No BA / Teaching License / Married Thai w/ children

[aidenai]

I was told from someone that if I'm working on my BA currently that I could get another temporary license. I will call and confirm if this is true. For I will enroll in school and work on getting my BA soon sometime next month.

IMHO it's wishful thinking. The requirements when applying for a provisional teaching permit of The Teachers' Council of Thailand state

Hold a Bachelor’s degree which benefits education, and it must be certified by either the Teachers’ Council of Thailand (TCT) or the Teacher Civil Service and Educational Personnel Commission (TEPC) or the Civil Service Commission (CSC) or shown in the list at The World of ALMANAC (the applicant may check your degree certification at www.ksp.or.th by selecting “professional license section, foreign teacher’s qualification check” or at the website of TEPC or CSC).

[Ajarn Shaun]

If you get the work permit and the only problem you have is getting the extension of stay you could get a multiple entry non-o visa based upon having a Thai wife in Savannakhet Laos with no financial proof.

It would mean doing border runs every 90 days but it may be your only option.

Many of you say to get a multiple Non-O and get the work permit. Then continue teaching without the teaching license. I'm sorry, but I will " not " do this. It's like driving a car without a license. Sure you have insurance and all the other paperwork. But it just doesn't feel right. Even " if " nobody checks to see if I have a license doesn't mean it's right for me to keep teaching. My " only " options are to find a school that doesn't require a Bachelor's degree or work for a foreign company. Many of you are right. I'm stuck and I'm going to make the right decision. That is to find work somewhere else and continue my education. Once I'm enrolled in school I plan to also enroll in a Thai language school. That way I can stay in Thailand and learn a new language. How does everyone feel about this decision? Anyone have anymore ideas for me? Thanks!

- could also get multiple Non-O and do boarder runs every 3 months while working on my bachelor's online - I'd rather spend the money on learning Thai and getting the education visa.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Ajarn Shaun

[SlyAnimal]

I was told from someone that if I'm working on my BA currently that I could get another temporary license. I will call and confirm if this is true. For I will enroll in school and work on getting my BA soon sometime next month.

I think that this was how they did things 2 years ago. As 2 years ago, one of the teachers at my school was able to get a letter from krusapa on that basis, however from what I've read this/last year, this is no longer the case.

[aidenai]

I was told from someone that if I'm working on my BA currently that I could get another temporary license. I will call and confirm if this is true. For I will enroll in school and work on getting my BA soon sometime next month.

I think that this was how they did things 2 years ago. As 2 years ago, one of the teachers at my school was able to get a letter from krusapa on that basis, however from what I've read this/last year, this is no longer the case.

Things have changed since the requirements were written down in April and September 2012.

[Ajarn Shaun]

Thank you all. I can see that my options of teaching in Thailand are dwindling. Especially in the location where I want to live. It's going to be hard to find a place that will hire me. I'm tired of teaching anyways. I only did it so I could live here with my wife and children. I'm currently looking for alternatives. I do not have the funds to start school in Thailand. I will start school online in America. Wish me luck in my endeavors. Wish it could be easier for us to live here and take care of our loved ones. If things don't work out for me here. There's always the option of going back to America and work hard to get my wife and children there. But, alas it's going to be hard to find work there also. Looks like another " fork struck in the road " moment in life for me.

[pastafarian]

If you have a valid visa and work permit for where you are employed then it is not illegal to teach without a teacher's license. But if you don't enjoy teaching and only did it to stay in Thailand then probably better, for you and your students, to look at other options. Good luck!

Edited June 30, 2013 by pastafarian

[aidenai]

If you have a valid visa and work permit for where you are employed then it is not illegal to teach without a teacher's license. But if you don't enjoy teaching and only did it to stay in Thailand then probably better, for you and your students, to look at other options. Good luck!

Well said, pastafarian.

[culicine]

If you have a valid visa and work permit for where you are employed then it is not illegal to teach without a teacher's license. But if you don't enjoy teaching and only did it to stay in Thailand then probably better, for you and your students, to look at other options. Good luck!

Well said, pastafarian.

Sadly, for many of us, teaching is our only option here. I don't have the desire to run any kind of business here, as I'm not business inclined. Fortunately I enjoy teaching and also did a Grad Dip Ed while living here. Things have worked out well.

For the OP, I guess teaching in a language school is the main options. I strongly to suggest to get a bachelor degree.

[aidenai]

If you have a valid visa and work permit for where you are employed then it is not illegal to teach without a teacher's license. But if you don't enjoy teaching and only did it to stay in Thailand then probably better, for you and your students, to look at other options. Good luck!

Well said, pastafarian.

Sadly, for many of us, teaching is our only option here. I don't have the desire to run any kind of business here, as I'm not business inclined. Fortunately I enjoy teaching and also did a Grad Dip Ed while living here. Things have worked out well.

For the OP, I guess teaching in a language school is the main options. I strongly to suggest to get a bachelor degree.

I know, culicine and that was not what pastafarian or I were pointing at. It was OP's statement that OP 's tired of teaching, thus not enoying the profession.

[pastafarian]

If you have a valid visa and work permit for where you are employed then it is not illegal to teach without a teacher's license. But if you don't enjoy teaching and only did it to stay in Thailand then probably better, for you and your students, to look at other options. Good luck!

Well said, pastafarian.

Sadly, for many of us, teaching is our only option here. I don't have the desire to run any kind of business here, as I'm not business inclined. Fortunately I enjoy teaching and also did a Grad Dip Ed while living here. Things have worked out well.

For the OP, I guess teaching in a language school is the main options. I strongly to suggest to get a bachelor degree.

I know, culicine and that was not what pastafarian or I were pointing at. It was OP's statement that OP 's tired of teaching, thus not enoying the profession.

Exactly! There are far too many people teaching here who'd rather they weren't, many only do it as it is their only way to stay here but the kids deserve better than that. It is many people's only option here but they should at least be enjoying it/making an effort otherwise it is their students that will suffer.

I came here with my English girlfriend to teach for 1yr, during that 1yr we split up but I enjoyed teaching so much I stayed. Now, after 5yrs, I still enjoy it and have a wife and child but I don't teach just so I can stay, I teach because I enjoy it but will stop if/when I don't.

[brucetefl]

There are many people around the world who have jobs they do not necessarily enjoy. This does not mean they should not do them (many have no other options) or cannot do them well.

[Scott]

An off-topic post was deleted.

[Rhys]

Focus on doing the right thing... get the BA

[Ajarn Shaun]

Thanks for your great posts (and not so great) ones. Yes, I do enjoy teaching. I just can't stand the curruption here at some of these schools. Especilally, the one I'm working at now. Here is an update on finding work. There is school in Bangkok telling that they are a private school. That a BA is not required nor a teaching license. I would teach kindergarden children. They said that they have two guys from South Africa who work their without a BA or teaching license. They are not married and have worked there for 3+ years. They do have 1 year non-B visas. My question is, can I obtain a 1 year visa at a private school just like them? Would the process of obtaining a 1 year visa go like this:

1. interview at the school and get accepted.

2. bring school papers and required documents to Loas for NON-B visa (no BA, no teaching license)

3. return with NON-B and start working for the school.

4. after 3 months extend the NON-B for 1 year at immagration office. (again, not showing proof of BA, teaching license).

So, working at a private school or laguange center will give me a 1 year visa right? or will immagration office still want me to show a teaching license? How do these private schools work? Is it really ' up to them ' ?

[Scott]

Most of the people I know who do not have a Bachelor's degree but do have a non-immigrant B visa have gotten it through less than legal means. It is generally not associated with the school and there is no work permit.

[Phatcharanan]

Seriously............your best option is to concentrate on how you are going to graduate with a BA.

[SlyAnimal]

They do have 1 year non-B visas. My question is, can I obtain a 1 year visa at a private school just like them? Would the process of obtaining a 1 year visa go like this:

1. interview at the school and get accepted.

2. bring school papers and required documents to Loas for NON-B visa (no BA, no teaching license)

3. return with NON-B and start working for the school.

4. after 3 months extend the NON-B for 1 year at immagration office. (again, not showing proof of BA, teaching license).

Yep that is pretty much how it would go, except that you'd also need to get your work permit (you could insert that somewhere in between 2 and 4). As if you want to be legal, it's the work permit which is more important than the visa.

And yes, if as you say, your situation is similar to theirs (e.g. no degree), and they do indeed have Non Bs + work permits, you should be able to get the same. As the school will have a system for it. I work at a government school, so am not as upto date on which requirements might be eased at private schools, however even at a government school it's legally possible, via a legal loophole, to get a work permit without a degree.

If you want to live + teach longterm in Thailand though, then your best course of action, is to start looking at how you can obtain a bachelor's degree. As otherwise you potentially might get caught unprepared when they next decide to tighten regulations.

[Ajarn Shaun]

For those who keep posting ' focus on getting a BA degree ' I'd like to tell them that I've been applying to many online schools already and hope to enroll this Fall. That still doesn't fix any current problems. I did search and contacted many schools in Thailand and talked with many foreigners working there. I kept getting the same answers. Here is an email I just received from one of the schools.... Hi Shaun, good day! sorry I was not able to contact to you right awayt. We review your credentials that you have sent to us, and we can offer you a teaching job in Panuspittiyakarn School in Chonburi. It is a government school, for secondary level (M1-M6), and work load will be 23 hours or less. We are able to provide you a non-b visa, but since you don't have a Bachelor's Degree we can provide a non-B visa for you but work permit we cant provide. We provide assistance in processing the non-b visa for documents only.

Which means I would be working for them illegally without the work permit. I've decided to start my wife's ir-1 visa and get the kids passports. Time for all of us to move to America. Sad that we couldn't stay here any longer. I will really miss the kids I was currently teaching. They all cried and didn't want me to leave. Thanks again for everyones help. Hope things in Thailand get better for ya.

[Scott]

Chonburi is one of the more accommodating provinces when it comes to helping teachers who are less than qualified.

I know a teacher who actually gets his non-B visa based on paperwork provided directly by the Ministry of Education which allows him to work anywhere in the area. When I spoke with the lady who helped him (and apparently quite a few others), she said, "we need good teachers here and I just help make sure we have them." And, by the way, she doesn't charge anything...not 1 baht.

[aidenai]

Which means I would be working for them illegally without the work permit. I've decided to start my wife's ir-1 visa and get the kids passports. Time for all of us to move to America. Sad that we couldn't stay here any longer. I will really miss the kids I was currently teaching. They all cried and didn't want me to leave. Thanks again for everyones help. Hope things in Thailand get better for ya.

Best of luck Shaun. I hope you'll find work in the US and will be able to get your family to there.

Edited August 8, 2013 by aidenai

[onlycw]

I am sorry for the OP. This 40,000 B threshhold is really tough because most Thai families with one breadwinner would stay below that, too.

Here is the TCT with its tough rules and then there is the reality of what goes down in real life.

• How many directors employ folks on T-Visa / with bad English and certainly neither a degree nor any hope of scoring 600 or higher in a TOEIC test?
• But hey, they love it when the foreigners work for 15,000 Baht!!
• Some knowingly accept fake degrees.
• One school doesn't do Non-Immigrant B-Visas, WPs and all that other stuff - and when I found this out after 6 weeks on the job, they wanted me to join the others working on Tourist Visa. (But the sordid tale doesn't stop here as many schools are too greedy to pay even for time worked).

Then there are hordes of non-NES of whom many would struggle to get >600 in a TOEIC test. Are they all asked to follow the letter of the law?!?

Shawn: Can someone tell you whether you could get a job in a neighboring country? What about China?

Disclaimer: I haven't read the whole thread yet. But there appear to be legal loopholes your school might exploit:

1. giving your job a different description. "Education consultant"?
2. turning your contract into a "part-time" one seems to mean your school won't need to involve the TCT.

^^^^^

Q: Could someone remind me of the cost of those professional tests again? (And share his opinion regarding actual cost versus the amount billed)?

At presently 24,400 Baht net after the 600 B matched deduction for SS (none for taxes - a previous school deducted 600 for taxes and I got it all back), the TCT makes their waiver dependent on me passing that test - only this time it appears to be the one offered by the British Council @ 6,000 Baht. <deleted>?

The writing is on the wall.

The combination of extremely low salaries with mounting hassles will let many check out alternatives to working in Thailand.

And now we could start a discussion about non-NES with a score of >600 vs genuine NES. There was a European who took some test in Canada with the result that some piece of paper stated he was almost (but not quite?) a NES. The agency we were with had us all in a hotel in Lopburi and there we met some British teachers. BBC English, truly fluently spoken - for starters twice as rapidly. And then this guy stroking up a conversation with his bad accent and haltingly, while speaking very loudly. - You get the cringe worthy situation. Yours truly realized that not in a million years would he match a cultured British teacher's English. Enough said.

[onlycw]

Ajarn Shaun: What's wrong with a WP? Why are you so rigid about it? IF you can get the B-Visa and a WP and Immigration grants you the 90 day reporting thing, then you would be working legally.

There are countless others who would kill for a WP, figuratively speaking.

But then, there are these rural schools charging 700 Baht for each foreign teacher - and who supervises their accounting?!? My views on some of the things which are going on here are not printable. How come some government schools need not resort to such methods?

• But then, there are hundreds "schools" without any students.
• At my school, all PCs in the library are non-operational. Keyboards, mice, RAM memory. But hey, we have full time IT professionals and 5,000 Baht would do nicely to get them all working again!!
• Smoke that in your pipes!!

[sirchai]

I am sorry for the OP. This 40,000 B threshhold is really tough because most Thai families with one breadwinner would stay below that, too.

Here is the TCT with its tough rules and then there is the reality of what goes down in real life.

• How many directors employ folks on T-Visa / with bad English and certainly neither a degree nor any hope of scoring 600 or higher in a TOEIC test?
• But hey, they love it when the foreigners work for 15,000 Baht!!
• Some knowingly accept fake degrees.
• One school doesn't do Non-Immigrant B-Visas, WPs and all that other stuff - and when I found this out after 6 weeks on the job, they wanted me to join the others working on Tourist Visa. (But the sordid tale doesn't stop here as many schools are too greedy to pay even for time worked).

Then there are hordes of non-NES of whom many would struggle to get >600 in a TOEIC test. Are they all asked to follow the letter of the law?!?

Shawn: Can someone tell you whether you could get a job in a neighboring country? What about China?

Disclaimer: I haven't read the whole thread yet. But there appear to be legal loopholes your school might exploit:

1. giving your job a different description. "Education consultant"?
2. turning your contract into a "part-time" one seems to mean your school won't need to involve the TCT.

^^^^^

Q: Could someone remind me of the cost of those professional tests again? (And share his opinion regarding actual cost versus the amount billed)?

At presently 24,400 Baht net after the 600 B matched deduction for SS (none for taxes - a previous school deducted 600 for taxes and I got it all back), the TCT makes their waiver dependent on me passing that test - only this time it appears to be the one offered by the British Council @ 6,000 Baht. <deleted>?

The writing is on the wall.

The combination of extremely low salaries with mounting hassles will let many check out alternatives to working in Thailand.

And now we could start a discussion about non-NES with a score of >600 vs genuine NES. There was a European who took some test in Canada with the result that some piece of paper stated he was almost (but not quite?) a NES. The agency we were with had us all in a hotel in Lopburi and there we met some British teachers. BBC English, truly fluently spoken - for starters twice as rapidly. And then this guy stroking up a conversation with his bad accent and haltingly, while speaking very loudly. - You get the cringe worthy situation. Yours truly realized that not in a million years would he match a cultured British teacher's English. Enough said.

Then there are hordes of non-NES of whom many would struggle to get >600 in a TOEIC test. Are they all asked to follow the letter of the law?!?

And now we could start a discussion about non-NES with a score of >600 vs genuine NES. There was a European who took some test in Canada with the result that some piece of paper stated he was almost (but not quite?) a NES.

Yours truly realized that not in a million years would he match a cultured British teacher's English. Enough said.

onlycw, I can smell a raspberry and your post shows quite a lot of ignorance. "There's a European who took...."...Isn't the UK a part of Europe?

​What's a "cultured British teacher"? Could you please explain that? Just speaking a language doesn't make you to a teacher of that language. Ever thought about that?

​I certainly agree that people with a lower TOEIC score than 800 shouldn't be allowed to teach English.

"The Queens" English is the easiest to understand for learners of English and people from other countries, teaching English around the world. I've experienced that pretty often that American'teachers' couldn't understand a British 'teacher'. How should little kids understand them???

Would you call "Cockney" English a language everybody has to understand? Or Scottish? Etc....

I'm a non native English speaker myself, but grew up in a bilingual environment,using English and German from early childhood on. But I hold a German passport. ( I did score 865 in my TOEIC even after a sleepless night on the train)

I've seen teachers from the UK who couldn't teach Thai kids and quit their jobs after two months. Others who spelled Wednesday without ne and so on.

Don't you think that teaching English particularly in Thailand, needs more than the ability to have a good command in spoken and written English?-

[aidenai]

Q: Could someone remind me of the cost of those professional tests again?

Four sections. 1,000 THB each. 30 THB for the online application.

(And share his opinion regarding actual cost versus the amount billed)?

Apologise. I don't understand what you're saying there.

the TCT makes their waiver dependent on me passing that test - only this time it appears to be the one offered by the British Council @ 6,000 Baht. <deleted>?

I think you're mixing things up, mate.

To be eligible for a TCT teacher license provided you don't hold a degree in education or a graduate diploma in education you must:

• have passed all sections of the Professional Knowledge Test
• have sat the Thai Language, Culture and Ethics course

One of above requirements also apply when applying for a second provisional teaching permit.

[Ajarn Shaun]

Ajarn Shaun: What's wrong with a WP? Why are you so rigid about it? IF you can get the B-Visa and a WP and Immigration grants you the 90 day reporting thing, then you would be working legally.

I got the WP but there was some under the table work. I'm flying to America soon and I've got a job as a Execution Support Engineer making 70,000-80,000 bht a month and guaranteed raises every year. They also said that once I've obtained my BA in IT field that I'll get a pay raise. Things are looking up and I'm glad that I left that school and searched for work. Utah only has a 3.8% unemployment rate so it's not hard to find work. My brother bought us a trailer house for 150,000 bht (normaly 400,000 bht) from a friend. My mother is giving me her 1994 Mercedes Benz that looks immaculate. We're excited and we're still looking for an opportunity to start a business in Thailand. Maybe import name branded clothing or I design T-shirts and print/sell them. Thanks all for your comments. I'll keep in touch!

P.S. I'm looking forward to going to Narita (Tokoyo) Japan again and take a nice 8 hour breather walking around early in the morning. Then off to America after that. I did this before and LOVED it. So nice to get away from the airport and relax at one of the Japanese temples. This time I'll go to the mormon temple. I'm very excited!

[aidenai]

Best of luck, Shaun.

[Scott]

Yes, best of luck and keep the positive attitude. It will take you further than you can ever imagine.

[sirchai]

Chock Dee Maak!!!=

[zeichen]

good luck. You do have a very good attitude and outlook which is refreshing. Glad that you are doing what is good for you and your family for the long run and not just the short term.