Controversial Thai monk appears on air purifier advertisement

[khaowong1]

"claiming he has supernatural power".

More like supernatural con man.

Investigate, prosecute, confiscate & lock him up.

One of the four biggie things that will get you kicked out of the monk hood, is claiming you have supernatural powers, when you don't.. If you do, no problem, if you don't and claim you do, bye bye..

I've never heard of a monk being defrocked after being employed to disperse evil spirits. There were a bunch of them called in to shoo the spirits away when Swampy was built. One shyster claimed that they had moved on 80 or so of which 50 odd were designated as being the evil variety. Christian priests are called upon to exorcise the mentally troubled. More BS.

Thai Buddhist culture believe that Monks can disperse evil spirits.. This is not the same as supernatural powers.. Even most Christian pastors, preachers believe they can disperse evil spirits. Why they all think they can do this, I have no clue.

[khaowong1]

What a pity this conversation is only in English. Locals could develop some much needed awareness regarding their own culture.

Ha Ha ... I tell them all the time, the Thai's that is, but they just laugh at me.. the Thai's really believe that their form of Buddhism is the only true Buddhism in the world. When you try and enlighten them that they are wrong, they give you the old, you are farang and don't understand Thailand thingy. I've been to ceremonies with other country's monks present, Vietnamese, Sri Lanka, Tibet, and the Thai monks treat them like they were 2nd rate monks. Sometimes it's embarrasing.

[Lobo4819]

I find it interesting that some of the critics of the monk in question are members of other religions, who no doubt believe fully in what their "leaders" tell them and will continue to follow their instructions.

And you know this how?

Moreover, while I have little good to say about ANY religion (which is another topic and I won't go into it) just as there are Buddhists who disapprove of people like this monk and who make a sincere effort to adhere to the true teachings of the Buddha, there are Christians (or Muslims et al) who are equally devout and "authentic" and who have no time for charlatans and those who pervert their respective religions for personal gain and/or power etc.

In other words, just as a Buddhist should be free to criticize this monk, so should a Christian - unless that Christian is a follower of an equally fraudulent preacher; and there are no grounds to claim that all Christians are.

Your comparison is fallacious and the hypocrisy you imply is not a given.

SteelJoe, you busted me. My statements, some of them, were perhaps overgeneralized. My thesis was predicated on the number of responses to the OP, the variety of responses, and an "assumption" that within those respondents there would be a normal curve of religious representation (except that the Muslims were conspicuously absent). On this and other posts about religion and/or Buddhism, I see the Christian element often eager to to condemn the ways of the wayward "Thai Buddhists" without looking over their collective shoulders. The rest we can chalk up to my personal experience and development over the years. But thanks for pointing out the error in my argument.

[Somtamnication]

Seriously, you can't make this sh!t up. Not even Monty Python could have written this sketch.

[Lobo4819]

Though his behavior is abhorrent, he is doing nothing that the slick leaders of ALL religions are doing.You must first understand that religions are a farce - they were all formed as a means of social control in collusion with the political element and a way to bend the minds of the people to the will of the powerful. That he flaunts it with impunity and continues to gather more money just confirms who the leaders are and who are the sheep. It's been like this since the beginning of recorded history, and the good teachings of any real enlightened individuals are always turned toward fleecing them of their money and and feeding the perversions of "righteous". All this negative publicity will blow over, and he will be the richer for it. The politicians are afraid that if he is taken to task, they will be next - but it won't happen, here in Thailand or anywhere else in the world. It reminds me of one of the pioneer television evangelists who asked his followers to put their hands on the television set and pray, then send him all their money. He had quite a following.

I find it interesting that some of the critics of the monk in question are members of other religions, who no doubt believe fully in what their "leaders" tell them and will continue to follow their instructions. The Catholics are the worst, but the rest are not far behind.

Sounds like you have made a very deep study of the subject. Did you start it with an open mind?

An open mind when? As a child when I was first exposed to Christianity? As an adult when evaluating and experiencing different religions and forms of belief? When writing the post? Of your 10,266 posts in the past 800+/- days, was your mind open and processing with total acuity each and every one? I put forth my opinion and observations, and you are free to comment, but please reply with some substance to your comments instead of just starting a pi$$ing contest. The psychology of religion is something that I have in fact studied in some depth over the years, and have experiences to back up my personal positions. And yes, we all enter this life with an open mind. Some of us use that mind and some of us just make excessive non-substantive posts.

[annabel]

So much for helping to feed and clothe the poor.

Sorry Kamahele, but Buddhist monks don't feed and clothe the poor.. very often.. Buddhist monks job is to feed and clothe your spirit.

Sorry but you also got this one wrong..... Buddhist monk's jobs are to be fed and clothed in a very healthy / wealthy way.... in return for a house, car, Ipod, Lap top .... or whatever blessing you require from them on your new purchased item .... and / or even for just a simple little blessing to make your life ritcher and better or to ask for forgiveness for your daily / weekly crimes so you can move on without guilt and on and on ..... lovely little soap opera which is basically the same as the Hindy daily practices of Poojas everyday to the favorite God to make sure you go to heaven if god forbid you should die that very same day .. no matter what evil you did in the last 24 hours !

[kurnell]

How is he any different from a horde of yank evangelists? Or kiddy diddling catholic priests for that matter?

He's not.

And?

And I love you so

[kurnell]

How is he any different from a horde of yank evangelists? Or kiddy diddling catholic priests for that matter?

How is he different from 'diddling catholic priests'?

Has he been accused/found guilty of paedophilia?

Clearly not getting my drift are yer mate. Ethics wise sunshine!

[Thai at Heart]

The joke here is that to many Thais he is successful because he is holy. Either he had good karma in a past life or Buddha just thinks he is awesome.

He's just doing what other religions have done for years. If you are stupid enough to give money to this guy--oh well.

I think he is possibly in the wrong business.

[SteeleJoe]

I find it interesting that some of the critics of the monk in question are members of other religions, who no doubt believe fully in what their "leaders" tell them and will continue to follow their instructions.

And you know this how?

Moreover, while I have little good to say about ANY religion (which is another topic and I won't go into it) just as there are Buddhists who disapprove of people like this monk and who make a sincere effort to adhere to the true teachings of the Buddha, there are Christians (or Muslims et al) who are equally devout and "authentic" and who have no time for charlatans and those who pervert their respective religions for personal gain and/or power etc.

In other words, just as a Buddhist should be free to criticize this monk, so should a Christian - unless that Christian is a follower of an equally fraudulent preacher; and there are no grounds to claim that all Christians are.

Your comparison is fallacious and the hypocrisy you imply is not a given.

SteelJoe, you busted me. My statements, some of them, were perhaps overgeneralized. My thesis was predicated on the number of responses to the OP, the variety of responses, and an "assumption" that within those respondents there would be a normal curve of religious representation (except that the Muslims were conspicuously absent). On this and other posts about religion and/or Buddhism, I see the Christian element often eager to to condemn the ways of the wayward "Thai Buddhists" without looking over their collective shoulders. The rest we can chalk up to my personal experience and development over the years. But thanks for pointing out the error in my argument.

What a pleasant surprise: a poster reasonable and secure enough to acknowledge error and a criticism without rancor...

Kudos.

Anyway, I still don't necessarily entirely agree with your posit - but it's now a sound one and I appreciate the way you've framed it above.

[SteeleJoe]

How is he any different from a horde of yank evangelists? Or kiddy diddling catholic priests for that matter?

He's not.

And?

Well, he is because he hasn't been shown to be a paedo - do you know something we don't?

I didn't take the question as literally as you apparently did and I suspect you misunderstood the point the poster was trying to make (ie "western clerics are as bad or worse").

Me, I understood it but didn't understand why he was making it. Still don't (unless it's good old guilty white liberal moral relativism and/or another knee jerk defender of all things Thai...)

[khaowong1]

We're having a lot of fun here trashing this monk, as we probably should be, but we forget sometimes that of the 200,000 plus monks in Thailand, there's only a few that are like this. Most of us live very simple lives. But, we still get painted with the same brush. Just like in most other religions, there are always those that don't seem to be in it but for the money. I've flown out of Bangkok in my robes many times and never have been offered a special room to wait. I've never been in a private jet. I've never ridden in a expensive auto. I've never been given more than a 100 baht a week for anything. I live in a rundown, termite infested wood monks hut. I don't have expensive luggage, bought mine at Walmart. I wear sunglasses I bought at Walgreens for 19.95. My notebook is about 4 years old and missing some keys. My cell phone is 2nd hand and worth about 20 bucks. I eat what food is offered to me on alms rounds in the morning. And I truly don't know any monks in Thailand or the US who live any different. That's about all I have to say on the matter. Do I think this particular monk should be repriminded, yes. He's giving the rest of us a bad name. But, like the Buddha said, and Jesus also as I recall, we should look at our own faults, not at the faults of others.

[hellodolly]

Another one of the so called "good people" of Thailand raping the naivety and superstition of his fellow contrymen for his own benefit.

Clearly the goal of the Thai government is to restrict access to real education for the masses. This is in keeping with their strategy to easily control the masses, and to loot the country at will. This monk is simply taking advantage of the same system......

Religions explained >>>>>>>>>>>

Catholicism: Give us money, and we will prevent you from going to hell.

Buddhism: Give us money, and we will shower you with good luck.

Catholicism: Big angry guy up in the sky who is in full charge

and keeps careful track of what everybody does.

Buddhism: A series of teachings, none of which the Thai seem to

follow except for perhaps a few forest monks.

For such a blind man you sure have a funny name. Or is it just a wish you have?

My position is crystal clear regarding charlatans like this man fleecing poor people out of their money with false hope. To amuse myself, what exactly is your position again ??? :-) Regarding my board name, it is my statement to see the world for what it is, rather than have other people tell me what they want me to see. Your board name is from a musical, I have no idea what is up with that......You see a musical theme in things ?? LOL.

I am having a hard time seeing where he fleeced the poor Thai's out of the money to buy a private Jet.

My position is from experience. I had 9 and 1/2 years of Catholic schooling I don't recall being tought what you claim they say.

I do how ever remember many conversations in bars to that effect.

The facts are all religions and I am including Buddhism here have bad people in them. They also have good people in them. The same as the atheists they have good people in them and bad people in them.

I make no claim that the Catholic church is any thing other than what it is a church with members who are human beings.

I would love to see the trend this thread would have taken if it had been about Mother Theresa. Would you be talking about how all religions are selfless or would you be looking for points about her you didn't like.

I am quite sure this monk is a fake but I am not going to condemn all of Buddhism for it. They have many fine people in the Temples. Who people who don't even know them look down on as being fools.

I should not have to mention these things if your eyes are wide open.

Maybe they are but you choose only to see what you want to see.

[vijer]

Since I was 8 I have seen religion as revered organized stealing. Stealing from the brainless, but stealing just the same. Oh thank you father for giving such a great sermon here's $50.

[EyesWideOpen]

HelloDolly.....

"I am quite sure this monk is a fake but I am not going to condemn all of Buddhism for it."

I find it fascinating that Hello Dolly is postulating that this monk may be " fake". He is doing exactly what every other monk is doing, which is to sit there in an orange robe, and take money from people in exchange for showering them with good luck and driving evil spirits away. Since no monk can prove the efficacy of these twin endeavors of control over luck and evil spirits, it would then be impossible to say one monk is fake , and another is not. He is simply very good at getting money out of people, and has brought a fire storm onto organized Buddhism here in Thailand. I suspect the upper ranks are not very happy.....

Edited June 26, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[rogerdee123]

Undoubtedly a rice miller in drag

[Sing_Sling]

How is he any different from a horde of yank evangelists? Or kiddy diddling catholic priests for that matter?

He's not.

And?

Well, he is because he hasn't been shown to be a paedo - do you know something we don't?

I didn't take the question as literally as you apparently did and I suspect you misunderstood the point the poster was trying to make (ie "western clerics are as bad or worse").

Me, I understood it but didn't understand why he was making it. Still don't (unless it's good old guilty white liberal moral relativism and/or another knee jerk defender of all things Thai...)

I can see that I am not the only one to take the initial post by kurnell literally - after all, this is a forum based on the written word and I certainly didn't misunderstand the intent of the post in general.

There are many valid comparatives to sue, but kiddy-fiddling is not one in this context

[SteeleJoe]

HelloDolly.....

He is doing exactly what every other monk is doing, which is to sit there in an orange robe, and take money from people in exchange for showering them with good luck and driving evil spirits away...

You are quite simply and indisputably wrong in that sentence.

[Payboy]

What a larf!

[jaapfries]

This man is a lot of things, but a 'True' Buddhist isn't one of them, let alone a "monk" ! ! !

He hasn't even grasped the most basic principles of Buddhism - and that's his sad loss.

[SteeleJoe]

He hasn't even grasped the most basic principles of Buddhism - and that's his sad loss.

In that he is no different from many, many people who call themselves Buddhist.

[redroo]

Monkey see monkey do

[redroo]

Aren't they suppose to break the karmic cycle by abandoning all material possesions and fisical desires ?

i guese he will be sent back as a ....

Edited June 27, 2013 by redroo

[hellodolly]

HelloDolly.....

He is doing exactly what every other monk is doing, which is to sit there in an orange robe, and take money from people in exchange for showering them with good luck and driving evil spirits away...

You are quite simply and indisputably wrong in that sentence.

His eyes are wide open he sees what he wants to see.

I by no means am a Bible thumper. In fact I have never read more than 10% of it.

But does it not say some thing like

You have eyes and yet you can not see

You have ears and yet you can not hear,

[EyesWideOpen]

HelloDolly.....

He is doing exactly what every other monk is doing, which is to sit there in an orange robe, and take money from people in exchange for showering them with good luck and driving evil spirits away...

You are quite simply and indisputably wrong in that sentence.

No. You have your opinion , and I have mine. Mine is based upon reality,

yours is based upon beliefs. If beliefs work for you, that is fine. However ,my life is based upon using the rational part of my brain to interact with the world , and to see things how they actually are. Basing your life upon beliefs opens you up to charlatans such as this one... But don't worry, you are not alone, you have millions of fellow believers. :-)

Edited June 27, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[SteeleJoe]

HelloDolly.....

He is doing exactly what every other monk is doing, which is to sit there in an orange robe, and take money from people in exchange for showering them with good luck and driving evil spirits away...

You are quite simply and indisputably wrong in that sentence.

No. You have your opinion , and I have mine. Mine is based upon reality,

yours is based upon beliefs. If beliefs work for you, that is fine. However ,my life is based upon using the rational part of my brain to interact with the world , and to see things how they actually are. Basing your life upon beliefs opens you up to charlatans such as this one... But don't worry, you are not alone, you have millions of fellow believers. :-)

real world. To do otherwise is to forsake a integral

You make an odd and completely unfounded assumption.

It is a simple and indisputable fact that not every other monk "sit(s) there in an orange robe, and take money from people in exchange for showering them with good luck and driving evil spirits away". The fact that you make such a statement with such assurance and then stick by it just shows that you are somewhat ignorant of the topic. That is not opinion, it is fact.

What is my opinion? I expressed none in that post. What is my belief? I have none (or at least not a religious one).

Please explain how and why you think that I do not also base my interaction with the world on ration (with the inevitable and not always undesireable element of emotions or "instincts") or that I am among "millions of fellow believers".

Edited June 27, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[EyesWideOpen]

HelloDolly.....

He is doing exactly what every other monk is doing, which is to sit there in an orange robe, and take money from people in exchange for showering them with good luck and driving evil spirits away...

You are quite simply and indisputably wrong in that sentence.

His eyes are wide open he sees what he wants to see.

I by no means am a Bible thumper. In fact I have never read more than 10% of it.

But does it not say some thing like

You have eyes and yet you can not see

You have ears and yet you can not hear,

Wow, devout people on TV. Who would have thought that ??? By the way,

quoting select passages from the bible is a pretty lame position to take.

Since the topic is Buddhism, how about a quote from the Dali Lama ??

That would be a bit more topical.......

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-faith/post/basic-buddhism-a-philosophy-not-a-religion/2011/07/08/gIQAbLkZ3H_blog.html

The Dalai Lama, who is in Washington, DC for a ten day event, has written: “I have come to the conclusion that whether or not a person is a religious believer does not matter much. Far more important is that they be a good human being.”. . . “That is why I sometimes say that religion is something we can perhaps do without.”

Edited June 27, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[SteeleJoe]

HelloDolly.....

He is doing exactly what every other monk is doing, which is to sit there in an orange robe, and take money from people in exchange for showering them with good luck and driving evil spirits away...

You are quite simply and indisputably wrong in that sentence.

His eyes are wide open he sees what he wants to see.

I by no means am a Bible thumper. In fact I have never read more than 10% of it.

But does it not say some thing like

You have eyes and yet you can not see

You have ears and yet you can not hear,

Roughly that sentiment is in the bible a few times, yes. So what? I mean, no offense but why would you cite the bible in an argument with a non believer? It's not likely to convince him (or me) of much, is it? (I assumed you recall my previous discussion with you on religion? You seemed to ate some offense at the time, even though I was perfectly civil, at the fact that I had some critical comments to make and some questions regarding the beliefs of others...)

[hellodolly]

HelloDolly.....

He is doing exactly what every other monk is doing, which is to sit there in an orange robe, and take money from people in exchange for showering them with good luck and driving evil spirits away...

You are quite simply and indisputably wrong in that sentence.

His eyes are wide open he sees what he wants to see.

I by no means am a Bible thumper. In fact I have never read more than 10% of it.

But does it not say some thing like

You have eyes and yet you can not see

You have ears and yet you can not hear,

Roughly that sentiment is in the bible a few times, yes. So what? I mean, no offense but why would you cite the bible in an argument with a non believer? It's not likely to convince him (or me) of much, is it? (I assumed you recall my previous discussion with you on religion? You seemed to ate some offense at the time, even though I was perfectly civil, at the fact that I had some critical comments to make and some questions regarding the beliefs of others...)

Truth be known if that particular saying had come from the Wizard of Oz I would have still put it up there. I live in the real world. In the real world there are a lot of things we have no answers for but that does not mean the questions are not there. Opinions there are plenty answers none.

Here is a question for you. You seem to agree with me that eyes wide open is missing a lot. Why does it bother you what book I got in my opinion an appropriate phrase from?

I just said the Bible I don't know which book it was in but in the real world I have observed it to be true at times. This was one of them. You are correct it means nothing to him. Also I was not trying to convince you of any thing with it.

Edit

It is true for me at times also.

Edited June 27, 2013 by hellodolly

[Thai at Heart]

I am having a hard time reconciling the fact that he should have refused this profusion of donations.

How he had used them is maybe his fault, but if someone donates him a Louis Vuitton bag who is he to say no?

I would rather understand why apparently this avalanche of monetary donation which has little or no value in Buddhism has occurred.

Wouldn't the donaters have been better off spiritually to use it to help people directly? Why should in Buddhism it be targeted towards a monk or temple? Surely getting off your lazy ass to do it yourself has to be better than giving it to someone else to do it for you?

Edited June 27, 2013 by Thai at Heart