Protesters call on Thai Army to stage 'peaceful coup'

[Thai at Heart]

If the people really took the country back, the first thing they would do, would be to put the army under their control, and that is never ever going to happen.

Ahh.... but we can still dream.....

Of course, the second thing they might do would be to kick out all us pesky farangs who are the source of all that is wrong with this country... because it's surely not the Thais' fault.

They keep us here as a convenient scapegoat and entertainment, and to pick up beer tabs.

[Thai at Heart]

As Thailand moves closer to a Marcos style democratic dictatorship run by the Shinawats how long will it take for Thailand to become a mirror image of the broke and ineffectual Philippines. As Thailand gets closer to this model then there will be a coup, a few year away I think.

Oh great. Can't they hire the British govt to run it for a few years? I mean, they wouldn't sniff at the cash.

[Thereisnoif]

I long for the day when the thai ' elite' will grab the principle that democracy and military coups cannot co-exist .

[Gsxrnz]

Traditionally, about a month or so before Thailand has a coup, the top army brass have a press conference to deny rumours of any impending coup.

So until they have that press conference we can be fairly certain that there won't be a coup.

I suspect the generals are too busy making money at the moment to consider launching a coup.

[whybother]

I really like it when the Loyal Opposition shows their true colors ...

We can't win elections so Please Have A Coup

Are they Democrats? Or are they part of some other party that have run in elections?

Edited July 11, 2013 by whybother

[petedk]

As Thailand moves closer to a Marcos style democratic dictatorship run by the Shinawats how long will it take for Thailand to become a mirror image of the broke and ineffectual Philippines. As Thailand gets closer to this model then there will be a coup, a few year away I think.

I doubt if there ever will be a coup in Thailand . I think that this government will, as you say, form a Marcos style democratic dictatorship but with complete control of the military thus preventing any coup.

I think there is a bigger danger of a civil war , especially if Thaksin does return to Thailand.

[jpinx]

Civil war is just an extended form of revolution - neither is preferable to elections, but as we have seen in many cases the losing side has a nasty tendency to not accept the result and cause a lot of trouble. Romania,Portugal, etc are being held up as examples of "successful" revolutions/coups but look at the aftermath in each case and there is always a large amount of resentment between sections of the populace. Constitutions are cobbled together, argued over and torn up - all as per Egypt. The saving grace in Thailand is the undying devotion of Thais to His Majesty the King. Without that binding force any one of the previous recent coups would have torn the country to bits and there would be a lot more people speaking Khymer or Lao or Malay. Civilisations have a tendency to lean somewhat hard on their self-destruct button from time to time -- anyone remember the Cuba Crisis ?

[Thai at Heart]

As Thailand moves closer to a Marcos style democratic dictatorship run by the Shinawats how long will it take for Thailand to become a mirror image of the broke and ineffectual Philippines. As Thailand gets closer to this model then there will be a coup, a few year away I think.

I doubt if there ever will be a coup in Thailand . I think that this government will, as you say, form a Marcos style democratic dictatorship but with complete control of the military thus preventing any coup.

I think there is a bigger danger of a civil war , especially if Thaksin does return to Thailand.

What do you mean ever? It's as frequent as elected governments seeing out their term.

It's an inevitable eventuality.

[tominbkk]

I have a feeling that military forces are being paid off a royal sum to acquiesce to the moneygrab, and not attempt a coup. Money can solve (and calm) everything...

[Thai at Heart]

IMHO one of the problems with democracy is how to remove an elected government that is out of control. It's just not good enough to wait until the next election, by which time it may be too late. Impeachment? Virtually impossible when the party in power controls the bodies voting on the process.

Thailand is not a fully developed democracy anyway and it is necessary - as OZmick has outlined - to maintain the military at arms length in order to provide the main hurdle to creeping dictatorship. The current government set up is unusual - to put it mildly - in having a convicted criminal dictating government policy and appointments.

However, I don't think that the country has currently reached the point of no return (when it did in 2006) yet. It will if Thaksin is allowed back without serving jail time. There are still some checks & balance bodies maintaining their independence - the CC, Admin court, Ombudsman & a few others.

Corruption in itself is not a good enough reason to remove a party in power but as soon as they move towards absolute power it's time to act.

What is the point in creating a system whereby it is extremely simple to remove a majority government by a democratic process. This in and of itself would create complete policy impossibility. It cuts both ways, as much as anyone may not like PTP, the same system would be used endlessly to remove any government. They need to remove impunity for MP's for crimminal wrongdoing and they need to cut down the amount of party list MP's.

That would be a start at least.

I never mentioned a system where it is 'extremely simple to remove a majority government' - I mentioned that it is virtually impossible to do it by any democratic process. It needs to be possible but not too easy or difficult and it just doesn't exist in Thailand.

Your suggestions are only scratching the surface. My point is that when excessive power - not corruption alone - by a party (or controller of a party) is grabbed, it's time to act & have some mechanism to stop it. Thailand has that extra check in the military & that's why they should not be subservient to the party in power.

they have the, sanction votes, of which i forget the name in english, but a majority government will always win. what is desperately needed is support for whistle blowers within the civil service like suda.

[moradave]

How can Thailand ever become a proper democracy without going through several cycles of government change via fair and honest campaigns and elections. Give Democracy a chance. Other countries in Asia such as Singapore, Malaysia, Taiwan, have done it. So can Thailand.

[Thai at Heart]

How can Thailand ever become a proper democracy without going through several cycles of government change via fair and honest campaigns and elections. Give Democracy a chance. Other countries in Asia such as Singapore, Malaysia, Taiwan, have done it. So can Thailand.

There is far too much to lose by genuinely giving democracy a chance in this country. The army loses, business loses their influence etc etc. This is a managed democracy. I sometimes thing that the Chinese looked at Thailand and came up with the system for Hong Kong after looking at Thailand.

[OzMick]

It would seem that both the politicians and people of Thailand are slow learners, and the cultural tendency to admire the wealthy and powerful even when they are obviously criminals is difficult to change.

Like it or not, the threat of a coup hangs over the government like a Sword of Damocles, reminding them there a legal and constitutional limits to their powers. There are better ways of doing it, but they don't exist here (for now).

But the factions that would undertake the coup, that is the reactionary army generals are themselves wealthy, corrupt and powerful criminals.Wouldn't it be rather better for the political opposition to ditch their incompetent and discredited leadership, detoxify their image and present a credible platform at the next general election for the Thai people to consider.

It's obvious that some have become very excited by events in Egypt where an elected government was ejected by the army, and fantasise that this could be replicated in a Thailand coup.Dream on.

Why would you suggest that "the political opposition to ditch their incompetent and discredited leadership" rather than the current government? Wouldn't that remove the impetus for a coup?

And be on topic rather than your standard response "what about the democrats"?

Perhaps it's because leadership change is not a possibility in the autocratic PTP.

[Thai at Heart]

To ozmick.

It's more likely that ptp cannibalises itself as they all stab and feed off each other as the scandals start to mount.

[OzMick]

What is a 'peaceful coup' ??

One similar to the 2006 event, where there was little opposition, and a great deal of support, from the general population, and with zero to very limited bloodshed or loss of life. The trouble with them is that they are like turning on a light to remove cockroaches. Yes, they scurry out of sight, but come back as soon as the light goes out.

[OzMick]

To ozmick.

It's more likely that ptp cannibalises itself as they all stab and feed off each other as the scandals start to mount.

Hmmm, Hotel California comes to mind. "They stab him with their steely knives, but they just can't kill the Beast".

In reality, the corruption and scams just supply more funds to buy votes at the next election. Vast slabs of the Thai population can't or won't recognise corruption if it bit them on the butt, and think a conflict of interest is just smart business.

[jayboy]

Why would you suggest that "the political opposition to ditch their incompetent and discredited leadership" rather than the current government? .

Er,because the opposition is in opposition and the current government is in power.

[moradave]

How can Thailand ever become a proper democracy without going through several cycles of government change via fair and honest campaigns and elections. Give Democracy a chance. Other countries in Asia such as Singapore, Malaysia, Taiwan, have done it. So can Thailand.

There is far too much to lose by genuinely giving democracy a chance in this country. The army loses, business loses their influence etc etc. This is a managed democracy. I sometimes thing that the Chinese looked at Thailand and came up with the system for Hong Kong after looking at Thailand.

Yes, many generals, business bosses and corrupt politicians will lose. Who will gain? The people.

The people should not be afraid of the government. The government should be afraid of the people.

Edited July 11, 2013 by moradave

[whybother]

Why would you suggest that "the political opposition to ditch their incompetent and discredited leadership" rather than the current government? .

Er,because the opposition is in opposition and the current government is in power.

Should all the smaller parties dump their leaders? They only got a couple of percent of the vote at the last election. The Democrats got about 35%, and with the PTP's performance, they'll get a few more percent at the next election.

Will the PTP dump their leadership when they lose a few percent of the vote at the next election?

[theblether]

The best thing the Army could do is to ensure the rule of law, that would be a great service to the country.

The court system should be sharpened up and these ridiculous situations such as the Red Bull Ferrari Killer should be nipped in the bud. His avoidance of summonses would see MP's being sent to arrest him and bail refused. That would run a shock wave through the country, telling everyone that the rule of law will be enforced even handedly.

Am I dreaming? Possibly.......could it be done? Absolutely. This place will be a banana republic until the law is enforced for all, and when that happens, many of the problems you see now would disappear.

[DocN]

If one follows one single event reported immediately preceding the 2006 coup it is obvious who the Army answers too.

Agree with the Ozzie Mick on this thread. And good luck to the Baggy Greens tonite.

Coups are not the answer unless the point is hit that the path to democracy is on the point of being steered away from. That has not happened yet but the test of that is about to come in the parliamentary season. In the interim if the Isaanite Reds are ignorant enough to accept ฿500 every 4 years as trade for their and their daughters continued life in servitude to enrich the life styles of these incompetent Shinawatra thieves then they deserve the constant misery that they are being delivered in ever increasing bucket loads of crap.

Edited to remove the quote from post that was removed by Moderators

Just FYI: my ex is not from Isaan and she was offered money from BOTH sides in the last general election.

Do you really believe, that only the Shinawatras are getting rich on the back of the Thai- or Isan- population and the Democrats (f.e.) are walking around in rags and tatters and are just serving the greater good?

[OzMick]

Why would you suggest that "the political opposition to ditch their incompetent and discredited leadership" rather than the current government? .Wouldn't that remove the impetus for a coup?

And be on topic rather than your standard response "what about the democrats"?

Perhaps it's because leadership change is not a possibility in the autocratic PTP.

Er,because the opposition is in opposition and the current government is in power.

Now that I've restored my post to its original content, would you care to answer the emphasised question rather than just state some inanity?

[Noistar]

The best thing the Army could do is to ensure the rule of law, that would be a great service to the country.

The court system should be sharpened up and these ridiculous situations such as the Red Bull Ferrari Killer should be nipped in the bud. His avoidance of summonses would see MP's being sent to arrest him and bail refused. That would run a shock wave through the country, telling everyone that the rule of law will be enforced even handedly.

Am I dreaming? Possibly.......could it be done? Absolutely. This place will be a banana republic until the law is enforced for all, and when that happens, many of the problems you see now would disappear.

You share my frustration.

Thai culture, Mai Ben drie, me me me is allowing everything to perpetuate.

I don't know what can make things change.

The education machine keeps turning out same, same. Teaching(!) the importance of Thai culture which means it will go on and on.

The general public seem to be apathetic.

Everything bad is accepted - I lose count of the"up to them" comments

Deep breaths

Humblest opinion etc

[theblether]

Strange you mention the teaching, I just commented on another thread that has to be sorted out, ( the invest in people, not rice thread ).

It's a systemic problem.

I think that it's tragic that the young of this country, especially those that are hard working and keen to learn, are so poorly served.

[jpinx]

Given a populace with a strong enough will, everything is possible peacefully. Look at Iceland for a good example.

[jayboy]

Why would you suggest that "the political opposition to ditch their incompetent and discredited leadership" rather than the current government? .Wouldn't that remove the impetus for a coup?

And be on topic rather than your standard response "what about the democrats"?

Perhaps it's because leadership change is not a possibility in the autocratic PTP.

Er,because the opposition is in opposition and the current government is in power.

Now that I've restored my post to its original content, would you care to answer the emphasised question rather than just state some inanity?

If the opposition improved its act by shaking up its discredited leadership and presenting a platform of policies that could secure a general election victory, that wouldn't necessarily "remove the impetus for a coup" because the Democrat party would no longer be a willing tool for reactionary interests and the military dinosaurs.But clearly it would be helpful because the unelected elites would no longer have a tame major political party to act as their agent.

[OzMick]

Why would you suggest that "the political opposition to ditch their incompetent and discredited leadership" rather than the current government? .Wouldn't that remove the impetus for a coup?

And be on topic rather than your standard response "what about the democrats"?

Perhaps it's because leadership change is not a possibility in the autocratic PTP.

Er,because the opposition is in opposition and the current government is in power.

Now that I've restored my post to its original content, would you care to answer the emphasised question rather than just state some inanity?

If the opposition improved its act by shaking up its discredited leadership and presenting a platform of policies that could secure a general election victory, that wouldn't necessarily "remove the impetus for a coup" because the Democrat party would no longer be a willing tool for reactionary interests and the military dinosaurs.But clearly it would be helpful because the unelected elites would no longer have a tame major political party to act as their agent.

Oh dear! Coups are carried out against the government, not the opposition, and the quality of the opposition (and their sponsors/supporters) is immaterial. If you want to prevent a coup, improve the government. Is that such a difficult concept to grasp?

Now we might discuss why improving the quality of leadership of the government is so phenomenally difficult - only Shinawatras and their succubi are acceptable.

[Siripon]

I agree with Jayboy about the importance of an invigorated Democrat party, Alongkon spoke the truth about the need for reform of the party

For policy, education reforms, taxes on idle land, land reform, community rights, come to mind.

The irony is the Democrat Party actually has many more branches than Pheua Thai, but all important decision making in recent years has rested in Apisit's inner circle. A situation that must change. And indeed the Democrats lately have been seen to be reaching out to the people more.

[smutcakes]

I agree with Jayboy about the importance of an invigorated Democrat party, Alongkon spoke the truth about the need for reform of the party

For policy, education reforms, taxes on idle land, land reform, community rights, come to mind.

The irony is the Democrat Party actually has many more branches than Pheua Thai, but all important decision making in recent years has rested in Apisit's inner circle. A situation that must change. And indeed the Democrats lately have been seen to be reaching out to the people more.

I agree, but they wont change- the need for them to modernize has been clear to see for 15 years but the old pig headed dinosaurs in charge still believe they have the god given right to everything they want, without pesky interference's like elections getting in the way.

[Scott]

A post with messed up quotes has been deleted.