Cash Advance on Visa Debit Card ?

[sas_cars]

Hi Guys

What are the typical charges when we go inside a Thai bank to do a cash advance on our visa debit card? And who decides the exchange rate? Thanks

[Upnotover]

Nothing and your bank does.

[sas_cars]

Thanks. Isn't Visa supposed to decide the exchange rate? Since the card is Visa debit?

[Pib]

The Visa exchange rate would be used as the reference/starting point minus any "foreign transaction fee" the home country/card issuing bank might apply. As you probably know, many charge a couple of percent in foreign transaction fee(s)...and for some banks they will reflect it as a separate charge without modifying (adjusting down) the Visa full exchange rate (or MasterCard exchange rate)....and other banks will just apply it into the exchange rate (no separate fee will occur/appear) which gives the impression that Visa/Mastercard gave you a crappy exchange rate when in fact Visa/Mastercard gave you their full exchange rate but then your card issuing bank adjusted it down through application of their fee "before posting it to your account."

Also quite a few ThaiVisa posts where some Thai banks/branches don't like doing over the counter cash advances....they much prefer you don't bother the teller and instead slide your card into one of their ATMs so they can charge you the Bt150 fee Thai banks charge foreign Visa cards....and now Bt180 for foreign Mastercards. AEON ATMs still don't charge any foreign card fee.

[sas_cars]

Just inquired with Kasikoron bank and their Cash Advance limit over the counter is a princely 20,000 Baht per day. Anybody knows if other banks have higher limits?

[Pib]

Just inquired with Kasikoron bank and their Cash Advance limit over the counter is a princely 20,000 Baht per day. Anybody knows if other banks have higher limits?

Not only can any bank you walk into to do a counter/teller withdrawal set a certain limit on such transactions, but the bank that issued the debit card will have a daily limit. I took a look at my Schwab Debit Card Agreement and it states my daily $1000USD (about 31K baht a current exchange rates) applies from an ATM, as "cash back" from an merchant, or by presenting the card to a bank teller.

So, in K-bank's case I would be better off to go to any ATM with my debit card, preferably an AEON ATM to avoid the Bt150 foreign card fee even through Schwab would reimburse me, and withdraw 31K baht versus spending time getting a queue number, filling out paperwork, talking to the teller (no matter how pretty she might be), etc.

Also, in my earlier post above about the exchange rate used, make sure the teller don't hook you into using the bank's Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) rate--or whatever warm and fuzzy name they may give it--as you will surely get a lower rate....probably around 3% lower than the Visa exchange rate if using a no foreign transaction fee debit card.

[laxman1960]

Just go to Bangkok Bank and best if you go to a full service one or one in a mall where reasonable farang population go. No fee at all just have to watch your own bank/card limits. And just ask for whatever amount in THB you want. I get a pretty decent rate from MasterCard just did it yesterday and they gave me over 30.1 after any fees my card issuer charged. This was on 2500 USD approximately.

[Pib]

Just go to Bangkok Bank and best if you go to a full service one or one in a mall where reasonable farang population go. No fee at all just have to watch your own bank/card limits. And just ask for whatever amount in THB you want. I get a pretty decent rate from MasterCard just did it yesterday and they gave me over 30.1 after any fees my card issuer charged. This was on 2500 USD approximately.

Sounds like your card has a 2% foreign transaction fee. From looking at the MasterCard exchange rate page for 3 Jul their rate was 30.79/USD and for 2 Jul 30.70/USD. Depending on which date your transaction actually settled depending date/time differentials when you substrate a 2% fee from either of those daily MC rates you get pretty close to 30.1.

Now if your card does not apply any foreign transaction fee then it sounds like Bangkok Bank may have used a DCC rate since their TT Buying Rate (use as an ATM rate reference also) for 3 Jul and 2 Jul was 30.85/USD and 30.80/USD....apply a 2% lower exchange rate and once again you get real close to 30.1. But I expect the lower effective 30.1 rate was due to foreign transaction fees applied by your card issuing bank.

[Canada]

I've got as high as 400,000 baht cash advance from Bangkok Bank

[EmptyMind]

Hi Guys

What are the typical charges when we go inside a Thai bank to do a cash advance on our visa debit card? And who decides the exchange rate? Thanks

You can't get a cash advance on any debit card, that's why it's a debit card. You can only get a cash advance on a credit card.

Do you just mean withdrawing cash over the counter instead of using an ATM ?

[typhoon]

Hi Guys

What are the typical charges when we go inside a Thai bank to do a cash advance on our visa debit card? And who decides the exchange rate? Thanks

You can't get a cash advance on any debit card, that's why it's a debit card. You can only get a cash advance on a credit card.

Do you just mean withdrawing cash over the counter instead of using an ATM ?

done it many times with my credit card, in Thailand and the phillippines a cash advance, but charged about £25 pounds each time, a minimum of 15000 baht was quoted, up to what ever ur credit limit is.

[Pib]

Hi Guys

What are the typical charges when we go inside a Thai bank to do a cash advance on our visa debit card? And who decides the exchange rate? Thanks

You can't get a cash advance on any debit card, that's why it's a debit card. You can only get a cash advance on a credit card.

Do you just mean withdrawing cash over the counter instead of using an ATM ?

done it many times with my credit card, in Thailand and the phillippines a cash advance, but charged about £25 pounds each time, a minimum of 15000 baht was quoted, up to what ever ur credit limit is.

Yes, cash advance on credit cards is common and can be a very larger portion of your total line of credit. Example: I've got a credit card that gives me a $20,000 line of credit with $10,000 of that being available for cash advance. Of course when you get a cash advance on a credit card you pay a cash advance/upfront fee usually around 3%, if getting the cash overseas then there is also probably a foreign transaction fee in 1 to 3% range, and then usually a high interest (around 20%) starts racking up interest charges day one of the cash advance....and the cash advance interest rate can be a higher rate than the interest rate that applies for purchases. This is a really expensive way to get cash...maybe the most expensive way...and gets even more expensive if you can't quickly pay off the credit card bill. And what makes it even worst is some credit card companies in some countries will allocate your monthly credit card payment first towards the balance with the lowest interest rate (i.e., your purchases)...so since you credit card will reflect two balances, one for normal purchases and one for cash advances, a person could very well not be paying anything against the cash advance balance until they get their purchase balance paid off which means that high cash advance interest rate (maybe around 20%) keeps racking up interest charges. It wasn't until early 2010 that this practice was outlawed in the U.S. but it still exists in many other countries.

I think when people refer to a "debit card cash advance" it's really just means using your debit card to pull available money from their bank account by doing it over the counter/with a teller vs an ATM. It's not really a cash advance like getting money advanced/loaned to you when using a credit card; it really just pulling money you already have in your bank account or pre-paid debit card. And I guess some "pre-paid" debit cards (usually used by unbanked folks) offer loans (a.k.a., cash advances) just like credit cards...but once again, it can get expensive to get money you don't already have. And usually debit cards have withdrawal limits per transaction/day regardless of whether you are doing an over the counter cash withdrawal or ATM cash withdrawal. Of course a lot of banks/cards with varying policies, but many of the policies seem to be identical/very similar across banks/cards.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Pib

[joeaverage]

if it is a debit card why not withdraw from an atm?

[Pib]

if it is a debit card why not withdraw from an atm?

It will avoid the Bt150/Bt180 foreign card fee "Thai bank" ATMs charge; AEON ATMs (a Japanese company) do not charge the fee.

[naboo]

On a 170000B withdrawal at Bangkok Bank on a visa debit card, I got a rate 1% better than offered in store, but charged 2% by my UK bank (charge applies to any withdrawal.

To the poster above, my daily ATM limit is about 15000B, so 170000 would have taken 12 days.

Sent from my Oppo U7011 Gemini

[Pib]

I expect you got the standard Visa exchange rate which is usually plus or minus a few stang of the Thai bank TT Buying rate used for wire transfers; then your home country bank applied their separate 2% foreign transaction fee. Not sure what you mean by "...1% better than offered in store..." unless whatever store/shop you are referring to uses their own rate commonly referred to as the Dynamic Currency Conversion (DDC) exchange rate that some merchants default to using for foreign cards (like Sizzler, Pizza Company, HomePro stores I use, and probably a lot of stores in farang/tourist areas)...the DDC rate will be several percent lower than the Visa/MasterCard exchange. A person should tell a merchant/store "to charge in baht, not USD/Euro/etc" when handing them your card that way you shouldn't get hit with a lower DCC rate which from my experience here in Thailand is around 3% lower than the Visa exchange rate. If they do initiate the DCC transaction and that receipt for signature comes out showing USD/Euro/etc "and" baht by reflecting both currencies that means it's been initiated as a DCC transaction and on a separate small sheet that prints out or maybe at the very bottom of the receipt they hand you for signature, it will reflect the exchange rate...my own pesonall experience has shown the rate is usually around 3.75% lower. Now it don't say how much it's lower in comparison to the going Visa/MasterCard rate, it's just you have to be somewhat aware of what the current, no fee/no DCC rate is. Now although DCC has been attempted on me a half dozen or so times, I never signed the receipt, told them to cancel the transaction and rerun "in Thai baht" (which they did without putting up a fight), took them about 1 minute to cancel the first transaction and rerun it. While the first charge may hit your home country account also even through they quickly cancelled (be sure to hold onto the cancellation receipt just in case needed later on) the transaction, it will fall off in a few days as cancellations seem to flow slower than the initial charge.

It appears your bank allows a higher cash withdrawal per transaction/day when done by signature/PIN like done over the counter. That's good, but many banks don't....it will vary from bank to bank/country to country. Additionally, sometimes such over the counter withdrawals/cash advances are processed as temporarily allowed increases from the normal limit. Yeap, it can vary from card issuing bank to card issuing bank...all a person can do is try and hope for the best, but not be surprised/pissed if the over the counter per day limit turns out to be the same as the ATM per day limit

[sas_cars]

On a 170000B withdrawal at Bangkok Bank on a visa debit card, I got a rate 1% better than offered in store, but charged 2% by my UK bank (charge applies to any withdrawal.

To the poster above, my daily ATM limit is about 15000B, so 170000 would have taken 12 days.

Sent from my Oppo U7011 Gemini

What is this 2 % fee charged by your UK Bank? Can you clarify? Is it a foreign currency transaction fee? Or a Cash Advance fee ?

[Rinrada]

On a 170000B withdrawal at Bangkok Bank on a visa debit card, I got a rate 1% better than offered in store, but charged 2% by my UK bank (charge applies to any withdrawal.

To the poster above, my daily ATM limit is about 15000B, so 170000 would have taken 12 days.

Sent from my Oppo U7011 Gemini

What is this 2 % fee charged by your UK Ban

k? Can you clarify? Is it a foreign currency transaction fee? Or a Cash Advance fee ?

Its called (politely) a Robbin Baskins rip off fee.....organized legal free market economy....skim..

easy way to get money out of you and Governments don't really care.....We all love banks Yes...

Cant live without them..... but wish we could..

[sas_cars]

On a 170000B withdrawal at Bangkok Bank on a visa debit card, I got a rate 1% better than offered in store, but charged 2% by my UK bank (charge applies to any withdrawal.

To the poster above, my daily ATM limit is about 15000B, so 170000 would have taken 12 days.

Sent from my Oppo U7011 Gemini

What is this 2 % fee charged by your UK Ban

k? Can you clarify? Is it a foreign currency transaction fee? Or a Cash Advance fee ?

Its called (politely) a Robbin Baskins rip off fee.....organized legal free market economy....skim..

easy way to get money out of you and Governments don't really care.....We all love banks Yes...

Cant live without them..... but wish we could..

Thanks but seriously, just curious about this fee, since doing a Cash Advance on a Credit card incurs a 3 % fee, so that's why wanna know whether this is the same fee cash advance fees or not.

[naboo]

Its a foreign currency transaction fee - Nationwide in the UK, they charged nothing 5 years ago but slowly put the fees on.

[naboo]

I expect you got the standard Visa exchange rate which is usually plus or minus a few stang of the Thai bank TT Buying rate used for wire transfers; then your home country bank applied their separate 2% foreign transaction fee. Not sure what you mean by "...1% better than offered in store...

I was in a Bangkok Bank store, they were offering 44.4B to the GBP, in an over the counter transaction, I was given 44.8B to the GBP, then my bank took a fee of 2% (listed seperately on my statement), making the overall rate 43.8 or thereabouts.

[IsaanAndy]

Just inquired with Kasikoron bank and their Cash Advance limit over the counter is a princely 20,000 Baht per day. Anybody knows if other banks have higher limits?

I've had cash advances from Siam Commercial bank for upto 50,000 Baht before now but I haven't requested that amount for awhile so the rules might have changed. If you are a regular customer at your branch and use other services other than just obtaining money, insurance etc, then I find they are more than happy to let you use the cash advance facility.

[garyk]

You have to watch it. Check with your bank back home. That is where they get you. I have two accounts in the states. Both debit cards. No daily limit withdrawals.

My limit comes into place when I use an ATM only. I use a Credit union in America that charges me nothing. No % for using the card overseas. But you have to check around. My Visa card has a 3% fee when using over seas. I never use it.. LOL

The main thing is check and find a bank in your home country that does not charge for international use. I bought an old pickup here and got 450,000 from my debit card no problem. Also I was informed by the bank I use that all debit card transactions are made as cash advance? I had problems in the states with this. My credit union made a special rule in my case for the advances. Strange how banks are different. I really do not understand it. But the main thing is check around it PAYS big time in the long run.

[Pib]

You have to watch it. Check with your bank back home. That is where they get you. I have two accounts in the states. Both debit cards. No daily limit withdrawals.

My limit comes into place when I use an ATM only. I use a Credit union in America that charges me nothing. No % for using the card overseas. But you have to check around. My Visa card has a 3% fee when using over seas. I never use it.. LOL

The main thing is check and find a bank in your home country that does not charge for international use. I bought an old pickup here and got 450,000 from my debit card no problem. Also I was informed by the bank I use that all debit card transactions are made as cash advance? I had problems in the states with this. My credit union made a special rule in my case for the advances. Strange how banks are different. I really do not understand it. But the main thing is check around it PAYS big time in the long run.

garyk,

What do you really mean by a "cash advance" on a "debit" card? When I hear cash advance related to a "credit: card where its heard most often it really means you are getting a loan from the card issuing credit card bank/company and that loan (cash advance) appears on your monthly credit card bill...and of course cash advances on credit cards comes with an initial withdrawal fee, high interest rate, and maybe even a foreign transaction fee.

So, when you say "cash advance" on a "debit" card are you talking about pulling money that you have available in your bank account or are you really talking a short term loan/getting money advanced from the bank you really don't have in your account? Actually this question is for anyone who uses the "cash advance" terminology in relation to their "debit" card. Thanks.

Pib

[IsaanAndy]

You have to watch it. Check with your bank back home. That is where they get you. I have two accounts in the states. Both debit cards. No daily limit withdrawals.

My limit comes into place when I use an ATM only. I use a Credit union in America that charges me nothing. No % for using the card overseas. But you have to check around. My Visa card has a 3% fee when using over seas. I never use it.. LOL

The main thing is check and find a bank in your home country that does not charge for international use. I bought an old pickup here and got 450,000 from my debit card no problem. Also I was informed by the bank I use that all debit card transactions are made as cash advance? I had problems in the states with this. My credit union made a special rule in my case for the advances. Strange how banks are different. I really do not understand it. But the main thing is check around it PAYS big time in the long run.

garyk,

What do you really mean by a "cash advance" on a "debit" card? When I hear cash advance related to a "credit: card where its heard most often it really means you are getting a loan from the card issuing credit card bank/company and that loan (cash advance) appears on your monthly credit card bill...and of course cash advances on credit cards comes with an initial withdrawal fee, high interest rate, and maybe even a foreign transaction fee.

So, when you say "cash advance" on a "debit" card are you talking about pulling money that you have available in your bank account or are you really talking a short term loan/getting money advanced from the bank you really don't have in your account? Actually this question is for anyone who uses the "cash advance" terminology in relation to their "debit" card. Thanks.

Pib

You can only withdraw money from a debit card account if you have the funds (or agreed overdraft facility) actually in the account, a debit card is not a credit card and therefore the cash advance from a debit card is based on the amount of money you have in the accout at the time of the request.

[laxman1960]

Yes looks like 2% fee from Payoneer. They say it can be as high as 3.

[Pib]

Just for example, I very recently reconfirmed with Schwab what the daily transaction limits are for the Platinum Visa debit card issued under my standard U.S. brokerage/checking account....it not an international account...its not a premium account...it just the standard account. For cash withdrawal it's $1000/day which I can do in one or multiple withdrawals and this limit applies whether by ATM or cash advance (a.k.a, over the counter/via bank teller). And for the POS limit it's $15,000/day with signature/PIN. These limits still match what the debit card agreement said that they mailed me a couple years ago when opening the account.

Now as I mentioned in an earlier posts other folks may have different limits on their Visa debt card depending on their brokerage/checking accounts...is it a standard account or a premium account...is it a international account or domestic account...is it a brokerage only account with debit card or a combo brokerage/checking account with the card linked to/issued under the checking account instead of the brokerage account. And in these situations like with Schwab cards there may be a different banks managing the debit card such as Schwab Bank or NY Mellon Bank which may apply different debit card withdrawal limits. Apparently some accounts do have much higher cash advance limits in comparison to the cash withdrawal limit via ATM....it's all going to depend on your particular account/bank.

Quite a few variables can be in play and the only way to know for sure is ask you bank/financial company what limits apply to "your" account. And even with what they tell you, you won't be able to confirm in real life until you give it a try it. But just be prepared or don't get mad if the bank teller tells you the cash advance request (which exceeds the daily ATM limit) is rejecting when running your card....then you'll know for sure what your bank told you earlier is correct, unless it's just rejecting since a large foreign withdrawal might be flagged by your bank as a possible fraudulent transaction although your card works fine in the ATM up to X-amount. Then you may need to get on the phone to your bank to get the large cash advance approved. Yeap, quite a few variables/issues can possibly pop up.

But as I mentioned before, the exchange rate you get on your Visa debit card should be the Visa exchange rate minus any foreign transaction fee your card may apply. They should show any fee separately but some banks may just mix it in with the cash withdrawal amount which makes it look like Visa gave you a lower exchange rate...but Visa didn't...it was just that bank fee making it look that way.

Personally in the years of using my either my Visa/MasterCard no foreign transaction fee cards or a few cards I still have with fees (but these fee cards now just live in my safe), the exchange rate I always got was the Visa or MasterCard exchange possibly minus any foreign transaction fee that particular card had. If it's a no foreign transaction fee then the home country charge hitting your account will match the Visa exchange rate to the 2d or 3d decimal point assuming you didn't fall into the DCC trap with the bank.

Yeap, no "one correct answer" exists--it all depends on your particular card and its associated rules and fees. So, when in doubt reread the disclosures that came with your card and/or ask your bank via a phone call or via a secure email on your online account.