Phuket -- A pessimist's Paradise

[Colonel_Mustard]

Do you really think that the people who have lived here and left for greener pastures because of corruption, traffic, prices, etc are happy where they landed?

But thats exactly my point.. I left Phuket, and all those phuket troubles, which I thought at the time were thai troubles but are not.. Stopped.

I am happier now than I have been in years, I have a much nicer set of locals, and while I will probably always be views as a bit of an outsider, I dont feel that that comes with much of a negative here. My wife has better friends, the expats I know seem more integrated, more stable, have more normal lives.. Both Thais and westerners socialize together, do community things together, I feel pretty much accepted. After a bunch of years that became important to me.

For everyone that says 'íts the person not the environment' I am here to tell you that in my case.. It WAS the environment, once I changed it those troubles went away.

I am pleased that you found somewhere that suits you better.

Phuket has undoubtedly changed and for some people those changes make it a less desirable place to live, whereas some of those same changes make it a better place for other people.

[Colonel_Mustard]

Do you really think that the people who have lived here and left for greener pastures because of corruption, traffic, prices, etc are happy where they landed?

But thats exactly my point.. I left Phuket, and all those phuket troubles, which I thought at the time were thai troubles but are not.. Stopped.

I am happier now than I have been in years, I have a much nicer set of locals, and while I will probably always be views as a bit of an outsider, I dont feel that that comes with much of a negative here. My wife has better friends, the expats I know seem more integrated, more stable, have more normal lives.. Both Thais and westerners socialize together, do community things together, I feel pretty much accepted. After a bunch of years that became important to me.

For everyone that says 'íts the person not the environment' I am here to tell you that in my case.. It WAS the environment, once I changed it those troubles went away.

That's why I call it "Planet Phuket."

All the BS is on Phuket, not all over Thailand.

Now that is BS

[NamKangMan]

@ Colonel_Mustard

Can you name some changes that have had a "positive impact" on your lifestyle here?

In relation to driving/riding whilst intoxicated - how many expats do you know that do this? I know quite a few. It's not just the tourists. So, affordable, or not, people are not using the tuk-tuks, and the reason I can only put it down to is price, and a bad reputation.

Edited June 23, 2013 by NamKangMan

[NamKangMan]

Do you really think that the people who have lived here and left for greener pastures because of corruption, traffic, prices, etc are happy where they landed?

But thats exactly my point.. I left Phuket, and all those phuket troubles, which I thought at the time were thai troubles but are not.. Stopped.

I am happier now than I have been in years, I have a much nicer set of locals, and while I will probably always be views as a bit of an outsider, I dont feel that that comes with much of a negative here. My wife has better friends, the expats I know seem more integrated, more stable, have more normal lives.. Both Thais and westerners socialize together, do community things together, I feel pretty much accepted. After a bunch of years that became important to me.

For everyone that says 'íts the person not the environment' I am here to tell you that in my case.. It WAS the environment, once I changed it those troubles went away.

That's why I call it "Planet Phuket."

All the BS is on Phuket, not all over Thailand.

Now that is BS

Really?

They have baht buses in Pattaya and metered taxis in Bangkok. Did you know Pattaya and Bangkok are in Thailand? :) :)

[NamKangMan]

Do you really think that the people who have lived here and left for greener pastures because of corruption, traffic, prices, etc are happy where they landed?

But thats exactly my point.. I left Phuket, and all those phuket troubles, which I thought at the time were thai troubles but are not.. Stopped.

I am happier now than I have been in years, I have a much nicer set of locals, and while I will probably always be views as a bit of an outsider, I dont feel that that comes with much of a negative here. My wife has better friends, the expats I know seem more integrated, more stable, have more normal lives.. Both Thais and westerners socialize together, do community things together, I feel pretty much accepted. After a bunch of years that became important to me.

For everyone that says 'íts the person not the environment' I am here to tell you that in my case.. It WAS the environment, once I changed it those troubles went away.

I am pleased that you found somewhere that suits you better.

Phuket has undoubtedly changed and for some people those changes make it a less desirable place to live, whereas some of those same changes make it a better place for other people.

I actually enjoy the traffic here. It's been a great change for me, personally. :) :)

[HannahD]

There is no such thing as pessimism. There is just advanced realism.

[Colonel_Mustard]

@ Colonel_Mustard

Can you name some changes that have had a "positive impact" on your lifestyle here?

In relation to driving/riding whilst intoxicated - how many expats do you know that do this? I know quite a few. It's not just the tourists. So, affordable, or not, people are not using the tuk-tuks, and the reason I can only put it down to is price, and a bad reputation.

Much wider variety of schooling, healthcare, shopping, sporting and leisure facilities. More food and drink choices. More locations directly available from Phuket airport. Better roads. Yes despite your complaints about the roads, they are significantly better than 12 years ago. When I arrived the road through Thalang to the airport was still a compacted dirt road, no concrete or tarmac. These things have combined to make life here much better overall than it would have been if Phuket had remained unchanged from when I first arrived.

Some things can be viewed both positively and negatively. For example, more people are able to own a car now than before. That is a positive for them but leads to more traffic which is probably a negative for you and me.

Some things have got worse for sure but they have little direct impact on my life and overall Phuket, for me at least, remains the best place to live in Thailand. Of course that may change in the future but I would hope that when I have had enough of the place, that I will just decide to leave, rather than bemoaning that it didn't remain the same just to suit me.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Colonel_Mustard

[Mudcrab]

so where are you lacking. Money, power, balls...? Do you need to look at society and corruption to enjoy a place? If all foul will you run off to the better?

I simply wish to live together with good people around me. In an place where showing money, power and balls are not part of everyday living.

so where are you going to go?

[Colonel_Mustard]

@NKM

Sorry I didn't realize that 'all the BS' just referred to public transport options, which I am happy to admit are cheaper in Bangkok and Pattaya.

I have my own car and so these issues don't personally affect me at all but I do feel sympathy for those expats that don't have their own transport.

[NamKangMan]

@ Colonel_Mustard

Can you name some changes that have had a "positive impact" on your lifestyle here?

In relation to driving/riding whilst intoxicated - how many expats do you know that do this? I know quite a few. It's not just the tourists. So, affordable, or not, people are not using the tuk-tuks, and the reason I can only put it down to is price, and a bad reputation.

Much wider variety of schooling, shopping, sporting and leisure facilities. More food and drink choices. More locations directly available from Phuket airport. Better roads. Yes despite your complaints about the roads, they are significantly better than 12 years ago. When I arrived the road through Thalang to the airport was still a compacted dirt road, no concrete or tarmac. These things have combined to make life here much better overall than it would have been if Phuket had remained unchanged from when I first arrived.

Some things can be viewed both positively and negatively. For example, more people are able to own a car now than before. That is a positive for them but leads to more traffic which is probably a negative for you and me.

Some things have got worse for sure but they have little direct impact on my life and overall Phuket, for me at least, remains the best place to live in Thailand. Of course that may change in the future but I would hope that when I have had enough of the place, that I will just decide to leave, rather than bemoaning that it didn't remain the same just to suit me.

I accept what you are saying, however, I would simply put down most of what you mentioned to "progress."

What product, service or policy has been implemented here for the benefit of tourists, in recent times?

There seems to be this attitude of "it doesn't effect me - so I don't care" here on Phuket. I suggest that because something doesn't effect you, that doesn't mean it's not have a negative effect on someone else. Eg. the power blackous.

If we were to look at the Phuket community, as a whole, that is, tourists, expats and locals - do you think we are all getting a quality product, and value for money, in living on Phuket? Remember, you have to look at the island as a whole, not what just effects you and doesn't effect you.

[Mudcrab]

I think many of us came to Phuket, thinking it would be a nice place to call home. After years of living realizing that Phuket can not ever be a home, just a place to be an visitor. That sucks.

As for home I mean a place where a person can really be part of the society, not just spend time there as an outsider.

The next step is not to care what will happen to this island. I went through that phase few years ago after finally figuring out that I can not really do anything to improve the situation. The change have to come from the local people who live here... and it never comes. So why should we even try to change things?

I still relapse every now and then thinking that I could improve things here. It still does not happen.

After all, just live a life here while it's still good and when it's not, hit the road and move somewhere else.

I live in area which is still good compared to the touristic beaches, way better actually. People here are generally good, but there is more an more indications of creed which is radiating from south west of the island.

The way I now see Phuket is, it's a great place to come for a holiday for 2 weeks, if you are cashed up, but is becoming a nightmare of a place to live.

No transport, traffic, pollution (noise, air, water and rubbish) poor roads, rising crime (petty and violent) drug abuse, failing infastructure, too much construction, corrupt police and officials, unfriendly locals, dodgy expats, black outs, flooding and an ever increasing cost of living.

As an expat, you learn to "work around" most of the BS here, but it's getting harder and it gets tiring.

Considering I'm living in the most expensive place in Thailand, I am constantly assessing whether I am really getting value for my money living here. This place has so many issues that do not exist in other places in Thailand, to the extent they exist here. You would think, the more you pay, the better products/services you receive. Loyalty can only be stretched so far.

So, the question must be asked, why pay top dollar for an inferior product/service, and for how long do they think expats and tourists will continue do so?

The European tourists have pretty much detoured Phuket in recent times. That leaves the expats, and they are leaving as well.

Unfortunately if you want to live in a tourist centre you have to live with all that entails, good and bad. I imagine living in Las Vegas wouldn't be all that glamorous compared to what you see of the good times in the casinos on TV from time to time. The other unfortunate thing is that we (that is the tourist who becomes an expat) are directly responsible for the corruption. It is the cash that we bring (I say we, expat and present day tourists, in the broadest sense) that is the root cause of the greed etc that leads to corruption. Phuket wasn't the first and certainly will not be the last. Where there is money, corruption in some form follows.

[Guest]

so where are you lacking. Money, power, balls...? Do you need to look at society and corruption to enjoy a place? If all foul will you run off to the better?

I simply wish to live together with good people around me. In an place where showing money, power and balls are not part of everyday living.

so where are you going to go?

I'll still have to find the place. It should be a location with less western / touristic influence. If in Thailand, possibly Trang.

[Mudcrab]

Well said and I agree. Even my Thai wife agrees that these government officials seem to think that water flows up hill! Gravity? What's that? As for your last sentence, farangs will be blamed as we are for everything else here. We are leaving here at the end of August for 9 months at least. I hope there is some improvement in the lame excuse for a government, but somehow I doubt it.

I am single, but, from memory, I think I have mentioned this a long time ago. Why can't you guys with Thai girlfirends/wives get them to register to vote here, and vote on election day for the alternative candidate.

Sure, we may be getting just more of the same, but at least they may start to listen to expats, speaking on behalf of themselves, and tourists, and voting throught a proxy, their wives and girlfriends. These votes can't be bought for a few baht, and these women do not need any "favours" in relation to business, land, construction etc.

Is it possible this could force some positive change?

She is registered with the government here. But she wasn't born here. So she can't vote here. And we're headed for the USA at the end of August. There is no such thing as an absentee ballot here in Thailand, like there is in the USA. Do you think Thailand is an actual democracy?

Of course Thailand is not a democracy.

I did not know you could only vote in the place you were born. I thought you could vote where you were registered. Pardon my ignorance.

Anyway, it a shame Issan hasn't got a beach. Expats, through their proxy girlfriends/wives, would be the big swing voters up there.

you've never been to Isaan have you? Plenty of sandy beaches around where I live.....sure not on the ocean but on bloody big lakes where I can swim and fish without jet ski scammers and mafia hassling me. Don't ask where as I won't tell. Don't want it stuffed by the likes of you whining expats living in the so called tourist meccas

Edited June 23, 2013 by Mudcrab

[NamKangMan]

@NKM

Sorry I didn't realize that 'all the BS' just referred to public transport options, which I am happy to admit are cheaper in Bangkok and Pattaya.

I have my own car and so these issues don't personally affect me at all but I do feel sympathy for those expats that don't have their own transport.

@NKM

Sorry I didn't realize that 'all the BS' just referred to public transport options, which I am happy to admit are cheaper in Bangkok and Pattaya.

I have my own car and so these issues don't personally affect me at all but I do feel sympathy for those expats that don't have their own transport.

I hear this arguement a lot.

"I have a car, so the tuk-tuks don't effect." If you, Mrs Mustard and any young Mustards, were crashed into by a drunk tourist in a hire car, because he didn't want to use the expensive tuk-tuks, has the transport issue here effected you, or not???? Let's even say the tourist wasn't even drunk, or speeding, just unfamiliar with the roads here.

I suggest it has, and God, Buddha, Allah, Shiva etc forbid that any of you are killed, or end up a vegetable, or lose the use of your legs from the accident.

At it's very least, surely you conceed the transport issue here makes you sit in traffic longer, and causes difficulty in parking, on occassions.

Would you now agree that the BS here DOES in fact have an effect on you by creating a higher safety risk on the roads and traffic and parking problems?

Now, whether that effect on you is enough for you to leave Phuket, is a different question.

[NamKangMan]

I think many of us came to Phuket, thinking it would be a nice place to call home. After years of living realizing that Phuket can not ever be a home, just a place to be an visitor. That sucks.

As for home I mean a place where a person can really be part of the society, not just spend time there as an outsider.

The next step is not to care what will happen to this island. I went through that phase few years ago after finally figuring out that I can not really do anything to improve the situation. The change have to come from the local people who live here... and it never comes. So why should we even try to change things?

I still relapse every now and then thinking that I could improve things here. It still does not happen.

After all, just live a life here while it's still good and when it's not, hit the road and move somewhere else.

I live in area which is still good compared to the touristic beaches, way better actually. People here are generally good, but there is more an more indications of creed which is radiating from south west of the island.

The way I now see Phuket is, it's a great place to come for a holiday for 2 weeks, if you are cashed up, but is becoming a nightmare of a place to live.

No transport, traffic, pollution (noise, air, water and rubbish) poor roads, rising crime (petty and violent) drug abuse, failing infastructure, too much construction, corrupt police and officials, unfriendly locals, dodgy expats, black outs, flooding and an ever increasing cost of living.

As an expat, you learn to "work around" most of the BS here, but it's getting harder and it gets tiring.

Considering I'm living in the most expensive place in Thailand, I am constantly assessing whether I am really getting value for my money living here. This place has so many issues that do not exist in other places in Thailand, to the extent they exist here. You would think, the more you pay, the better products/services you receive. Loyalty can only be stretched so far.

So, the question must be asked, why pay top dollar for an inferior product/service, and for how long do they think expats and tourists will continue do so?

The European tourists have pretty much detoured Phuket in recent times. That leaves the expats, and they are leaving as well.

Unfortunately if you want to live in a tourist centre you have to live with all that entails, good and bad. I imagine living in Las Vegas wouldn't be all that glamorous compared to what you see of the good times in the casinos on TV from time to time. The other unfortunate thing is that we (that is the tourist who becomes an expat) are directly responsible for the corruption. It is the cash that we bring (I say we, expat and present day tourists, in the broadest sense) that is the root cause of the greed etc that leads to corruption. Phuket wasn't the first and certainly will not be the last. Where there is money, corruption in some form follows.

I accept what you say.

Is corruption that out of control on Phuket that it's effecting the success of the tourism industry?

[Colonel_Mustard]

@NKM

Of course there is some 'it doesn't affect me, so I don't care' which is perfectly normal. I'm not too bothered about tuk tuks as I don't use them, just as I'm sure tourists don't care about schooling options available here.

Yes, I believe that on the whole we are getting a reasonably good product in Phuket, though it's far from perfect. Whether or not it's good value depends on what you're comparing it too. Family and friends that have visited it here on holiday found it good value but then they're probably comparing it to European prices. A visitor from Isaan would probably be quite shocked at some of the prices and perceive it as poor value.

[Colonel_Mustard]

I think many of us came to Phuket, thinking it would be a nice place to call home. After years of living realizing that Phuket can not ever be a home, just a place to be an visitor. That sucks.

As for home I mean a place where a person can really be part of the society, not just spend time there as an outsider.

The next step is not to care what will happen to this island. I went through that phase few years ago after finally figuring out that I can not really do anything to improve the situation. The change have to come from the local people who live here... and it never comes. So why should we even try to change things?

I still relapse every now and then thinking that I could improve things here. It still does not happen.

After all, just live a life here while it's still good and when it's not, hit the road and move somewhere else.

I live in area which is still good compared to the touristic beaches, way better actually. People here are generally good, but there is more an more indications of creed which is radiating from south west of the island.

The way I now see Phuket is, it's a great place to come for a holiday for 2 weeks, if you are cashed up, but is becoming a nightmare of a place to live.

No transport, traffic, pollution (noise, air, water and rubbish) poor roads, rising crime (petty and violent) drug abuse, failing infastructure, too much construction, corrupt police and officials, unfriendly locals, dodgy expats, black outs, flooding and an ever increasing cost of living.

As an expat, you learn to "work around" most of the BS here, but it's getting harder and it gets tiring.

Considering I'm living in the most expensive place in Thailand, I am constantly assessing whether I am really getting value for my money living here. This place has so many issues that do not exist in other places in Thailand, to the extent they exist here. You would think, the more you pay, the better products/services you receive. Loyalty can only be stretched so far.

So, the question must be asked, why pay top dollar for an inferior product/service, and for how long do they think expats and tourists will continue do so?

The European tourists have pretty much detoured Phuket in recent times. That leaves the expats, and they are leaving as well.

Unfortunately if you want to live in a tourist centre you have to live with all that entails, good and bad. I imagine living in Las Vegas wouldn't be all that glamorous compared to what you see of the good times in the casinos on TV from time to time. The other unfortunate thing is that we (that is the tourist who becomes an expat) are directly responsible for the corruption. It is the cash that we bring (I say we, expat and present day tourists, in the broadest sense) that is the root cause of the greed etc that leads to corruption. Phuket wasn't the first and certainly will not be the last. Where there is money, corruption in some form follows.

I accept what you say.

Is corruption that out of control on Phuket that it's effecting the success of the tourism industry?

Corruption doesn't seem to have that much effect on the success of the tourism industry so far as corruption throughout Thailand (and certainly not just in Phuket) is rampant and has been for many years, yet tourism numbers keep increasing.

[NamKangMan]

@ Mudcrab

I have been to Issan, several times, and even out into the small villages. I know there is a large lake in Udon Thani. I perfer the beach, to a lake, but each to their own.

Are you on phuket, or in issan?

[Mudcrab]

Everyones circumstances are different and this reflects in how they see and feel and talk about this place..what's the problem with that?

Someones 'milk and honey' vision isn't neccessarily the same as his neighbours is it?

Also at times relates directly to just how rose coloured the observer/commenters specs are.

I don't think expats, tourists and locals want "milk and honey." They just want what everywhere else in Thailand has, nothing more, nothing less.

We are all being held to ransom here by the "influential people."

You got it wrong... I never said that expats, tourists and locals want "milk and honey." i was saying that peoples interpretation of their lifestyle/surroundings can vary immensely..in that, say for eg, GOM may interpret his lifestyle/surroundings as being great ie ''milk and honey'' but his neighbour for example may hate his own lifestyle/surroundings.

Nothing at all to do with how you replied.

If you read some of the posts you will see that some people are perfectly happy with their lot here., which i feel is what GOM was saying in #70.....

I understand what you are saying.

Every morning I wake up, in good health, I'm happy for another day on this earth. If you have your health, you have everything. A good life can be viewed as simple as that. Saying that, people may view me as optimistic, although I am sure many on this forum view me as pessimistic.

Circumstances do change in life. Sometimes overnight, sometimes, over a longer period of time.

An example may be, today you are "perfectly happy with your lot" on Phuket, tomorrow, you find out they are building a pig farm next door to your house. So, you go from being happy on Phuket, to not so happy, now owning a worthless property, and you will have to move and buy again.

Another example, applicible to all of us here, is, you are riding your motorbike along, doing the right thing, and then you are hit by a drunk tourist, causing serious injury to yourself. Surely, you would have to think the lack of transport on Phuket had a role to play in your accident. If you were to interview the drunk tourist and ask. "Why were you riding drunk?" If they reply, "Because the tuk-tuks are too expensive" - maybe the transport issue on Phuket is now well and truly in your face, as you lay in hospital. Sure, this does not diminish the culpability of the drunk tourist, but the transport issue here has now affected "your lot in life" here, through no fault of your own.

There's been many complaints, recently, of lengthy black outs on Phuket. I haven't had them here in Patong. Should my attitude be, "who cares, it doesn't effect me" therefore, I am "happy with my lot" on Phuket, in relation to electric supply, when a short distance away, electric is going down for hours, regularly?

There seems to be a general attitude of, "It doesn't effect me, so I don't care" here on Phuket, despite the motorbike example I gave above, that it could happen to anyone, anytime.

Years ago, many came here with the "TIT" (This Is Thailand) attitude, myself included. We all had a laugh at things and simply just put it down to "TIT." Most were "happy with their lot" on Phuket back then. Slowly, we discovered it wasn't TIT, it was "influential people" that have created such negative change on Phuket, and they continue to do so, unabated.

I would suggest, that "negative change" effects us all here, therefore, effecting our "happiness with our lot in life" here, and those negative changes keep happening, in the short term, and the long term here, and will continue to change one's attitude and perspective of Phuket, to the point that tourists will not come here, and expats will move away from here.

and then Phuket may return to what it was that originally attracted people to it. Unspoilt paradise . But I doubt if that will ever happen while there is cheap pussy and booze the sex tourists will keep coming.

[NamKangMan]

@ Colonel_Mustard

Once again, you hear this argument a lot. "The tourism numbers are up, so everything on Phuket must be alright."

The tourists numbers MAY be up, but the tourist dollars are down, way down.

If this trend continues, I think there will be further negative impact on Phuket, due to a struggling local economy. An example may be, rising rents, from Thai landlords, to cover their vacant properties. That rent rise is passed onto the consumer, so food and beverage prices increase. Such increases effect ALL of us.

[Colonel_Mustard]

@ mudcrab

You're a bit out of date old chap. Not too many sex tourists these days apparently, just Russians and Chinese who tend to bring their partners with them.

I think most of the sex tourists got married and moved up to Isaan with their partners

[Colonel_Mustard]

@ Colonel_Mustard

Once again, you hear this argument a lot. "The tourism numbers are up, so everything on Phuket must be alright."

The tourists numbers MAY be up, but the tourist dollars are down, way down.

If this trend continues, I think there will be further negative impact on Phuket, due to a struggling local economy. An example may be, rising rents, from Thai landlords, to cover their vacant properties. That rent rise is passed onto the consumer, so food and beverage prices increase. Such increases effect ALL of us.

Can you point me to where you got the info on tourist dollars being down? I'm also not convinced by this struggling local economy either judging from the number of new cars on the road each month.

[Mudcrab]

@ Mudcrab

I have been to Issan, several times, and even out into the small villages. I know there is a large lake in Udon Thani. I perfer the beach, to a lake, but each to their own.

Are you on phuket, or in issan?

Issan at the moment

[NamKangMan]

@ Mudcrab

I know a couple of bar girls who have left Phuket for Pattaya. One of a few reasons they left were the lack of customers, and there was nothing wrong with the appearance of these girls, they were attractive.

If you ever go to Bangla Road, next time, have a look down a few of the Soi. There is no one in them and many of the bars are closed, and of the ones that are not, many of them are for sale.

As the girls slowly leave, so will what little of the western sex tourist market as well.

BTW, many bars in the new tiger are charging 1000 baht bar fine and over 100 baht for a beer, so the "cheap pussy and cheap booze" is not so cheap anymore, compared to other places in Thailand.

[dogpoo]

@ Mudcrab

I know a couple of bar girls who have left Phuket for Pattaya. One of a few reasons they left were the lack of customers, and there was nothing wrong with the appearance of these girls, they were attractive.

If you ever go to Bangla Road, next time, have a look down a few of the Soi. There is no one in them and many of the bars are closed, and of the ones that are not, many of them are for sale.

As the girls slowly leave, so will what little of the western sex tourist market as well.

BTW, many bars in the new tiger are charging 1000 baht bar fine and over 100 baht for a beer, so the "cheap pussy and cheap booze" is not so cheap anymore, compared to other places in Thailand.

There are many many stupid people ready and willing to pay the 1000฿ bar fine and pay over 100฿ for a small beer!!

[Mudcrab]

@ mudcrab

You're a bit out of date old chap. Not too many sex tourists these days apparently, just Russians and Chinese who tend to bring their partners with them.

I think most of the sex tourists got married and moved up to Isaan with their partners

not sure about being out of date, but it has been a year since I have been to Phuket. But I stand by my cheap booze and pussy statement not withstanding the Russian/Chinese tourist demographic. There will still be bucketloads of western men in Phuket to sustain the industry....the numbers may not be so visual but they will still be there.

[Mudcrab]

@ Mudcrab

I know a couple of bar girls who have left Phuket for Pattaya. One of a few reasons they left were the lack of customers, and there was nothing wrong with the appearance of these girls, they were attractive.

If you ever go to Bangla Road, next time, have a look down a few of the Soi. There is no one in them and many of the bars are closed, and of the ones that are not, many of them are for sale.

As the girls slowly leave, so will what little of the western sex tourist market as well.

BTW, many bars in the new tiger are charging 1000 baht bar fine and over 100 baht for a beer, so the "cheap pussy and cheap booze" is not so cheap anymore, compared to other places in Thailand.

Nam.....1000baht is just under 2 hours of the minimum wage in Australia ( 16 bucks or so an hour), 100 baht is 3 dollars. For someone on holiday this is cheap. 1000 baht seems a little steep though I thought 300 was closer to the mark and 1000 for a good time. been a while

Edited June 23, 2013 by Mudcrab

[Colonel_Mustard]

@ mudcrab

You're a bit out of date old chap. Not too many sex tourists these days apparently, just Russians and Chinese who tend to bring their partners with them.

I think most of the sex tourists got married and moved up to Isaan with their partners

not sure about being out of date, but it has been a year since I have been to Phuket. But I stand by my cheap booze and pussy statement not withstanding the Russian/Chinese tourist demographic. There will still be bucketloads of western men in Phuket to sustain the industry....the numbers may not be so visual but they will still be there.

You're probably right. I never go to Patong, or even south of Surin, so to be honest I am most likely far more out of date than you. I only responded to have a sly dig at an Isaan interloper

[Mudcrab]

We now have on this forum three or 4 threads all ending up in the same "oh Phuket isn't what it used to be", "oh Phuket sucks with all the traffic and taxi mafia" "this is what annoys me here" 'I'm leaving after years IN PATONG",,,,I mean really, you guys, and I'm the GOM?

Fellow TV member and I on the way to playing some tennis today had this discussion and he imparted a small tale which I will now relate.

The Gate Keeper:

Back in the 1700's there was a city gate keeper, a traveler happened upon him and asked how are things in this city. Gate Keeper replies, well, how are things where you come from?

Traveler-people aren't very nice, everybody greedy so everything now very expensive, sometimes the law there works most of the time corruption.

Gate Keeper- well, thats the same here, best you keep on moving.

Traveler #2 shows up asks the Gate keeper the same gate keeper replies the same , how are things where you are coming from.

Traveler 2 - actually I have lovely parents there and many a good friend, fabulous times, weather is usually o.k. and our harvests always good, as a bird out of the nest it was just time for me to spread my wings.

Gate keeper opens the gate and says welcome, what you descibe is how it is here too.

Perspective. Mind-set. Attitude.

Great story GOM.

Nothing to do with "perspective, mind-set, attitude" - obviously, Traveler 1 and Traveler 2 are from different cities.

I'd guess Traveler 1 is from a place where he pays a minimum 200 baht journey in a tuk-tuk and Traveler 2 is from a place where he can go a far as he wants on a baht bus for 10 baht.

NKM: You missed the whole point of the story.

It doesn't matter where traveler 1 or traveler 2 come from or go.

They are going to find the same kind of people, similar situations, broken dreams (or fantastic ones) wherever they go.

Do you really think that the people who have lived here and left for greener pastures because of corruption, traffic, prices, etc are happy where they landed?

My friends that have moved to Pattaya say to me they are a lot happier.

Believe it, or not, they actually say to me Pattaya has a more relaxed atmosphere.

dear oh dear...Pattaya or Phuket......decisions decisions

[Mudcrab]

@ mudcrab

You're a bit out of date old chap. Not too many sex tourists these days apparently, just Russians and Chinese who tend to bring their partners with them.

I think most of the sex tourists got married and moved up to Isaan with their partners

not sure about being out of date, but it has been a year since I have been to Phuket. But I stand by my cheap booze and pussy statement not withstanding the Russian/Chinese tourist demographic. There will still be bucketloads of western men in Phuket to sustain the industry....the numbers may not be so visual but they will still be there.

You're probably right. I never go to Patong, or even south of Surin, so to be honest I am most likely far more out of date than you. I only responded to have a sly dig at an Isaan interloper

and I thought I had snuck in as a well rounded man of the world....you obviously saw through that and picked me as the buffalo herding country hick that I am!!!!!

That's what I love about where I live...I can be in pattaya in say 8 hours driving or a couple of hours if I want to catch a plane .......do whatever and come home and not have to worry about the BS of living there or BKK for that matter. Something the residents of such places cannot enjoy

Edited June 23, 2013 by Mudcrab