Japan Says It Faces Increasing Threats from China, North Korea

[Sing_Sling]

@ SingSling

China are on the warpath.

Go and live there and get a proper understanding about the mentality which you can't get from media reports.

Hi Ho Tonto.

I don't need to live there to know that - I may be repeating myself but I have been there numerous times, my brother and his wife worked at their embassy there for four years. I don't need to be there to know what the situation is, that is a feeble point.

Yet again - I would rather live under US hegemony than Chinese hegemony . . . but that doesn't stop me from displaying faults on both sides.

[SinglePot]

I went to China with an open mind. Lived and worked there for a year.

Came away shocked. I could write a book about it.

US is not perfect I grant you.

The lesser of two evils is a futile discussion.

I'd be a lot happier if it wasn't.

[NeverSure]

@ NeverSure

"China can't win an air and sea battle..."

I'm not sure this is correct.

I know you are confident about US military capability but what are the Chinese doing?

As I have said before, China will have a fairly good understanding of US capability, and they are not sitting around smoking opium and playing mahjong.

You're kidding, right? If you haven't kept up with the comparative technology which is regularly in the news, I'm not going to do it for you. I'll just remind you that the only "stealth" sub that China has is diesel-electric so that they can turn off the diesel engines and run it on batteries. The US has a bunch of them that are nuclear powered and can stay down and hidden for months at a time.

I'll also remind you that China recently made claims to all of the fishing rights in the S. China Sea until the US sailed a couple of Nimitz-class carrier groups in there and suddenly China wants to negotiate with SE Asian countries. But first the USS Nimitz visited several SE Asian allies including Thailand very recently to show solidarity.

Oh, did we forget the two huge stealth bombers that recently flew non-stop from Kentucky US to S. Korea and back, dropping practice bombs on S. Korea to prove they could do it? They made themselves visible just long enough to prove they were there.

China is decades behind.

[Credo]

I think the point is 'Never underestimate your opponent'. I don't know a lot about the Pacific Theater during WWII, but those pictures of Kamikaze pilots heading toward ships was pretty scary stuff and not a lot that could be done about it.

I don't think anybody thinks that China is militarily more powerful, but they are infinitely more scary. I don't know that a fight with them would be a fair fight.

Japan has every right to be concerned.

[SinglePot]

@NeverSure

Are you sure China's military technology is 'in the news'?

Behind closed doors most likely.

There are no Snowdens in China leaking anything.

[SinglePot]

PS. china may well be behind....at the moment.

[Naam]

I think the point is 'Never underestimate your opponent'. I don't know a lot about the Pacific Theater during WWII, but those pictures of Kamikaze pilots heading toward ships was pretty scary stuff and not a lot that could be done about it.

I don't think anybody thinks that China is militarily more powerful, but they are infinitely more scary. I don't know that a fight with them would be a fair fight.

Japan has every right to be concerned.

i don't think anyone with a wee bit of knowledge is not aware that China has nuclear weapons galore as well as the means to deliver them to any point of this planet and Japan has none

[Naam]

@ NeverSure

"China can't win an air and sea battle..."

I'm not sure this is correct.

I know you are confident about US military capability but what are the Chinese doing?

As I have said before, China will have a fairly good understanding of US capability, and they are not sitting around smoking opium and playing mahjong.

You're kidding, right? If you haven't kept up with the comparative technology which is regularly in the news, I'm not going to do it for you. I'll just remind you that the only "stealth" sub that China has is diesel-electric so that they can turn off the diesel engines and run it on batteries. The US has a bunch of them that are nuclear powered and can stay down and hidden for months at a time.

I'll also remind you that China recently made claims to all of the fishing rights in the S. China Sea until the US sailed a couple of Nimitz-class carrier groups in there and suddenly China wants to negotiate with SE Asian countries. But first the USS Nimitz visited several SE Asian allies including Thailand very recently to show solidarity.

Oh, did we forget the two huge stealth bombers that recently flew non-stop from Kentucky US to S. Korea and back, dropping practice bombs on S. Korea to prove they could do it? They made themselves visible just long enough to prove they were there.

China is decades behind.

China is indeed far behind in weapons technology. but that is irrelevant as China has unstoppable ICBMs (Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles) which can deliver multiple nuclear warheads to any given location.

and should anybody think to present the keyword "Patriot" i beg of you... please don't bore me to death

Edited July 25, 2013 by Naam

[SinglePot]

If the Chinese are as direct and as accurate as you Mr Naam....

Respect.

[kikoman]

Only a fool would underestimate China, again I will go back and revisit The Korean War, There are those like General MacArthur that knew China would not "dare" challenge the United States or United Nations due to their superior military, nuclear capability, and technology.

History proved It did not matter what the United States or the United Nation had, to make it a deterrent they must be willing to use that capability, MacArthur thought we would,The President and his advisers were not willing to start WWIII, so a 10th rate Guerrilla Army humiliated the US and UN on the battle field not having heavy weapon they could not carry off the main roads, that the UN forces were tied to, also not having control of the sky.

The US has not won a Guerrilla war since the Occupation of Mexico, were they won a war losing only over !000 men killed in action, yet they lost the guerrilla war during the year of occupation the US lost over 11,000 Killed in action and in the history of US casualties in the Mexican war KIA some list, 25,000 KIA.

Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan the US has not be able to win such a war. To fight China in Asia is not a great idea, as the United States military land forces are not prepared for the type of War. they will be forced to fight in Asia with the help of the Land forces of allies in Asia, Taiwan, Vietnam, India many more and the US fight the Air war and control of the sea.

Also the sea war has changed and Argentina was able to sink and damage a number ships of the proud navy of England, I only heard of one in the news but looking up navel loses, shows that Argentina held its own in the sea battles.

Again China is not to be under estimated, and the mighty military power of The US to be effective they must be willing to use it..

Cheers:

Edited July 25, 2013 by kikoman

[NeverSure]

We aren't talking about a nuclear war here, I hope. Everyone knows there are no winners in that one.

The issue at hand is that China has claimed all of the fishing rights to the S. China Sea, something the US may have already stopped, and the other issue is China claiming islands which belong to other Asian countries.

The logistics for China would be over the water and by air - two things they aren't prepared to win. I already listed a lot of what they don't have. There's a lot more they don't have such an an operational aircraft carrier. They did just build one but it's small and not ready for prime time.

[SinglePot]

ok NeverSure whatever you say.

BTW. china hasn't even started in the South China Sea.

Dialogue with ASEAN mediated by Thai chair is words.

Get real.

Edited July 25, 2013 by SinglePot

[Naam]

,snip>

The issue at hand is that China has claimed all of the fishing rights to the S. China Sea, something the US may have already stopped, and the other issue is China claiming islands which belong to other Asian countries.

there... there... NeverSure. please let's limit our discussions to facts. Bill O'Reilly of FAUX News and the National Enquirer should not be cited.

[jamhar]

Is the BBC neutral enough for everyone?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13748349

[kikoman]

How is the US going to respond to a Chinese attack on a landlocked Allie in a territorial dispute: say against India, Bhutan, Vietnam and others. If the US only have the capability in respond in the air and on the sea. What if they attack Taiwanese islands of Quemoy and Matsu just barely a few miles from the Chinese Mainland, in the range of land base Chinese aircraft and well within missile and artillery range from the mainland!

China will pick the proper target at the proper time and its choice will be where there is a limited possibility of testing US military might, China also knows the US weakness of its inability of absorbing many casualties before the American public start questioning its involvement in a war in Asia.. China has demonstrated its ability or willingness to absorb huge amount of causalities as it did in the Korean war.

Do not under estimate the Chinese, The US needs a plan "B".

Cheers:

[jamhar]

The US doesn't need a plan B.

Its really the problem of the countries in the So Asian Seas.

The US will help it allies when called.

Which is why Japan is considering a constitutional debate to strengthen its military.

Then the So Koreans will do similar.

The Philippians are already regretting the eviction of the US military

and is trying to find a face saving way of getting the US military back.

The south china sea is a vast area to cover. China doesn't have the navy to do it presently and will have to build up its naval capabilities.

So Korea and Japan can develop a navy to deter China. Esp with a bit of help from the US.

In the past, China could play a long game lasting decades and centuries.

That was before, with an uninformed and docile population.

I'd like to see what happens with the new educated, and online Chinese population.

and a government that has to manage the worlds second largest economy.

No one is in a position to make any serious moves,

Just enough to probe, assess and harass.

Regarding the near future, i see status quo maintaining.

Just my opinion.

[SinglePot]

Let's not forget the East China Sea and the Senkaku Islands.

Toyota sold virtually no cars in China one month a few months back when this dispute was hot.

Japanese restaurants in Beijing were boarded up for fear of reprisal.

[SinglePot]

The US doesn't need a plan B.

Its really the problem of the countries in the So Asian Seas.

The US will help it allies when called.

Which is why Japan is considering a constitutional debate to strengthen its military.

Then the So Koreans will do similar.

The Philippians are already regretting the eviction of the US military

and is trying to find a face saving way of getting the US military back.

The south china sea is a vast area to cover. China doesn't have the navy to do it presently and will have to build up its naval capabilities.

So Korea and Japan can develop a navy to deter China. Esp with a bit of help from the US.

In the past, China could play a long game lasting decades and centuries.

That was before, with an uninformed and docile population.

I'd like to see what happens with the new educated, and online Chinese population.

and a government that has to manage the worlds second largest economy.

No one is in a position to make any serious moves,

Just enough to probe, assess and harass.

Regarding the near future, i see status quo maintaining.

Just my opinion.

Status quo. Maybe. But whatever China gets involved with there is tension.

Outside their borders and now increasingly on the mainland......as Publicus and NeverSure have frequently illustrated.

A volatile unstable place emerging rapidly from decades of famine and economic stagnation.

You can take China out of the nation but you can't take the nation out of China.

Same old, new money.

[jamhar]

"Same old, new money"

Agreed SP,

PS, i didn't say they weren't going to try, as with Japan.

Sort of reminds me of old time thugs

They would make a threatening move

If their target caved in, then its easy money

If not, they can

1)carry out the threat,

2)make more threats,

3)forget it, or

4)carry out the threats later

China, made its move

Japan called.

Now it china's move.

PS, this is going to be a long EXPENSIVE game of cards

Edited July 26, 2013 by jamhar

[SinglePot]

Japan military 'needs marines and drones'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23433070

[boomerangutang]

Is the BBC neutral enough for everyone?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13748349

good map. As I've been saying for years, China is twice as far away from the disputed islands, as the others who (rightfully) claim ownership. I've also been saying, in articles and letters to newspapers, that the disputed islands would best be designated as 'International marine sanctuaries.' Yet, Asians don't think along those lines. Indeed, of 18 official Cultural Heritage Sites worldwide - which are jointly managed by neighboring countries, none are in Asia.

[SinglePot]

Hey boomerang.

Nice idea but China definitely isn't thinking along those lines.

This is the reality:

"This territory belongs to us. It has done for 2000 years." Said in a loud Chinese voice by a ...

Fish. To eat and sell.

Oil and gas.

Get it?

[jamhar]

China playing mind games again

China military urges vigilance over Japan's defense plan

http://news.yahoo.com/china-military-urges-vigilance-over-japans-defense-plan-070524048.html

I'm glad the Chinese general public is getting more educated. I'd hate to see the Chinese military taking over the PRC.

[SinglePot]

Japan military 'needs marines and drones'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23433070

Bump.

Read this Jamhar before the Reuters stuff throws things into confusion.

[Publicus]

The belligerent bullies in Beijing are containing themselves by the fact of their bellicose belligerence since PRChina nationalism took the great leap to a forceful rise after the heady daze of the 2008 Beijing Olympics.

The impetus for the CCP to abandon its always false claims to a "peaceful rise" to instead become the neighbor from hell throughout East Asia and SE Asia came from the CCP membership itself. After the Beijing Olympic Games the CCP membership became full of itself and imposed its will on CCP leaders in Beijing to become aggressive in its long dormant, absurd territorial claims. Those many claims have now become assertions of the CCP-PRC's "core interests".

It matters not how the belligerence originated, however. The significant aspect is that it now exists and shall continue to exist. Former Pres Hu Jintao was criticized by CCP members for being "docile," so he became mildly bellicose. New Chairman Xi Jinping is the Beijing CCP's answer to the forceful, restless, bold demands of the Party membership that the PRChina start to throw around its newfound muscle.

The result now is that the CCP-PRC is containing itself, as the governments of the Indo-Pacific strategic region respond by allying themselves to defend against the newly aggressive CCP, led by the United States and Prez Obama's "Pivot to the Pacific."

Diplomacy by Other Means

Japan Alarmed By China’s Air and Naval Surveillance

http://thediplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2013/07/26/japan-alarmed-at-chinese-air-and-naval-surveillance/

Flashpoints: Diplomacy by Other Means

US is Encircling China with Fighter Jets and Stealth Bombers

http://thediplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2013/07/30/us-is-encircling-china-with-fighter-jets-and-stealth-bombers/

Flashpoints: Diplomacy by Other Means

China’s Folly of Self-Containment

http://thediplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2013/07/29/chinas-folly-of-self-containment/

[SinglePot]

China, Japan and the bigger picture.

2 interesting articles:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-23499239

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-23509233

[antfish]

The belligerent bullies in Beijing are containing themselves by the fact of their bellicose belligerence since PRChina nationalism took the great leap to a forceful rise after the heady daze of the 2008 Beijing Olympics.

...

Flashpoints: Diplomacy by Other Means

US is Encircling China with Fighter Jets and Stealth Bombers

http://thediplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2013/07/30/us-is-encircling-china-with-fighter-jets-and-stealth-bombers/

Cannot see how the linked article proves that it are the "boys in Beijing" who are the belligerent bullies.

[Publicus]

As the article immediately below indicates, Beijing is getting tougher on Pyongyang over its nuclear weapons, increased production of missiles, and its bellicose language towards Japan.

The Japanese newspaper ASAHI SHIMBUN reports that Beijing has stopped tanker shipments of oil to Pyongyang, although delivery of oil through a pipeline continues uninterrupted - still, the effect is to reduce oil entering N Korea from the PRC. The "Big Four" banks of the PRC, all state owned and operated, have ceased transfers of money into N Korea from the PRC. New customs restrictions along the heavily trafficked PRC-N Korean border have been initiated by Beijing, thus slowing and stalling the daily trade and commercial activity of many N Koreans who until now have taken for granted the ease with which they had crossed the border to do business.

The link below provides much more about how Beijing has ended its "special relationship" with Pyongyang. Beijing has come to view the Pyongyang regime as just another bunch in just another strange government it has to deal with. This brings both relief and apprehension in Japan, as the link points out.

Some Japanese are pleased Pyongyang has lost its special status in Beijing in the belief Pyongyang will have to be more cautious towards Japan and the United States. Other Japanese, perhaps rightly so, are concerned that a Pyongyang without diplomatic restraints by Beijing would become even more dangerous than it already is.

Japan a few weeks ago scrambled jets to monitor N Korean air force jets which had taken to the skies because of Japan's new deployment of a US made Aegis anti-missile destroyer in the Sea of Japan which separates the North from Japan.

How China Makes Its North Korean Policy

http://thediplomat.com/china-power/how-china-makes-north-korean-policy/

PM Shinzo Abe just won control of the upper House of the Japanese Diet, giving he and his party complete control over the government. Abe now is assured of a much longer tenure as prime minister than the typical one year or so suffered by a succession of weak prime ministers. Longer term planning is now possible. Further, Abe is strong on foreign policy, having visited 16 countries since winning election last December.

INSIGHT: Abe woos 3 ASEAN countries in attempt to box in China

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/asia/china/AJ201307290081

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe speaks at an academic conference in Singapore, the second stop on a three-day swing that included Malaysia and the Philippines, on July 26. (Teruo Kashiyama)

So with his total election mandate, PM Shinzo Abe has called for a summit between himself and Xi Jingping. The idea is proving had to swallow in Beijing, which has an agenda of belligerence and aggression. The inertia of Beijing's militant agenda makes it unlikely a summit would occur any time soon, if at all. Beijing anyway sees Washington behind Abe's call for a summit, and Beijing negotiates publically only after informal talks have resulted to absolute agreement with Beijing's positions. So a summit occurring does not appear promising. PM Abe has become too strong at home in Japan and internationally, in the immediate region especially.

Abe’s advisor says Japan, China could hold summit soon

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/asia/china/AJ201307290013

Edited July 31, 2013 by Publicus

[SinglePot]

China media say no summit with Abe.

"State media dismiss prospects of a China-Japan summit and cast suspicion on the Philippines' plan to reopen a former US military base.

Chinese media echo the foreign ministry in pouring cold water on Japanese media reports that Japanese and Chinese leaders will hold a summit soon following calls by Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe for high-level bilateral talks to resolve issues."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-23499239

[Publicus]

The belligerent bullies in Beijing are containing themselves by the fact of their bellicose belligerence since PRChina nationalism took the great leap to a forceful rise after the heady daze of the 2008 Beijing Olympics.

...

Flashpoints: Diplomacy by Other Means

US is Encircling China with Fighter Jets and Stealth Bombers

http://thediplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2013/07/30/us-is-encircling-china-with-fighter-jets-and-stealth-bombers/

Cannot see how the linked article proves that it are the "boys in Beijing" who are the belligerent bullies.

Perhaps connecting the above cited news article to this one could be helpful. Both are in the same post to begin with anyway.

Flashpoints: Diplomacy by Other Means

China’s Folly of Self-Containment

http://thediplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2013/07/29/chinas-folly-of-self-containment/

Edited July 31, 2013 by Publicus