Japan Says It Faces Increasing Threats from China, North Korea

[SinglePot]

"Viewpoints: How serious are China-Japan tensions?"

A good overview of the situation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21290349

[F430murci]

Haha, dumb <deleted> . . .

-----

PYONGYANG, North Korea -- Missiles paraded through the streets of Pyongyang in recent displays of North Korean military might -- said to be capable of hitting targets throughout Asia and even in the U.S. -- are incapable of flight and are almost certainly nothing more than fakes, according to U.S. government experts and independent analysts.

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/15/20010707-a-big-hoax-experts-say-north-korea-showing-off-missiles-that-cant-fly?lite

[Publicus]

Beijing is determined to change the status quo in the western Pacific Ocean area which includes East Asia.

Toward this end, the CCP-PRC has made absurd territorial claims over islands and regional seas containing undersea mineral deposits but which are, according to the UN International Law of the Sea, within the Exclusive Economic Zone of other countries, such as the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Japan, Taiwan among others.

Beijing knows, as does everyone else, that before it can become a global power, the CCP-PRC must first become a regional power. The United States is thus drawn into the regional conflict. The regional and the global factors merge into one single factor, i.e., the U.S.'s "Pivot to the Pacific" announced two years ago.

The "pivot" has since been renamed a "rebalance" of U.S. interests and attention to the Indo-Pacific strategic region. This has reassured the region as Beijing continues to press its false territorial claims against the many smaller states of the region.

Maritime Insecurity in East Asia

http://www.isn.ethz.ch/Digital-Library/Articles/Special-Feature/Detail/?lng=en&id=161394&tabid=1454209121&contextid774=161394&contextid775=161393

The biggest disappointment of all is the failure of China, ASEAN and Japan to come to a workable arrangement among themselves.

Expanding trade has not brought a lowering of tensions.

Even as China-Japan trade reached a new high in 2011, public hostility between them grew more pronounced over the Senkaku/Diaoyu dispute.

[Publicus]

The CCP-PRC continues to be unrelenting and demanding in its territorial assertions against Japan over islands the Japanese government owns and controls.

Japan however bites back, as the Boyz in Beijing have come to learn.

Still, some in the PLA want a quick and decisive military action to take possession of the Senkaku Islands, as do a number of hard liners in the CCP.

The response have been joint Japan-U.S. military exercises specifically to repossess occupied islands.

Japan means to keep a close eye on the Senkakus using the Global Hawk aerial surveillance system.

Japan Plans to Deploy Global Hawk to East China Sea

JAPAN is considering introducing American unmanned aircraft to boost surveillance of its territorial waters near islands in the East China Sea at the centre of a bitter dispute with Beijing, Kyodo News says.

The Japanese defence ministry hopes to introduce the unmanned Global Hawk aircraft by 2015 “in a bid to counter China’s growing assertiveness at sea, especially when it comes to the Senkaku Islands”, the news agency said, citing unnamed government officials.

Beijing has been sending maritime patrol vessels into waters around the Japanese-controlled islands, which China claims as Diaoyu, since Tokyo nationalised the chain in September.

- See more at: http://www.uasvision.com/2013/01/03/japan-plans-to-deploy-global-hawk-to-east-china-sea/#sthash.ZSyRwR5E.dpuf

Edited August 26, 2013 by Publicus

[ABCer]

Beijing isn't ever going to stop its determination to become the dominant regional power in East Asia.

Beijing will cause or create a shooting incident sooner or later, people will die. Then things will only get worse.

No matter what Beijing tries or does, however, it looses.

The Promise and Peril of China’s New Coast Guard

http://thediplomat.com/2013/08/07/the-promise-and-peril-of-chinas-new-coast-guard/

Four ships from the newly established China Coast Guard (CCG) were deployed in the East China Sea near the disputed Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands on July 24, as reported by Kyodo News and Xinhua.

The ships have also been sighted in the area around Mischief Reef according to a confidential Philippine government report.

While Chinese government vessels have consistently entered both seas over the past year, this marked the first time ships did so under the restructured State Oceanic Administration (SOA).

Dear Publicus. I wish with all my heart that your pronouncements go strait into God's ears. Be assured, I am not on PRC side. But I have strongest possible doubts that all the glorious photographs on joint exercises, easy successful maneuvers and 're-takings' are nothing more than a bravado PR. If you look to history you will see many examples of West defeats from the Commies from results of WWII till the end of Cold War era.

Comm USSR was never defeated by the West militarily. Their collapse was purely economic, from within.

Unfortunately this is not happening in the case of PRC. Military advantage is too often on the side of a Totalitarian regime compared with Democracy. If you are so sure and I am just a 'doom & gloom' pessimist - why Japan is so worried? I'm afraid they have good reasons to be.

I agree with you in one thing only - "The things will only get worse". Do we put the same meaning in these words? I wouldn't want to live to see this.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Scott

[NeverSure]

Beijing isn't ever going to stop its determination to become the dominant regional power in East Asia.

Beijing will cause or create a shooting incident sooner or later, people will die. Then things will only get worse.

No matter what Beijing tries or does, however, it looses.

The Promise and Peril of China’s New Coast Guard

http://thediplomat.com/2013/08/07/the-promise-and-peril-of-chinas-new-coast-guard/

Four ships from the newly established China Coast Guard (CCG) were deployed in the East China Sea near the disputed Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands on July 24, as reported by Kyodo News and Xinhua.

The ships have also been sighted in the area around Mischief Reef according to a confidential Philippine government report.

While Chinese government vessels have consistently entered both seas over the past year, this marked the first time ships did so under the restructured State Oceanic Administration (SOA).

Dear Publicus. I wish with all my heart that your pronouncements go strait into God's ears. Be assured, I am not on PRC side.

But I have strongest possible doubts that all the glorious photographs on joint exercises, easy successful maneuvers and 're-takings' are nothing more than a bravado PR.

If you look to history you will see many examples of West defeats from the Commies from results of WWII till the end of Cold War era.

Comm USSR was never defeated by the West militarily. Their collapse was purely economic, from within.

Unfortunately this is not happening in the case of PRC. Military advantage is too often on the side of a Totalitarian regime compared with Democracy.

If you are so sure and I am just a 'doom & gloom' pessimist - why Japan is so worried? I'm afraid they have good reasons to be.

I agree with you in one thing only - "The things will only get worse". Do we put the same meaning in these words? I wouldn't want to live to see this.

I think you're missing some things. Please name me a communist government that has both prospered and lasted - both, not just one.

The USSR never had a real war with the West. It never had the money to invest in a good military and it still doesn't, as Russia. China and Russia are using 60's technology. China is striving to catch up but it has a long way to go.

If Japan is being given access to Global Hawks which can fly so high that they can't be reached by missiles even if they could be seen because they are stealth, that alone could sink anything China could put in the water. As an aside, I wonder if the US would give Japan control of those drones, or would control them from the US as they do drones in the Middle East.

[ABCer]

Beijing isn't ever going to stop its determination to become the dominant regional power in East Asia.

Beijing will cause or create a shooting incident sooner or later, people will die. Then things will only get worse.

No matter what Beijing tries or does, however, it looses.

The Promise and Peril of China’s New Coast Guard

http://thediplomat.com/2013/08/07/the-promise-and-peril-of-chinas-new-coast-guard/

Four ships from the newly established China Coast Guard (CCG) were deployed in the East China Sea near the disputed Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands on July 24, as reported by Kyodo News and Xinhua.

The ships have also been sighted in the area around Mischief Reef according to a confidential Philippine government report.

While Chinese government vessels have consistently entered both seas over the past year, this marked the first time ships did so under the restructured State Oceanic Administration (SOA).

Dear Publicus. I wish with all my heart that your pronouncements go strait into God's ears. Be assured, I am not on PRC side.

But I have strongest possible doubts that all the glorious photographs on joint exercises, easy successful maneuvers and 're-takings' are nothing more than a bravado PR.

If you look to history you will see many examples of West defeats from the Commies from results of WWII till the end of Cold War era.

Comm USSR was never defeated by the West militarily. Their collapse was purely economic, from within.

Unfortunately this is not happening in the case of PRC. Military advantage is too often on the side of a Totalitarian regime compared with Democracy.

If you are so sure and I am just a 'doom & gloom' pessimist - why Japan is so worried? I'm afraid they have good reasons to be.

I agree with you in one thing only - "The things will only get worse". Do we put the same meaning in these words? I wouldn't want to live to see this.

I think you're missing some things. Please name me a communist government that has both prospered and lasted - both, not just one.

The USSR never had a real war with the West. It never had the money to invest in a good military and it still doesn't, as Russia. China and Russia are using 60's technology. China is striving to catch up but it has a long way to go.

If Japan is being given access to Global Hawks which can fly so high that they can't be reached by missiles even if they could be seen because they are stealth, that alone could sink anything China could put in the water. As an aside, I wonder if the US would give Japan control of those drones, or would control them from the US as they do drones in the Middle East.

NeverSure, unlike many others I genuinely admit to having serious doubts. I emphasize once again, there are no quarrel between my position and Publicus' or your's. We are on one side. Just the attitudes are worrying me.

WWII - look at the map of Europe before and after. Hardly a victory for the West. Asia - China, Korea, Vietnam, Mongolia, Afghanistan - hardly a victory for the West. Iran, Iraq - a Pyrrhic victory for the West...

To say that China and Russia are using 60's technology today - is the very attitude I am warning against. It is misleading and would potentially cost much loss of face and lives to the West. Gross inexcusable miscalculation!

Drones, missiles, subs, carriers are all very good for the battles but to win the war one needs soldiers. Which ones are better? I don't know. But I know which ones are going to die without looking back and are much more numerous.

China is no Korea, no Vietnam, no Afghanistan, no Iraq and no Iran. Drum beating and singing songs going into battle is just noise. West needs real advantages or better yet - a non-military solution.

Edited August 27, 2013 by ABCer

[SinglePot]

Non military solution?

Educate the boys from Beijing about International Maritime Law?

They won't listen.

Furious obstinacy that comes from a huge inferiority complex that has built over centuries.

Master race? No. A pathetic and limited nation.

Just big.

[LawrenceChee]

Non military solution?

Educate the boys from Beijing about International Maritime Law?

They won't listen.

Furious obstinacy that comes from a huge inferiority complex that has built over centuries.

Master race? No. A pathetic and limited nation.

Just big.

Such a bigot view ...the world could do with less of this antagonist tone and we will have less confrontation with any nations ...maybe your tone stems from an inferiority complex ?

If you are truly Chinese then u will understand the sync inside them and none of them want a war ...they much prefer to make your money and make u whine

[LawrenceChee]

Of course if you have not already figure out both sides of Japan and China just need to make some political noise and stand on issues then you are also rather smartly left out of the picture ...

[ttthailand]

The shoe is on the other foot now.... Karma.... Remember 1940s

[boomerangutang]

Of course if you have not already figure out both sides of Japan and China just need to make some political noise and stand on issues then you are also rather smartly left out of the picture ...

Hopefully that's all it will be; "making political noise and standing on issues...."

Yet, as time rolls on, populations (and their needs) increase - it only takes a little spark to inflame things to catastrophic levels. Look at the 'Gulf of Tonkin incident' which we now know was contrived/faked by the US navy - which led to an ugly 10 year war. Antagonism preceded it for several years.

Probably the only way that China will back off on its outlandish territorial imperatives, is if it implodes politically, and even if it did, it's still doubtful it would ease off its demands. Similarly, but probably less fanatical, the Japanese and Philippine governments won't ease off their insistence on keeping their islands. And neither Japan nor the Philippines are facing a 'sea change' in their governing system, as China is.

[LawrenceChee]

The majority of the Chinese are respectful of the Japanese and how their products are exceeding superior in quality and build

I hope some of you have been to Nagasaki or Fukuoka which have ferry links to Chinese and Korean cities.

Even the majority of the cruise lines such as Royal Caribbean , Costa and Princess sail to these cities which are very very popular with the Chinese.

When you are them disembarking, you will see tourists in malls filled with Chinese translator and Chinese directional signs ...speak to some of them as I was involved in such a project to help the Kyushu district governors

...they love the Chinese as they are respectful of the cultural, they buy Japanese goods and the high end stuff and contribute to the economy, seen $2000 USD tiger brand / hitachi rice cookers before ? The Chinese snapped these up and the Japanese cooking knives and food items

And if you speak to the Chinese guests, they have nothing but praise for their gracious hosts, amazing toilets and the shopping quality unseen in China...if you ask them if they hate the Japanese ...they would laugh so loud and say its for the politicians to play these games ...the Lao Bai Sin just want a stable job and children to grow up in the best environment

Yes there are a few bunch of fanatics who boycott Japanese goods and try to flame the emotions but they are the very small minority as in many of the countries have them even in Asia region Thailand yellow vs red shirts, Vietnamese against Chinese, Philippines against Taiwan ...most normal folks are not even involved or want to be

[Credo]

Lawrence, unfortunately, these people are not the ones who make policy or wage war.

[LawrenceChee]

Lawrence, unfortunately, these people are not the ones who make policy or wage war.

Agree but the new man for the next 10 years Mr Xi is very much the weibo man ( china's twitter) and he gauges the groundswell before making decisions

The ongoing trial with Bo Xilai is a good behind the door gauge of a man who is more sensitive to the ground having inherited a more vocal china than his predecessor and trying to balance the delicate powers of the old and the demands of the younger generations for openness and transparency

He has also visited Japan as vice premier and his wife is said to have a very good impression of the japanese cities she visited

How crucial are these visits which forms one's first impression ?

Kyoto was taken off the nuclear strike lost on WWII due to these kind of impressions ...

[Publicus]

Beijing isn't ever going to stop its determination to become the dominant regional power in East Asia.

Beijing will cause or create a shooting incident sooner or later, people will die. Then things will only get worse.

No matter what Beijing tries or does, however, it looses.

The Promise and Peril of China’s New Coast Guard

http://thediplomat.com/2013/08/07/the-promise-and-peril-of-chinas-new-coast-guard/

Four ships from the newly established China Coast Guard (CCG) were deployed in the East China Sea near the disputed Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands on July 24, as reported by Kyodo News and Xinhua.

The ships have also been sighted in the area around Mischief Reef according to a confidential Philippine government report.

While Chinese government vessels have consistently entered both seas over the past year, this marked the first time ships did so under the restructured State Oceanic Administration (SOA).

Dear Publicus. I wish with all my heart that your pronouncements go strait into God's ears. Be assured, I am not on PRC side. But I have strongest possible doubts that all the glorious photographs on joint exercises, easy successful maneuvers and 're-takings' are nothing more than a bravado PR. If you look to history you will see many examples of West defeats from the Commies from results of WWII till the end of Cold War era.

Comm USSR was never defeated by the West militarily. Their collapse was purely economic, from within.

Unfortunately this is not happening in the case of PRC. Military advantage is too often on the side of a Totalitarian regime compared with Democracy. If you are so sure and I am just a 'doom & gloom' pessimist - why Japan is so worried? I'm afraid they have good reasons to be.

I agree with you in one thing only - "The things will only get worse". Do we put the same meaning in these words? I wouldn't want to live to see this.

Yes, you and I share common concerns about the CCP-PRC.

True the former USSR was never defeated by the West militarily but the opposite is true, i.e., the West was never defeated militarily by the USSR. The two never directly engaged militarily. The closest they came was of course during the Cuban Missile Crisis of October 1962 in which each side negotiated and came to a compromise solution that precluded World War III. That is, as crazy as the Russians are - whether they are the USSR or the present Russian Federation - they are not lunatics.

The CCP are lunatics. The Chinese always have seen themselves as the center of the universe, the Middle Kingdom. This continues to be the case. The fenqing are the absolute worst, the creation from birth of the CCP to be America haters and to detest Japan too. The CCP is extremely dangerous and will stop at nothing.

However, the CCP-PRC has hit an economic great wall. The CCP's economy and financial system are on the verge of a huge and devastating crash. There is an enormous property bubble and such things never end well - the CCP and its command economy notwithstanding. There is a severe banking and credit bubble which is going to burst to destroy everyone's personal savings. Local government debt is huge and wildly out of control with local governments unable to collect payments on their debt because of tight monetary and financial conditions. There's much more, all of which clearly indicates a major economic and financial crash of the CCP-PRC economy and social order and which threatens the survival of the CCP itself.

As Neversure points out above, no system of dictatorship and a command economy ever has been able to succeed. The CCP-PRC is the present instance and further example of this reality. So the CCP are fools and idiots. However, they are lunatics too who will stop at nothing.

[Publicus]

Lawrence, unfortunately, these people are not the ones who make policy or wage war.

Agree but the new man for the next 10 years Mr Xi is very much the weibo man ( china's twitter) and he gauges the groundswell before making decisions

The ongoing trial with Bo Xilai is a good behind the door gauge of a man who is more sensitive to the ground having inherited a more vocal china than his predecessor and trying to balance the delicate powers of the old and the demands of the younger generations for openness and transparency

He has also visited Japan as vice premier and his wife is said to have a very good impression of the japanese cities she visited

How crucial are these visits which forms one's first impression ?

Kyoto was taken off the nuclear strike lost on WWII due to these kind of impressions ...

The new president Xi Jingping is working to tighten the CCP's grip on power and to concentrate more power in the CCP. Xi and his focus on traditional Marxist-Leninist-Maoist ideology is in direct conflict against prime minister Li Keqiang who is the only actual reformer on the seven member Standing Committee that rules the CCP-PRC on a daily basis. Xi is a militant who is closely connected to the military and to the reactionaries of the CCP. Xi offers no hope of change in the CCP-PRC. To think or believe Xi is on the side of change and reform is an illusion, a delusion, as the article below presents. Xi's present honeymoon period of hope and promise is in fact a superficial false hope and optimism.

Bo Xilai is on trial because he was revealed to be plotting a coup to take control of the government in 2014. Bo and the head of internal security, Zhou Yong Kang were the central figures in the coup plot to return the CCP-PRC to its Maoist ways. The plot was discovered early last year when Bo's dismissed police chief, Wang Lijun, fearing for his life, unsuccessfully sought asylum at the U.S. Consulate Offices in Chengdu, during which time he revealed the entire plot to the U.S. Consulate staff during questioning and discussion. Wang is now in prison and just testified over the weekend at the Bo is already guilty trial - in the CCP-PRC the verdict precedes the trial.

Japan has much to be concerned about as do other countries of the Indo-Pacific strategic region as Beijing asserts unjustified territorial claims against its neighbor countries. Japan is an object of hate in the CCP-PRC because the CCP needs nationalists sentiments to help preserve itself in power and because there remains a strong hostility against the World War II Japanese among the PRChinese population. You yourself have posted of the many grievances the CCP aggravates among the sheeple of the PRChina. You yourself have posted much of the backward looking attitude of the PRC sheeple who want revenge and vengeance against Japan, of a population of sheeple who are indoctrinated that there are many old scores for the PRChinese to settle from the previous century of shame the Chinese are certain they have suffered as innocent victims of foreign devil barbarians.

Consequently, the CCP-PRC has isolated itself in the entire region as the neighbor from hell.

Economic Liberalization and Political Control May Clash in China

Any hopes of political reform, however, have faded as Party leader Xi Jinping has stepped up Maoist rhetoric and symbolism.

Chinese premier Li Keqiang has called for less political control in the economy and said that the government should delegate power to maintain growth.

Unlike Li who is seeking to loosen the reigns, Xi is attempting to ramp up the power of the state and its ideological control. As a princeling, the child of the founding generation of the Party, in particular, he is reluctant to change the old system, according to a report by Hong Kong’s Open Magazine in early June. Some commentators are convinced that the two goals will eventually come into conflict.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/223429-economic-liberalization-and-political-control-may-clash-in-china/

[Publicus]

Beijing isn't ever going to stop its determination to become the dominant regional power in East Asia.

Beijing will cause or create a shooting incident sooner or later, people will die. Then things will only get worse.

No matter what Beijing tries or does, however, it looses.

The Promise and Peril of China’s New Coast Guard

http://thediplomat.com/2013/08/07/the-promise-and-peril-of-chinas-new-coast-guard/

Four ships from the newly established China Coast Guard (CCG) were deployed in the East China Sea near the disputed Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands on July 24, as reported by Kyodo News and Xinhua.

The ships have also been sighted in the area around Mischief Reef according to a confidential Philippine government report.

While Chinese government vessels have consistently entered both seas over the past year, this marked the first time ships did so under the restructured State Oceanic Administration (SOA).

Dear Publicus. I wish with all my heart that your pronouncements go strait into God's ears. Be assured, I am not on PRC side.

But I have strongest possible doubts that all the glorious photographs on joint exercises, easy successful maneuvers and 're-takings' are nothing more than a bravado PR.

If you look to history you will see many examples of West defeats from the Commies from results of WWII till the end of Cold War era.

Comm USSR was never defeated by the West militarily. Their collapse was purely economic, from within.

Unfortunately this is not happening in the case of PRC. Military advantage is too often on the side of a Totalitarian regime compared with Democracy.

If you are so sure and I am just a 'doom & gloom' pessimist - why Japan is so worried? I'm afraid they have good reasons to be.

I agree with you in one thing only - "The things will only get worse". Do we put the same meaning in these words? I wouldn't want to live to see this.

I think you're missing some things. Please name me a communist government that has both prospered and lasted - both, not just one.

The USSR never had a real war with the West. It never had the money to invest in a good military and it still doesn't, as Russia. China and Russia are using 60's technology. China is striving to catch up but it has a long way to go.

If Japan is being given access to Global Hawks which can fly so high that they can't be reached by missiles even if they could be seen because they are stealth, that alone could sink anything China could put in the water. As an aside, I wonder if the US would give Japan control of those drones, or would control them from the US as they do drones in the Middle East.

I would again caution against making the classic mistake, error, of underestimating one's enemy.

Beijing is focused on disabling U.S. satellites in space, thus making the United States military blind in any conflict, large or small. Beijing is focused on cyberwarfare to disable all power and communications grids in the United States and globally, depending on the conflict situation. Beijing is focused on land to sea missile technology to neutralize or to defeat the U.S. navy at sea without the customary naval shows of force or actual sea battles involving fleets of warships and naval aircraft.

The CCP are lunatics with the grand plans and designs of maniacs such as Hitler, focusing on new technologies of warfare, new strategies, thorough preparations to initiate blitzkrieg war. In the present, a technological blitzkrieg consists of a matter of days, not weeks or months.

Is the United States prepared to defend against space warfare and against cyberattacks against the homeland? No, it is not.

Is Beijing prepared to implement its plan in full? No, it is not. The first two elements are still being further developed. Beijing is only now beginning to focus on the naval aspect.

When Beijing is ready, which will require another decade, it will make its move against the Senkaku Islands and Japan - to include Japan's treaty ally, the United States.

Beijing isn't likely to make any move against the Senkaku Islands while Shinzo Abe is prime minister because Abe will fight back, which Beijing doesn't yet want. However, events may carry Beijing forward in its planning to act in the present. Miscalculation is one factor that could be in play. A sudden ascendancy of the military's point of view of a short, decisive military action - kill the chicken to scare the monkey - may occur to precipitate military action.

Lunatics often are calculating, measured, systematic, deceptive. They can be rational - crazy rational. Or they can have their dangerous moments of sheer lunacy.

[LawrenceChee]

Publicus

Whew on the gods that you are not in charge of foreign affairs and can only post your comments here

They are on- minded, offensive and likely to start a fight at your local bar with your type of views ...

I guess it stems from an internal culture of hate ?

My offer still stands ...with your new arguments extend it to 10 years (yawn) that china will attack Japan and you get yourself a nice meal with wine at any 5 star hotel u like

In the meantime it would be more helpful thinking if you were governing 1.3 billion how would you do it different from this "dictatorship" model you keep quoting ...Medicare works ? 2 Party State voting works better ..universal insurance ...demonstrations on streets ?

The difference perhaps between your opinion and mine is I have been on the ground and I have been talking regularly with the govt folks and I can tell you they are more interested in making a buck off Japan than fighting them.

These are political noise much like any leaders have to make to look relevant but fight a war ???? You have to read history to know the Chinese are not very keen on them unless it makes $$$

[Publicus]

Publicus

Whew on the gods that you are not in charge of foreign affairs and can only post your comments here

They are on- minded, offensive and likely to start a fight at your local bar with your type of views ...

I guess it stems from an internal culture of hate ?

My offer still stands ...with your new arguments extend it to 10 years (yawn) that china will attack Japan and you get yourself a nice meal with wine at any 5 star hotel u like

In the meantime it would be more helpful thinking if you were governing 1.3 billion how would you do it different from this "dictatorship" model you keep quoting ...Medicare works ? 2 Party State voting works better ..universal insurance ...demonstrations on streets ?

The difference perhaps between your opinion and mine is I have been on the ground and I have been talking regularly with the govt folks and I can tell you they are more interested in making a buck off Japan than fighting them.

These are political noise much like any leaders have to make to look relevant but fight a war ???? You have to read history to know the Chinese are not very keen on them unless it makes $$$

You're not the only one on the ground interacting with the PRChinese.

No PRChinese has a positive or favorable thing to say to me about Japan. They all speak in derogatory terms.

When I give lectures to senior high school students and to university learners they always ask about Japan. They have Japan on the brain but it's not favorably. (I include in my answer, which briefly discusses the awful history between Japan and China, that Japan and the U.S. are treaty allies, an answer they clearly don't like.)

Some, such as the fenqing, speak in aggressive and flaming kamikaze-like terms, meaning they happily will die if it means finally annihilating Japan..

Yes, there's money to be made in the relationship, and plenty of money is being made - less, however, since the anti-Japanese riots of summer 2012 throughout the CCP-PRC. Japanese companies are pulling out of the CCP-PRC in favor of Asean countries where many already are well invested in a friendly and hospitable environment.

The only thing preventing Beijing from seizing the Senkaku Islands from Japan by military force is the knowledge that Prime Minister Shinzo Abe will immediately engage in a forceful military response to repossess the islands. Unlike Asean, Japan bites back. And Beijing knows this.

The United States meanwhile has made clear it supports its treaty ally Japan in seeking a peaceful resolution to the islands dispute.

Anti-Japan protests erupt in China amid island dispute

Furious anti-Japan protests erupted in Chinese cities Sunday after a Japanese group landed on an island that both countries say is theirs.

Protesters toppled Japanese-made cars, burned Japanese flags, and shouted that the island is Chinese territory and that Japan should get out, according to the state-run China Daily newspaper.

The demonstrations against Japan have turned violent in some places.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/19/world/asia/japan-china-island-dispute/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19632047

China protests: Fears rise over Japan-China trade ties

There are fears over the economic impact of the dispute between China and Japan if the row over islands in the East China Sea is not resolved soon.

Several major Japanese companies have suspended operations in China after attacks on shops and car dealerships.

The Japanese government has asked Beijing to do more to protect Japanese businesses.

Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary Osamu Fujimura said Tokyo had asked Beijing via diplomatic channels to take necessary steps to protect Japanese nationals and prevent further damage to Japanese companies in China.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19632047

[LawrenceChee]

I am not sure where you have given these lectures but the tone of your postings suggest a strong minded view which may mean your questions are asked in a manner that could channel the feedback you crave

I would suggest if you have the opportunity to give talks in the top Chinese universities such as Tsinghua Peking or Fudan and have a word with the students as most of these guys will eventually form the central party folks deemed evil or dictators by your definition. All past leaders are from these universities and moderates including Li Keqiang

Are they fervent about their country ...of course why would they not be ? If you pop to any student bodies around the world and ask the same questions , rightly people are proud of their own country and interests and at that age thy are more inclined to say yes/ no rather than take a more worldly view on things

It is however interesting to note that those with a more worldly view of things for some of the students, the moderates are also keen to see where policy making will eventually affect their futures and their next generation

I am counting on them to make the next political powers and hopefully make a better China for them and the people

[Scott]

Let's stay on the topic of the thread.

[chuckd]

Publicus

Whew on the gods that you are not in charge of foreign affairs and can only post your comments here

They are on- minded, offensive and likely to start a fight at your local bar with your type of views ...

I guess it stems from an internal culture of hate ?

My offer still stands ...with your new arguments extend it to 10 years (yawn) that china will attack Japan and you get yourself a nice meal with wine at any 5 star hotel u like

In the meantime it would be more helpful thinking if you were governing 1.3 billion how would you do it different from this "dictatorship" model you keep quoting ...Medicare works ? 2 Party State voting works better ..universal insurance ...demonstrations on streets ?

The difference perhaps between your opinion and mine is I have been on the ground and I have been talking regularly with the govt folks and I can tell you they are more interested in making a buck off Japan than fighting them.

These are political noise much like any leaders have to make to look relevant but fight a war ???? You have to read history to know the Chinese are not very keen on them unless it makes $$$

You're not the only one on the ground interacting with the PRChinese.

No PRChinese has a positive or favorable thing to say to me about Japan. They all speak in derogatory terms.

When I give lectures to senior high school students and to university learners they always ask about Japan. They have Japan on the brain but it's not favorably. (I include in my answer, which briefly discusses the awful history between Japan and China, that Japan and the U.S. are treaty allies, an answer they clearly don't like.)

Some, such as the fenqing, speak in aggressive and flaming kamikaze-like terms, meaning they happily will die if it means finally annihilating Japan..

Yes, there's money to be made in the relationship, and plenty of money is being made - less, however, since the anti-Japanese riots of summer 2012 throughout the CCP-PRC. Japanese companies are pulling out of the CCP-PRC in favor of Asean countries where many already are well invested in a friendly and hospitable environment.

The only thing preventing Beijing from seizing the Senkaku Islands from Japan by military force is the knowledge that Prime Minister Shinzo Abe will immediately engage in a forceful military response to repossess the islands. Unlike Asean, Japan bites back. And Beijing knows this.

The United States meanwhile has made clear it supports its treaty ally Japan in seeking a peaceful resolution to the islands dispute.

Anti-Japan protests erupt in China amid island dispute

Furious anti-Japan protests erupted in Chinese cities Sunday after a Japanese group landed on an island that both countries say is theirs.

Protesters toppled Japanese-made cars, burned Japanese flags, and shouted that the island is Chinese territory and that Japan should get out, according to the state-run China Daily newspaper.

The demonstrations against Japan have turned violent in some places.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/19/world/asia/japan-china-island-dispute/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19632047

China protests: Fears rise over Japan-China trade ties

There are fears over the economic impact of the dispute between China and Japan if the row over islands in the East China Sea is not resolved soon.

Several major Japanese companies have suspended operations in China after attacks on shops and car dealerships.

The Japanese government has asked Beijing to do more to protect Japanese businesses.

Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary Osamu Fujimura said Tokyo had asked Beijing via diplomatic channels to take necessary steps to protect Japanese nationals and prevent further damage to Japanese companies in China.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19632047

Your riot links are one year old. Are they still rioting?

[Publicus]

@chuckd

Yes, one can plainly see the links are of the riots I'd mentioned specifically in my text as having occurred during the summer of 2012.

The point is the hate in the PRChina of the Japanese and Japan. Many Japanese businesses were trashed, Chinese in Japanese made cars were stopped and their cars destroyed, Japanese nationals were attacked on the sidewalks by gangs of PRChinese and in the streets and much more.

Anyone who tries to play this down is, well, trying to play this down falsely to misrepresent the reality of the strongly negative situation in the CCP-PRC concerning Japan and the Japanese.

Japanese goods continue to sell in the CCP-PRC but Japanese companies are moving out to more hospitable locales, such as the Asean countries.

Beijing is creating and increasing tensions between the CCP-PRC and Japan for no valid reason. Beijing claims the Senkaku Islands because it is being belligerent and aggressive towards all its neighbors in the region. Japan stands up firmly against that.

The CCP-PRC, the neighbor from hell.

[Publicus]

I am not sure where you have given these lectures but the tone of your postings suggest a strong minded view which may mean your questions are asked in a manner that could channel the feedback you crave

I would suggest if you have the opportunity to give talks in the top Chinese universities such as Tsinghua Peking or Fudan and have a word with the students as most of these guys will eventually form the central party folks deemed evil or dictators by your definition. All past leaders are from these universities and moderates including Li Keqiang

Are they fervent about their country ...of course why would they not be ? If you pop to any student bodies around the world and ask the same questions , rightly people are proud of their own country and interests and at that age thy are more inclined to say yes/ no rather than take a more worldly view on things

It is however interesting to note that those with a more worldly view of things for some of the students, the moderates are also keen to see where policy making will eventually affect their futures and their next generation

I am counting on them to make the next political powers and hopefully make a better China for them and the people

I'm most impressed by the students in Guangdong Province who would like to separate from the CCP-PRC to form a democratic government and society based on the nearby Taiwan model, i.e., to secede to form their own democratic republic in the literal meaning. These students are not in the majority but they do exist and are irreversibly alienated from the CCP. Other Guangdong students want to remain a part of China but with democracy and freedom.

For everyone's information excepting yourself and a few others, Guangdong province is in the southernmost CCP-PRC adjacent to Hong Kong and Macau, with Taiwan off its northeast coast. Guangdong is the most developed province as a province, along with Beijing and Shanghai, but is very different from the northern PRChina and the northern PRChinese. Guangdong is an awkward presence in the existing CCP-PRC to include its governors appointed by Beijing and other officials who are liberal minded reformers of a radical type.

I see the elitist students of the elite Tsinghua and Peking universities among a few other elite universities as a part of the problem rather than as a part of the solution. They are of the princelings and carry with them the vested interests of the corrupt elder princeling dictators who are their well placed CCP parents and relatives.

I make it a point to wine and dine with students wherever I go. The present concern is of the housing and property bubble that is not going to end well, the shadow banking system that is even more corrupt than the state owned banks, failing wealth management products and the massive local government debt connected to development corporations established by the corrupt local governments themselves to their own benefit. The debt to GDP ratio is now hovering around 200%.

The PRChinese young, middle aged and old know the whole system is corrupt and wrong and is going to come crashing down very soon. I ask students what they were going to do when the inevitable and impending crash comes. "Watch," was the response. In other words, they don't know what they are going to do because they've never experienced a Soviet Union kind of collapse of an entire economy, society, political system. Who among us has experienced such a catastrophic collapse?

The CCP is nervous, which one can understand. What are the CCP nervous about? Getting to their private planes in time to escape to the villas in Europe and to the housing properties they have purchased in Australia, Canada, the USA and throughout Europe. The rest of the billion poor suckers are going to have to remain behind to freeze and starve.

Nobody talks about Japan in this way. While Mao was tearing apart the country with his Cultural Revolution, Japan was focused on becoming the advanced economy and society that it remains today, troubles and all.

[boomerangutang]

Is there any sort of 'back to the land' movement in China? Granted, China is already quite agrarian, but many, if not most of those people have (or are planning to) gravitated to cities - where jobs are. I thought of this question, because of Publicus asking students what they would do if the shit hits the fan (using nicer language, I'm sure). And students respond; 'watch' and/or 'they don't know.'

If the majority of Chinese weren't so fixated on cities, then perhaps they could see the advantages of getting by in rural environments. that way, being more self-sufficient with food, shelter, power, etc. Perhaps one reason that concept is frowned upon, is young folks hear about the miserable rural 're-education camps' of their parents' and grandparents' times.

I read about how many young Chinese are struggling mightily with just trying to get a piece of crap apartment and make ends meet - even if they have a job. And all the scenarios are in big cities.

Making money (which everyone thinks can only be done in cities) can be done rurally , with internet connections and/or innovative thinking. Maybe I'm too much of an old hippie from the US, to see that a satisfactory 'back to the land' movement in China is unreasonable to fathom.

Or perhaps some of that has already been happening, except every town becomes a city, and every city becomes a burgeoning metropolis.

Edited August 28, 2013 by boomerangutang

[ABCer]

Beijing isn't ever going to stop its determination to become the dominant regional power in East Asia.

Beijing will cause or create a shooting incident sooner or later, people will die. Then things will only get worse.

No matter what Beijing tries or does, however, it looses.

The Promise and Peril of China’s New Coast Guard

http://thediplomat.com/2013/08/07/the-promise-and-peril-of-chinas-new-coast-guard/

Four ships from the newly established China Coast Guard (CCG) were deployed in the East China Sea near the disputed Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands on July 24, as reported by Kyodo News and Xinhua.

The ships have also been sighted in the area around Mischief Reef according to a confidential Philippine government report.

While Chinese government vessels have consistently entered both seas over the past year, this marked the first time ships did so under the restructured State Oceanic Administration (SOA).

Dear Publicus. I wish with all my heart that your pronouncements go strait into God's ears. Be assured, I am not on PRC side.

But I have strongest possible doubts that all the glorious photographs on joint exercises, easy successful maneuvers and 're-takings' are nothing more than a bravado PR.

If you look to history you will see many examples of West defeats from the Commies from results of WWII till the end of Cold War era.

Comm USSR was never defeated by the West militarily. Their collapse was purely economic, from within.

Unfortunately this is not happening in the case of PRC. Military advantage is too often on the side of a Totalitarian regime compared with Democracy.

If you are so sure and I am just a 'doom & gloom' pessimist - why Japan is so worried? I'm afraid they have good reasons to be.

I agree with you in one thing only - "The things will only get worse". Do we put the same meaning in these words? I wouldn't want to live to see this.

I think you're missing some things. Please name me a communist government that has both prospered and lasted - both, not just one.

The USSR never had a real war with the West. It never had the money to invest in a good military and it still doesn't, as Russia. China and Russia are using 60's technology. China is striving to catch up but it has a long way to go.

If Japan is being given access to Global Hawks which can fly so high that they can't be reached by missiles even if they could be seen because they are stealth, that alone could sink anything China could put in the water. As an aside, I wonder if the US would give Japan control of those drones, or would control them from the US as they do drones in the Middle East.

I would again caution against making the classic mistake, error, of underestimating one's enemy.

Beijing is focused on disabling U.S. satellites in space, thus making the United States military blind in any conflict, large or small. Beijing is focused on cyberwarfare to disable all power and communications grids in the United States and globally, depending on the conflict situation. Beijing is focused on land to sea missile technology to neutralize or to defeat the U.S. navy at sea without the customary naval shows of force or actual sea battles involving fleets of warships and naval aircraft.

The CCP are lunatics with the grand plans and designs of maniacs such as Hitler, focusing on new technologies of warfare, new strategies, thorough preparations to initiate blitzkrieg war. In the present, a technological blitzkrieg consists of a matter of days, not weeks or months.

Is the United States prepared to defend against space warfare and against cyberattacks against the homeland? No, it is not.

Is Beijing prepared to implement its plan in full? No, it is not. The first two elements are still being further developed. Beijing is only now beginning to focus on the naval aspect.

When Beijing is ready, which will require another decade, it will make its move against the Senkaku Islands and Japan - to include Japan's treaty ally, the United States.

Beijing isn't likely to make any move against the Senkaku Islands while Shinzo Abe is prime minister because Abe will fight back, which Beijing doesn't yet want. However, events may carry Beijing forward in its planning to act in the present. Miscalculation is one factor that could be in play. A sudden ascendancy of the military's point of view of a short, decisive military action - kill the chicken to scare the monkey - may occur to precipitate military action.

Lunatics often are calculating, measured, systematic, deceptive. They can be rational - crazy rational. Or they can have their dangerous moments of sheer lunacy.

Just add that a $10 M anti-carrier missile knocks out a multi billion cost carrier and you will see some arguments here mentioning 60's technology used by Chinese. Madness! I hope there are some really knowledgeable Generals advising US.

And one more moment to remember - China, being what it is lets West know only what they want them to know.

[Publicus]

Is there any sort of 'back to the land' movement in China? Granted, China is already quite agrarian, but many, if not most of those people have (or are planning to) gravitated to cities - where jobs are. I thought of this question, because of Publicus asking students what they would do if the shit hits the fan (using nicer language, I'm sure). And students respond; 'watch' and/or 'they don't know.'

If the majority of Chinese weren't so fixated on cities, then perhaps they could see the advantages of getting by in rural environments. that way, being more self-sufficient with food, shelter, power, etc. Perhaps one reason that concept is frowned upon, is young folks hear about the miserable rural 're-education camps' of their parents' and grandparents' times.

I read about how many young Chinese are struggling mightily with just trying to get a piece of crap apartment and make ends meet - even if they have a job. And all the scenarios are in big cities.

Making money (which everyone thinks can only be done in cities) can be done rurally , with internet connections and/or innovative thinking. Maybe I'm too much of an old hippie from the US, to see that a satisfactory 'back to the land' movement in China is unreasonable to fathom.

Or perhaps some of that has already been happening, except every town becomes a city, and every city becomes a burgeoning metropolis.

The question comes from an important perspective, back to the land, i.e., back to the basics with the modern world carefully and selectively applied to the countryside.

Migration in the CCP-PRC however is one directional, and that is to the cities. If you're in the countryside a city will be built where you are like it or not.

This is true because no one wants to return to the countryside which remains poor and backward. No one is interested in trying to develop the countryside in to a modern and livable place.

I know PRChinese university graduates who can't find suitable jobs so they become a hotel doorman or work in a mall restaurant. As many as eight have to share a two room apartment because they don't earn enough money and the apartments are expensive. The PRChinese call these fellow citizens "antizens" because they are anonymous workers in society and live in such cramped and bad conditions. But they never will return to the countryside, or consider a back to the land movement.

They're not New York City types who after a long enough period of time decide to move to Vermont. Nothing like that. For the first time ever, the slight majority of PRChinese live in urban metro areas and wouldn't have it any other way.

[boomerangutang]

Someone should write a book, about some radicals who put purified mescaline in Chinese municipal water supplies. Folks drink it, and the younger ones start thinking radical thoughts like "free love" and "make love, not war" and "flower power". They start watching Easy Rider, and get hold of the original "Whole Earth Catalog" (translated in to Chinese, of course). Then they get Ram Das' 'Be Here Now' and after a few months, multitudes of Chinese, mostly 15 to 35, are dressed in flower pattern bell bottoms, Hare Krishna are singing at the mall, Jimi Jong Hendrik is jamming in the park, and.....

oops, I must have taken the wrong pill this morning, sorry.

[SinglePot]

Back to the land? You have got to be joking. They all want to be the Lao bai Sin that Lawrence Chee refers to.

"they buy Japanese goods and the high end stuff and contribute to the economy, seen $2000 USD tiger brand / hitachi rice cookers before ? The Chinese snapped these up and the Japanese cooking knives and food items."

Rampant materialism, the Chinese Dream after decades of having nothing.

Trouble is there's 1.4billion of em. Nouveau riche, dog eat dog. If your neighbour has, the chances are you won't.

While Japan was developing its advanced economy and society, what was China doing?

No surprise Mrs Xi Jinping was very impressed with Japanese cities. Beijing is a polluted sh***** without a soul.

Tibet? Another story. Same enemy. Repressive, ignorant CCP.

Edited August 28, 2013 by SinglePot