Practitioner mauled by tiger at temple sanctuary in Nakhon Pathom

[hellodolly]

No idea why the tiger would attack?

"Tiger attacks in the Sundarbans, in India and Bangladesh are estimated to kill from 50-250 people per year."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_attacks_in_the_Sundarbans

Maybe the Police got their education watching cereal commercials

Screen Shot 2013-07-08 at 11.38.37 AM.jpg

And what were the people who were killed , doing.?? Illegal farming :logging; poaching etc etc.

Are you suggesting Tigers should be given badges and authorized to arrest judge and carry out the sentence on the spot?

[hellodolly]

Why are they being kept at a temple other than to bring in money.

Release them back to the wild where they belong

That is the $64 000 question! They call them Tiger 'sanctuaries', but in reality it is just a money spinner for head Monks. This is how they start on their way to private jets and Louis Vuitton bags!

Just how many Monks have private jets and Louis Vuitton bags?

to the best of my knowledge one.

This is Thailand the Louis Vuitton bag could have been a knock off.

I agree that Tigers are kept in some pretty confining places but what gets me is they will keep them sedated.

Just out of curiosity why can they not run free in Thailand? Why do they need these so called sanctuaries.

.....so the head Monks can make good coin!

Sorry that just shows your anti religion.

Here in Chiang Mai we have tiger land and it is not on a Wat. I am quite sure there are others in the Kingdom also.

Why not just admit it you don't know.

I don't so I asked the question.

If any one has any information I would appreciate it.

[Robi Schwab]

This was a tragedy waiting to happened as number of other temples are keeping tigers

and other wild animals for show and tell and act as an attractions for visitors to come

see and donate, and yet, no government body has a problem with un qualified people

raising wild animals, you try to keep a tiger in your back yard or condo and see how

fast the authorities will come to bear on you, but monks are exempt..

Oh PLEASE. Could we be just REALISTIC here for a change?

[hellodolly]

I've photographed wild animals, including tigers, in their natural habitat. I've had the

experience of once in a lifetime encounters with "wild animals" on more than one

occasion where "it all went nicely thank you". I've literally crapped my pants a good

many times when "it didn't go nicely". We humans like to call animals either domestic

or wild due to how they can or cannot "work" for/with us whereas a truly wild animal

works for itself or its like group and could really care less for humans and what we

humans do or think. Hell...we used to be hunters...then became farmers and have

now mostly become couch potato's thanks to supermarkets...and the mom & pop

corner store. The only hunting we do nowadays is down some aisle looking for

a nice prime rib, some veggies, ice cream and Lord knows what else.

Wild animals in cages are kept for OUR amusement...remember that.

Not the animal's.

Especially since present day man wouldn't survive a day in a "wild" animals

realm even if surrounded by grazers and not a carnivorous predator around

for miles. Sadly due to some mythical beliefs quite a bunch of "wild" animals

must be kept in nature parks & zoo's just to try and preserve their species

for future generations. Their's not ours.

A tiger in the "wild" has a range of over 50 kilometers per day...more if food

is scarce....no zoo is that large and a so called sanctuary is in effect cruel

and unusual punnishment of any wild animal who...in effect...is just wanting

to feed itself/group, relax after a good meal and enjoy its life the way that

wild animal see's fit.

I doubt any monk in any sanctuary can speak even a few phrases of Tiger;

which are mostly rumbling grunts of joy or anger (sometimes hard to

differentiate) or can, with some accuracy, tell if a tiger or any "wild" animal

for that matter...simply wants to be left alone. Pertaining to myself and being

around "wild" animals far more than should be allowed, I'm no expert in

wild animal behaviour, however there is 30+ years observing these critters

behind me and I do believe I have gaduated from rookie to advanced apprentice.

Which means I can...with reasonable accuracy say that any "sanctuary",

anywhere in the world....that let's the generally ignorant public interact with

"wild" animals on or in its compound...is inviting trouble in a sugar coated way.

There is also no such thing as a sanctuary when the general ignorant public

is allowed inside it...it then becomes an oxymoron...where does sanctuary

go? Right out the window that's where. Or it ends up in the paper as the animals

fault.

edited to tidy up some spelling...fat fingeritis..

Thank you I should have read your post before asking my questions. It did a good job of relating reality to people who are interested in it.

I still feel that the animals should be given more room and not tranquilized. The living conditions for them could definatly do with an upgrade.

[annabel]

Why are they being kept at a temple other than to bring in money.

Release them back to the wild where they belong

But...But... But...!! Where are our lovely DNP super comcerned about Thailands wonderful wild life being kept illegally and under very bad conditions from what I can see here ....

[sunshine51]

I've photographed wild animals, including tigers, in their natural habitat. I've had the

experience of once in a lifetime encounters with "wild animals" on more than one

occasion where "it all went nicely thank you". I've literally crapped my pants a good

many times when "it didn't go nicely". We humans like to call animals either domestic

or wild due to how they can or cannot "work" for/with us whereas a truly wild animal

works for itself or its like group and could really care less for humans and what we

humans do or think. Hell...we used to be hunters...then became farmers and have

now mostly become couch potato's thanks to supermarkets...and the mom & pop

corner store. The only hunting we do nowadays is down some aisle looking for

a nice prime rib, some veggies, ice cream and Lord knows what else.

Wild animals in cages are kept for OUR amusement...remember that.

Not the animal's.

Especially since present day man wouldn't survive a day in a "wild" animals

realm even if surrounded by grazers and not a carnivorous predator around

for miles. Sadly due to some mythical beliefs quite a bunch of "wild" animals

must be kept in nature parks & zoo's just to try and preserve their species

for future generations. Their's not ours.

A tiger in the "wild" has a range of over 50 kilometers per day...more if food

is scarce....no zoo is that large and a so called sanctuary is in effect cruel

and unusual punnishment of any wild animal who...in effect...is just wanting

to feed itself/group, relax after a good meal and enjoy its life the way that

wild animal see's fit.

I doubt any monk in any sanctuary can speak even a few phrases of Tiger;

which are mostly rumbling grunts of joy or anger (sometimes hard to

differentiate) or can, with some accuracy, tell if a tiger or any "wild" animal

for that matter...simply wants to be left alone. Pertaining to myself and being

around "wild" animals far more than should be allowed, I'm no expert in

wild animal behaviour, however there is 30+ years observing these critters

behind me and I do believe I have gaduated from rookie to advanced apprentice.

Which means I can...with reasonable accuracy say that any "sanctuary",

anywhere in the world....that let's the generally ignorant public interact with

"wild" animals on or in its compound...is inviting trouble in a sugar coated way.

There is also no such thing as a sanctuary when the general ignorant public

is allowed inside it...it then becomes an oxymoron...where does sanctuary

go? Right out the window that's where. Or it ends up in the paper as the animals

fault.

edited to tidy up some spelling...fat fingeritis..

Thank you I should have read your post before asking my questions. It did a good job of relating reality to people who are interested in it.

I still feel that the animals should be given more room and not tranquilized. The living conditions for them could definatly do with an upgrade.

Any of these so called "sanctuaries" could use some serious upgrading HD. As far as being tranquilized...hell most of the

human race is on Prozac or something similar. Still a crying shame to see magnificent animals such as tigers addicted to

dope. Damn crying shame that.

[annabel]

This was a tragedy waiting to happened as number of other temples are keeping tigers

and other wild animals for show and tell and act as an attractions for visitors to come

see and donate, and yet, no government body has a problem with un qualified people

raising wild animals, you try to keep a tiger in your back yard or condo and see how

fast the authorities will come to bear on you, but monks are exempt..

Oh PLEASE. Could we be just REALISTIC here for a change?

I agree... Monks seem to be exempt of everything.....!! whereas NO! NOT UNQUALIFIED PEOPLE keeping an animal in their back yards should be ... they don't qualify ..... but decent hard working people such as WFFT / Edwin who has devoted umpteen years saving and trying to keep the wild life of Thailand on a proper balance and educate the locals about the importance of wild life ... and who has been hounded over and over again by Thailand's famous DNP.... makes me sick!

[annabel]

I have friends who pose their kids with these tigers. Good luck!

Tell your friends NOT TO!! Sinple nah?

[annabel]

I have been to several of these "sanctuary's", with the family, maybe even at this same wat. I would consider them more as animal dumps, since all the animals are crammed into small dirty cages. I was told these animals have been "rescued", but looks more like they were acquired just to make money. Its a shame that people who pretend to hold life so dear, can do this to animals, and the people that visit these places, enjoying the suffering. Makes no sense to me. I really dont think many farang would go to these places, unless tricked by a tour operator, by telling they were going to a Sanctuary, or in my case, Thai family, wanting to see wildlife.

Are you kidding...?? It's mostly farangs ( not all Thais at all ) but ALL OTHER NATIONALITIES from Asia as well as Europe and other Western Countries !! THey are all so clueless as same applies to the ones going the stupid touristy elephant camps ...

[annabel]

No idea why the tiger would attack?

"Tiger attacks in the Sundarbans, in India and Bangladesh are estimated to kill from 50-250 people per year."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_attacks_in_the_Sundarbans

Maybe the Police got their education watching cereal commercials

Screen Shot 2013-07-08 at 11.38.37 AM.jpg

And what were the people who were killed , doing.?? Illegal farming :logging; poaching etc etc.

Or is it possibly because US wonderful loving humans have destroyed their natural habitat in all of these countries ...?? Duh..........??

[GentlemanJim]

Just how many Monks have private jets and Louis Vuitton bags?

to the best of my knowledge one.

This is Thailand the Louis Vuitton bag could have been a knock off.

I agree that Tigers are kept in some pretty confining places but what gets me is they will keep them sedated.

Just out of curiosity why can they not run free in Thailand? Why do they need these so called sanctuaries.

.....so the head Monks can make good coin!

Sorry that just shows your anti religion.

Here in Chiang Mai we have tiger land and it is not on a Wat. I am quite sure there are others in the Kingdom also.

Why not just admit it you don't know.

I don't so I asked the question.

If any one has any information I would appreciate it.

Can you explain how that makes me 'anti religion' and come to that matter, what if I am, are you telling me I have to believe in a religion. What has all that got to do with Tigers and Wats taking up to 3 million a month to keep their Tigers in a Sanctuary, one that does not reflect their habitat, but one where they are led around all day in chains, drugged up so they can pose for an ever more financially grateful audience of tourists? I think you will find one answer is as good as another Hellodolly, as there is no answer, and if you don't like answers that may disagree with your own, then don't ask questions.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

The most comprehensive study of deaths due to tiger attacks estimates that at least 373,000 people died due to tiger attacks between 1800 and 2009, the majority of these attacks occurring in South and Southeast Asia.^[1]

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_attack}

The human species and tiger species aren't so compatible.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Everybody is so brave and cavalier about tiger attacks. You want one of these in your backyard?

Go visit the Sunderbunds of India and wear some tiger bait around your neck.

Time to weed out the shall we say "special" students.

[Emdog]

regarding the tiger freak show for fun and profit, and " I should Think that regular meditations and the karmic aura a monk would have, would allow them to be better equipped to nurture wild animals." There is a Sufi saying perhaps applies here: "Pick up a bee from kindness, and learn the limitations of kindness".

[annabel]

We are destroying ourselves by destroying our natural surroundings .. ! As simple as that !!

"Einstein's theory-- it's was , oh, only a couple years ago-- that he said .............When all Bees leave this planet, within about four years, there would be no more food to sustain life anywhere on the planet, to pollinate orchards, pollinate everything out there...Without the bees, there is no life, there is no food to eat. So we're going to get real hungry really soon without bees," ..................

and without all are other lovely animals which are now farmed in mega factories and stuffed with antibiotics and die in super unhealthy ways to feed us humans .. ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......... welcome to the future of earth ..

no more trees , no more animals ..................... ...... Lovely Nah???

[Emdog]

regarding the tiger freak show for fun and profit, and " I should Think that regular meditations and the karmic aura a monk would have, would allow them to be better equipped to nurture wild animals." There is a Sufi saying perhaps applies here: "Pick up a bee from kindness, and learn the limitations of kindness".

[Beetlejuice]

These animals are being used and abused for profits and all funded by the dumb ignorant tourists who pay to visit these institutions of suffering and cruelty.

They are not animal sanctuaries but businesses. Hate to say this; but a few mauling`s and some serious injuries maybe the only thing that makes the so-called monks come to their senses and realise that trying to interact people with wild animals is not viable and best to shut these places down.

[Suroo]

I went to the one up near River Kway a few weekends back,

That place I guestimated makes over 3million baht a month, not a bad earner.

I visited this sanctuary 5 years ago. We, the tourists , were walked with 7 or 8 tigers (held by small junior monks) into a dug out quarry. I remember thinking that if the tigers freak out there's no escape. This is perhaps the first of these places and is the subject of many documentaries. I'm convinced that it's a (scientifically) pointless project- a money making gimick. These tigers can never be returned to the wild and it's possible that they were originally poached from the wild. Any by the way- what business is it of monks to be running zoos?

[hellodolly]

Just how many Monks have private jets and Louis Vuitton bags?

to the best of my knowledge one.

This is Thailand the Louis Vuitton bag could have been a knock off.

I agree that Tigers are kept in some pretty confining places but what gets me is they will keep them sedated.

Just out of curiosity why can they not run free in Thailand? Why do they need these so called sanctuaries.

.....so the head Monks can make good coin!

Sorry that just shows your anti religion.

Here in Chiang Mai we have tiger land and it is not on a Wat. I am quite sure there are others in the Kingdom also.

Why not just admit it you don't know.

I don't so I asked the question.

If any one has any information I would appreciate it.

Can you explain how that makes me 'anti religion' and come to that matter, what if I am, are you telling me I have to believe in a religion. What has all that got to do with Tigers and Wats taking up to 3 million a month to keep their Tigers in a Sanctuary, one that does not reflect their habitat, but one where they are led around all day in chains, drugged up so they can pose for an ever more financially grateful audience of tourists? I think you will find one answer is as good as another Hellodolly, as there is no answer, and if you don't like answers that may disagree with your own, then don't ask questions.

Tigers in Wat's and you immediately talk Monks and money. I do not agree with the conditions they are in yet I knew there was more to it than what you would have people believe. You gave no answer really just an accusation.

Perhaps you might not like the answer sunshine51 gave but it made a lot more sense than just dumping on Buddhism. sorry about that I know Buddhism is not a religion but I look at them the same.

[DiNiro]

Are wildlife traffickers using temples and monks to shirk the law I wonder?

[GentlemanJim]

Sorry that just shows your anti religion.

Here in Chiang Mai we have tiger land and it is not on a Wat. I am quite sure there are others in the Kingdom also.

Why not just admit it you don't know.

I don't so I asked the question.

If any one has any information I would appreciate it.

Can you explain how that makes me 'anti religion' and come to that matter, what if I am, are you telling me I have to believe in a religion. What has all that got to do with Tigers and Wats taking up to 3 million a month to keep their Tigers in a Sanctuary, one that does not reflect their habitat, but one where they are led around all day in chains, drugged up so they can pose for an ever more financially grateful audience of tourists? I think you will find one answer is as good as another Hellodolly, as there is no answer, and if you don't like answers that may disagree with your own, then don't ask questions.

Tigers in Wat's and you immediately talk Monks and money. I do not agree with the conditions they are in yet I knew there was more to it than what you would have people believe. You gave no answer really just an accusation.

Perhaps you might not like the answer sunshine51 gave but it made a lot more sense than just dumping on Buddhism. sorry about that I know Buddhism is not a religion but I look at them the same.

OK, I surrender, now enlighten me. If there is more to it than what I would have others believe then please tell me what that is. If there is more to it then why is entry to view the Tigers not free. Why are the Wat's making millions of baht profit per month. Surely just voluntary donations would be enough to feed the animals. It is a business, an enterprise and they are playing to peoples emotions. If there was more to it than what I say why are all the profits not spent on making luxury accommodation for the animals. Why are the animals not being given help and rehabilitation to get back into the wild. Anyone with an interest in these animals would have them transferred to the great forest areas in India or China if they deem Thailand unsuitable. So what else is there to it?

[DocN]

Oh...but wait!

What about the lovely tigers, living peacefully with the holy men?

The monks would never harm the tigers and the tigers turned into lamb, solely by the love of Buddha and his holy messengers.

Don't tell me, that was just a made up lie for all the new age- freaks, who think that everything "Buddhist" is just so great and amazing and cool and if they take home a Buddha- statue for their living room and a some other souvenir...handmade by some Tibetian refugees (eg. children in a sweat shop) they will already be blessed by the inner light blah blah blah.

A tiger is a 1 ton killing machine, designed by nature to be exactly that.

A tiger, no matter how long it is living in captivity will never be anything else but that.

And like a dog, it will try to attack the alpha- male (or any beta or gamma) sooner or later, if it sees a chance.

Here: esoteric BS- There: reality!

Check it out, sometimes!

Edited July 9, 2013 by DocN

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Might have gotten a little carried away with the 1 ton part.

Siberian tigers top out at about 1/4 ton. Most Tigers are lucky to make half that weight.

It's not like a cat even needs to be that big to be dangerous. A house cat can pretty dangerous if it gets freaked out.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_average_weight_of_a_tiger

[Curt1591]

I went to the one up near River Kway a few weekends back,

That place I guestimated makes over 3million baht a month, not a bad earner.

I visited this sanctuary 5 years ago. We, the tourists , were walked with 7 or 8 tigers (held by small junior monks) into a dug out quarry. I remember thinking that if the tigers freak out there's no escape. This is perhaps the first of these places and is the subject of many documentaries. I'm convinced that it's a (scientifically) pointless project- a money making gimick. These tigers can never be returned to the wild and it's possible that they were originally poached from the wild. Any by the way- what business is it of monks to be running zoos?

I never entered the Tiger Temple, but I finally did visit the grounds. It is quite obvious that the monks aren't running the "zoo". The "zoo" is run as a business.

The original intent of the place is all but lost. Publicity and popularity has created a monster.

[DocN]

Might have gotten a little carried away with the 1 ton part.

Siberian tigers top out at about 1/4 ton. Most Tigers are lucky to make half that weight.

It's not like a cat even needs to be that big to be dangerous. A house cat can pretty dangerous if it gets freaked out.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_average_weight_of_a_tiger

Just have him charge at you with hi- speed...

[Thai at Heart]

What is a temple "practitioner"?

[katana]

Lookiing at pics of the monks posing with the tigers, unfortunately it was only a matter of time before something like this happened.

[Robi Schwab]

What is a temple "practitioner"?

In essence it's just a Monk.

[ginjag]

If you have these fantastic cats in an enclosure, Try LONGLEAT if thats the right spelling, -- it's not perfect BUT it gives the cats a large amount of space.

Just look at the PEN, they are kept in. not fit for any animal.

Maybe these cats cannot be released to the wild, they may have lost the art of fending for themselves, or a.n. other BUT treat them with respect with PROPER keepers.

[kannot]

Sh*t I hope the Tiger is ok???