What Is The Real Value Of Dual Citizenship?

[Marisa]

I was born and educated in the UK but have Thai/British citizenship.

I moved to Thailand Jan 05 with the intention of learning Thai and then travelling a bit then returning to the UK. I got here and realised I wanted to stay for longer so I found myself a job.

I am neither a more mature male expat (as my senior full 'English' Directors) nor am I a full Thai or accepted as such. Having lived in the UK all my life, I also have mixed cultural influences. I sometimes also struggle with being a 'look krung'.

Having only ever worked in the UK, I realise that work ethic here is very different, as is the salary.

Since being here, I have slowly realised what a benefit my dual citizenship is, and my different perspective and attitude to work compared to some of my Thai counterparts. But my English directors (who are obviously very experienced and a lot older) have a very high standard of living here. I don't seem to be receiving that particular benefit? Or at least I don't think I am!?

My question is, how much is that worth here? I feel a have a lot more responsibility than many of my colleagues, often work a lot harder, and am heavily relied upon by the most senior people in the company. I was recently offered a job double my current salary here. I really like the people and company I work for at the moment but feel I may be being taken advantage of. I am 26 years old, with a degree from the UK, and lots of relevant experience in my field - and am a lot maturer than my age would suggest in terms of knowledge and experience.

My salary in the UK was around 30,500gpb per annum. Is there a way to make a direct calculation of worth here in Thailand? I want a realistic way to calculate this.

Any advice?

[samran]

Depends on what type of lifestyle you want to lead. I look less at what I am consuming now, but more about how much I can save at the end of the day.

Here, I am lucky enough to be earning similar amounts to what I was getting in the UK or Australia, but my savings capacity is greatly increased. Even if I earned less, I'd still be able to save more than when I was in London.

If you feel that you are able to save more, then I think you are better off.

[samran]

In terms of salary scale though, what do you do? You sould like a lawyer!

[GuestHouse]

I was recently offered a job double my current salary here

Take the job.

[Heng]

I was born and educated in the UK but have Thai/British citizenship.

Having only ever worked in the UK, I realise that work ethic here is very different, as is the salary.

Since being here, I have slowly realised what a benefit my dual citizenship is, and my different perspective and attitude to work compared to some of my Thai counterparts. But my English directors (who are obviously very experienced and a lot older) have a very high standard of living here. I don't seem to be receiving that particular benefit? Or at least I don't think I am!?

My question is, how much is that worth here? I feel a have a lot more responsibility than many of my colleagues, often work a lot harder, and am heavily relied upon by the most senior people in the company. I was recently offered a job double my current salary here. I really like the people and company I work for at the moment but feel I may be being taken advantage of. I am 26 years old, with a degree from the UK, and lots of relevant experience in my field - and am a lot maturer than my age would suggest in terms of knowledge and experience.

My salary in the UK was around 30,500gpb per annum. Is there a way to make a direct calculation of worth here in Thailand? I want a realistic way to calculate this.

Any advice?

IMO managers and business people in general will still be more interested in what you have actually done in terms of tangible results over the course of your career, less so the mere fact that you have dual citizenship and both the eastern and western mindset. If you're a professional, you'll end up like Stevemagnino, if you're just a professional luk krung, you'll end up somewhere along the lines between Willie McIntosh and DJ Pat.

[Marisa]

Thanks for your replies.

No I am not a lawyer - but I am a professional (let's say 'project manager' for arguments sake), and my achievements, ability to get the work done to a high standard, on time and keep clients happy are things that very few people in the company seem capable of. Everyone openly acknowledges this.

Anyway, the problem is exactly as you said. My ability to save is nothing compared to what it was in the UK. At the moment I just live day to day. I am frugal with my money, and yet struggle to save anything monthly. If anything came up or I needed something urgently, I would struggle. I still have student loans etc in the UK which I cannot even think about paying.

I know my company value me - and are open to suggestions and negotiation for a mutually beneficial outcome. As much as it sounds like it, it's not ALL about the money but I am curious.

The dual citizenship is additional to my work ethic and attitude (pro activeness etc) that doesn't really exist in my current situation - but I feel the whole comination is quite uncommon in my field of work.....

[Thaible]

Go back to the UK if you'll learn a real skill.

Project management is nice, but not what most would consider a real skill that is rare and can be assigned a dollar value.

If you're a luuk kreung and a girl, being cute probably gets you pretty far for now, but it won't as you get older.

[GuestHouse]

Project management is nice, but not what most would consider a real skill that is rare and can be assigned a dollar value.

I know a lot of very well paid project managers... and I mean VERY WELL PAID.

[p_brownstone]

I think a lot would depend on how you applied for the job in the first place.

If you applied as a Thai who happens to have British Nationality then you would more likely be put on a “Thai” Salary and Benefits package.

Much better to present yourself, and apply, as a “Farang” who also happens to have Thai Nationality, that way you could expect to be hired as an Expatriate with all the relevant benefits etc., in fact you could insist on it.

Patrick

[meom]

Project management is nice, but not what most would consider a real skill that is rare and can be assigned a dollar value.

I suppose as a project manager you need to fit all the details of a project together and that requires some skill although often the project manager's success depends upon the team surrounding him.

[samran]

IT project management?

Do you have Prince 2 Qualifications? If not, I'd go back to the UK to get them, or try and get your work here to pay for them.

[Marisa]

Not IT project management. It's just the best way to describe the management I am involved in. Jugggling lots, doing lots, filling in information needed to get the job done, taking responsibility, making decisions or at least taking the responsibility for making decisions etc.

I just want to have a realistic idea about what to expect. If I start looking for another job, I want it to be fair. I wouldn't want to oversell myself and demand the earth, but I also want to valued or at least rewarded appropriately.

The level of skill and responsibility is high. Should I be asking for a UK salary or 1/6th or something. Are all Farangs here on a UK (whatever) salary? Or at least equivalent? I know I am not on the equivalent to my UK salary. Put it that way? But there must be some kind of calcuation that can be done. Or someone who knows the markets to know what I should ask for if they were recruiting someone with X, Y and Z skills, experience etc.

Hmmmm?????

[meom]

Maybe you should be a bit more specific about the industry you're working in because I don't think there is a fixed guideline to go by.

The company I'm working for used to hire sometimes project managers and salaries varied from $350/day to $1000/day depending upon the value of the project, duration etc.

[farangene]

You know exactly what you are worth-- twice as much as you are making now to an outside firm who (I assume) know nothing of your work habits or personal habits.

I had a great boss at one time who urged his employees to interview outside the company once a year to determine their market value. You need to know what you could be making.

Then it is time to become a salesman and sell yourself to your present management. Tell them you have an offer you are seriously considering, tell them the magnitude of the offer, and then let them do the talking.

Be ready to verbally support your request for a serious salary increase to your management. If they don't react or don't at least come close to what is already on the table, I would jump ship to the other firm.

You work to be fairly compensated and it doesn't sound lke you are fairly compensated now if the alternative offer is legitimate.

[Heng]

Can you sell houses? PM on the way.

[Thaible]

Dual citizenship gives you a better chance of getting the job, but won't get the expat package.

Even expats only get the package temporarily. When the company can find a local that can do the same job, or have gotten a local employee to learn the job from the expat, they'll fire the expat and hire the local.

Conclusion: Go to UK and get some real skills. Once you hit 30, no one will hire you without a real skill.

[Prakanong2005]

Project management is nice, but not what most would consider a real skill that is rare and can be assigned a dollar value.

I know a lot of very well paid project managers... and I mean VERY WELL PAID.

Yeah - in the Uk for IT Projects they are offering 70k GBP in the public sector right now.

Contracting - I heard one this week that was very highly paid - back to 99 rates.

[Thaible]

Stil don't think project management is a real skill.

A quiz to see if a particular job is a real skill (job vs career):

-How many make it to CEO?

-Can you start your own business?

-Are there any people over the age of 40 doing it?

There are plenty of jobs where being young and good-looking is enough, and you could even get paid well temporarily, but once you hit a certain age no one will hire you.

[meom]

I'm sure what you're saying would be applicable to some industries but not for all.

For example here in the middle-east there's a lot of expansion going on and most project managers I've met are well above 40. Ok if they're building a new Plant they are normally called construction managers but it's basically the same. A lot of them are either direct hire or work freelance through a consultancy but they all seem to be well off and having a good career.

[Marisa]

I don't know how project management isn't a real skill?

Most of my job is about detailed knowledge in my area of work about marketing, production, using specialist software, costs, procedures blah blah blah. Not everyone can manage multi faceted projects and pull things together. It does take a certain kind of understanding and kind of brain to be able to cross over into multiple areas to make the projects work.

(Not to sound arrogant) but if it is considered a skill in the UK - and I am well paid for it there, I don't know how it's not here. There is a market for it here too. I know because there are other companies who do it here.

It's nothing to do with my physical appearance?! I know I am competent and that is why I was taken on in the first place.

Maybe I will carry out some research about ecomonics. I know there must be some figures to compare to. Or as mentioned, interview else where to get an idea of a market value for what I do.

Thanks for all replies so far....

[mbkudu]

if you're just a professional luk krung, you'll end up somewhere along the lines between Willie McIntosh and DJ Pat.

Jeez, that's really striking the bottom of the barrel. Willie's alright, but DJ Pat? Underachieving to the max.