The Chiang Mai - Hollywood - Sunset Boulevard - Story

[OldChinaHam]

I took a stroll today around a place in Chiang Mai.

As far as my eye could see, there were big old stately Thai homes with land being sold.

It seemed as if no one really expected to live there much longer, like they were in the process of moving,

Lawn parties of little interest, and owners feeling as if they might be intruders on their own soon to be sold properties.

Newly finished and in-process low-rise apartment buildings were already taking up much of the area.

There were a few old 1000 M2 homes left situated on large plots of land, 4 meter cement block fully surrounding walls, with servants and gardeners lounging in car ports taking in the soaps. And I looked through the gates of one or two. You could see that they once knew what to drive but no longer cared about impressing the neighbors. Their drivers, if they still had any, had parked their antiques out of the rain well maintained, but just sitting there. Obvious they only sat there because I have not seen too many 1965 luxury autos rolling around Chiang Mai lately. Luxury or elite or "prestige auto" is a relative term. I guess 1965 T-birds and 1964 Caddies would qualify, while in Chiang Mai. But it seemed as if, since 1965, very few new cars had been purchased. Or maybe they were just out driving around, and why the old luxury car museums?

It was as if I were back strolling with Norma Desmond, and she just showing me the sights around what was left of the yesteryear mansions. They truly must have been nice, new, and very swish in 1970, but sort of sad and now a bit decrepit and overgrown with vines.

The 1951 film with that famous actress Norma Desmond came to mind. Full of pathos and not quite living in reality.

Sort of hard to explain the feeling, actually. Maybe this will help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bml_CZQDJg0

After my little stroll, I was filled with questions and emotion I felt I needed to come to grips with my turmoil.

This is not a funny topic. I do not find the demise of great stately homes, and a way of life, at all amusing.

What is the reason for the destruction of these homes to build what seems to be rather shoddy, not first class by any means, housing?

Why waste such a wonderful natural setting when it would have been possible to develop some first class low-rise upscale Hollywood style homes on the side of this mountain? Obviously, the rich cats of CM once loved this locale. Instead, just a bunch of Cheap Charlie, M.A.S.H. quality walk-ups that probably will not hold their value.

What about all the Stately Home Owners, and their drivers? Where will they go? And what will they do?

Will they miss this never to be duplicated 1950's charm?

I have many more questions, and if no one minds, I will add them from time to time in the comments gallery in bold, if no one minds, and if I do not get sidetracked thinking up another great and worthy topic.

I gotta tell you though, I would not be exaggerating to impress upon you truthfully that honestly I felt deep pangs of nostalgia and deja vu looking at the home sites around here which drew me back, and caused a tear to well, while thinking about the lives lived here, and the gay times that will never be replayed, to The Main Line outside Philly. Exactly the same, really.

I guess I am just feeling bad for what was, what is, and what never will be again.

Before I leave you to think over what I have laid on you, I just thought you might like to see Norma Desmond's car.

I unfortunately did not see one on my stroll today, just T-Birds and Caddies, but this is what the owners would have had, if they had thought about it, in '65.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRRHYzOpG88

And get out and stroll yourselves,

While the good strolling still lasts,

In Chiang Mai.

Edited July 19, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[Ulysses G.]

[elektrified]

There are a few developments that fit that description.

One is off of the San Kamphaeng Road. I forget the name but almost all the homes are on 2-4 rai lots. The homes are massive 2 story colonial style with huge walls around. It looks as if time has just stood still and nothing has happened since the early 1980's in terms of repairs, maintenance, etc. The servants can be seen sleeping around various parts of the estates. I talked to one group of young Europeans in there who I met that were renting a 6 bedroom, 8 bath home from a woman in Bangkok who had not been to the home in 22 years. They had to spend 100,000 Baht just to make the place livable of course (there were vines growing inside the house) but were only paying 8,000 Baht per month rent. They told me that they were told the development was haunted and that a film crew had been filming in there recently. This was about a year ago. I went there about 3 times and let my dog run. Never could figure out the situation there... I also never saw a vehicle (except mine) enter or exit during the couple of hours time I spent in there.

There is another place similar in Sansai where it seemed every one of the massive homes were vacant or abandoned. About 2 years ago they built something in front of the moobaan and closed off the entrance to it. That too, would be a fabulous place to film, shoot a music video, etc.

Weird...

Edited July 19, 2013 by elektrified

[OldChinaHam]

Electrified: I like your style. I thought no one would reply, but it seems to me that this is a part of Chiang Mai that is both so interesting and also being lost quickly now. I guess I am lucky to have gotten here before these building/homes have been completely torn down.

You captured what it is like to a "T"

Thank you for sharing your thought.

(But of course these places are not "haunted", they are just being gradually/quickly replaced with apartment blocks.)

Edited July 19, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[sfokevin]

There are a few developments that fit that description.

One is off of the San Kamphaeng Road. I forget the name but almost all the homes are on 2-4 rai lots. The homes are massive 2 story colonial style with huge walls around. It looks as if time has just stood still and nothing has happened since the early 1980's in terms of repairs, maintenance, etc. The servants can be seen sleeping around various parts of the estates. I talked to one group of young Europeans in there who I met that were renting a 6 bedroom, 8 bath home from a woman in Bangkok who had not been to the home in 22 years. They had to spend 100,000 Baht just to make the place livable of course (there were vines growing inside the house) but were only paying 8,000 Baht per month rent. They told me that they were told the development was haunted and that a film crew had been filming in there recently. This was about a year ago. I went there about 3 times and let my dog run. Never could figure out the situation there... I also never saw a vehicle (except mine) enter or exit during the couple of hours time I spent in there.

There is another place similar in Sansai where it seemed every one of the massive homes were vacant or abandoned. About 2 years ago they built something in front of the moobaan and closed off the entrance to it. That too, would be a fabulous place to film, shoot a music video, etc.

Weird...

It would be great to have some Google map coordinates of some of these Moobaans to make a nice afternoon ride to check out ;-)

[OldChinaHam]

Am I to take this as your considered opinion, sir?

And, is this your last word on the subject?

Here is why:

While walking in Chiang Mai, I often see these wonderful old houses that I think should actually somehow be preserved. (I can understand that maybe others may not feel this way, and that is OK) It sort of reminds me of the destruction I saw in Beijing, of the HuTong old housing (Yes I know, they did not have running water), but these CM houses are different and they should be preserved. And I also know they will not be preserved.

So it is with some emotion that I see this destruction of something good, for what I consider to be less than what might be built on this land.

Also, it is nice to hear from others who have seen these older (huge for Chiang Mai) homes and comment more about their history, what is happening with them now, and what these areas might look like very soon.

This is just a matter of if you are interested in these old residential areas where the upper crust seemed to live. I very much like looking at these houses, and the architecture, too.

Please comment further

If you have the time

Thanks.

Edited July 19, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[hellodolly]

Did it ever occur to you that those people were growing older and their wants changed or they died. I know for myself I have had it all My own house once a duplex my own car. Now that I have aged a bit I am not interested in those things any more. Occasionally it would be nice to have a car to go sight seeing but that is it.

In this day and age people do not put that much value on the past life styles. Today we live in a disposable era. It is not only stately old mansions being left to run down it is partially built large buildings. There are lots of low income homes just going to nothing now. Times and interests have changed. You are a part of a dying breed.

Consider this in 50 years people will be saying the same thing about a lot of the 2013 modern buildings and way of life. Yes it is interesting to see but not many people want to live that way any more. Also as you said the one owner hasn't seen the place in 22 years. Money is next to meaningless to some they have so much. Perhaps things would be a little different if there was property tax on property.

[highonthai]

And the name/location of the area is?

[OldChinaHam]

Times and interests have changed. You are a part of a dying breed.

Consider this in 50 years people will be saying the same thing about a lot of the 2013 modern buildings and way of life. Yes it is interesting to see but not many people want to live that way any more. Also as you said the one owner hasn't seen the place in 22 years. Money is next to meaningless to some they have so much. Perhaps things would be a little different if there was property tax on property.

I think we are all members of a dying breed, though.

You know, nobody gets out alive;

It's in the breed.

I like the CM houses I saw during my stroll yesterday.

Make me think of very many very little Great Gatsbys

Grosse Pointe

........................and Motown

And although I did not come from MoTown,

And don't come from Chiang Mai's foothills places I saw strolling

Yet I come from places like

With Big Mama and Big Papa

Call me a

But I don't much like it when they wholesale begin breaking up the old Tennessee Williams style plantations.

I agree we should not feel envy or otherwise find fault with the with American Nouveau Riche

way of life.

But CM stately old homes and neighborhoods were not populated with rich fools from America.

These nice old neighborhoods I like and wish we could save.

But we can't

So see them while you can, is the word to the wise, if you like that sort of thing.

Edited July 20, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[OldChinaHam]

And the name/location of the area is?

Up around the mountain west of the end of the runway near CMU

Beautiful

[elektrified]

There are a few developments that fit that description.

One is off of the San Kamphaeng Road. I forget the name but almost all the homes are on 2-4 rai lots. The homes are massive 2 story colonial style with huge walls around. It looks as if time has just stood still and nothing has happened since the early 1980's in terms of repairs, maintenance, etc. The servants can be seen sleeping around various parts of the estates. I talked to one group of young Europeans in there who I met that were renting a 6 bedroom, 8 bath home from a woman in Bangkok who had not been to the home in 22 years. They had to spend 100,000 Baht just to make the place livable of course (there were vines growing inside the house) but were only paying 8,000 Baht per month rent. They told me that they were told the development was haunted and that a film crew had been filming in there recently. This was about a year ago. I went there about 3 times and let my dog run. Never could figure out the situation there... I also never saw a vehicle (except mine) enter or exit during the couple of hours time I spent in there.

There is another place similar in Sansai where it seemed every one of the massive homes were vacant or abandoned. About 2 years ago they built something in front of the moobaan and closed off the entrance to it. That too, would be a fabulous place to film, shoot a music video, etc.

Weird...

It would be great to have some Google map coordinates of some of these Moobaans to make a nice afternoon ride to check out ;-)

You can't get inside the vacant moobaan in Sansai anymore. They have built an industrial building in front and blocked access to it. The g/f asked the security guard one time what happened to the moobaan and he told her that it is still there but soon every house will be demolished for future development. He said the company that owned it blocked access to it because they were having a huge problem with teenagers and "motorcycle gangs" going in there at night in large numbers to sell and smoke crack.

I'll catch the name of the development in San Kamphaeng next time I go down that way and post it. It's quite interesting. I don't have GPS, sorry.

[hml367]

Going on the road through Mae Jo and continuing past Royal Chiang Mai Golf Course. A short way before reaching the turnoff to the waterfall, Bua Tong, and on the opposite side, there is an older subdivision that is quite large and in my opinion would have been nice if it had ever filled up. The lots seemed large enough and lots of trees. Very few houses were ever built as of the last time I was in there. Not as grand as the pictures posted, wherever they are from, but it seemed nice when I drove through.

Maybe the pictures should be made smaller OCH? I'm running out of screen.

Edited July 20, 2013 by hml367

[OldChinaHam]

Going on the road through Mae Jo and continuing past Royal Chiang Mai Golf Course. A short way before reaching the turnoff to the waterfall, Bua Tong, and on the opposite side, there is an older subdivision that is quite large and in my opinion would have been nice if it had ever filled up. The lots seemed large enough and lots of trees. Very few houses were ever built as of the last time I was in there. Not as grand as the pictures posted, wherever they are from, but it seemed nice when I drove through.

Maybe the pictures should be made smaller OCH? I'm running out of screen.

1. Yes, you are right about the size of the pictures, I definitely should have made them smaller, with a link to any larger file sizes. I had much trouble posting any, because they seemed to be rejected and not allowed, the first time. So I spent about a half hour trying to find out which image was the offending copyrighted image, what a nightmare. And by the time I finished, this is the unfortunate conglomeration I ended up with.

2. The photos of the larger leafy environment homes, similar to the CM large and "woodsy" homes, are from USA, Pennsylvania, where I grew up. These old homes are for the most part all being preserved because, unlike Chiang Mai I presume, people there want to save these neighborhoods, and some of the charm and culture that goes with this architecture.

Also, there is one image from Grosse Pointe which is where all the Execs lived who worked at the Auto Companies like GM and Ford. If I am not mistaken, some of the larger places are selling for a song, compared to what they cost to build. But I am not aware that many are being demolished wholesale, even though we all know what has happened to Detroit recently, just chaos foreclosures and vacant building all over. Still, these big homes are being bought and restored, I think.

3. The large homes you mention in your comment, are these the older homes which were built before about 20 or 30 years ago? Because it is these that I think are most fascinating, where you can see the old roads that go between them and the fairly old growth trees and land.

4. The reason I so much like to live close by, is because of these nice old homes.

5. The new GIANT houses that the new rich are building in America seem just the opposite of what I like about the big CM homes. The US monstrosities are ostentatious for its own sake, and very "in your face".

The CM homes are not like this, and are also not that big. They were just built by people who had money but did not want to shout about it.

Edited July 20, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[hml367]

The houses weren't what I was referring to as big.... the lots were larger than many subdivisions around Chiang Mai city. There could have also been some large houses, I did not make it through the whole subdivision.

I don't know how old the houses are/were... but they would be quite old now.

Guidelines for photos are posted by Tywais in the front page of the forums... I forget the name of the thread. It's not hard to find. Then again, there is a lot going on, apparently, with ThaiVisa right now so they guidelines may not be a problem.

I will try to find the coordinates of that subdivision (if I remember...we are going out in a bit) and put them on here.

Edit... not sure of the coordinates. Google Maps has it.. Search for Misty Hills, Chiang Mai. I think that is it.

Edited July 20, 2013 by hml367

[Saan]

Me Old China

Is this below the sort of place you are looking for.

Closer to home is Hinlay Indian restaurant set in the large gardens of a lovely old house. Great setting, good food.

For sale: Liberace's old mansion, a shadow of itself The pianist Liberace's grand former home in Las Vegas is on sale for just £350,000.

Liberace: his mansion in Las Vegas was once testament to his taste for opulence Photo: ITV/ Rex Features

By Ed Cumming

10:40AM BST 17 Jul 2013

1 Comment

Liberace is enjoying something of a renaissance. After decades in the proverbial wilderness, when he seemed like a sequin-clad relic of a past era, the pianist is experiencing a surge in popularity. Mostly this is thanks to the acclaimed film Behind the Candelabra, starring Michael Douglas, which shows the glitzy surfaces of his life as well as its more tarnished undersides. Rather than a peculiar anachronism, Liberace now seems like an archetype for the modern celebrity entertainer: mad, bad and fabulous.

In real life, however, the adornments of Liberace's career are fading. His mansion in Las Vegas was once testament to his taste for opulence. Now it is sadly dilapidated, on the market for $529,000 (£354,000), cash only, having been foreclosed by the bank JP Morgan Chase. This is $3 million less than its peak during the property boom.

Built in the Sixties, the two-bedroom (although the agent claims there could be plenty more), 10-bathroom building is a tribute to a lost era. A mirror-lined hallway is said to feature 2,000-year-old pillars from Greece. The taps on the whirlpool bath are shaped like swans. On the ceiling of one of the rooms is a reproduction of Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel artwork. Five fireplaces remain, alongside exposed wiring and flaking paint. The property is in need of some industrial-strength care and attention (and perhaps a more conservative interior designer).

^{Fallen into ruin: the front of Liberace's Las Vegas pad}

[OldChinaHam]

Saan "Built in the Sixties, the two-bedroom (although the agent claims there could be plenty more), 10-bathroom building is a tribute to a lost era. A mirror-lined hallway is said to feature 2,000-year-old pillars from Greece. The taps on the whirlpool bath are shaped like swans. On the ceiling of one of the rooms is a reproduction of Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel artwork. Five fireplaces remain, alongside exposed wiring and flaking paint. The property is in need of some industrial-strength care and attention (and perhaps a more conservative interior designer)."

Not "looking for"

Looking out for so as to avoid, actually

Right, Liberace could play pretty well and we used to watch out and avoid him also when he appeared on television, must have been Lawrence Welk or some similar program.

You cannot see much of the architecture, but if it is in Las Vegas, then the whole town is pretty much worthless, and of course please keep in mind that the town was designed and built by American Gangsters, and that nothing was built there at all, just a few short years ago.

Nothing I would want to own or see in Las Vegas, and the homes in CM are far different from anything showy or opulent (one P in opulent, my friend).

Much different from where I grew up, also, which is why I posted this Topic, is that walking by these houses makes one feel nostalgia for a different way of life than the New Chiang Mai.

But now, anything about Liberace you can freely enjoy yourself if you like.

Just don't think to include me.

And by the way, I see Dave2 here, and wonder if he might take some photos of these old houses and post them.

The houses are good to photograph, but I do not have a camera, and even my cell phone does not have a camera, or I would post a few.

Edited July 20, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[Saan]

My reply was not meant to be serious Old China, just passing on a curiosity - 2 bedrooms and 10 bathrooms. Now that must be an anal fetish.

But my reference to Hinlay was serious. You should have a look.

[hellodolly]

Going on the road through Mae Jo and continuing past Royal Chiang Mai Golf Course. A short way before reaching the turnoff to the waterfall, Bua Tong, and on the opposite side, there is an older subdivision that is quite large and in my opinion would have been nice if it had ever filled up. The lots seemed large enough and lots of trees. Very few houses were ever built as of the last time I was in there. Not as grand as the pictures posted, wherever they are from, but it seemed nice when I drove through.

Maybe the pictures should be made smaller OCH? I'm running out of screen.

That is a problem with Thai Visa they allow pictures of that size.

They soon make you lose interest in the article.

They might some day consider blocking those pictures.

Or automatically reducing them in size.

This thread is a no go with me now. Posters can always use the enter bar

to get the message in with out sliding the bar back and forth.

Edit

Posters like me might remember to check the spell check first

Edited July 20, 2013 by hellodolly