refrain from using your mobile devices while charging

[Asiantravel]

refrain from using your mobile devices while charging

Apple Investigates China iPhone Death Allegations

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2013/07/15/apple-investigates-china-iphone-death-allegations/

[johnlandy]

I don't see a problem using it on speaker mode.

And yes, while someone got themselves electrocuted the info in the bulletin is not exactly exhaustive.

[jackflash]

The problem is that cheap plug-pack power supplies don't have much isolation between the Mains and the Low Voltage Output

and most don't have an Earth pin.

If the isolation breaks down then the phone can become live. Very dangerous.

Even getting the plug pack wet can be sufficient.

Not much point blaming the phone however.

And don't forget to switch off your mobile phone if here's lightning nearby (an amusing Isaan myth) :-)

Edited July 16, 2013 by jackflash

[Cuban]

Somewhat misleading and an element of scaremongering.

The iPhone has a metal body and IF there is a fault in the charger being used AND there is no protective earthing connection, AND the user provides a path to earth (bare feet on tiled floor etc) then yes there will be a shock.

In many Thai buildings there is no wired earth connection and many devices like PCs etc with an unearthed metal case will float up to a high enough voltage to deliver a painful shock.

Not if you have a house wired correctly (the DIY forum is full of " earthing how to").

Likelihood is that the person was using a fault charger, Chinese made certainly - from Apple, probably not.

[Jayman]

Somewhat misleading and an element of scaremongering.

The iPhone has a metal body and IF there is a fault in the charger being used AND there is no protective earthing connection, AND the user provides a path to earth (bare feet on tiled floor etc) then yes there will be a shock.

In many Thai buildings there is no wired earth connection and many devices like PCs etc with an unearthed metal case will float up to a high enough voltage to deliver a painful shock.

Not if you have a house wired correctly (the DIY forum is full of " earthing how to").

Likelihood is that the person was using a fault charger, Chinese made certainly - from Apple, probably not.

aren't all apple products Chinese made?

[Andre0720]

Accidents related to driving cars and motorbikes while using a mobile are just not mere allegations.

Way more dangerous.

And just about nobody cares....

[nosatisfaction]

The risk is not only electrocution, there is also the problem of the amperage, = exponential Temperature, going through the battery pack that is much higher than in stand by position with result exploding batterys.

[Cuban]

aren't all apple products Chinese made?

Are you failing to understand the difference between coming from an Apple managed factory in China and a generic charger that has the same look and feel but built to a 1/3rd of the price of Apple products; but is also made in China?

They are different things?

Understand?

[Jayman]

aren't all apple products Chinese made?

Are you failing to understand the difference between coming from an Apple managed factory in China and a generic charger that has the same look and feel but built to a 1/3rd of the price of Apple products; but is also made in China?

They are different things?

Understand?

Oh so you are saying that the official chargers that come out of the apple factory in china have all the safety features you mention like a protective earthing connection. I didn't realize those are made with 3 prongs. Well that would certainly be safer than using a cheap knockoff that only has a 2 prong plug.

And since I don't actually own any apple products I'm not sure on this but I thought the Iphone uses a usb based charger that would mean 5vDC and not much need for a protective earthed ground,.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Jayman

[Cuban]

Speculation.

All answers are possible.

Although what is the likely cause ?

Given that +99.9999% of iPhone users with Apple chargers (both made in China) with either two or three pin connectors (is there even an earth-wire within the outlet?) are not being electrocuted when making or taking calls, texting etc with their iPhones on charge, whether it is raining or not.

How can I say 99.9999%?

Based on 85,000,000 sales (over 5 years) 0.0001% fatalities would be 8,500 deaths, I expect that that would have been reported and investigated as a significant safety issue, I've allowed a more than generous factor of x10 in your favour as I speculate the deaths caused by iPhone are in the tens and not even 850 if 99.99999% are used without death occurring.

Given the same sample size the number of deaths caused and connected to flying in 2011 would have been 184 fatalities. (Source IATA)

Your warning although well meaning is without any foundation in fact.

[sumrit]

Oh so you are saying that the official chargers that come out of the apple factory in china have all the safety features you mention like a protective earthing connection. I didn't realize those are made with 3 prongs. Well that would certainly be safer than using a cheap knockoff that only has a 2 prong plug.

No phone chargers are earthed. Even the ones with a 'UK' style three pin plug don't have an earth. The 'earth pin' is actually a plastic dummy pin. They only have live and neutral pins.

If a charger went faulty in a specific way you could still get a 5v DC output to charge the phone but that 5v could be 'floating' on the mains AC supply (either 110v or 220v) with respect to earth.

The phone itself would only 'see' the 5v DC in charging mode but if that phone had a metal part on it's casing somebody could pick it up while it's still connected to the charger and take that mains supply to earth via their own body.

Highly unlikely but theoretically possible.

[scooke]

If it was really a genuine iPhone... maybe the insides were fake parts with a 'genuine' iPhone exterior. TONS of fakes floating around China, and Thailand for that matter.

[HerbalEd]

aren't all apple products Chinese made?

Are you failing to understand the difference between coming from an Apple managed factory in China and a generic charger that has the same look and feel but built to a 1/3rd of the price of Apple products; but is also made in China?

They are different things?

Understand?

Oh so you are saying that the official chargers that come out of the apple factory in china have all the safety features you mention like a protective earthing connection. I didn't realize those are made with 3 prongs. Well that would certainly be safer than using a cheap knockoff that only has a 2 prong plug.

And since I don't actually own any apple products I'm not sure on this but I thought the Iphone uses a usb based charger that would mean 5vDC and not much need for a protective earthed ground,.

Like you said ... you don't own Apple products and are not sure on this. The iPhone can be charged by usb AND by connecting to 120 or 240 volt electrical sockets.

[vijer]

This is a load of BS, the Chinese are just as superstitious and ignorant as other Asians. They won't be able to prove it but more than likely she got zapped plugging the charger into a badly wired outlet. Of course the family has to blame it on Apple.

[vijer]

And don't forget to switch off your mobile phone if here's lightning nearby (an amusing Isaan myth) :-)

Actually not a myth, I believe the Thai's do this because electrical wiring is generally not grounded in most older homes. So if lighting strikes the power lines and there is a surge it just trashes all the electrical appliances in the house. The Thai's don't know what the real problem is but they do know that unplugging everything during a storm does keep their equipment from getting fried.

[Asiantravel]

If it was really a genuine iPhone... maybe the insides were fake parts with a 'genuine' iPhone exterior. TONS of fakes floating around China, and Thailand for that matter.

we will soon find out......................

Her sister then wrote on social networking site Weibo: 'I want to warn everyone else not to make phone calls when your mobile phone is recharging.'

She said Ma had bought the iPhone in December at an official Apple store and was using the original charger to recharge the phone when the incident occurred.

Miss Ma's brother, Yuelun, told Apple Daily that the family believe she died from an electric shock while answering a call and that the phone and its accessories have been handed over to the Chinese authorities.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2363956/Apple-launches-probe-Chinese-air-stewardess-23-dies-massive-electric-shock-answering-iPhone-5.html

[sumrit]

And don't forget to switch off your mobile phone if here's lightning nearby (an amusing Isaan myth) :-)

Actually not a myth, I believe the Thai's do this because electrical wiring is generally not grounded in most older homes. So if lighting strikes the power lines and there is a surge it just trashes all the electrical appliances in the house. The Thai's don't know what the real problem is but they do know that unplugging everything during a storm does keep their equipment from getting fried.

Having a true earth in the house won't prevent damage to any electrical appliances in the scenario you've suggested. Firstly the surge in the live cable in the power lines is not connected in any way to the house earth. Secondly the household appliances are damages by the excessive spiked potential (1,000's of volts) in that live wire. That potential will try to find it's own route to earth. ie: from it's connection to the appliance and through it to the ground it's sitting on, and that's how the appliance gets trashed. Having an earth on the appliance in this instance will have no effect whatsoever. True, if a house is earthed the spike will attempt to earth itself though a fuse box and the wall sockets as well but they will not short out that spike, or even reduce it significantly. The appliances will still be damaged.

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

Oh the irony of being killed by the latest and greatest must have device you went into debt for.

[Cuban]

There is a lot of fog in this thread by people that half-understand the issues involved...

And don't forget to switch off your mobile phone if here's lightning nearby (an amusing Isaan myth) :-)

This stems from the very real danger associated with using land-line telephones during an electrical storm, if the overhead wires that carry the telephone cable are struck by lightning then there is a very real chance that if you are using the handset of such a phone at the same moment then you will become part of the shortest route to earth that the lightning will take. There are many cases of this occurring in different parts of the world. And I believe I have read of various computer modems being fried by such lightning strikes in the computer subsection of this forum.

So for a generally uneducated Issan resident the association that land-line telephones are dangerous during lightning storms can easily be transitioned to the use of cell-phones during storms as well.

Although there might be a slight increase in the conductivity of the air around a cell-phone due to the radiated signal while in use I do not consider it significant, I recall an episode of Mythbusters that may have tackled this myth.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

They won't be able to prove it but more than likely she got zapped plugging the charger into a badly wired outlet. Of course the family has to blame it on Apple.

A fair bet that they are after a compensation from a big company - but it will depend on the phone and charger being 100% Apple products. My money is on the charger being a rip-off copy.

I can't see how a "badly wired" outlet in this case would cause a death, if it were a three pin outlet with live-earth reversed, maybe, but then that itself would require that the charger in use had a metal casing which as pointed out by others is unlikely.

Can you tell me how a "badly wired" outlet would cause this death?

If you look closely on your phone chargers you will see a square within a square logo which means the equipment is double insulated. This means there must be two layers of insulation between the pins/wires carrying the mains voltage and where you can touch with your hands.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The problem is that cheap plug-pack power supplies don't have much isolation between the Mains and the Low Voltage Output and most don't have an Earth pin.

If the isolation breaks down then the phone can become live. Very dangerous.

Even getting the plug pack wet can be sufficient.

Not much point blaming the phone however.

I suggest that the fault was a broken wire, failed solder joint or failed component within the charger that allowed the live mains feed to become connected to any of the wires that fed the low voltage supply to the iPhone.

Because the iPhone body is metal, this allowed a completed circuit to earth through the body of the person in question, via bare feet on a tiled floor etc. And probably fried the phone too.

So the iPhone's metal body was a contributing factor, not the cause.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

No phone chargers are earthed. Even the ones with a 'UK' style three pin plug don't have an earth. The 'earth pin' is actually a plastic dummy pin. They only have live and neutral pins.

If a charger went faulty in a specific way you could still get a 5v DC output to charge the phone but that 5v could be 'floating' on the mains AC supply (either 110v or 220v) with respect to earth.

The phone itself would only 'see' the 5v DC in charging mode but if that phone had a metal part on it's casing somebody could pick it up while it's still connected to the charger and take that mains supply to earth via their own body.

Highly unlikely but theoretically possible.

The floating half-mains voltage shock that you get when touching most computers (metal case) in Thailand (no earth connection with mains wiring) is very low current as your connection to the mains voltage through your feet on the tiled floor etc is via capacitors within the computer's switch mode power supply. Enough to wake you up, not enough to kill you. (Wet hands/feet increase your shock experience.)

The idea that earthing is important in cases like phone chargers is a distraction, earthing of metal cases is there for one reason only: To provide a sufficient fault current to cause the failure of the fuse (MCB etc) protecting that mains circuit. In such cases the fuses are designed to blow/fail within 1/4 of a main cycle to provide the least risk of exposing a person to mains volts on the metal case IF there should be a failure within the metal cased equipment that caused mains-volts to come in contact with the EARTHED metal case.

Of course where you have no fuses fitted in the plug you are dependant on the fuse/MCB within the distribution box/consumer unit mounted to the wall. All the Thai plugs I've encountered do not have plug top fuses, personally I consider this a failing of electrical safety.

A residual current device (similar to an Earth Leakage Breaker in old speak) would have tripped in the case we are discussing, the imbalance in current measured travelling from the Live wire compared to the Neutral wire would have suggested that current is passing through something it should not be, the young lady in question, and shut off the power within 20ms.

Residual current device circuit breakers cost about 1,500 Baht.

Probably a wise expense if you value your life and those that live with you.

[Sophon]

Speculation.

All answers are possible.

Although what is the likely cause ?

Given that +99.9999% of iPhone users with Apple chargers (both made in China) with either two or three pin connectors (is there even an earth-wire within the outlet?) are not being electrocuted when making or taking calls, texting etc with their iPhones on charge, whether it is raining or not.

How can I say 99.9999%?

Based on 85,000,000 sales (over 5 years) 0.0001% fatalities would be 8,500 deaths, I expect that that would have been reported and investigated as a significant safety issue, I've allowed a more than generous factor of x10 in your favour as I speculate the deaths caused by iPhone are in the tens and not even 850 if 99.99999% are used without death occurring.

Given the same sample size the number of deaths caused and connected to flying in 2011 would have been 184 fatalities. (Source IATA)

Your warning although well meaning is without any foundation in fact.

Not that I disagree with your conclusions, but you might want to redo your calculations. 0.0001% of 85 mio. is 85, not 8,500 (I think you forgot the percentage part).

Sophon

[Cuban]

I don't know if there are other sources? I found this report this afternoon.

A Chinese man has reportedly fallen into a coma after suffering an electric shock as he plugged in his iPhone 4 to charge.... ....'He shouted 'electric shock' and then fell to the floor,' Wu's sister told Xinhua news agency, adding that she felt a slight shock herself when she tried to unplug the faulty charger, which she said was not official Apple hardware.

It comes a week after an air stewardess was killed by an electric shock when she answered a call on her iPhone 5 while it was recharging on a wet third-party charger.

Source: Daily Mail UK.

Apple scaremongering - nothing new.

[vijer]

And don't forget to switch off your mobile phone if here's lightning nearby (an amusing Isaan myth) :-)

Actually not a myth, I believe the Thai's do this because electrical wiring is generally not grounded in most older homes. So if lighting strikes the power lines and there is a surge it just trashes all the electrical appliances in the house. The Thai's don't know what the real problem is but they do know that unplugging everything during a storm does keep their equipment from getting fried.

Having a true earth in the house won't prevent damage to any electrical appliances in the scenario you've suggested. Firstly the surge in the live cable in the power lines is not connected in any way to the house earth. Secondly the household appliances are damages by the excessive spiked potential (1,000's of volts) in that live wire. That potential will try to find it's own route to earth. ie: from it's connection to the appliance and through it to the ground it's sitting on, and that's how the appliance gets trashed. Having an earth on the appliance in this instance will have no effect whatsoever. True, if a house is earthed the spike will attempt to earth itself though a fuse box and the wall sockets as well but they will not short out that spike, or even reduce it significantly. The appliances will still be damaged.

Much more likely for the surge to go through the nearest path to ground which, if the earth ground is installed properly, should be the point where the electricity comes into the house well before the surge propagates through the house to an appliance that is not earthed.

[vijer]

There is a lot of fog in this thread by people that half-understand the issues involved...

They won't be able to prove it but more than likely she got zapped plugging the charger into a badly wired outlet. Of course the family has to blame it on Apple.

A fair bet that they are after a compensation from a big company - but it will depend on the phone and charger being 100% Apple products. My money is on the charger being a rip-off copy.

I can't see how a "badly wired" outlet in this case would cause a death, if it were a three pin outlet with live-earth reversed, maybe, but then that itself would require that the charger in use had a metal casing which as pointed out by others is unlikely.

Can you tell me how a "badly wired" outlet would cause this death?

If you look closely on your phone chargers you will see a square within a square logo which means the equipment is double insulated. This means there must be two layers of insulation between the pins/wires carrying the mains voltage and where you can touch with your hands.

Oh say they are using the outlet as a junction and have a bunch of wires jammed into it and as often seen the wire ends are hand twisted together and covered with a bit of tape. I rather doubt the charger has anything to do with it other than she had it in her hand when she touched the outlet. I have little doubt a badly wired outlet would cause a shock through the charger.

[sumrit]

And don't forget to switch off your mobile phone if here's lightning nearby (an amusing Isaan myth) :-)

Actually not a myth, I believe the Thai's do this because electrical wiring is generally not grounded in most older homes. So if lighting strikes the power lines and there is a surge it just trashes all the electrical appliances in the house. The Thai's don't know what the real problem is but they do know that unplugging everything during a storm does keep their equipment from getting fried.

Having a true earth in the house won't prevent damage to any electrical appliances in the scenario you've suggested. Firstly the surge in the live cable in the power lines is not connected in any way to the house earth. Secondly the household appliances are damages by the excessive spiked potential (1,000's of volts) in that live wire. That potential will try to find it's own route to earth. ie: from it's connection to the appliance and through it to the ground it's sitting on, and that's how the appliance gets trashed. Having an earth on the appliance in this instance will have no effect whatsoever. True, if a house is earthed the spike will attempt to earth itself though a fuse box and the wall sockets as well but they will not short out that spike, or even reduce it significantly. The appliances will still be damaged.

Much more likely for the surge to go through the nearest path to ground which, if the earth ground is installed properly, should be the point where the electricity comes into the house well before the surge propagates through the house to an appliance that is not earthed.

The power of a lighting strike, which was the scenario I was commenting on, would cause the earth in a junction box at the input to the house to disintegrate immediately, leaving the surge to find it's way to earth via the appliances.

[Cuban]

Apple Responds to Stewardess Death, Tells You How to Spot Genuine Chargers:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Apple-Responds-to-Stewardess-Death-Tells-You-How-to-Spot-Genuine-Chargers-371082.shtml

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/26/iphone_info_apple_charging_electrocution/