Raising kids in Thailand or Uk

[slippery when wet]

Can anyone offer any advice regarding bringing up kids in Thailand versus the UK
I lived in Thailand previously (so am aware of some aspects of Thailand) but soon will be in a financial position to live in Thailand on a more permanent basis but concerned about the schooling for my children.
My children are in an excellent school in the UK but I believe the lifestyle in Thailand is far better and not so many restrictions and red tape of what can be achieved regarding running your own business.
Can anyone give any advice on cost of good Thai schools as they would need to learn Thai and I could continue with their English tuition but generally your thoughts on living in Thailand against the UK. Many thanks...slippery

[Chittychangchang]

If you have to ask the question then deep down i think you know the answer.

Your going to have to pull in a LOT of money from any business in Thailand to have the same level of education for your children.

Why gamble with your children's future?

Don't succumb to pressure from the wife about living the dream in Thailand, let her know you will retire there when the children have finished their education.

By then she will have integrated and adapted more to life in the UK.

Regards

CCC

[chonabot]

How old are your kids?

This is a big factor in the education issue.

I spent the last 2 years in Thailand and my,now, 14 year old son was in Thai education for that time.

It was an interesting period education-wise to say the least.

I actually taught at the same school, very enlightening.

Edited June 24, 2013 by chonabot

[Weatherman]

A responsible parent with your background and intentions can only afford to raise their kids in Thailand if 600,000 baht per child per year for school fees isn't that big a deal. There are only a handful of really good schools here and that's what they cost. Some charge almost as much but are much much worse, and the truly affordable ones are almost as bad as regular Thai government schools.

Assuming you don't want to put them in boarding school, this will also greatly limit your choices as to where to live.

Another alternative is home schooling, but that will be very difficult (or expensive) to do properly at the same time as earning a good living.

And you will have to ensure yourself that they don't adopt too much the negative aspects of Thai culture, although I agree they are outweighed by the positives.

[slippery when wet]

Just to let you know the background Kids 5 and 8. I am divorced so no pressure. Solely my idea, although their mother is Thai so would probably live near her as better for the children to have contact with both parents.
Oldest boy not too happy living in Uk after living in Thailand previously.
I could perhaps home teach for 6 months but if the children are going to live in and work in Thailand then they would need to go to a Thai school and learn to write Thai as well as speak it.
I believe as well as education social wellbeing and happiness has to be considered also.

[chonabot]

This is one of those topics that always creates a huge difference in opinions.

After two years in Thailand I returned to the UK but the main reason was to look after my elderly parents.

My son had a great time in Thailand and loved the schooling aspect.

Integration into Thai society is only going to happen if they attend full-time education.

Your kids will learn English just by being around you, but you will need to spend some time on their reading/writing/comprehension issues.

Education is important but people should be aware that it doesn't end at 16/18.

My own son is now doing very well in the Scottish system after two years in a government school in Isaan, but I did spend rather a lot of time teaching him on the weekends and evenings.

The social interaction he had in Thailand wih other kids has helped to make him a more rounded person IMO.

It's your life and you have to make these decisions - Good luck

Edited June 24, 2013 by chonabot

[Weatherman]

Just to let you know the background Kids 5 and 8. I am divorced so no pressure. Solely my idea, although their mother is Thai so would probably live near her as better for the children to have contact with both parents.

Oldest boy not too happy living in Uk after living in Thailand previously.

I could perhaps home teach for 6 months but if the children are going to live in and work in Thailand then they would need to go to a Thai school and learn to write Thai as well as speak it.

I believe as well as education social wellbeing and happiness has to be considered also.

Whose happiness? From my POV you will be greatly sacrificing their academic education, and of course they will choose themselves where they prefer to live once they are adults, for their tertiary stage and early careers at least back home would be much better even if they plan to settle down later in LoS. I know lots of Thais that can only speak their language because they were mostly educated overseas and they're doing very very well, perhaps sometimes treated as "outsiders" a bit by their Thailand-educated peers but they seem to be much more respected than denigrated for their superior professional backgrounds.

So I wouldn't consider the trade-off worthwhile but they're your kids.

And just noticed this:

not so many restrictions and red tape of what can be achieved regarding running your own business.

Wow, that's not something I ever thought I'd hear from a foreigner's viewpoint, never imagined things were that bad for entrepreneurs in the UK. Unless you're talking about a somewhat "risky business" operating illegally of course, but that's got its own complications here, I would think also harder for foreigners than back home.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Weatherman

[mrtoad]

It's a tricky one to be fair.

My youngest daughter 8yo is in school in Bangkok - good English programme, well run school and she loves it. We looked at moving schools to Khon Kaen, but in the end we made the decision to not disrupt her education as she is happy, and we can't fault the school. Now, when she gets to 11, the choice maybe a little different as I am keen for her to go to school in the UK as I think that would also be a great option for her. We have discussed this, and may well choose that option with her staying with my family during term time, If as is likely I will still be working in Asia.

In terms of coming from the UK - a lot of this is going to depend on where you are living, and how much you can afford to pay for school fee's - good international scholls aren't cheap, and it's almost better value to send them overseas for education as opposed to pay vastly inflated prices that International Schools charge in BKK.

[chonabot]

As a parent first and a teacher secondly, I believe that parents have just as much, if not more, of a role to play in their kids education than the school they attend. Many parents simply plonk their offspring in an expensive school and expect miracles. You need to be constantly supporting them throughout this period of their lives. If your kids have a happy social life, go to a decent enough school ( not necessarily an expensive one) and the parents do their best to reinforce the educational aspect, your children will do well in life.

When I see kids that have only spent their short life in one town or country compared to a child who has seen the world and other cultures, I know which one has a better chance of becoming a more rounded individual. Sure we can travel as adults, but our prime personality development stages are long completed by then.

Edited June 24, 2013 by chonabot

[YeahSiam]

and not so many restrictions and red tape of what can be achieved regarding running your own business.

I can't help but think you are winding us up. This has to be the worst justification I've EVER heard for moving to Thailand.

Obviously, there's no way anyone can be sure but people could be forgiven for thinking there is a far simpler explanation for your wanting to move here.

Like getting your leg over on a regular basis with good-looking girls redolent of a younger ex-wife, perhaps.

The kids are getting an excellent education in the UK and you want to uproot their lives so you can move to Thailand and get some regular trim?

Behave yourself.

You KNOW you're wrong, all day long.

Your kids' welfare comes first. Nothing more needs to be said.

[MrRealDeal]

If your kids are not especially bright it wouldn't much matter but the higher up the intellectual ladder they are the better off they would be in England.

But since their is such a lack of red tape and restrictions here I'm sure you will be just fine

[Weatherman]

As a parent first and a teacher secondly, I believe that parents have just as much, if not more, of a role to play in their kids education than the school they attend. Many parents simply plonk their offspring in an expensive school and expect miracles. You need to be constantly supporting them throughout this period of their lives. If your kids have a happy social life, go to a decent enough school ( not necessarily an expensive one) and the parents do their best to reinforce the educational aspect, your children will do well in life.

When I see kids that have only spent their short life in one town or country compared to a child who has seen the world and other cultures, I know which one has a better chance of becoming a more rounded individual. Sure we can travel as adults, but our prime personality development stages are long completed by then.

I completely agree with everything you say, except for perhaps a definition of "decent enough" but not expensive schools existing in Thailand.

I would very much like to be proven wrong believe me, and encourage anyone with positive examples to post them - not talking about kindies, I'm sure lots of those are great but full-range K12 schools. Shouldn't be against the rules as long as they're positive reviews.

I do think parents can always 100% compensate for however bad a school as long as it isn't actively causing emotional trauma. But few parents have the time, energy commitment to do so effectively, these days schools have to carry 90% of the load academically or you may as well be homeschooling, hiring live-in tutors whatever.

I think the root of the problem here is partly some parents just not putting as much value on the academic side of their kids' future, which is fair enough and a judgement call.

But the ones that really concern me are those that really do value this aspect and think that all but a few schools in Thailand actually deliver. They are accepting local word of mouth, everyone's comparing within Thailand not to back-home standards, and/or they just don't have enough background knowledge of educational issues to evaluate quality accurately.

And of course some unusually bright and motivated kids do very well despite the school not because of it.

[hotandhumid]

You really shouldn't come to this forum with a question like that, the scare mongering and general negativity is on a frightening scale. I bet you feel ike hanging yoursef now.

Do NOT ask the question about buying a house in Thailand.

Best of luckanyway. The only post I would give any value to here is the one that said it's not as black and white as what country they go to school in, it also comes down to your kids themselves and you as a parent. My Thai wife went to Thai government schools and become a nurse at Bumrungrad hospital, is very smart and speaks fluent English. On the other hand some kids educated in private schools in the UK become total failure and coke addicts. It just isn't that black and white.

[a99az]

As one poster put it you know the answer. I have just left Thailand as my kids need a good education. As an EX teacher in Thailand I feel you would be doing well to keep them in the UK. Unless you want to throw sack loads of money at a Thai school for questionable qualifications.

[Weatherman]

If you have sacks of money to throw - or more likely an employer who can write off your kids' tuition as a business expense for incenting you to come to Thailand (hey now there's an idea!)

Then the top half-dozen or so true international schools are really very very good, regularly send their graduates to the top rated unis back home - to me that's the bottom-line indicator of quality, with teacher salaries being a close second, percentage of foreigners in the student body also a good guide, teacher turnover also a good indicator of morale.

Just that the fees for a single student are more than what most of us could ever dream of affording.

You really shouldn't come to this forum with a question like that, the scare mongering and general negativity is on a frightening scale. I bet you feel ike hanging yoursef now.

Do NOT ask the question about buying a house in Thailand.

Best of luckanyway. The only post I would give any value to here is the one that said it's not as black and white as what country they go to school in, it also comes down to your kids themselves and you as a parent. My Thai wife went to Thai government schools and become a nurse at Bumrungrad hospital, is very smart and speaks fluent English. On the other hand some kids educated in private schools in the UK become total failure and coke addicts. It just isn't that black and white.

Just as with buying a house, one man's "negativity" is another's "realism", all depends on individual's circumstances, and many foreigners here make huge mistakes due to lack of knowledge and experience.

If you're OK with your kids achieving that level of success in the world then of course keep them here.

But if your child went through the training process that your wife did, and then at the age of 22 decided they'd like to be a registered nurse in the UK, I think they'd find they'd have a few more years of qualifications to earn to do so even if their spoken English was fluent.

And that's probably pretty close to the TOP level of ambition an ordinary Thai coming through the normal education system could achieve over there. How many of the western board-certified Thai physicians working at Bumrungrad came from non-rich families and only went to Thai schools until the later stages of their training?

Very very few, and they'd be very unusually bright and ambitious people too, probably have done OK from anywhere.

My kids seem to be pretty normal, so I'll try to give them every possible advantage possible to help give them a competitive advantage. Of course it will be up to them if they actually make use of it, but I'll be able to know that I've done my best and haven't sacrificed their odds for my short-term hedonistic happiness.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Weatherman

[evadgib]

......don't forget to add med insurance to the overall cost of living here. Age and/or pre existing conditions could make school fees seem a bargain!

Edited June 24, 2013 by evadgib

[AnotherOneAmerican]

And that's probably pretty close to the TOP level of ambition an ordinary Thai coming through the normal education system could achieve over there. How many of the western board-certified Thai physicians working at Bumrungrad came from non-rich families and only went to Thai schools until the later stages of their training?

Almost all of them.

Most Thai rich kids can't be bothered to put the work and time in to become doctors.

(Doctors don't get paid all that much in Thailand, so it isn't worth their while training)

Edited June 24, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[GuestHouse]

Almost all the Farang/Farang expat couples I have known over the years who have had the choice to send their kids to any school of their choosing in Thailand (at company expense) or return to their respective countries for their children to be educated back home have taken the 'back home' option. - Very usually at the age their children start high school.

Its not just about affordability, certainly not if the company pays, and its certainly not just about the school getting students into whatever university you care to mention.

There's a whole raft of cultural issues around how we each want our children to develop in school and out of school.

Schools, no matter where they are, reflect the society they are in...... Schools in Thailand reflect wider Thai society all too well for my liking.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Where they go to school depends on where they will be living and working as adults.

If you think that are going to live and work in Thailand, then they need to learn to read and write Thai in a Thai school.

If they are only ever coming to Thailand as 'tourists', then the UK is the place for them to be educated.

I am a Thai/American child who was educated in America and worked in America.

I earned heaps of money but was unhappy most of my adult life (and all my childhood).

If I could do it again, I would go back and be educated and live in Thailand.

(But then again, if I hadn't earned all that money, I might have ended up miserable in Thailand too)

Edited June 24, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[StreetCowboy]

...

And just noticed this:

not so many restrictions and red tape of what can be achieved regarding running your own business.

Wow, that's not something I ever thought I'd hear from a foreigner's viewpoint, never imagined things were that bad for entrepreneurs in the UK. Unless you're talking about a somewhat "risky business" operating illegally of course, but that's got its own complications here, I would think also harder for foreigners than back home.

I'm assuming that either he has no intention of paying any heed to the law, or he is spectacularly ill-informed.

If he wants ease of red tape, I would recommend Malaysia, Singapore or Hong Kong.

Although the best international schools in Thailand are a match for any of those countries (and equally expensive), the cheaper schools in those countries are probably better (though also probably more expensive).

SC

[StreetCowboy]

Almost all the Farang/Farang expat couples I have known over the years who have had the choice to send their kids to any school of their choosing in Thailand (at company expense) or return to their respective countries for their children to be educated back home have taken the 'back home' option. - Very usually at the age their children start high school.

Its not just about affordability, certainly not if the company pays, and its certainly not just about the school getting students into whatever university you care to mention.

There's a whole raft of cultural issues around how we each want our children to develop in school and out of school.

Schools, no matter where they are, reflect the society they are in...... Schools in Thailand reflect wider Thai society all too well for my liking.

I'm in the minority, then. We kept our children in Thailand because we thought the schooling here was the best value for money, and unless they go off the rails, the kids will have their choice of university any where in the world (depending on what we can afford). The possible overwhelming reason for moving back to the UK would be to get reduced home-rate university fees.

SX

[kikoman]

It always seems so "money is everything" approach most on posters on this forum consideration in the Education of their children, I for one would have loved for my children to have had the opportunity to go to school in Thailand, vs the educational system in the US. The lack of values or respect for others in that drug infested, materialistic school system.

No one knows my children better than I do, I know exactly what level they are being educated at as well as their ability to think on their own and have some common sense. As well as their ability to read, write and compute.

I was an elected member of the school Board because I did not like the educational system I was paying for my children to attend, So I changed what I could of it.

It is sad that illiteracy in most countries was because a person did not attend a school and was denied a formal education. In the US illiteracy is for a child that had the opportunity to a formal education and the educational system failed to teach those children the basic skills they needed to receive a better chance in life.

To state am education in the west is superior to an education in Thailand is so ethnocentric, solely based on the amount of money one is willing to pay and evaluating other educational systems based on their own cultural mores.

Our children in this world deserve more than that.

Cheers:

Edited June 24, 2013 by kikoman

[hotandhumid]

......don't forget to add med insurance to the overall cost of living here. Age and/or pre existing conditions could make school fees seem a bargain!

Most exapts don't bother with that.

[farang000999]

and not so many restrictions and red tape of what can be achieved regarding running your own business.

I can't help but think you are winding us up. This has to be the worst justification I've EVER heard for moving to Thailand.

Obviously, there's no way anyone can be sure but people could be forgiven for thinking there is a far simpler explanation for your wanting to move here.

Like getting your leg over on a regular basis with good-looking girls redolent of a younger ex-wife, perhaps.

The kids are getting an excellent education in the UK and you want to uproot their lives so you can move to Thailand and get some regular trim?

Behave yourself.

You KNOW you're wrong, all day long.

Your kids' welfare comes first. Nothing more needs to be said.

This was my initial impression as well. The line about red tape was the giveaway.

[farang000999]

The only bad thing about schooling in the West is that many of these Thais and mixed kids end up not speaking or writing Thai. I think you want to spend some of the younger years in Thailand to take care of that aspect.

Edited June 24, 2013 by farang000999

[GuestHouse]

The possible overwhelming reason for moving back to the UK would be to get reduced home-rate university fees.

SX

I don't know the circumstances under which you have come to work in Thailand, but if assigned to Thailand by a UK based company you can access UK based University fees for your children on the basis that you moved to Thailand because it was a requirement of your UK employment to do so.

Its a well hidden rule but its a rule that exists....

[GuestHouse]

It always seems so "money is everything" approach most on posters on this forum consideration in the Education of their children, I for one would have loved for my children to have had the opportunity to go to school in Thailand, vs the educational system in the US. The lack of values or respect for others in that drug infested, materialistic school system.

A couple of points. The reason it that it seems the approach is 'Money is everything" is because if you don't have or don't have access to significant amounts of money you will not get access for your children to the best education available in Thailand - And the gradient between the best and the rest is not one any parent would reasonably choose to let their children slide down if they had any other alternative.

With respect to the "The lack of values or respect for others in that drug infested, materialistic school system" while I feel this a tad harsh it is nevertheless a fairly accurate description of the problems within the Thai educational system - Depressingly, it is an accurate reflection of the top schools in Thailand.

A couple of years back an Thai sociologist released a report on the use of drugs in Bangkok's top 12 schools, she named all the schools but stated (and provided the de-personalised evidence of her research) that her study team had found wide spread drug use amongst 11 out of the top 12 schools. A very clever ploy to avoid being prosecuted for libel.

All twelve schools leapt to declare that their school was the one school that did not have a drug problem.

The Thai schools of course stuck their collective head in the sand, you'd have to stick your own head in the sand to miss the materialism and narcissism that pervades Thailand's top schools.

Respect - respect up the food line - yes they do that well.

Edited June 25, 2013 by GuestHouse

[farang000999]

How many children do you have Guesthouse? Did any of them go to high school in Thailand?

[Sayonarax]

150-200k a year.

[Sayonarax]

The possible overwhelming reason for moving back to the UK would be to get reduced home-rate university fees.

SX

I don't know the circumstances under which you have come to work in Thailand, but if assigned to Thailand by a UK based company you can access UK based University fees for your children on the basis that you moved to Thailand because it was a requirement of your UK employment to do so.

Its a well hidden rule but its a rule that exists....

reread op, clearly states he plans to run his own business