Cheapest way to withdraw money with a foreign card

[BradinAsia]

If you are an American and have ever been in the Military or Government Employee you can join USAA Bank on-line and your debit card charges are returned to your account each month. I believe it's 5 transactions per month at least.

Yes, you are right. My bank is USAA.

I don't have to worry about ATM fees. USAA reimburses my ATM fees up to a max of $15 every month.

USAA is great in various other ways, the best bank I've ever used.

[lubbkis]

The cheapest and safest way is to use Traveller's cheques. No skimming und pishing possible, very common in Thailand.

Just know that getting your cash back if they're lost or stolen isn't quite as straightforward as the ads would have you believe.

Don't lose them. Treat them like cash. "Lock" in an inner pocket of your carry on bag or maybe in one of those round the neck/belt wallets during flight.

You have to be very well organized keeping track of which you've used and which numbers you have left, and God forbid those notes get lost along with the cheques.

Send the list to yourself by e-mail. Send yourself an e-mail each time you cash some saying where and when.

And if you make a claim once, don't use the same vendor anymore, if they think you've claimed "too much" they flat out refuse to pay.

Maybe Thomas Cook is better than Amex, not sure.

Apparently all the profit margin on these come from people losing them, leaving them sitting in a file or drawer somewhere and forgetting about them.

There's also a per-cheque fee/tax, which makes a difference on small-denomination cheques.

And the exchange rate is different.

Good for backups in case the whole ATM networks go down for a while, given the above cautions.

[CaitlinHappyMeal]

nationwide building society has foreign fee free withdrawal on some of its accounts

[wolf5370]

I do have a German Credit card (as well as an EC card) and I do not know of any German bank that does not charge a fee for ATM transactions in foreign (non EURO) countries, or rebate the Thai charges. Normally, they carge between 1.5 to 2% 9the same as when using a credit card in a forein country to purchase goods) and in some cases where the amount is low, say under EURO 100, they will charge a fixed amount. The latest experience that I had was last month in the UK, when I used my German EC card to draw GDP100 from an ATM. I was debited with a charge of EUR 5 (which amounts to 5%!).

I would be most grateful for any names of the generous German banks!

Did you use a private ATM (petrol and service stations/outside and inside some shops/pubs and clubs/etc) rather than a bank ATM? All these charge for use (even with UK cards) - in the UK always use a high street bank ATM (outside most banks/some post offices/supermarkets). Last time I used a private ATM (in my parent's village in Kent that was all there was until recently) it charged mu NatWest card GBP 3.50 - that was about 5 years ago - so 5 Euros seems about right.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

There is some horrible misinformation posted here, but I will tackle just the british end of things here.

First of all the Halifax Clarity does not tamper with the Mastercard exchange rate, so any charges would be via the bank and ATM used. Use AEON and the problem disappears.

Next, the HSBC Advance suggestion is equal nonsense, as first you have to pay for the account and secondly there is still a 2.75% 'foreign transaction charge(and still you'll need to go to AEON to avoid more charges).

Also the suggestion that you can only obtain a Metro Bank account if you live in London is nonsense. You just have to go to a branch to apply and to take your cards(all done on the same day). Both their debit and credit cards are fee free. Credit card just charges interest on cash withdrawals. 13% APR.

Fee free accounts in the UK include Metro Bank(debit and credit card), Norwich and Peterborough Building Society Gold Classic and Gold Light accounts and the Cumberland Building Society Plus current account.

For Fee free CCs, the Halifax Clarity and the Metro Bank's Mastercard. You can also get a Halifax Clarity Rewards card for extra benefits.

SAGA Platinum card(for the over fifties) preloaded may work to waive the 2% cash withdrawal fee(needs to be double checked). That way you avoid any possible interest charges.

Prepaid Cards for those who can't any of the products above, include the Kalixa Pay and the ICE Prepaid GBP Travellers card.

So less of the hearsay and tall stories. This is the way it is.

[wilgoster]

snooky

If you are retired and from the US, you can get a great rate - very close to official exchange rate - by having your SS paid directly into your BKK Bank account. This has to be set up through BKK Bank here, in a separate account wherein you must go to the bank personally and withdraw your funds (obviously to make sure you are still alive and no one else grabbing it). Then I just deposit it into my account where I use my local atm for use.

What's missing, Snooky, is - How did you get your hands on my money to deposit it in your account? MPR. Useful starter info, but I thought one had to deal directly with Social Security (S.E. Asia office in Manila) at some point. Am I wrong and if not, where in the sequence does dealing with SSA come in and how is it navigated? Details would find at least one welcoming reader.

[bangarang]

Rates will change every day so if you take out 20,000thb its going to be a different amount every time. I regularly use my US debit card at the ATM and the fee is 150thb usually no matter what ATM I use but again the exchange rate changes every day so just go to http://www.xe.com and see what the rate is that day.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

snooky

If you are retired and from the US, you can get a great rate - very close to official exchange rate - by having your SS paid directly into your BKK Bank account. This has to be set up through BKK Bank here, in a separate account wherein you must go to the bank personally and withdraw your funds (obviously to make sure you are still alive and no one else grabbing it). Then I just deposit it into my account where I use my local atm for use.

What's missing, Snooky, is - How did you get your hands on my money to deposit it in your account? MPR. Useful starter info, but I thought one had to deal directly with Social Security (S.E. Asia office in Manila) at some point. Am I wrong and if not, where in the sequence does dealing with SSA come in and how is it navigated? Details would find at least one welcoming reader.

The instructions can be found on this BKK Bank webpage, under the dropdown section for payments from U.S. government agencies:

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/TransferingFunds/TransferringIntoThailand/ReceivingFundsfromUSA/Pages/ReceivingFundsfromUSA.aspx

From March 1, 2013, the US Treasury Department will cease issuing paper cheques for federal benefits such as pensions, annuities or payroll, including Social Security and Veterans Affairs payments and will transfer benefits electronically via direct bank deposit.

If you currently receive your payments via cheque, you will need to notify your Federal Benefit Agency of the US account you wish to have your payments directly deposited into by March 1, 2013. As Bangkok Bank is the only provider in Thailand offering Direct Deposit services into a Thai bank account, you will need to request your US government agency or private organization route your payments into your Bangkok Bank account via the Bangkok Bank New York branch. If you currently reside in Thailand, you can apply for the service in person at any Bangkok Bank branch near you (except the micro branches).

Benefits of the Direct Deposit Service

• You no longer need to visit the bank branch to cash or send your US Treasury or company issued cheques for collection.
• No risk of losing cheques.
• Receive your funds faster.
• Funds will be converted into Baht using the rate receiving electronic funds transfers (Buying TT rate) which is better than the rate for buying foreign cheques (Buying sight bill rate).

How to apply: If receiving payments from a US Government Agency

1. Download the 'Direct Deposit Sign-up Form (SF1199A)' from www.socialsecurity.gov/online. Complete the form to sign up for Direct Deposit with your relevant US government agency.
2. Open a savings account at any Bangkok Bank branch (except micro branches). If you already have an account with Bangkok Bank, you can use your existing bank account for this service, however we will need to change the type of account in line with the Direct Deposit’s terms and conditions.
3. Complete a 'Direct Deposit Service Application' form, which you can pick up at any Bangkok Bank branch (except the micro branches). You can also opt to fill out an SMS Remittance Alert Service Request Form to receive an SMS notification on your mobile phone when funds have been successfully transferred into your Bangkok Bank account.
4. Submit all forms to Bangkok Bank with the following supporting documents:
   • Identification Card/Government Official ID Card/Passport together with a customer identification document such as your Social Security Card, Annuitant ID Card etc.
   • A document from the relevant agency giving evidence of your right to receive the payments.
5. After verifying your documents, Bangkok Bank will submit your application to the government agency asking them to approve your request to receive the funds via Direct Deposit.
6. After the request is approved by the US Government Agency, your payments will be electronically deposited directly into your Bangkok Bank account.

Important

If you use a direct deposit service to receive funds from a US Government Agency, you must appear in person at a Bangkok Bank branch to withdraw the funds.

In compliance with US regulations, Bangkok Bank cannot authorize the withdrawal of funds from your direct deposit account by an appointed representative, or via ATM or any other electronic channel. You must appear in person at a Bangkok Bank branch to withdraw the funds. You can, however, open a normal savings or current account and transfer the funds from your direct deposit account to this account. You may then withdraw your funds as usual via ATM or any other electronic channel.

You can also opt to directly contact the US Government Agencies to send funds into your savings account with Bangkok Bank. However, we still need to request that you change your savings account to a Direct Deposit account. Failure to comply will result in Bangkok Bank not being able to deposit funds transferred from the US Government Agency into your account.

Edited June 25, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JimGant]

the ATM rate is the interbank wholesale rate the best possible all the others are downhill from there

That's not correct.

As has been said on many threads, the rate received is the daily network rate (Visa/Plus or MC/Cirrus), which can be found on-line. Visa's rate is better than MC's -- by an average of 16 satang (USD Fx). And Visa's rate averages about 7 satang *worse* than the Interbank rate (thus, MC averages 23 satang off the Interbank rate).

Of course, both Visa and MC, with their clout, realize the Interbank rate when converting your dollars into baht -- but since it's not you realizing the Interbank rate, it's this *spread* that costs you, the card holder -- and which provides extra bucks to the issuing banks.

And, with a larger spread, it would seem MC/Cirrus would be the first choice of issuing banks over Visa. In fact, USAA, which is what I use, does offer the Visa credit card (which has a Cirrus logo on the back) -- but all its debit and ATM cards are strictly MC/Cirrus. Hmmmm. Sounds like a nod to the popularity of Visa, but not necessarily to its profitability.

If you are using your banks ATM card as opposed to a Visa or MC debit or credit card the ATM rate will not be the best possible but I don't think anyone even uses those anymore but that rate would be more than the MC Visa rate because it would not be the wholesale rate.

If you have an ATM card without the Visa or MC logo, it's probably because it's associated with a savings (vice checking) account -- whereby monthly transactions are limited, thus no debit function (and no logo accordingly). But, every ATM card is associated with a network -- and for international transactions this is most likely Visa's Plus network, or MC's Cirrus network. This wil be indicated on your ATM card -- and you will get the exact same rate as if you had used a debit/ATM card with a logo that matches the network you're riding (i.e., Plus for Visa, Cirrus for MC).

[DekDaeng]

Thanks for the tip on the Aeon ATM.

I went to the machine upstairs in Siam TV Chiang Mai (opens at 10:00) - it is located outside the small finance company office.

I ran a withdrawal and checked today's $A/THB TT rate from SCB which matched exactly the debit amount shown at my bank, and no ATM fee, so far, so good.

I will have to wait till the end of the month to check for any additional fees showing up on my Australian Bank account.

I will post the results here...

Yer welcum.

You can check balance on O/S accounts at the ATM - which came as a surprise to me.

Drawing 5000 to 40,000 (which you can at aeon) there was always an extra (approx) 150 baht missing, checking before & after. Have pics, on another computer.

I don't use them any more.

[socrates28]

Open a HSBC account in the UK, sign up for HSBC advance and enjoy worldwide free ATM withdrawals.

To avoid being charged in Thailand use Aeon, they are easy to find and do not charge the 150 baht that others charge.

Not true there is a 2.75% fee - look on the Terms and Conditions

[DekDaeng]

Also, drawing at UnionPay marked ATMs from HSBC card -

[socrates28]

For Thailand the best debit cards for convenience (forget AEON as there are only 3 and out of the way) (This was written with Pattaya in mind)

Nationwide Flex Plus - has a £10 monthly fee (cheaper than HSBC) - loads of benefits BUT pays 3% interest on £2500 so after tax this account ends up costing you £5 a month - completely free overseas withdrawals - plus its a VISA so no 180 baht charge like MC (at the moment) - £250 daily limit

http://www.nationwid...lus/default.htm

Norwich and Peterborough - Classic Gold Account - FREE - no overseas withdrawal charges - but you need to send £500 to the account and you can transfer it straight back out again. Plus you get loads of benefits from Sentinel - £250 daily limit - 150 baht at ATM

http://www.nandp.co....urrent-account/

Metro Bank - totally FREE - however a MC so attracts 180 at ATM - other drawback branches only in South East - but they open the account there and then like K Bank £300 daily limit

https://www.metroban...urrentAccounts/

There is the Halifax Clarity Card which is a credit card but a few people have questioned the conversion rates on other forums so I will pass

By far the best method is sending money from Halifax online banking direct to K-Bank if you have an account - total cost £20 which is £10-15 cheaper than all the others (remember you have intermediary charges) plus around 500 baht to receive at the other end

Edited June 25, 2013 by socrates28

[socrates28]

Hi all,

I come to thailand 3 or 4 months every year,

Having been had for fees every transaction for years one day i decided to do a bit of research into which would be the cheapest way to change from £s to THB..

Sterling travellers cheques is what i came up with...

1% to buy the cheques first of all and 33bhat to change the cheque up in thailand,,

Am i correct or wide of the mark and missing something?????

Cheers...

They are free @ Lloyds and you should be asking for £200 denominations

Cumbersome method though

[Jiu-Jitsu]

the ATM rate is the interbank wholesale rate the best possible all the others are downhill from there

That's not correct.

As has been said on many threads, the rate received is the daily network rate (Visa/Plus or MC/Cirrus), which can be found on-line. Visa's rate is better than MC's -- by an average of 16 satang (USD Fx). And Visa's rate averages about 7 satang *worse* than the Interbank rate (thus, MC averages 23 satang off the Interbank rate).

Of course, both Visa and MC, with their clout, realize the Interbank rate when converting your dollars into baht -- but since it's not you realizing the Interbank rate, it's this *spread* that costs you, the card holder -- and which provides extra bucks to the issuing banks.

And, with a larger spread, it would seem MC/Cirrus would be the first choice of issuing banks over Visa. In fact, USAA, which is what I use, does offer the Visa credit card (which has a Cirrus logo on the back) -- but all its debit and ATM cards are strictly MC/Cirrus. Hmmmm. Sounds like a nod to the popularity of Visa, but not necessarily to its profitability.

If you are using your banks ATM card as opposed to a Visa or MC debit or credit card the ATM rate will not be the best possible but I don't think anyone even uses those anymore but that rate would be more than the MC Visa rate because it would not be the wholesale rate.

If you have an ATM card without the Visa or MC logo, it's probably because it's associated with a savings (vice checking) account -- whereby monthly transactions are limited, thus no debit function (and no logo accordingly). But, every ATM card is associated with a network -- and for international transactions this is most likely Visa's Plus network, or MC's Cirrus network. This wil be indicated on your ATM card -- and you will get the exact same rate as if you had used a debit/ATM card with a logo that matches the network you're riding (i.e., Plus for Visa, Cirrus for MC).

Your post is the biggest load of codswallop I have read in a long time.

As a random choice, I looked at the Mastercard rate for the £/Baht on the 20th of June. 47.59998 baht to the Pound. Then I looked at Bangkok Bank TT Rate(that would be the Interbank rate wouldn't it?) 47.62000.

Let's take yesterday, the 24th of June. Mastercard 47.63566 Bangkok Bank TT 47.46250

Your theory doesn't really stand up, does it? From whence do you get your favourable Interbank rates to draw up your conspiracy?

[Jiu-Jitsu]

For Thailand the best debit cards for convenience (forget AEON as there are only 3 and out of the way) (This was written with Pattaya in mind)

Nationwide Flex Plus - has a £10 monthly fee (cheaper than HSBC) - loads of benefits BUT pays 3% interest on £2500 so after tax this account ends up costing you £5 a month - completely free overseas withdrawals - plus its a VISA so no 180 baht charge like MC (at the moment) - £250 daily limit

http://www.nationwid...lus/default.htm

Norwich and Peterborough - Classic Gold Account - FREE - no overseas withdrawal charges - but you need to send £500 to the account and you can transfer it straight back out again. Plus you get loads of benefits from Sentinel - £250 daily limit - 150 baht at ATM

http://www.nandp.co....urrent-account/

Metro Bank - totally FREE - however a MC so attracts 180 at ATM - other drawback branches only in South East - but they open the account there and then like K Bank £300 daily limit

https://www.metroban...urrentAccounts/

There is the Halifax Clarity Card which is a credit card but a few people have questioned the conversion rates on other forums so I will pass

By far the best method is sending money from Halifax online banking direct to K-Bank if you have an account - total cost £20 which is £10-15 cheaper than all the others (remember you have intermediary charges) plus around 500 baht to receive at the other end

Sorry, but you post makes a lot of suppositions....

Pattaya: Three ATMs and all out of the way?? Could be out of your way because you are just lazy. Don't pre-suppose that everyone has your circumstances.

So thanks, but we would prefer NOT to forget AEON.

Nationwide FlexPlus costs £120 per year. Fine if I need the travel and mobile phone insurance, but I don't, it doesn't fit my needs. Mt TI covers 90 days per trip and has no excess and my mobile phone cost nothing.

I already get Extended Warranty Protection on my Nationwide Gold Card.

So just a bad idea.

No one but donkeys have questioned the Clarity's rate. Let them come up with actual figures, banks and dates. Enough said.

As to sending money to K-Bank, that is only for those who are incapable of getting to an AEON ATM...which obviously includes you.

Not everyone would wish to leave their money in an unprotected institution. Run a search and you will find plenty whose money has disappeared from K-Bank's coffers.

But if you are going to recommend that method, you should at least remind them to transfer in Pounds and not Baht.

Each to his own eh? I've already covered the best cards in post #95.

[socrates28]

For Thailand the best debit cards for convenience (forget AEON as there are only 3 and out of the way) (This was written with Pattaya in mind)

Nationwide Flex Plus - has a £10 monthly fee (cheaper than HSBC) - loads of benefits BUT pays 3% interest on £2500 so after tax this account ends up costing you £5 a month - completely free overseas withdrawals - plus its a VISA so no 180 baht charge like MC (at the moment) - £250 daily limit

http://www.nationwid...lus/default.htm

Norwich and Peterborough - Classic Gold Account - FREE - no overseas withdrawal charges - but you need to send £500 to the account and you can transfer it straight back out again. Plus you get loads of benefits from Sentinel - £250 daily limit - 150 baht at ATM

http://www.nandp.co....urrent-account/

Metro Bank - totally FREE - however a MC so attracts 180 at ATM - other drawback branches only in South East - but they open the account there and then like K Bank £300 daily limit

https://www.metroban...urrentAccounts/

There is the Halifax Clarity Card which is a credit card but a few people have questioned the conversion rates on other forums so I will pass

By far the best method is sending money from Halifax online banking direct to K-Bank if you have an account - total cost £20 which is £10-15 cheaper than all the others (remember you have intermediary charges) plus around 500 baht to receive at the other end

Sorry, but you post makes a lot of suppositions....

Pattaya: Three ATMs and all out of the way?? Could be out of your way because you are just lazy. Don't pre-suppose that everyone has your circumstances.

So thanks, but we would prefer NOT to forget AEON.

Nationwide FlexPlus costs £120 per year. Fine if I need the travel and mobile phone insurance, but I don't, it doesn't fit my needs. Mt TI covers 90 days per trip and has no excess and my mobile phone cost nothing.

I already get Extended Warranty Protection on my Nationwide Gold Card.

So just a bad idea.

No one but donkeys have questioned the Clarity's rate. Let them come up with actual figures, banks and dates. Enough said.

As to sending money to K-Bank, that is only for those who are incapable of getting to an AEON ATM...which obviously includes you.

Not everyone would wish to leave their money in an unprotected institution. Run a search and you will find plenty whose money has disappeared from K-Bank's coffers.

But if you are going to recommend that method, you should at least remind them to transfer in Pounds and not Baht.

Each to his own eh? I've already covered the best cards in post #95.

I did actually 'like' your post but unfortunately made the cardinal mistake of not reading the thread in full before cutting and pasting from another thread that I had contributed to - so I apologise for that

You very much sound like a poster on another forum - and we have crossed swords over there too

I will elaborate on a couple of your points though:

NW FP - yes it does cost £120 a year but is you keep £2500 in the account you get 3% interest - which probably equates to £50 net of tax - so it actually costs around £70 a year

If you pay a one off charge of £34.50 per annum you can upgrade your insurance to as many 45 day trips as you like and again no excess to pay on anything. So you are presuming that people need to take a trip over 31 days or even 45 days

Does the Gold Card still exist for new customers as I cannot see it on their Website?

I have also gone over the point of the AEON ATM's before - if you are living there all fair and good - if you are on holiday - you are not going to walk in the heat for 15 minutes from the tourist zones to draw money or take a motorbike taxi say 80-100 baht round trip to save 70 or 80 baht on ATM fees - by all accounts people have complained about the ATM's being empty or long waiting times on occasion - so it may be for you but do not assume it works for others - they either are convenient or not - depends on the individual

And yes you may have mentioned the cards and accounts available and there are often other posts that go over the same information but I explained the reason why

As for K Bank I have read about 20 cases or so - some of them do not make sense and others have not set limits on their daily withdrawals and have been fleeced - but there are obviously thousands of others who are quite happy with K Bank - its all about how you operate your account

I am not even going to bother going over the Charles Schwab UK Account with you it would just be pointless

[Farangdam]

citibank charging zero withdraw fees if u are withdrawing from citibank atm machine which only have 2 known atm machine available in bangkok nil found in pattaya...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Your post is the biggest load of codswallop I have read in a long time.

...........

Your theory doesn't really stand up, does it? From whence do you get your favourable Interbank rates to draw up your conspiracy?

JJ, how about having a civil exchange and leaving the personal sniping behind? We're talking about banking here, after all!

As for the Interbank Exchange Rate info, the Bank of Thailand daily on its website publishes a "weighted average Interbank Exchange Rate" for the U.S. dollar vs. the Thai baht. You can see the current work day's rate, or go back to prior days...

http://www.bot.or.th/english/statistics/financialmarkets/exchangerate/_layouts/Application/ExchangeRate/ExchangeRate.aspx

Since Jim and I are Americans, the comparisons we've done over time with the various exchange rates offered by different kinds of debit cards used for ATM withdrawals, and how those compare to Thai bank rates, involve the U.S. dollar and VISA and MC logo cards.

And at least as far as U.S. dollar exchanges are concerned, VISA logo cards usually get a rate slightly lower than the IER rate, and MC cards get a rate lower than the VISA cards. That's been proven and tested many times over time by Jim, myself and other posters here.

Usually, the VISA-logo card rates are markedly better than the Thai banks' Buying TT rates. The MC logo card rates usually are better as well, although there the spread seems to be much closer and I've seen times where the two are almost identical. In part because there's considerable variation from bank to bank in the buying TT rates on any day, and the banks also can change those several times during the day... whereas the VISA / MC rates for international ATM transactions are set once a day.

I don't know about IER information for currencies other than the dollar such as the pound, or whether pound exchanges somehow have different dynamics. But we know the dynamics with U.S. dollar exchanges very well.

Edited June 26, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

citibank charging zero withdraw fees if u are withdrawing from citibank atm machine which only have 2 known atm machine available in bangkok nil found in pattaya...

There seem to be mixed reports on this..

I had used Citibank ATMs periodically over the last couple years with U.S. bank cards and drew no 150 baht fee.

But the last time I tried a couple months ago, the ATM screen popped up asking for a 150 baht fee. Others here on TV have reported the same change.

However, some posters from other countries have reported still being able to use their ATMs without any fee.

So there may be some home country card based differences at play as regards Citibank's ATMs here.

No Citibank's in Pattaya or elsewhere in Thailand. But they do have ATMs in Bangkok near BTS Asoke in the Interchange Tower, in the Silom area in the United Center Building, and at CentralWorld's banking section.

For me, AEON ATMs are far more common and easily accessible, and I know I don't have to worry about any 150b or 180b fees there.

Edited June 26, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JimGant]

Your post is the biggest load of codswallop I have read in a long time. Your theory doesn't really stand up, does it? From whence do you get your favourable Interbank rates to draw up your conspiracy?

Well, for a start, how about Bank of Thailand. Look at 24 June FX rates from BOT site:

http://www.bot.or.th/English/Statistics/FinancialMarkets/ExchangeRate/_layouts/Application/ExchangeRate/ExchangeRate.aspx

Interbank Rate (IR) is 31.116 baht to the USD. Buying TT rate is 30.973 (same as 0830 tranche at Bangkok Bank). A 15 satang spread -- typical. And Visa's rate is typically in the middle of this spread.

Then I looked at Bangkok Bank TT Rate(that would be the Interbank rate wouldn't it?)

No, as shown, IR is 10-15 satang above the TT rate -- at least in the USD context.

Now, the MasterCard site is down -- at least for me -- so let's use the Visa site info. And we'll use GBP's, not USD's:

First, I can't get a GBP IR from the BOT site. So, using Oanda, I find that on 24 June, they reported an IR of 47.788.

Now, regardless of which Bangkok Bank TT tranche you use (0830= 47.57; 1510= 47.46), there's the typical spread between TT and IR rates.

Looking at the Visa site for 24 Jun, the FX rate was .0200996, or 47.628. Just where you'd expect -- higher than the TT rate, but lower than the IR rate.

And, as you report, the MC rate for 24 Jun was similar to Visa's -- 47.635. Not too surprising when there's a volatile FX situation, as during this period, since daily snapshots of FX rates aren't synchronized -- Visa's rate is at 0001 hrs New York time, and MC's is 12 hours after that. When the IR snapshots are taken, I dunno.

Now, the MC site is back up -- and I see both Visa and MC have about the same GBP FX rate with the baht -- 47.58 on 25 June. So, maybe it's Visa USA vs. MC USA that has such an interesting gap in FX rates. And maybe the Europe Visa and MC counterparts are less competitive out-of-line....... Dunno. But, after running a several months' spreadsheet of Visa vs. MC rates -- whose averages evened-out the volatile outliers -- Visa USA definitely beat MC USA in the FX department.

If, somehow, it's different in Europe, that's interesting. But, nevertheless, there remains a spread between the Interbank Rate -- and what the Visa and MC networks are charging the cardholders. Maybe just a less screwjob by MC in Europe than what occurs in the US.......

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If, somehow, it's different in Europe, that's interesting. But, nevertheless, there remains a spread between the Interbank Rate -- and what the Visa and MC networks are charging the cardholders. Maybe just a less screwjob by MC in Europe than what occurs in the US.......

And to my thinking, even more important to the typical card user, even in pounds, clearly better rates from the VISA and MC card networks vs. the Thai banks buying TT rates.

Now the card users just have to worry about a] not using a home country bank card that charges a foreign currency fee, and b] avoiding the Thai banks that charge the 150/180b withdrawal fees.

Apart from the no-fee option available via AEON ATMs, would be interesting to hear from some UK folks about whether their cards are drawing the ATM fee at Citibank in BKK or not.

Edited June 26, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Your post is the biggest load of codswallop I have read in a long time.

...........

Your theory doesn't really stand up, does it? From whence do you get your favourable Interbank rates to draw up your conspiracy?

JJ, how about having a civil exchange and leaving the personal sniping behind? We're talking about banking here, after all!

As for the Interbank Exchange Rate info, the Bank of Thailand daily on its website publishes a "weighted average Interbank Exchange Rate" for the U.S. dollar vs. the Thai baht. You can see the current work day's rate, or go back to prior days...

http://www.bot.or.th/english/statistics/financialmarkets/exchangerate/_layouts/Application/ExchangeRate/ExchangeRate.aspx

Since Jim and I are Americans, the comparisons we've done over time with the various exchange rates offered by different kinds of debit cards used for ATM withdrawals, and how those compare to Thai bank rates, involve the U.S. dollar and VISA and MC logo cards.

And at least as far as U.S. dollar exchanges are concerned, VISA logo cards usually get a rate slightly lower than the IER rate, and MC cards get a rate lower than the VISA cards. That's been proven and tested many times over time by Jim, myself and other posters here.

Usually, the VISA-logo card rates are markedly better than the Thai banks' Buying TT rates. The MC logo card rates usually are better as well, although there the spread seems to be much closer and I've seen times where the two are almost identical. In part because there's considerable variation from bank to bank in the buying TT rates on any day, and the banks also can change those several times during the day... whereas the VISA / MC rates for international ATM transactions are set once a day.

I don't know about IER information for currencies other than the dollar such as the pound, or whether pound exchanges somehow have different dynamics. But we know the dynamics with U.S. dollar exchanges very well.

You should know that you should not be editing my quote.

Perhaps I shouldn't have jumped in so hard, but I was already irritated by the poor quality of information permeated throughout this thread.

It's one thing to quote an Interbank rate, but who actually has access to the rate that you claim is quoted by the BOT?

By all means, keep an eye on the spreads between Visa and Mastercard for the purposes of a comparison, but quoting an Interbank rate that is simply not attainable doesn't make any sense.

The Telex rate IS an Inter bank rate. Then there are off-shore and on-shore rates...

Seriously, unless you are dealing in large amounts, why should you expect to take advantage of these 'unattainable' rates? Why should they be passed on to you at no cost?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re the IER, I think those of us that follow it don't look at it as something we expect to get, but rather, as the standard against which the exchange rates we do get or see should be compared.

In other words, the closer any particular rate is to the day's IER rate, the better you're doing. It's just a signpost on the exchange rate highway.

[Timwin]

Best rates for 20000 Bahts with debit card that I have encountered:

1. Kasikorn booth, today 26th the rate was 30.108 for USD. Some booths only accept newer chip cards and you need to bring your passport.

2. AEON ATMs, can withdraw more than 20000 Baht but many times out of service (maybe because many withdraw a lot).

3. Other ATMs, some are restricted to 10000 Baht only.

4. Hotels, very lousy rates.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Timwin

[DekDaeng]

"For me, AEON ATMs are far more common and easily accessible, and I know I don't have to worry about any 150b or 180b fees there."

Sure?

Images taken on 20 Feb 2013 at Aeon ATM. First withdrawal 40,000, second 15,000. Yes, not exactly 150 baht diff. But much closer to 150 than to zero -

[lowushatin]

citibank charging zero withdraw fees if u are withdrawing from citibank atm machine which only have 2 known atm machine available in bangkok nil found in pattaya...

not true.

To all, if you want free withdrawal, go to a bank branch and ask for a 'cash advance'. If they think your card is a credit card, even if it's a debit, they will process your request. i know some banks don't charge a fee on it, such is standard chartered. you just have to wait. It appeared on my statement as a standard withdrawal.

Edited June 26, 2013 by lowushatin

[JimGant]

Seriously, unless you are dealing in large amounts, why should you expect to take advantage of these 'unattainable' rates? Why should they be passed on to you at no cost?

First, can we agree that the huge Visa and MC networks -- with their huge volume -- certainly realize a semblance of the premier Interbank Exchange Rate? In fact, their volume heavily influences this rate.

Sure, the published BOT "weighted average" IER is just that -- a single snapshot of various wholesale FX rates -- . The rate Visa and MC actually achieve -- when the money finally moves -- won't be exactly the average published rate, of course, but it will resemble it, plus or minus.

That Visa projects the daily rate it will offer to its issuing banks (at 0001 New York time), has some risk, especially in a volatile market. Thus, the published rate on-line has some hedge factor, coming in below any published IER. But, when all's said and done, they build in enough extra hedge to pocket some spread. MC builds in somewhat more hedge -- or is that greed?

So, yeah, in a single day's quote fits all situation, you wouldn't expect Visa and MC to pass on the Interbank Exchange rate to its issuing banks -- in fact, with a constantly moving IER, marrying up a predictive rate with the subsequent actual rate would not be possible. Thus, of necessity, the hedge requirement.

It's one thing to quote an Interbank rate, but who actually has access to the rate that you claim is quoted by the BOT?

Visa and MC, right? Or at least a semblance, plus or minus, of BOT's published rate (or Oanda, whomever).

The Telex rate IS an Inter bank rate.

Yeah, but not THE Interbank Exchange Rate. And is seen for lower volume EFTs. And, it's not really germane when discussing Visa and MC network transactions -- except as a benchmark for comparison, as in "the Visa rate the cardholder realizes averages 7-8 satang more than the buying TT rate."

[Sliderby]

The VISA and MC networks aren't charity, they need to make a margin or why bother being in business?

There is no "greedy" in business, up to them if MC wants more margin, some people will then prefer VISA, that's how markets work.

[slipperylobster]

oops!!! Panic Button has been jhit and I need some guidance.

The Aeon Atm located in Big C (Upstairs) failed to pay out my 17000 baht withdrawal. I checked my U.S. banking activity record (online) and noticed a withdrawal was charged for $551.48 at Carrefour 00009860 (AEON). I called an Aeon assistance number and was directed to go to their office at UD Town. They spoke to my wife, as their explanations were very confusing. First I was told that I was on the ATM too long (I was only on about 30 seconds.) Then they said everyone else that used that ATM had no problem. Then they said my magnetic stripe was not readible (impossible..its new and works everywhere else). My wife later said she thought that she heard that there was no money in the machine. I was totally aghast, and said I would file a complaint of Bank Fraud (which would be done for me at my stateside bank). The end result is that I have to wait until 9pm tonight to call my bank and explain what happened. Aeon will not help me because I am not a customer. I suppose their lack of concern is why they do not charge what the other ATMs charge. I can never risk using Aeon again. It appears the machine was broken, but they will not admit this. Am I now a victim (perhaps they think I actually lied about not getting the money). I believe that these machines must have some kind of verification of inoperation. I received no receipt ...just a warning on the screen to call the bank. (Which I will). Also told that if my bank contacted AEON, that the money would be sent back to them (no idea of how long that will take). Any advice????