai person I have met, is only working "for other people." They are so generous here, why aren't we all the same?

[ozzieovaseas]

Anyone else inclined to share a bit of their own break up history, or is this just gonna keep getting slung back at me?

Well since you asked...

When you break up with a Thai girl it is ALL your fault. Thats the way it always will be, especially since you are the farang.

You get ALL the blame.No amount of logic or reasoning will ever lead them to consider the guys viewpoint nor will they ever consider that THEY might have had some contribution in it going south.

Of all the breakups ive had, none were without SERIOUS dramas. Every one of them absolutely over the top,stupid and immature behaviour and even violence.

If you persist with dating them its best to do it the Thai way and LIE..and if your ever in doubt, LIE AGAIN!! I would never of agreed with this once but after my experiences...

In your situation you've already started the ball rolling so there is not much to be done now but leave.

But for the future, in this particular situation i would have said...

DON'T say anything about any of your plans until the last minute. Then tell her someone in your family is gravely ill and you need to go home but only for a short time.

After each month passes you just re-adjust the lie. Yes its a tad devious, but a jilted Thai GF will do A LOT worse to you and think nothing of it

[SinglePot]

Its going to hurt.

Her (jealous) Thai friends warned her. They told her he was a 'typical farang' and would bale out on her, when the heat came on. Everyone talks about the lying Thai Bar Girls, very few are willing to recognise that farangs, 'trippers'' which the OP seems to be, are just as bloody bad in many cases. The door swings both ways.

No, the OP wasn't going to stoop for a lowly Isaan Bar Girl that he had to pay for and support. He wanted it all. Then after he got it, he realised he never wanted it in the first place.

The options for the modern, well educated, good thai girl are not as great as they are for, say, egalitarian Australians. The better the education, the better the job, the higher the salary, the better the family, narrows the field for Thai women. They cannot marry a thai man 'beneath' them. Is perhaps why so many modern (Bangkokian) thai women are opting to stay single and independant.

At 29, the average Thai female knows her 'clock' is ticking, especially her biological one.

She will be devastated. She has 'wasted' a very important year of her life. She has humiliated herself in front of her, I told you so, friends. Who knows what other 'options' she may have had before the OP came on the scene. Those 'options' would now well and truly have turned their back on her. She is now damaged goods.

"Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned"

{He} has 'wasted' a very important year of her life.

I did no such thing. I was a secret the majority of the time. You think she wasn't talking to other men?

She was proposed to two weeks ago by the (wealthy) brother of one of her close friends. My point is I've wasted none of her precious time. She has never stopped entertaining potential suitors. (She is a beauty, truly, by standards Thai or western.)

I missed this little gem.

To be honest, I'm struggling with so many pages of content.

Gut feel suggests you should walk. As fast as you can with no guilt.

Your relationship with her from the start, her motives, her reaction to you wanting to pursue your life.

She sounds dangerous.

[cpofc]

I am still trying to work out whether it's Doctor Phil, or Jerry Springer, we need here.

I would like not to go back through 14 pages of posts, so could anyone tell me, off the top of their head, if the subject of 'Love' has come up in this thread at any time?

I recall an old tagalog song in the PI back in the late 70's, about the time when the first Mail Order Bride Businesses went into operation. 'Bar Girls Fall In Love To'. (or something very similar) it was a No 1 hit. I think by the early 80s they had one of the highest suicide rates in the world.

All Men are NOT rational nor logical? The Germans have an old saying for this.

'When the penis goes hard, the brain goes soft'.

The question is, would lying be the Logical and Rational thing to do?

[amykat]

I've recently just come out of a 3 year relationship with a thai girl, 28yrs old office worker lower middle class and a real stunner. I don't think i'd ever entertain doing it again.

I never married or got engaged to her, i wanted to, but there were just too many red flags popping along the way for me to take the plunge.

I'm 36 by the way and never had a problem attracting hot women in the west so i wasn't really operating out of my league and with lots of disposable income to burn.

She could have had it all from me visa, marriage into a fairly affluent western family, everything she said that she wanted in life, but she couldn't hold it together for more than 6 months. Unsurprisingly it was all my fault.

After stepping back from the situation and accessing the last 3 years its been one compromise after the other with her. trying to pass off lies and lack of respect as culture is just making excuses for them.

I dont just mean her, i'd say 99% of Thais from all backgrounds that I've met are selfish, self centered people with very little to offer a reasonably smart educated westerner in friendship or in relationships.

Personally i would chose a average looking western women over a hot Thai any day.

I think you deserve many, many "LIKES" for this post. I am worried I am going to run out, as I have agreed with many here, tonight. But we can't give more than one anyway, damn it!

So, here is my +5 LIKES!

[benalibina]

Anyone else inclined to share a bit of their own break up history, or is this just gonna keep getting slung back at me?

Well since you asked... When you break up with a Thai girl it is ALL your fault. Thats the way it always will be, especially since you are the farang. You get ALL the blame.No amount of logic or reasoning will ever lead them to consider the guys viewpoint nor will they ever consider that THEY might have had some contribution in it going south. Of all the breakups ive had, none were without SERIOUS dramas. Every one of them absolutely over the top,stupid and immature behaviour and even violence. If you persist with dating them its best to do it the Thai way and LIE..and if your ever in doubt, LIE AGAIN!! I would never of agreed with this once but after my experiences... In your situation you've already started the ball rolling so there is not much to be done now but leave. But for the future, in this particular situation i would have said... DON'T say anything about any of your plans until the last minute. Then tell her someone in your family is gravely ill and you need to go home but only for a short time. After each month passes you just re-adjust the lie. Yes its a tad devious, but a jilted Thai GF will do A LOT worse to you and think nothing of it

Sad statement you make but not far from the truth. Its a shambles !

[boosta]

She was proposed to two weeks ago by the (wealthy) brother of one of her close friends. My point is I've wasted none of her precious time. She has never stopped entertaining potential suitors. (She is a beauty, truly, by standards Thai or western.)

-

Did the suitor know she'd been sleeping with you?

Of course not.

I understand your reply will be he surely wouldn't want anything to do with her now that he knows about me, but that isn't true. He's loved her for years. Thais are regular people, like us they can't help who they fall in love with.

Sorry, I haven't gotten to the end of this topic yet, working on it ...but I just want to comment on this one.

It seems that I have heard this story, or versions of it, so many, many, many times here ...the "somebody else wants to marry me" ...oh, and don't forget in these cases ...the other person, is always "wealthy, or more wealthy" than you.

Since many of us seem to agree that Thai people often lie, about any and all things, do you guys never see that these comments are most likely lies?? Part of closing the deal, making you jealous, making the person/woman seem more valuable (because someone else, who is rich! wants to marry them), making you possibly also think "oh, she doesn't just want money because someone richer than me offered to marry her and she stuck with me." Not that I am saying that all these ladies only want you for money.

I mean, the very quantity of these claims, always included with the fact that the woman is currently "seriously" involved with you ...I don't know, have any of you guys proposed marriage to ladies who were living with other men at the time, is that very common? I think it is not. I know everyone isn't living together, but still?

I have to say, that I wish I could have read about Thai ladies and their ways when I was much younger! I might have learned some valuable lessons. Or I still might, if I decide to become a car salesperson or something. I really would have thought, that admitting (lie or not) that I was involved enough with another man, that he proposed to me, would have sent my Western male partners over the edge, and that I would be dumped as a cheating, whore. But it seems it doesn't work that way at all!! I never would have guessed this!!

-

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying or asking here.

Putting aside Thai vs western cultural stuff for now, I think the issue is common for both.

It is rarely the case IMO that a man is out there actively pursuing the courtship racket looking for a wife. He's usually out having fun living his life and a big part of that is pursuing attractive females for sex and companionship, but getting married is something far from the forefront of most single guys minds.

However it is in my experience pretty common, both where I come from and here, for women to reach a certain stage where they feel it's time to settle down and get married and make a family. The clock is certainly ticking here sooner and with more urgency, but usually by the time a woman back home gets into her thirties, certainly long before forty, she's out there in the marriage market.

And most women will arrange things so they have multiple guys "pursuing them" at the same time, because these things take time and if you were do do this serially, you'd be wasting a lot of precious time, so you engage with the market in parallel. If a given potential partner is very very attractive but hasn't yet popped the question, you may well dither and dally with other keener but less attractive partners, putting them off in the hope that you can close the deal with your first choice.

Although this pattern is very common and totally accepted in my home culture, I find that Thai ladies have this game down to a real science, play it like their life's at stake, which I suppose it is. And while back home a guy may be perhaps a bit more likely to know about his competitors, or at least know that he has competition (part of the game), here I think girls try more to let the guy think he's the one and only prospect.

Some westerners consider this dishonest and immoral, but I completely accept it as the way things are, and think completely fair enough from the girls' POV.

Where the two cultures really differ is that ours considers it to be completely OK if the woman is sexually active with more than one suitor at a time, while here that's a real no-no, in theory any premarital sex is frowned upon, in reality most Thais will be OK as long as it's only one and there is a serious intention is to get married (talking here about publicly acknowledged mainstream, not what's actually done in secret).

Amykat, is any of the above in conflict with your view of things? Does it clarify the situation or just make it even more complicated?

[boosta]

Also, there are not many available men in Thailand so if a woman gets a man she wants to keep him.

In Thailand, the demograhics I looked up, if correct, are:

At birth, there are 1.05 males/females

At 15-64 years, there are .98 males/females

If many Thai men, have more than one lover, more than one wife, or some combo, plus there are some amount of foreigners coming here for women, how would that make a shortage of men for Thai women???

I think it might be quite the opposite.

-

None of this has anything to do with who's having sex with how many partners, just the marriage market.

The problem is that out of kids going to school and then going to university and then graduating and pursuing professional careers, the vast majority of those who get all the way through that process in Thailand, excluding the upper classes but in the upwardly mobile growing middle classes, are WOMEN.

A woman working as say an accountant for a bank isn't willing or able to marry a motorcycle taxi driver or mechanic.

Plus I think it's very likely that there are a higher percentage of gay guys openly pursuing that lifestyle here than women (and perhaps higher than in the west as well).

So there just aren't enough men AT HER LEVEL to go around.

[benalibina]

What you miss is the fact that we have been educated and learnt, in general, to understand somebody else's point of view. In this case the difference between 2 cultures. In general in relationships with thai women it does not work, or very difficult, the other way around. Lack of empathy, ignorance, unwillingness to think beyond their comfortzone, emotional inbalance and role of women in society makes it, in general a 1 way stream. That is why in case of problems in a relationship their reactions, verbally and fysically go to the extremes. Primal behaviour.

I forgot selfishness, reason and the acceptance of own wrongdoing ( loosing face ).

Edited June 21, 2013 by benalibina

[SinglePot]

Message for the OP.

She has had much more attention than she deserves.

14 pages of torture on TV. Who knows what happened in the past or what will happen to her in the future.

Good night.

[boosta]

OR, his sister, living in NYC, helps support the family or him! Please keep in mind, the LIES. As far as I know, EVERY Thai person, is only working to "support someone else in their family" never working to support themselves. It seems to be a standard line as far as I can tell. I think it is mostly a communication difference ...if you meet "ABC man" in the US, he may have a wife and children, and obviously has/had parents, but he will never say "I'm only working this job so that I can support these various people." He will just work and not say anything about it.

I mean, really, can you imagine meeting Western people, who tell you as a matter of course, that they are working for "other people" in their family? Some of us support "other people" obviously, but we don't feel the need to state that. I guess it is normally assumed that we support at least our kids, maybe our spouse to some extent or totally, and many of us do help out parents in later life. But for some reason, every Thai person I have met, is only working "for other people." They are so generous here, why aren't we all the same?

The Thai idea of the family unit to be much larger and stronger. Common Thais (dirt poor by our standards) don't have pensions or unemployment insurance or other formal support networks, they rely on each other and take those obligations very seriously.

The older parents may be making a little money, but all adult children are sending money home.

I've personally known hundreds of families where a younger sister is the ONLY breadwinner for more than six dependents back on the rice farm. Not falling for stories, personally known to me, verified in reality over time.

Very often a family will choose only one out of the four kids to continue with school past 12 years old, the others work the farm, get sent to the city to be servants or whatever, and everyone chips in so that one person can have a chance for reaching a decent profession like nurse or policeman. Once that person gets to that stage, they spend their life paying everyone back.

It may well be true that TGs tell a lot of lies to their farang BF/sponsors, but this is one area where it's usually true.

[amykat]

its just my opinion.

-

No the point was you should find ways to improve the quality of the Thais you meet and stop overgeneralizing as if that select group was representative of the whole population.

Higher proportions of the type you describe congregate in farang-infested areas. Get out of those places, learn Thai well enough and most importantly improve your attitudes towards them and you'll meet an entirely different set of very wonderful people.

I've mingled with with Thais from all backgrounds, maybe not hi-so but certainly educated ones and have always treated them with respect, as i do most people i meet regardless of nationality or class.

The cultural traits in the middle class are still the same, the packaging may be different but underneath it all and behind the smiles they're nearly all as selfish and self centered as each other.

I wouldn't take the risk of introducing one into my family, but like i said thats just my opinion from a fairly limited experience of Thais, I'm certainly not as seasoned as some of the veterans on here, so maybe my opinion isn't worth that much.

But after 3 years i'll trust my own judgment with what i've known and seen with my own eyes.

We live and learn.

I have to say I agree with RogueTrader here, and Boosta, although I often agree with you ...not here, sorry. You, Boosta, might get out more than the average farang ...teaching in various schools, living in BKK, going out to the depths of the countryside to look for your next "staff members" or whatever.

Many farangs here meet a limited group of people, for sure, but we can't meet all of Thailand. Maybe some who only live in places like Pattaya and only, mostly meet BGs, or people working in this world, can be considered responsible for these limited views, but many of us who are trying to live normal lives, still can only meet a limited amount and type of people.

This result, of this poster, is a common view of many of us living here, no matter where we live, country or big city, no matter what "class" of people we date, etc. I think this can't be just an accident.

(I think I might be the only person who is still reading/responding to this thread, and it looks like I am taking it over ...sorry for that, I am just late to the party.)

[benalibina]

its just my opinion.

-No the point was you should find ways to improve the quality of the Thais you meet and stop overgeneralizing as if that select group was representative of the whole population.Higher proportions of the type you describe congregate in farang-infested areas. Get out of those places, learn Thai well enough and most importantly improve your attitudes towards them and you'll meet an entirely different set of very wonderful people.

I've mingled with with Thais from all backgrounds, maybe not hi-so but certainly educated ones and have always treated them with respect, as i do most people i meet regardless of nationality or class.The cultural traits in the middle class are still the same, the packaging may be different but underneath it all and behind the smiles they're nearly all as selfish and self centered as each other.I wouldn't take the risk of introducing one into my family, but like i said thats just my opinion from a fairly limited experience of Thais, I'm certainly not as seasoned as some of the veterans on here, so maybe my opinion isn't worth that much.But after 3 years i'll trust my own judgment with what i've known and seen with my own eyes. We live and learn.

I have to say I agree with RogueTrader here, and Boosta, although I often agree with you ...not here, sorry. You, Boosta, might get out more than the average farang ...teaching in various schools, living in BKK, going out to the depths of the countryside to look for your next "staff members" or whatever. Many farangs here meet a limited group of people, for sure, but we can't meet all of Thailand. Maybe some who only live in places like Pattaya and only, mostly meet BGs, or people working in this world, can be considered responsible for these limited views, but many of us who are trying to live normal lives, still can only meet a limited amount and type of people. This result, of this poster, is a common view of many of us living here, no matter where we live, country or big city, no matter what "class" of people we date, etc. I think this can't be just an accident. (I think I might be the only person who is still reading/responding to this thread, and it looks like I am taking it over ...sorry for that, I am just late to the party.)

Better late than never !

[SinglePot]

round and round in bloo** circles

[benalibina]

round and round in bloo** circles

Good night !

[boosta]

I completely agree that the statement "most Thais that farang encounter here aren't as sincere, honest and kind to strangers as people back home" is perfectly true.

I am also saying that the statement "most Thais are just as sincere, honest and kind to strangers as people back home" is true as well.

And I am suggesting, to those who are committed to staying in Thailand, that there are solutions to this gap, if you have the resources to pursue them.

No difference in our realities then is there? Just a question of whether or not it's worth your while to invest the time energy money etc to solve the problem. Many farang think it's not worth the trouble to learn the language, move to areas where few other farang live, get to know people with whom they feel they don't have anything in common etc. and that's a perfectly acceptable POV.

The price for that is you will continue to experience a sub-optimal reality in Thailand as a result

Or you may choose to go someplace completely different, lots of choices, we make our bed and then we sleeps in it.

Edited June 21, 2013 by boosta

[boosta]

round and round in bloo** circles

????

Maybe this?

[benalibina]

I'm completely agree that the statement "most Thais that farang encounter here aren't as sincere, honest and kind to strangers as people back home" is perfectly true.I am also saying that the statement "most Thais are just as sincere, honest and kind to strangers as people back home" is true as well.And I am suggesting, to those who are committed to staying in Thailand, that there are solutions to this gap, if you have the resources to pursue them.No difference in our realities then is there? Just a question of whether or not it's worth your while to invest the time energy money etc to solve the problem. Many farang think it's not worth the trouble to learn the language, move to areas where few other farang live, get to know people with whom they feel they don't have anything in common etc. and that's a perfectly acceptable POV.The price for that is you will continue to experience a sub-optimal reality in Thailand as a resultOr you may choose to go someplace completely different, lots of choices, we make our bed and then we sleeps in it.

Our own reality is where we live in. The truth in many situations differ ! Different agendas ?

[SinglePot]

Nope. Don't think twice OP, it's all wrong.