Pm Thaksin Resigns

[lukamar]

The people of Thailand upcountry generally do not know the complaints against Thaksin as the media is controlled. The people lack information. Once the people get information they will turn against Thaksin.

They all know about the Demonstrations and the accusations, the majority of them don't care. They have more pressing problems, like providing food and shelter. If they lack information who is going to correct that? Not the Democrats they haven't bothered in many many years to win the rural people over, the PAD not likely. The info that they do receive tells them that a bunch of people in Bangkok can afford to take a month off work to march around, and they know they can't. How about the line of Mercedes and Volvos the Businessmen protesting arrived in, individually worth as much as 20 farms in Isaan, that gets the information out just fine. No wonder there is no connection between the middle class and the poor. The northern people are getting info though. One of our good friends and staunch Democrat supporter in Chiang Mai, who voted No Vote because there was no Democrat candidate, is going to vote TRT because she thinks that the Democrats and the PAD are in bed together and don't deserve her vote by the way they acted.

Even my wife who does not like Thaksin or the TRT and would like to see them all go, is now talking about the division of Thailand into 3 separate factions the South, the City and the North caused by the PAD and the Democrats. We were out to dinner last night and everyone in our small Thai-Canadian group thought the same.

[ColPyat]

You are certainly wrong about "the majority". Describe this majority please. And how do you get your information? Are you in Thailand talking to the majority or looking at your computer? Does the number of farmers I have connections to represent the "one class"? Since you are so upset about 'racism' what's your background?

As for corruption, there's way too much here in Thailand. What's happening now is called people power. These events are inspirational giving hope to the majority that I know. The TRT is looking for bullshit explanations for all its abuses; Now that's progress.

My background is homo sapiens sapiens of caucasoid race.

I am in Bangkok this fine morning, just having my coffee. I usually do that after waking up.

I am talking to lots of people of all classes here about the political sitiuation, and if they are Thai, then i do that mostly in Thai language as well.

You may call what is happening whatever you want, call it by all means 'people power' - democracy though it is not. And to many the demnstrations may be inspirational, Nazi ideology and fascism was to many inspirational as well.

[sushiman]

SIDELINES

New political wonder: caretaker prime minister at large

LONDON - Thaksin Shinawatra, the caretaker prime minister on indeterminate leave of absence, is taking time off from the mean world of politics to have a holiday here.

The break might give him some peace of mind while plotting how to stage a comeback with reinvented guile and intrigues.

His current status is also a new wonder in Thai politics. As caretaker prime minister, Thaksin has abandoned his role of taking care of the government and the entire population and instead named a confidant to assume the role of managing the affairs of state while he goes on leave.

The country now has two caretaker prime ministers - one active and one inactive - which actually does not inspire confidence in the country's immediate future, not to mention the long-term prospect of another turbulent period as long as Thaksin does not quit politics for good.

Before leaving Bangkok, Thaksin invited some ambassadors to meet him for what he called "discussions" on his foreign trips. It was disclosed later that he wanted to have private visits and chummy talks with US President George W Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair, among others.

London is bustling with tourists roaming the city during the Easter weekend. Among the various attractions, they stop at No 10 Downing Street on their stroll along Whitehall for a peek at the famous residence. If the gate swings open for an Asian visitor whose face appeared on Time magazine's Asia edition last week, it may arouse some curiosity among onlookers.

It is not certain that Blair can spare the time to meet the embattled chap from Thailand now that he too has to deal with a scandal over cash for honours. But a meeting may prove valuable after all. At least Blair can get few tips from his Asian pal on how to survive personal political crises arising from scandals, especially those linking massive corruption and abuse of power.

If Thaksin has time, he can fly to Italy and also give advice to Silvio Berlusconi, who is in the same league in terms of wealth from business, flair in political marketing and how to make the best use of the media for political gain.

Of course, the friend from Asia can also enlighten the embittered Italian on how to avoid a sudden downfall through deception and scheming. Berlusconi might not have lost his re-election bid by a hairline margin had he learned some tricks from the polls in amazing Thailand, especially how to win a one-horse race.

But Blair and Berlusconi seem to lack an exceptional quality the Asian guest possesses - an unfathomable resistance to all kinds of accusations, no matter how truthful and solid the evidence his adversaries are able to produce. The rule of law is a just matter of nuisance.

One also must be able to ignore for months tens of thousands of people in the streets shouting "Get out" or "Down with tyranny!" during rallies and demonstrations. Let them holler till hel_l freezes over, as long as one retains control over the government and all legal machinery to settle scores with those street pipsqueaks later.

Thaksin, his critics say, has been stalling for time to make sure his multibillion-baht wealth - amassed through Shin Corp and from the sale of his family's stake in the company - is in a safe place, beyond the reach of any subsequent investigations for malfeasance and all sorts of wrongdoing over the past five years.

That's why he set the condition in his delegation of power to the active caretaker prime minister, Chidchai Vanasatidya, that matters of utmost importance still have to be handled by him. This is for his protection and self preservation while the country is in the doldrums while awaiting the results of a protracted general election that nobody can predict the end of.

While away, Thaksin's cronies at home are very active in vindictive legal pursuits, dragging their boss's enemies to the Criminal Court on charges of libel. This will put the leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy on the defensive with legal troubles. Never mind the public outcry over the double standards shown in selective legal proceedings.

Thai Rak Thai candidates might feel proud of their election victories in the absence of serious challengers. Yet it remains in serious doubt how they can come up with legal tricks to convene the House of Representatives and elect Thaksin's successor. There is no way they can have all 500 MPs in the House within the time limit.

More trouble ahead, obviously. Yet independent agencies are also struggling to explore various avenues to serve Thaksin's political agenda. This is so that he can regain the status of leader with the help of his huge war chest and a willingness to spend taxpayer money to boost his popularity among rural grassroots voters, who are feeling the pinch due to debts.

It is not known how long Thaksin will be in London as there are reports that he wants to visit Texas, supposedly to have a chat with President Bush. If he is still here, Thais in London may stage an unpleasant surprise for him by rallying in front of the Thai Embassy next week.

This is so that he will not miss the familiar scenes at Sanam Luang and around Government House of the past two months, or that infamous song written to fully describe what he has done to the country in the past five years.

Sopon Onkgara

Source - The Nation - 16 April 2006

[sushiman]

Chidchai defends anti-PAD probe

Compiled by Bangkokpost.com

Acting Prime Minister Chidchai Wannasathit is insisting that legal action against the leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy is a simple case that one group of society believes that the recent anti-thaksin protesters were allowed to break the law.

Pol Gen Chidchai told Radio Thailand that legal actions against PAD leaders would be lawful. Police, he said need to take into account the views of many parties. Citizens of up-country provinces believed that the protesters broke laws during their rallies, and police will investigate that.

The acting premier, put in charge of government when Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra went abroad last week, denied the anti-PAD moves were an example of powerful politicians seeking vengeance.

Thai News Agency reported that Pol Gen Chidchai also defended the request by Mr Thaksin to meet with foreign leaders. Mr Thaksin can meet leaders of foreign countries during his private visits, he said.

The acting premier said Mr Thaksin hopes to see British Prime Minister Tony Blair and Presidents George W. Bush and Jacques Chirac of the US and France as friends, and without an official agenda.

Mr Thaksin also plans to visit China and Japan later this month.

"Despite his decision to take a pause from politics, the caretaker prime minister can meet leaders of other countries as friends. Don't cause any confusion to the public and don't bury him by verbal attacks," Pol Gen Chidchai said.

"Everybody loves the motherland and won't do anything detrimental to the nation," said Pol Gen Chidchai. "I, believe [Mr Thaksin] will do everything beneficial to the nation as well. As a caretaker prime minister, he still has to work for the nation."

Source - Bangkok Post - 16. April 2006

[sushiman]

Chidchai defends anti-PAD probe

Pol Gen Chidchai told Radio Thailand that legal actions against PAD leaders would be lawful.

Police, he said need to take into account the views of many parties. Citizens of up-country provinces believed that the protesters broke laws during their rallies, and police will investigate that.

Source - Bangkok Post - 16. April 2006

Of course Mr. Chidchai, everything TRT and the courts do is lawful, because you are the law.

I mean just listen to these TRT rhetorics, it turns your stomache over. (hands up, who doesn't see Thaksin inside and behind this man?).

The up-country people are being now not only misused to catch votes and stay in power, but now also have to play the accusation party in the twist against the PAD, again to stay in power too, and shut the opposition up. TRT is neutral. Nice a view people were claiming against the PAD from upcountry, this is so unbelievable... how poor the IQ of these people..... even from the top....wahhhhhhh unbelievable

First I thought when I read he will go to meet some Students in the South, this will be maybe another guy, not like Thaksin, we'll see, but he's rhetorics are clearly the same:

Take the power, but no responsability for unpopular decisions and all is to be blamed by others, and no one else can be right, only TRT........ufff......it's to crazy...can't believe it

Edited April 16, 2006 by sushiman

[jdinasia]

You are certainly wrong about "the majority". Describe this majority please. And how do you get your information? Are you in Thailand talking to the majority or looking at your computer? Does the number of farmers I have connections to represent the "one class"? Since you are so upset about 'racism' what's your background?

As for corruption, there's way too much here in Thailand. What's happening now is called people power. These events are inspirational giving hope to the majority that I know. The TRT is looking for bullshit explanations for all its abuses; Now that's progress.

My background is homo sapiens sapiens of caucasoid race.

I am in Bangkok this fine morning, just having my coffee. I usually do that after waking up.

I am talking to lots of people of all classes here about the political sitiuation, and if they are Thai, then i do that mostly in Thai language as well.

You may call what is happening whatever you want, call it by all means 'people power' - democracy though it is not. And to many the demnstrations may be inspirational, Nazi ideology and fascism was to many inspirational as well.

Oi ....

secret service ... Thaksin's son .... the PAD leaders (no wait .. not leaders) and now Nazi idealogy and facism?

[jdinasia]

The people of Thailand upcountry generally do not know the complaints against Thaksin as the media is controlled. The people lack information. Once the people get information they will turn against Thaksin.

They all know about the Demonstrations and the accusations, the majority of them don't care. They have more pressing problems, like providing food and shelter. If they lack information who is going to correct that? Not the Democrats they haven't bothered in many many years to win the rural people over, the PAD not likely.[/b] The info that they do receive tells them that a bunch of people in Bangkok can afford to take a month off work to march around, and they know they can't. How about the line of Mercedes and Volvos the Businessmen protesting arrived in, individually worth as much as 20 farms in Isaan, that gets the information out just fine. OMG ... you can't be serious! The press was WAY less controlled and the broadcast media way more balanced before Thaksin. You obviously don't quite get it if you think that all the people at the rallies took 1 month off .... and you seem to fail to remember the weeks of Pro-Thaksin farmer rallies from the North/Isaan. The Line of Mercedes and Volvos? (What do the TRT MP's drive? ... what are they Businessmen?)

No wonder there is no connection between the middle class and the poor.

oi

The northern people are getting info though. One of our good friends and staunch Democrat supporter in Chiang Mai, who voted No Vote because there was no Democrat candidate, is going to vote TRT because she thinks that the Democrats and the PAD are in bed together and don't deserve her vote by the way they acted. oi again

Even my wife who does not like Thaksin or the TRT and would like to see them all go, is now talking about the division of Thailand into 3 separate factions the South, the City and the North caused by the PAD and the Democrats. We were out to dinner last night and everyone in our small Thai-Canadian group thought the same.

How are the Demos (traditionally strong in the South and with a decent Base in BKK) responsible? Wasn't it Thaksin under TRT that decided he could forget about BKK and the South thus creating the schism? oi oi oi

All the Thai/Canadian group thinks the same? wow!

[ColPyat]

Oi ....

secret service ... Thaksin's son .... the PAD leaders (no wait .. not leaders) and now Nazi idealogy and facism?

[slimdog]

An interesting article:

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:awrDBp...ca&ct=clnk&cd=1

or download in .doc format

http://www.thinkcentreasia.org/documents/corruptionhope.doc.

[jdinasia]

huh? a 7 year old article ..... WAY dated now

Edited April 16, 2006 by jdinasia

[slimdog]

It was precisely because it was a 7 year old article that I posted the link..

Dated ? In many ways I wish it was...

[ColPyat]

huh? a 7 year old article ..... WAY dated now

Dated, so what?

The article shows extremely well that TRT did not invent corruption, that the scandals have been there before, that they will be there after, and that changing things will be a slow uphill struggle with no quick fix.

[jdinasia]

But law is only a paper tiger if there is no social pressure for enforcement. The public pressure is even more important in countries where politicians and political parties have already got used to augmenting their private revenue by extracting from the flow of public expenditure during the time they hold the office of government. These politicians will try to resist introducing and implementing anti-corruption measures, as well as tightening government control over economic activities and over government institutions for purposes of ensuring the flow of corruption revenue (Johnson, 1975).

Scandals and public pressures.

In recent years there has been a phenomenon of popular revolt against corruption in Thai society—an outburst of whistle blowers, and a flood of exposed corruption scandals concerning officials and politicians. Let us have a look at some of them before discussing further whether all these scandals and public pressures have made things better.

lol ... ok and the PAD etc ......

but still tremendously dated.

Would be cool if the Author re-wrote it today though

[backflip]

"My background is homo sapiens sapiens of caucasoid race. I am in Bangkok this fine morning, just having my coffee. I usually do that after waking up."

Thanks for the info. If you feel the urge to tell us about your bathroom activities, please don't.

[Plus]

Pasuk Phongpaichit and Cris Baker wrote a lot of books about Thailand, among them a book dedicated to Thaksin, and a book about business and politics in Thailand and their views of corruption under TRT are far more critical than that seven year old article.

You can read many Pasuk's papers here:

http://pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th/~ppasuk/papers.htm

[slimdog]

Plus

I think you missed the point. The reason that I posted the above link wasn't to show criticism of any politician or political party. The reason for the post was to show people what the feelings were 7 years ago, Yes there was (and still is corruption), but more importantly there was also a feeling of hope. Hope for the new constitution and institutions that were just coming into play.

Whilst the article did mention some of the corruption cases which were around at the time, for me the most important part was:

Quote

"But ultimately what will bring success will be popular pressure—the popular will exerted through petitions with 50,000 signatures; through the ballot box to reject corrupt politicians; and through public opinion to make everyday corrupt practices unacceptable in Thai society. "

Even so, one has to wonder exactly what has been achieved in the 7 years since the article was published. It is easy to look at one politician, or one political party, and lay the blame there. But that really does miss the point, doesn't it.....

[jdinasia]

but those checks and balances the article referred to failed under the applied stressors ... as did everything mentioned in the article except pressure from the people

[lukamar]

How about the line of Mercedes and Volvos the Businessmen protesting arrived in, individually worth as much as 20 farms in Isaan, that gets the information out just fine.

The Line of Mercedes and Volvos? (What do the TRT MP's drive? ... what are they Businessmen?)

What kind of misplaced spin is that answer. The protesting business men arrived at the PAD rally with a long line of Expensive cars, it has nothing to do with MP's or what they drive. Maybe you should read your own rules, start with Rule 1.

[jdinasia]

huh? It's a fair comment ... if the Business men that represent them dive the same types of cars .... then they aren't very representative are they? .... either that or people's cars aren't the issues ... but nice picking that out of the post ... and leaving all the rest for a week

But even a better question .... since the PAD rallies were not covered well by the broadcast media ... (no coverage of the arriving "businessmen" ... and the print media that did cover it didn't show people climbing out of cars .... exactly how would the PAD folks be seen to be climbing out of cars in Isaan? Maybe they all have Satellite TV? nooooo

Edited April 17, 2006 by jdinasia

[ColPyat]

But even a better question .... since the PAD rallies were not covered well by the broadcast media ... (no coverage of the arriving "businessmen" ... and the print media that did cover it didn't show people climbing out of cars .... exactly how would the PAD folks be seen to be climbing out of cars in Isaan? Maybe they all have Satellite TV? nooooo

That again is an assumption which is completely wrong. The PAD rallies were only initially not covered that well, but as soon as they got really big, they were covered by all channels. Channel 7 even had at some times life coverage.

Some of the coverage was not that positive, and as a result an ITV reporter was attacked and threatened during one of the rallies by demonstrators. And that incident was well reported.

[jdinasia]

ummm no ... they were "not covered well" is an accurate statement

there was almost 0 live coverage .... and none that I saw of of "lines of businessmen getting out of" expensive cars ...

Edited April 17, 2006 by jdinasia

[ColPyat]

ummm no ... they were "not covered well" is an accurate statement

there was almost 0 live coverage .... and none that I saw of of "lines of businessmen getting out of" expensive cars ...

I don't have UBC out of principle, and therefore watch Thai news on the official channels. I have seen lots of life coverage, especially on channel 7, which had over long periods a small screen inserted which has shown the demonstrations. Every hourly news there were reports on the demonstrations.

But what can i say, i have proven to you already several times that incidents you have not seen as reported did actually happen, and were reported.

[Plus]

The reason that I posted the above link wasn't to show criticism of any politician or political party. The reason for the post was to show people what the feelings were 7 years ago, Yes there was (and still is corruption), but more importantly there was also a feeling of hope. Hope for the new constitution and institutions that were just coming into play.

I agree, unfortunately corruption grew and feelings disappeared.

Pasuk's predictions were that conflict between businessmen sponsor and farmers will tear apart TRT.

Tirayuth's predictions were that it's middle class mass-demonstrations against rampant corruption that will bring Thaksin down.

Now we know who was right, not that Pasuk was totally wrong either.

To say that PAD rallied consisted only of businessmen arriving in BMWs is mildly outrageous. Most business people actually stayed away and kept their views private.

[jdinasia]

ummm no ... they were "not covered well" is an accurate statement

there was almost 0 live coverage .... and none that I saw of of "lines of businessmen getting out of" expensive cars ...

I don't have UBC out of principle, and therefore watch Thai news on the official channels. I have seen lots of life coverage, especially on channel 7, which had over long periods a small screen inserted which has shown the demonstrations. Every hourly news there were reports on the demonstrations.

But what can i say, i have proven to you already several times that incidents you have not seen as reported did actually happen, and were reported.

LOL

several times?

... once .... missed a short blurb ...

but as for "life"<sic> coveage there was almost o for the longest time .... radio shows cancelled ... coverage cancelled .... finally in the last 2 weeks there was SOME coverage on TV ...

and that likee you pointed out was often screen in screen that showed next to noghting ... and certainly not lines of BMW's etc ... those were only visible from Canada. "Every hourly news" ... there were mentions of the Rallies ... not real coverage. Kinda like daying "The Olympics are happening" and not even showing highlights

but no one can keep up with Batman and Superman and ... and .... and ....

[ColPyat]

but no one can keep up with Batman and Superman and ... and .... and ....

I believe you should stick to your second rule regarding humor. This comment wasn't funny the first time for anyone above primary school level, and the more it gets repeated the staler it becomes. Haven't you heard that bad jokes don't get better the more they get repeated?

[jdinasia]

Sorry ... I will leave those outrageous claims out of it in the future ....

But I am amazed you can claim "life" coverage above particularly when the point in question was BMW's

[ColPyat]

Sorry ... I will leave those outrageous claims out of it in the future ....

But I am amazed you can claim "life" coverage above particularly when the point in question was BMW's

Thanks.

Regarding businessmen in their BMW's and the other big cars joining the demonstrations, i have just asked the wife, and she said that they were shown prominently on Thai TV news.

[jdinasia]

lol

Ummm I believe she is mistaken butthat's cool! I did watch the news and didn't see them ... The Cameras at the Rallies were showing the crowds and the stage almost all the time! (in the rare instance that I wasn't having to watch from satellite)

The coverage might have showed Thaksin and his gang showing up at JJ in BMW;s though

Edited April 17, 2006 by jdinasia

[lukamar]

But I am amazed you can claim "life" coverage above particularly when the point in question was BMW's

Over here in Canada, as you like to always state, we watch Thai TV on the Internet. We get 5, 9, 11, Nation and ITV. Maybe you should watch on your computer, have your TV fixed or pay your UBC bill. Nation and ITV covered the Expensive Car incident and we managed to catch it even way over here or maybe you were protesting during the broadcasts.

[jdinasia]

huh? It's a fair comment ... if the Business men that represent them dive the same types of cars .... then they aren't very representative are they? .... either that or people's cars aren't the issues ... but nice picking that out of the post ... and leaving all the rest for a week

But even a better question .... since the PAD rallies were not covered well by the broadcast media ... (no coverage of the arriving "businessmen" ... and the print media that did cover it didn't show people climbing out of cars .... exactly how would the PAD folks be seen to be climbing out of cars in Isaan? Maybe they all have Satellite TV? nooooo

But I am amazed you can claim "life" coverage above particularly when the point in question was BMW's

Over here in Canada, as you like to always state, we watch Thai TV on the Internet. We get 5, 9, 11, Nation and ITV. Maybe you should watch on your computer, have your TV fixed or pay your UBC bill. Nation and ITV covered the Expensive Car incident and we managed to catch it even way over here or maybe you were protesting during the broadcasts.

lol

Gotcha ..... I'll look up the "Expensive Car Incident" ... might have to look in Canadian press .... but again ... didn't see it ... watch the news LIVE here ... not that early on there was very much coverage at all! and strangely I understand it without having someone explain it to me.

I am sure you made "The Expensive Car Incident" a major event online when you saw it ... but I haven't found any mention of it ....

I did however remember an article about a plane being purchased and a PM driving HIS BMW way too fast to be legal not too long ago

Yet again I get painted as a protestor .... if going to a rally or two makes me one then you better talk to ColPyat he was chatting with the leaders ... I just went for a quick looksee