how to aviod realestate scamers, advice please

[aussieinthailand]

I hope to buy a small block of land some time soon (my thai wifes name with 30 year lease my name)

I hear so many stories another real-estate scams or thai lawers scaming people while dealing with real-estate, Q1 what do they do to scam people?

A little advice on how to avoid becoming another victim of real-estate scamers?

[Soutpeel]

retain your own lawyer from a reputable firm.

[craigt3365]

Before this degenerates into a war of words, please only post if you can provide help to the OP. Otherwise, please don't post anything. OK, a small joke would be fine.

To help keep this on the straight and narrow, let's move this over to the real estate forum.

Topic Moved.

[craigt3365]

Can you tell us where you are located? Some members might be able to refer you to some local companies to help. As with anywhere in the world, some companies here are good...some are not so good.

[Boater]

If you are planning to buy a plot of land in the country side, use a bangkok city lawyer ( independent ) to go through all the paper work ect ect

[PattayaPhom]

Check the land title Chanote at land office against owners details, in theory if any loan is attached land office will not sanction transfer until this is paid. If markers are missing have them come and remeasure so you are sure exactly what you are buying. No need to hire a lawyer for this. The lease can also be registered on Chanote without use of lawyer, however you will need to trust your wife on this or have a friend that reads Thai....alternatively yes you could engage the use of a lawyer and their fees will be in the region of 30,000 baht. If you are buying through an agent, they will/should do due diligence for you and assist at the land office also at no cost to you.

Edited July 5, 2013 by PattayaPhom

[KittenKong]

retain your own lawyer from a reputable firm.

I suspect that the likelihood of being shafted in Thai property deals increases in direct proportion to the number of lawyers (and agents) involved.

[Soutpeel]

retain your own lawyer from a reputable firm.

I suspect that the likelihood of being shafted in Thai property deals increases in direct proportion to the number of lawyers (and agents) involved.

Not if you retain a lawyer youeself from a reputable firm, and dont use one "recommended" by the property firm, this is common sense advice applicable anywhere in the world, not just Thailand. I have been involved with both property and other deals which required "legal" oversight and in all cases were a legal firm was recommended by the "seller" I have made a point of not taking their recommendation and finding my own lawyer who is acting on my behalf only

[BuriramRes]

I tried to do this (house owned by my Thai wife & 30 year lease) but the local land office would not register the lease, he said it was an artificial transaction being between husband & wife.

I think it was a personal thing with him (anti-farang)

[hellodolly]

Check the land title Chanote at land office against owners details, in theory if any loan is attached land office will not sanction transfer until this is paid. If markers are missing have them come and remeasure so you are sure exactly what you are buying. No need to hire a lawyer for this. The lease can also be registered on Chanote without use of lawyer, however you will need to trust your wife on this or have a friend that reads Thai....alternatively yes you could engage the use of a lawyer and their fees will be in the region of 30,000 baht. If you are buying through an agent, they will/should do due diligence for you and assist at the land office also at no cost to you.

Maybe some due diligence on the realtor you choose to use would be the first thing to do.

[watcharacters]

.

You ask.

Here is your first and foremost required reading.

It was posted before but only I couldn't find it with the TV search function. Thank goodness for the good search feature of youtube. IT Works!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2lSOix8vyE

[onni4me]

Why go for 30 year lease, if you can obtain usufruct?

Usufruct applies only when the land in question is not been built before so one has to obtain it before starting building.

That would give you control as long as you live. Not depending some lease holder. And the house would be yours...

I have been building few houses with local builders who all have been working abroad as well and never any problems with them. The land office on the other hand has been a bit problematic depending who is sitting opposite to you. Last time I actually needed to make a formal complaint to the head office since tha guy was asking bribes and didn't budge signing the papers even they were all in order. Took me two extra months and didn't have to pay anything. The guy got the boot, seems that I was not the only one unhappy with him.

[Cuban]

If there is need to protect yourself I strongly suggest using a lawyer that you retain and conduct negotiations in your native language with translated copy of relevant facts. leases and agreements etc.

If you seek the 30 years of an Usufruct agreement with an option for a further 30 years extension which might be wise depending on your age. From reading other cases you would be wise to get the extension agreed at the same time rather than wait 30 years.

Also you must must must address the issues that might arise in the event of your wife's death or significant disablement, what happens to the terms of the Usufrunt and the ownership of the land's title. Also consider the impact on your Visa if it's status is dependent on marriage. If your wife dies you could be expected to leave the country within 7 days, this "fire sale status" places you and your belonging in a buyers market. Don't say it will never happen as Thailand is a country where road deaths are high and we all travel everyday.

The other reason to have things done legally with full documentation is that this sends a clear message through to your Thai relatives that you are a person that does things correctly and with legal back-up. This not only protects you and your position but it provides protection for your wife so that she is less likely to come under pressure from relatives that are undergoing financial pressure and see her fortunate position of having a monied farang as a "family asset" to be milked via the land etc.

Consider an elder uncle/brother that is arrested for cause death while driving drunk etc and needs some large amount of money to avoid jail time or to pay the surviving relatives etc. If the land is unsecured a loan taken out on it will be seen as a quick solution that becomes a debt that is never paid back.

Going the extra mile and paying for water tight legal paperwork that covers all eventualities is not a sign of distrust in your wife but shows you seek to protect her from extortion too.

If the sellers know a farang is involved in the equation the land price goes up.

Look at things like road access and services (water, electric) these affect price, also what recent transactions have happen locally.

Although you can not own the land you can wholly own any building you place on it. There is a well documented case on this forum of a guy whose wife died and the land reverted to her relatives who expected widowed farang to go back to farang-land and leave them a nice farang style house. He was wise to have documentation proving ownership of the building, receipts etc so when Thai relatives refused to pay anything for the house he bulldozed the place to rubble as the Thai police watched having proved he was doing nothing illegal. (Somewhere around Surin IIRC?)

Personally I would not feel it wise to use a Bangkok legal team but one that is established and from a nearby city rather than a small town. What is required in matters legal is connections so pick someone that has been in the business long enough to "know people" that's how things are done. It might be useful to you to find something that can handle other issues should they arise in your life. One friend of mine used to have a lawyer who was the wife of a police chief - that was a very useful relationship to have.

I've read that the optimum distance from relatives is something like 3-5Km, just far away to stop them visiting you for a loan of a cup of sugar etc.

[HUAHIN62]

We only buy land from people we know or have met atleast a number of times. Talk to people staying next to the land you want to buy. The problem with attorneys is that people tend to use them only for big issues. The best is to build a relationship with a company. First you give them something small to test them and if they try to over charge you, you tell them that. As time go by our attorney assistant became part of our business. She gives free advice, check chanotes for us etc. Takes time and patience but if you have a long term view worth it.

Unlike jokers that know nothing your Thai wife are your best asset in buying land if she is anything like my wife. She drives a hard bargain and hates paying to much for anything. Never buy expensive clothes because it will make her itch, never insist on big spending not want anything after I should die. A good wife Thai or not is worth more than her weight in gold.

[rsokolowski]

Don't buy real estate.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I tried to do this (house owned by my Thai wife & 30 year lease) but the local land office would not register the lease, he said it was an artificial transaction being between husband & wife.

I think it was a personal thing with him (anti-farang)

No, he was correct.

Contracts between husband and wife are invalid in Thailand.

[PattayaPhom]

Check the land title Chanote at land office against owners details, in theory if any loan is attached land office will not sanction transfer until this is paid. If markers are missing have them come and remeasure so you are sure exactly what you are buying. No need to hire a lawyer for this. The lease can also be registered on Chanote without use of lawyer, however you will need to trust your wife on this or have a friend that reads Thai....alternatively yes you could engage the use of a lawyer and their fees will be in the region of 30,000 baht. If you are buying through an agent, they will/should do due diligence for you and assist at the land office also at no cost to you.

Maybe some due diligence on the realtor you choose to use would be the first thing to do.

Of course, just the same as you would a dive instructor if you were taking PADI, or teachers if you were having English lessons for your kids or anything else you do.

[Crossy]

I tried to do this (house owned by my Thai wife & 30 year lease) but the local land office would not register the lease, he said it was an artificial transaction being between husband & wife.

I think it was a personal thing with him (anti-farang)

No, he was correct.

Contracts between husband and wife are invalid in Thailand.

Not quite true, a contract between husband and wife can be unilaterally dissolved by either party in the event of divorce.

So a lease or usufruct won't protect you from your ex, but it will give you some leverage with grasping relatives should your wife pre-decease you.

[joeaverage]

Check the land title Chanote at land office against owners details, in theory if any loan is attached land office will not sanction transfer until this is paid. If markers are missing have them come and remeasure so you are sure exactly what you are buying. No need to hire a lawyer for this. The lease can also be registered on Chanote without use of lawyer, however you will need to trust your wife on this or have a friend that reads Thai....alternatively yes you could engage the use of a lawyer and their fees will be in the region of 30,000 baht. If you are buying through an agent, they will/should do due diligence for you and assist at the land office also at no cost to you.

Maybe some due diligence on the realtor you choose to use would be the first thing to do.

Of course, just the same as you would a dive instructor if you were taking PADI, or teachers if you were having English lessons for your kids or anything else you do.

what?

[mogo51]

Most real estate dealers leave much to be desired in Pattaya. i know a very good couple (english/aussie male, thai educated female) that I dealt with and continue to do so, would be happy to give you their particulars if you are a serious buyer. Known them 4 years.

[planetdweller]

I woudn't do it.

[KittenKong]

If you are buying through an agent, they will/should do due diligence for you and assist at the land office also at no cost to you.

In my experience most agents in Pattaya can't even spell "due diligence", let alone perform it. In fact I would describe them as an incompetent shower who cant be trusted to do much more than act as a taxi service (assuming they even have a car at all).

As for it being at no cost, this is unlikely. Any purchase made without the "help" of an agent would normally leave at least another 5% of possible negotiation available before reaching the vendor's minimum price level. For new builds this might be 8%. That's an expensive taxi ride.

[khunbillmex]

Great YouTube vid - even thou I'm now married to Thai for almost 10 years it gives pause for reflection. The land 'we' own in Khon Kaen was actually purchased from her savings over the years here in Mexico - once we sell our houses here and move to LOS who knows what will happen. Back to the vid - since it was so well produced I have a hunch that the likeable UK 'victim' is doing better than portrayed.

Edited July 7, 2013 by khunbillmex

[craigt3365]

A post discussing moderation has been removed from view. As most know, this is a violation of forum rules which we take seriously. And for good reason.

A reply to that post was also removed. Apologies to the member with the good reply.

[almend]

.

You ask.

Here is your first and foremost required reading.

It was posted before but only I couldn't find it with the TV search function. Thank goodness for the good search feature of youtube. IT Works!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2lSOix8vyE

Do you know who made this documentary? I recognize one of the guys living in Krasang from a job in Indonesia. Would like to get in touch.

[swissie]

Don't buy real estate.

Amen! Best post I have ever read in the TV forum for the last 365 years!

Cheers.

[Cuban]

The irony is that as I read this thread on property scams I am inundated with adverts for young Asian ladies and houses for sale in Thailand, is there a synergy between the three?