Concrete "pole" construction vs. steel?

[bankruatsteve]

For house construction in Thailand the design always seems to be oriented to the concrete columns and the maximum 3.5m or 4m (or whatever) span from pole to pole. For multi-story construction, I can understand the load bearing considerations, but for single story construction, why is the "pole" concept maintained? Why not use steel "poles" or load bearing walls so as not to deal with unsightly 20cm square "poles" and could easily handle whatever roof or floor design.

For my car port, I used 6cm diameter steel poles and which blended nicely with the cinder block walls of an attached structure (rice & storage room). Supports the roof with no problem.

Just makes me wonder what the obsession is with concrete poles.

[His Masters Voice]

Photos ?

[bankruatsteve]

^ photos of what? Sure - just let me know what you want to see.

[JoePai]

Quite simply that is what they have always used. I needed a 12m span so used a steel RSJ on my last house.

[bunnydrops]

Construction here is mostly post and beam. Some places it has to be done because they have to put footings in so deep it is easier to just dig a pad for a post Yes they could.just support the floor this way with a grade beam and then then do block support walls. But I have never seen them put steel in the blocks ( also the 3 hole blocks they use, the holes never line up) and without it the first time the wife backs into a wall-- the whole house would come down.. Easier to just build the post and use the blocks as "filler"

[Pib]

Thailand is a wet place....concrete don't rust...and its cheap.

[bankruatsteve]

I'm thinking concrete pole vs. steel pole would not be much difference in price. I guess what I am suggesting is: use steel instead of concrete for, at least, single story (storey) structures and not have to worry about the "pole" sticking out of the wall and having to design things in boxes (for the most parts in upcountry).

[Langsuan Man]

I'm thinking concrete pole vs. steel pole would not be much difference in price. I guess what I am suggesting is: use steel instead of concrete for, at least, single story (storey) structures and not have to worry about the "pole" sticking out of the wall and having to design things in boxes (for the most parts in upcountry).

I'm thinking you are wrong. Steel is much more expensive that is concrete

[Pib]

I'm thinking concrete pole vs. steel pole would not be much difference in price. I guess what I am suggesting is: use steel instead of concrete for, at least, single story (storey) structures and not have to worry about the "pole" sticking out of the wall and having to design things in boxes (for the most parts in upcountry).

I'm thinking you are wrong. Steel is much more expensive that is concrete

Plus concrete/mortar won't stick to metal worth a durn so you wouldn't have good contact/support to the adjacent bricks probably making up the walls. I would also guess that a concrete pole with rebar would be stronger than a hollow metal pole...and also move less.

[citi]

From my experience in H.K., older type of village houses tend to use column and beam construction, with the possibility of internal columns, which results in a compromised layout and reduced headroom. The space in-between concrete columns are filled with red bricks. This old method of construction in H.K. is the same as that in Thailand right now.

More recently, the practice has been to leave village houses column-free, with a thicker floor slab and all concrete walls (about 150 mm thick) are structural support for the house floor slabs and roof. This gives architects a better chance of achieving a more space and decent layout (see photos). The new construction method shortens the time for building the house structure because the time used is the erection of the rebar framework and formwork. Once all are completed, well mixed concrete is injected from concrete lorries to form concrete walls and floor slabs. The main draw back of this column-free method is difficult to remove internal partitions (e.g. combine 2 rooms into one room) because all walls are structural support of the house. The removal of structural walls requires structural engineer to re-design the house structure by erecting structual steel for compensation of the loss of structual walls. Such alteration requires approval from Building Deaprtment of H.K. Government.

Regarding the method of using structual steel for building a house, in my opinion I would not recommend this method for residential house because all structural steels must be coated with fire-resistant material as required by building regulation in H.K. This method should be more expensive than in situ cast concrete method. One day the Thai method of using column and brick will be replaced by in situ cast concrete method if space and labour cost are the concern.

[Rust Never Sleeps]

Firsly, in regards to protruding vertical concrete columns, you could have double skinned bricks to counter this problem and also this would also add

insulating properties to your house with an air gap and this would also allow you to add insulation between the brickwork,(cost savings in the long term).

Secondly, you can use vertical steel columns and brickwork with the use of right-angled ties fixed to the vertical steel columns and embedded into the mortar

joints.(I would use right-angled ties in both mediums).

Personally I would use vertical concrete columns because the columns can be rendered,steel cannot be rendered,also steel can expand and contract in direct

exposure to the sun, costs of using steel are higher and using more conventional methods is safer in regards to the builders capabilities in domestic housing

construction.

Unfortunately, what I have described will only add extra costs.

Personally I would use vertical concrete columns for two reasons, firstly vertical concrete columns can be rendered,secondly vertical steel columns in direct

exposure to the sun will expand and contract in the Thai climate.

[Rust Never Sleeps]

Sorry I stuffed up on the editing

[bankruatsteve]

RE Steel cannot be rendered: The steel cylindrical poles I have in my carport have been rendered where they are not visible in the walls of the storage room and also attached with a 1/4 wall. No sloughing, chipping, or anything 3 years now.

[thailandbeachisland]

Hello,

Can I know how much you paid for your steel carport ?

The minimum cost without any decoration please.

Thank you.

[bankruatsteve]

Hello,

Can I know how much you paid for your steel carport ?

The minimum cost without any decoration please.

Thank you.

That was over 3 years ago and my record keeping wasn't very good then - but, from the receipts I can find (which seems to be most of it) the carport ran a little over B50K including labor.

[Lockheed]

Type of construction depends on what material and skills are readily available.

While in Laos recently, I was watching these guys drive there six wheel drive ex army trucks into the river and then start shovelling the sand and gravel into the backs of the trucks. All they needed was cement and water to make concrete.

[Jay Sata]

For vertical posts you best bet is to use custom rebar inside a round concrete pipe.

Make sure you use a vibrating poker to fix the concrete inside the pipe.

Concrete pipes are cheap and offer a nice external surface.

Depending on high you want to go the concrete pre cast pipes come in many sizes and offer a nice round external finish.

Foundations are where most Thai buildings fail.