Urgent advise required, dire situation.

[Aussiescott]

Hi All,

Firstly i want to say, if you don't have any constructive comments please refrain from posting as i am in a very dire predicament and am already too stressed to be listening to others crap, i have heard it all before, thanks.

To those who can help, i appreciate in advance, i need as much info i can to deal with my problem!

To keep it brief, i am a 46 year old educated man on contract as a Construction manager and met a lady in Phuket, where i work and live, she's NOT a bar girl.... we dated for 9 months and she kept hinting of marriage (i am divorced after 17 years marriage in Oz with 3 beautiful kids who i miss so much), I was skeptical, but i have fallen in love with this girl and the feeling "was" mutual it seemed and i missed the company of a partner in life so enjoyed all our time together.

I wanted to start a small Business in phuket as an extra to my job as a construction manager and after meeting her family in Issan, was advised that it would be better to start Business up there and was given various reasons to substantiate this idea.

I purchased a 10Rai farm in a great area and have spent approx 850K on the farm and works i have done to it.

Whilst all this was happening, the subject of sin sod came up....I knew a little about this but not as much as i do now, in hindsight i would not have paid it, but the Mother wanted 1Million Baht which 2 other ladies in the village had recently got, so she jumped on this bandwagon and i assumed this was expensive but the going rate (how stupid I was !!!!).... I love her daughter and was given the bull-<deleted> line, "if you love me, you will pay it", so I reluctantly agreed.

8 months later, the daughter wants out of the marriage, fortunately we have NO papers yet, but the BITCH of a Mother who changed immediately after the marriage to an evil witch, refuses to pay back the money, she has purchased rice cutter and all manner of things to make her life better and none was given back to us after the marriage like seems to be the norm...again i find this out after the fact.

I have received limited advice from Lawyers in Phuket, they all seem rather uneducated to me and don't know what to do, so i need to find a GOOD reputable lawyer that can help me with this Civil matter. To add, i have spoken to local Police, Tourist Police and the Australian embassy, all informing me this is a "Civil" law suite, which i can understand, but who can i go to for help?

I am happy to go into more detail to those that can offer advice, but i am out nearly 2 million baht and most of my life savings. I am STUPID & EMBARRASSED for having let this happen to me, but I am also a trusting person with a good heart by nature and didn't expect this to happen.

Thank you to all for your advice in advance whether it share your experience, offer advice or give me a contact of a good expat or Thai lawyer that can fight the fight with me.

All the best and thanks...this has me so stressed out because it affects my kids at home in Oz, but i was too embarrassed to tell anyone till now.

PLEASE HELP

Kind Regards

Scott.

[smacko]

You handed over a gift eg money and now you wamt it back. I'm not a lawyer but I dont see how you have a civil case, I'd think it would even be hard in oz to get money gifted to someone back.

[CWMcMurray]

Saw a recent posting on TV suing for around +200k THB for Sin sot....

Not sure if he will be successful or not

You did mention that the 1 mil was for Sin Sot but that you "did not have the papers"....

Do you mean that you have not yet been legally married at the Amphur?

If so, may try the angle that the sit sot is given based upon agreement of marriage and as the marriage never took place this legally should come back to you

Then would need to prove that this was in fact sin sit and not just a gift... And proof of the actual amount.

If you can do that, may have a case, but will likely take many years to get through court and will likely need to pay a fair sum in legal fees... But 1 mil thb is not a small amount, so may be worth it.

As the rest I the funds, may be more difficult to prove the fund were not just a gift, but if you plan to sue already about the Sin Sot, can't see any reason why not to add this into the claim amount.

This way if any settlement offer comes in the future, this could help to bump it up quite a bit.

That being said, if planning to pursue... Expect it to take years to get through the Thai legal system and years longer to get the courts to enforce if the ruling comes out in your favor

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Aussiescott]

i understand what you are saying, but from the limited 'legal" advice i have and fortunately with records of EFT tranfers wher i specifically added notes "for marriage' this was not a gift persay.

Not only that, my argument is i paid a sin sod for my wife, the marriage is NOT legally ound at this point as we have NO papers, so i am hoping that it will be determined that this was for a marriage which now seems to be a scam...

This is my hope and again i need good legal advice. One lawyer has told me, we have a case because there are no papers involved.

at the end of the day, i'll try and expose this bullshit scam, so none of us expats get caught like this and certainly want to expose this evil F...ing lady for planning to ripp me off which after all the evidence is presented, can be proved in the court of law. I HOPE!

[Mario2008]

You can contact isaanlawyers and see if they can help you.

With a court case it is always the question of proof. You will need to proof that you actually gave the money and next that it is not a gift but a loan.

Listen carefully to what your lawyer will advise, as it might be that going to court will only cost more money.

[Aussiescott]

You did mention that the 1 mil was for Sin Sot but that you "did not have the papers"....

Do you mean that you have not yet been legally married at the Amphur?

If so, may try the angle that the sit sot is given based upon agreement of marriage and as the marriage never took place this legally should come back to you

Then would need to prove that this was in fact sin sit and not just a gift... And proof of the actual amount.

Thanks for the reply and thats the angle i will pursue, i married this lady paid sin sod and the marriage is NOT legal, therefore i want my money back. There's much more to this, ie the treatment by this lady, but i have had to grin and bear it, so they dont take off and i never find them again.

[CWMcMurray]

The fact that you mention that te transfer docs show the reason for transfer as for the Marriage will surely strengthen your case.

If going forward, the first thing I would ask your lawyer to do is to try and get an injunction on the mother from selling any if the land or assets

As one likely trick is for them to sell off everything to other family members... Which would make it nearly impossible to get anything back even I you win, as the courts will not wan to take back or force the sale by a third party who purchased them "in good faith"

Also may help in any settlement offer...as if the family needs money in the future, they may plan to sell these assets, but if you have an injunction they will not be able to sell or take out loans on the assets

So if they need funds bad enough, they may be willing to offer settlement to sell assets and give you a portion I they are hard up enough

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[David48]

A lesson for all ...

Good Luck ...

.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

You have given away approx 2M bht, a marriage and divorce in Oz would likely have cost you more.

Not really a large amount of money, my former US wife had 40Mbht off me,

I would think of it as a lesson learned, give the ex your best wishes and just walk away.

Letting resentment drag on from a failed marriage does nobody any good.

Throwing more money after the initial loss, won't make you feel any better.

Better luck next time.

PS

If you had asked us for advice on the land purchase, we would have said don't do it (or at least marry before land purchase).

If you had asked us for advice on sin-sot, we would have said don't pay it.

Now you ask for advice and we say, walk away.

Our advice is usually pretty good, but for some reason nobody ever listens.

Edited July 5, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[cornishcarlos]

You have given away approx 2M bht, a marriage and divorce in Oz would likely have cost you more.Not really a large amount of money, my former US wife had 40Mbht off me,I would think of it as a lesson learned, give the ex your best wishes and just walk away.Letting resentment drag on from a failed marriage does nobody any good.Throwing more money after the initial loss, won't make you feel any better.Better luck next time.PSIf you had asked us for advice on the land purchase, we would have said don't do it (or at least marry before land purchase).If you had asked us for advice on sin-sot, we would have said don't pay it.Now you ask for advice and we say, walk away.Our advice is usually pretty good, but for some reason nobody ever listens.

'Our advice'... Thanks for letting the OP know how we all feel !!

It wasn't a failed marriage by the sound of it, it was a classic scam..

2mil might not be a huge sum to you but to others, as in the OP case, it is life savings..

Having said that... I really don't think the OP will have any luck getting even 1 sating back, unless the family have a sudden attack of guilt... Not likely...

Edited July 5, 2013 by cornishcarlos

[Issangeorge]

I sent you a PM, good luck.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[AnotherOneAmerican]

'Our advice'... Thanks for letting the OP know how we all feel !!

It wasn't a failed marriage by the sound of it, it was a classic scam..

2mil might not be a huge sum to you but to others, as in the OP case, it is life savings..

Having said that... I really don't think the OP will have any luck getting even 1 sating back, unless the family have a sudden attack of guilt... Not likely...

Are you claiming your advise would have been to buy the land and pay the sin-sot ??????

Anyone who thinks 2Mbht is a lot of money, shouldn't be living in Thailand.

Edited July 5, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[cornishcarlos]

'Our advice'... Thanks for letting the OP know how we all feel !!It wasn't a failed marriage by the sound of it, it was a classic scam..2mil might not be a huge sum to you but to others, as in the OP case, it is life savings..Having said that... I really don't think the OP will have any luck getting even 1 sating back, unless the family have a sudden attack of guilt... Not likely...

Are you claiming your advise would have been to buy the land and pay the sin-sot ??????Anyone who thinks 2Mbht is a lot of money, shouldn't be living in Thailand.

Just speak for yourself and let others comment what they wish....

And yes, I would pay sin sod as it is custom...

Good luck OP

[Ruin]

It may be tough but what about digging your heels in. Stay there, ride the storm, you must have liked the place and you will find friends and sympathizers there.

Side thought, if you built anything it is yours, same if you bought anything.

ruinsalive

[simple1]

OP: Whose name is on the Chanote for the 10 rai of land?

[nottocus]

They just keep coming don't they.

[Aussiescott]

Hi All,

Thanks to you guys with the constructive comments/advice, its much appreciated and everyone posts are taken on-board, you know who you are, so many many thanks.

just to answer some questions asked, The chanote is in my wife/partners name, but i have the papers in my possession, same as the green books for bikes and farm equipment... if that helps at all, i'm not sure!

2 M baht is a lot of money to me under the circumstances of losing it!!!

Especially as i am young and i am not retired and have already given my ex-aussie missus a million dollar home in Oz plus everything in it, so my 3 kids dont go without! All i wanted to do is get on with my life and start another chapter and live and work here as i have always wanted too, but never could before when i was married. I have been travelling to thailand for over 20 years on holidays i love this place.

I was offered work here in Thailand so came here with enough cash to live a comfortable life and invest in a small business to give me a moderate income after i got sick of construction which i have been doing since i was 15 years old. My salary alone is enough to live on comfortably but i will not condone and just "accept" that i have been ripped off and then be another farang statistic and not fight it, or just jump from a building because i lost my savings!

I dont want to be negative here, but anyone who thinks that $60,000 +AUD is something to throw away is a <deleted> and has no brains, if you were in Business with a mindset like that, you wouldn't last long.... This is personal money I worked hard for and i'll be stuffed if i wont try to get it back after clearly being scammed. 2M baht can buy me a small condo in Phuket OR build me a beautiful home in issan on my lovely piece of land, why would i just through it away and chalk it up to experience?

Some will laugh and criticize, but i hope i can give you all some positive news in the future, i will even go to the media and tell the story if all avenues have been exhausted.

Wish me luck and i hope to still get some good advice like some of the posters who have already written.

Keep the info coming please.

Thanks guys, have a good day.

[ricklev]

I think the suggestion to contact Issan Lawyers is the only one that makes any sense. I can't imagine why you would do anything else!

[ricklev]

Sorry, maybe you are not aware that there is a law firm called Issanlawyers. Google it.

[CWMcMurray]

Want to wish the OP good luck and hope that he will drop by from time to time to update on the status of his lawsuit

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[AnotherOneAmerican]

'Our advice'... Thanks for letting the OP know how we all feel !!

It wasn't a failed marriage by the sound of it, it was a classic scam..

2mil might not be a huge sum to you but to others, as in the OP case, it is life savings..

Having said that... I really don't think the OP will have any luck getting even 1 sating back, unless the family have a sudden attack of guilt... Not likely...

Are you claiming your advice would have been to buy the land and pay the sin-sot ??????

Anyone who thinks 2Mbht is a lot of money, shouldn't be living in Thailand.

spelling.

[hoangballin81]

Shiet i feel sorry for you, but if i was you, either she pays back my money or theres gonna be personal consequences...thats just bein fair if she wants to be fair

[BookMan]

You are in a bad and stressfull situation OP and to me $60k AUD sounds like a lot of money to lose.

I would agree with the advice about seeing a lawyer, to settle your own mind , but I would be very surprised if there is anything you can do. Justice is not always served.

You paid sinsod for a marriage and you got the marriage yes? You bought land in your wife's name. You were not forced to buy it though?

Anyone can change their mind about being in a relationship any time they want. Without a binding pre nup what can you expect back?.

It is understandable you are angry at her for being duped, but don't let this bad situation consume you for years to come. You are only 46 so you can save some money for yourself again in the coming years.

[Morakot]

Yes don't look back in anger.

[montereyjp]

You will never get the money back. You gave it to her, the land and farm is in her name. I assume you have no contract. You will only waste money and time from here on out... this happens all the time to guys who build houses and fork out money in the name of love. All you had to do was a little research on the net to find hundreds of similiar stories just like yours... the fact she is not a bar girl means nothing...any lady anywhere in the world can have bad intentions. In fact you most likely would have been better off with a BG as at least your guard would have been up so less likely to make the huge investment you where duped into... The bottom line mate is you will never recover your money... All Thais will look at you as another dumbass foriegner who was duped by a poor lady from Issan... they do not care and the ones who do care are only acting in an attempt to get money from you too. An expensive lesson mate... move on is my advice...

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[AnotherOneAmerican]

I dont want to be negative here, but anyone who thinks that $60,000 +AUD is something to throw away is a <deleted> and has no brains,

And yet, you're the one that handed over the cash so easily in the first place.

Give it up, you won't get any of it back, so no point worrying.

[Aussiescott]

Guys,

You are possibly correct in saying that i may not get anything back, i NOW totally understand the ramifications of my naive and trusting actions....but i have to try and its not my nature to just give up without trying.

If I told the whole story which is not necessary for all to know and a boring read, i'm even bored by it....i have to try and get justice. This woman (the Mother) is a criminal and after the fact i have done my research on her and her antics, if it were in a 1st world country, she would be jailed, so i need to prove, her motive and her intent to embezzle money from me for her own gain.

The witch has 5 farang giving her money on a regular basis i have found out later, it makes me sick knowing this as well and i just hope when i take her to court, that there is a sympathetic judge/Magistrate that can see her intent and past history and awards at least something in my favour.

Surely, the Thai judicial system is not that archaic, this i have to find out myself!

I feel sorry for my wife/partner as she has been victemised by her mother for years and is only loyal to her by fear in which i have never experienced in my life before.... its a sad situation all round.

Lets make this a trial case Guys, and if i succeed to get something back its a win for everyone in the future, IF the judicial system recognizes past judgements as a reference like we do in 1st world Countries.

I can see it now in years to come when another poor farang is duped....."I refer your honour to the case in 2013 Scott V Witch" hehe

I feel better finally getting this off my chest finally, i haven't even told my family till now nd was my brothers idea to ask the forum for advice on actual cases... and something i didnt say, is my Dad is a well known retired judge in Australia and possibly a reason why i want to fight this injustice because its in the blood. haha... I'm relieved telling my story, even if its to u guys i dont know... so thanks alot for the warm replies, i'll keep you all informed of the outcome in the hope the next vulnerable farang is not duped like me.

Now i'm going to watch the footy, Sharkies v Tigers, go the sharks and thanks everyone again.

Cheers....

[Will27]

Guys,

You are possibly correct in saying that i may not get anything back, i NOW totally understand the ramifications of my naive and trusting actions....but i have to try and its not my nature to just give up without trying.

If I told the whole story which is not necessary for all to know and a boring read, i'm even bored by it....i have to try and get justice. This woman (the Mother) is a criminal and after the fact i have done my research on her and her antics, if it were in a 1st world country, she would be jailed, so i need to prove, her motive and her intent to embezzle money from me for her own gain.

The witch has 5 farang giving her money on a regular basis i have found out later, it makes me sick knowing this as well and i just hope when i take her to court, that there is a sympathetic judge/Magistrate that can see her intent and past history and awards at least something in my favour.

Surely, the Thai judicial system is not that archaic, this i have to find out myself!

I feel sorry for my wife/partner as she has been victemised by her mother for years and is only loyal to her by fear in which i have never experienced in my life before.... its a sad situation all round.

Lets make this a trial case Guys, and if i succeed to get something back its a win for everyone in the future, IF the judicial system recognizes past judgements as a reference like we do in 1st world Countries.

I can see it now in years to come when another poor farang is duped....."I refer your honour to the case in 2013 Scott V Witch" hehe

I feel better finally getting this off my chest finally, i haven't even told my family till now nd was my brothers idea to ask the forum for advice on actual cases... and something i didnt say, is my Dad is a well known retired judge in Australia and possibly a reason why i want to fight this injustice because its in the blood. haha... I'm relieved telling my story, even if its to u guys i dont know... so thanks alot for the warm replies, i'll keep you all informed of the outcome in the hope the next vulnerable farang is not duped like me.

Now i'm going to watch the footy, Sharkies v Tigers, go the sharks and thanks everyone again.

Cheers....

I feel for a fellow Aussie.

Scott, please don't tell me that the other 5 farangs sending her money are all to do with your wife!

Regards

Will

[simple1]

OP: Within Thai law they view each case as being very different and hence do not always apply any form of case law.

http://www.thailand-laws.org/sources-of-thai-law.php

Before you meet with a lawyer you may like to do some reading, but as said by Mario listen very carefully to any advice given, especially the practicality of actually enforcing any Court decision, appeal process etc. E.g. Sinsod is property given on the part of the man to the parents, adopter of guardian of the woman, as the case may be, in return of the woman agreeing to marry. If the marriage does not take place causing mainly from the woman or on account of any circumstances that make the woman responsible therefore and make the marriage unsuitable for the man or make the man unable to marry that woman, the man may claim the return of the Sinsod.

http://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/thailand-civil-code-part-3.html#1434

Edited July 5, 2013 by simple1

[Aussiescott]

No Will,

Its the Mother who has 5 of them on the leash... its deplorable!

My partner told me many things but is torn through loyalty to her mum, but she is starting to understand whats right and wrong.

I want to tell all more about this woman who deserted her 2 children when they were infants to have a life of ripping off people, she's a criminal plain and simple.

Thanks mate, for your comments, its hard for me to fathom this, but also a good life experience, but i'm not going to lie down and accept it.

Cheers Will.