New costs announced for visitor and migrant visa's

[7by7]

7by7 said

People don't have that choice when it comes to visa and LTR applications; if they want to live in the UK with their family.

They could decide to reside in the spouses country and many do.

It is not always a simple matter of choice.

In our case, we did at first consider me moving to Thailand rather than her moving to the UK. But my employment prospects in Thailand were such that, even if I could find a job and get a work permit, earning enough to support a family was unlikely so it was not a viable alternative to her moving to the UK where I was already earning sufficient and she could, and after about 6 months of searching did, find a job herself.

Many, if not most, families are in the same position.

The money paid in fees to the Border Agency help fund the whole operation

Which is one of the reasons given by Blair and Brown for raising the fees from covering the cost to making a profit. I'd like to see figures that show how much goes to fund the UKBA and how much is left as profit.

But should visa applicants fund IOs at ports of entry and enforcement teams? Isn't that a bit like making victims of crime fund the police? But that's a topic for a different conversation.

In fact the free access to the NHS mitigates the money paid for visas.

Which is one of the points I have been making; glad that you finally agree with me on that!

In which case, family migrants should not be included in this proposal.

A proposal, which if introduced, will cost more to administer than it will ever raise!

Simpler and cheaper for the government to do the sensible thing and make health insurance mandatory for all those entering the UK for any purpose other than long term settlement; as most of Europe already does.

But doing that wouldn't get them supportive headlines in the Daily Mail nor appease the anti immigration lobby in their own parties.

Edited July 4, 2013 by 7by7

[theoldgit]

A number of off topic and one scurrilous post and a response removed.

Please keep on topic.

[MrZM]

I think it's stupid.

For example a man or woman who has paid taxes and nic for 20 years, will then have to pay even more money on top of everything else for there spouse.

Think everyone should start going through the surrinder Singh route and start to puss the government off.

[Kevin1908]

I think it's stupid.

For example a man or woman who has paid taxes and nic for 20 years, will then have to pay even more money on top of everything else for there spouse.

Think everyone should start going through the surrinder Singh route and start to puss the government off.

What about those of us who have 44 years worth of contributions.

[MrZM]

I think it's stupid.

For example a man or woman who has paid taxes and nic for 20 years, will then have to pay even more money on top of everything else for there spouse.

Think everyone should start going through the surrinder Singh route and start to puss the government off.

What about those of us who have 44 years worth of contributions.

You know what I mean!

[Foggy Bottom]

Is no one else as concerned as I about this and the effect it will have on family migrants?

Maybe people haven't read the document, or the Home Office consultation, properly.

If this proposal goes ahead, any British citizen who wants to live in the UK with their non EEA national spouse or partner will have to pay this.

On top of visa and leave to remain fees which are, according to the government's own figures, already set at way above the actual cost of processing an application.

On top of the tax already being paid by the British spouse or partner.

On top of the tax which the foreign spouse or partner may pay if they work once in the UK, which many do.

The message from this government is clear.

If you want to marry a non EEA national and live in the UK with them; forget it unless you are rich!

With you 110% on your sentiments 7x7 ... the disingenuous part that you didn't mention is that it will be waived only for those with indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which rules out family migrants as that category was removed from them in last July's Appendix FM changes.

A non-EU spouse or partner no longer gets ILR - they go from the first two 30 month periods of the Leave to Enter to either FLR (10 year route) or Settlement after 5 years. Therefore, until a non-EU spouse or partner has settlement and if they first applied after 12 July last year, they will have to pay this NHS levy each year they are in the UK, even if they are employed and paying National Insurance.

This is no more than another prejudicial and xenophobic tax against mixed nationality families. I will be looking for where and how members of the public can make input against this in the consultation site (which appears to be down) and strongly recommend all Brits with non-EU spouses and partners submit reasoned objections to the proposal.

Meanwhile, EU nationals can just walk in, take a job and get full NHS access for all new and pre-existing conditions. When will this government understand that it's not the family migrants from the rest of the world that are the problem, it's the European Economic Migrants?

[Foggy Bottom]

Ought to charge GBP 1,000/year for the first 5 years until they can show they are regular tax payers. And if not, kick them out.

Perhaps the Thais should do the same to Brits living in Thailand?

[Foggy Bottom]

I notice you have not answered the question is £16.00 a week too much?

Professor J Meirion Thomas, a senior consultant in the NHS, makes some interesting points in today's Daily Mail.

Ineligible patients is that British taxpayers are kept on waiting lists and drugs are denied them, while the emergency treatment of overseas visitors takes precedence.

He says the proposed new health care levy of £200 a year for foreigners will rank as the cheapest travel insurance ever devised, especially if it covers family and dependants.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2355152/Professor-J-Meirion-Thomas-A-200-wont-stop-foreigners-abusing-NHS-But-I-know-.html

He also states that he believes the charge will be treated by the foreigners as providing unlimited health insurance and access to unlimited health care. Which would completely undermine the intended purpose of the charge and the proposed health care access limitations mentioned by the Health Minister.

Stop reading selectively and look at the whole picture.

[7by7]

With respect, Foggy Bottom, family migrants do still get ILR (Indefinite Leave to Remain).

It was ILE (Indefinite Leave to Enter) which was removed for family migrants in last July's changes; except for children applying to join a parent who already lives in the UK and has ILR.

The route to settlement for a family migrant is now:-

• Visa valid for 33 months;
• FLR after 30 months in the UK;
• ILR 30 months after FLR.

Making 5 years in total. Assuming all the other criteria are met at each stage, of course.

Remember that the UKBA don't, and never have, referred to ILR, they have always called ILR 'settlement.'

If I have read the proposals correctly, and remember that despite the topic title chosen by the OP these are just proposals at the moment, then it wont be a yearly levy until one has ILR, or settlement if you prefer, but a one of payment to be made when the initial visa is issued.

[MrZM]

People who agree with this are completely stupid, and aren't looking at the bigger picture.

Eu or eea citizens are moving freely into the UK in the hundreds and thousands, they are the problem!

As you all know now and future applicants need a minimum required income to bring there spouse to the UK, ergo they are already paying taxes, me personally I pay over £300 in nic a month. Why should I have to pay £200 extra per year so my wife can use the NHS.

Why are family migrants being picked on? In my opinion it's racist and very much so.

And the stranger thing is they are discriminating against British citizens.

Do we actually live in Great Britain or are we actually living in Dont greet britains!

I have to return to the UK so my son can be educated, my wife can be educated and I can earn money to get the hell out of there.

[7by7]

To access state health care in the UK EEA nationals, unless resident, need a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) just as British nationals do to access state healthcare when visiting other EEA countries.

British nationals living in other EEA countries have the same access to that country's state healthcare as EEA nationals resident in the UK do.

Something I'm sure the tens of thousands of British pensioners living in Spain, Greece, Italy etc. are very glad of!

Please don't turn this topic into another rant against the EEA and freedom of movement rights.

[MrZM]

To access state health care in the UK EEA nationals, unless resident, need a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) just as British nationals do to access state healthcare when visiting other EEA countries.

British nationals living in other EEA countries have the same access to that country's state healthcare as EEA nationals resident in the UK do.

Something I'm sure the tens of thousands of British pensioners living in Spain, Greece, Italy etc. are very glad of!

Please don't turn this topic into another rant against the EEA and freedom of movement rights.

Regardless

They would not be refused in the UK.

[MaprangHolmes]

If this does become law do you really think that the NHS would see any of the money? Take car tax if the money that they collect was spent on roads we would have the best roads in the world.

It would be much simpler to ensure that every person coming to the UK to live, has private health care insurance.

Another option could be to have a complete medical before being aloud to reside in the UK, thus preventing anyone with serious health problems becoming a drain on an already stretched health system.

[Kevin1908]

I think it's stupid.

For example a man or woman who has paid taxes and nic for 20 years, will then have to pay even more money on top of everything else for there spouse.

Think everyone should start going through the surrinder Singh route and start to puss the government off.

What about those of us who have 44 years worth of contributions.

You know what I mean!

I know what you mean, the coalition Government are the ones who don't.

[ableguy]

To avoid this discussion turning into another alarmist catfight that has been evident in a number of recent threads, please note that this is only a consultation document and there are no firm proposals yet.

The type of person this is seemingly aimed at already have no recourse to benefits, so no dole, and the majority already have no access to full free NHS treatment.

If this thread goes into another downward spiral, it will be closed without warning.

wow a downward spiral ? how can it not ???

[ableguy]

People who agree with this are completely stupid, and aren't looking at the bigger picture.

Eu or eea citizens are moving freely into the UK in the hundreds and thousands, they are the problem!

As you all know now and future applicants need a minimum required income to bring there spouse to the UK, ergo they are already paying taxes, me personally I pay over £300 in nic a month. Why should I have to pay £200 extra per year so my wife can use the NHS.

Why are family migrants being picked on? In my opinion it's racist and very much so.

And the stranger thing is they are discriminating against British citizens.

Do we actually live in Great Britain or are we actually living in Dont greet britains!

I have to return to the UK so my son can be educated, my wife can be educated and I can earn money to get the hell out of there.

The problem is thousands of people view the UK as the land of their dreams, they are of course misguided but look at it from say an Afgans point of view, no bombs, free education, daughters can be educated, free money and housing also no hospital would turn you away ( violating your human rights ) and for these individuals the Taliban will be back shortly running the show, If I was in their shoes I would be on my way too. This does not mean I would welcome them. Why should we open our doors to the continent of Africa, not a racial statement but an economic impossability hell they cannot even look after theur own pensioners

[sustento]

People who agree with this are completely stupid, and aren't looking at the bigger picture.

Eu or eea citizens are moving freely into the UK in the hundreds and thousands, they are the problem!

As you all know now and future applicants need a minimum required income to bring there spouse to the UK, ergo they are already paying taxes, me personally I pay over £300 in nic a month. Why should I have to pay £200 extra per year so my wife can use the NHS.

Why are family migrants being picked on? In my opinion it's racist and very much so.

And the stranger thing is they are discriminating against British citizens.

Do we actually live in Great Britain or are we actually living in Dont greet britains!

I have to return to the UK so my son can be educated, my wife can be educated and I can earn money to get the hell out of there.

The problem is thousands of people view the UK as the land of their dreams, they are of course misguided but look at it from say an Afgans point of view, no bombs, free education, daughters can be educated, free money and housing also no hospital would turn you away ( violating your human rights ) and for these individuals the Taliban will be back shortly running the show, If I was in their shoes I would be on my way too. This does not mean I would welcome them. Why should we open our doors to the continent of Africa, not a racial statement but an economic impossability hell they cannot even look after theur own pensioners

What's Africa got to do with Afghanistan?

[theoldgit]

I will close this thread now, when and if firm proposals are announced we can consider a further discussion.